Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: When you go to school and you get your degree in something like production or film or any art, it is really, it is a little bit soul crushing to graduate and you're not working a job in that field. But I think most importantly, as long as you're able to support yourself and then you have creative energy to actually work on things that are contributing towards your ultimate creative goals, I think that for me personally is a much healthier situation than using all your creative energy at a job that you don't even really enjoy.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: Welcome to the 5050 podcast, where we've made it our mission to nurture and empower the next generation of industry talent. Through this podcast, we expand the reach of the 5050 film festival by giving an exclusive peek behind the cur into the creative and business sides of the entertainment industry. We sit down with folks from all corners of the biz garnering educational insight into process, production and execution. That was the voice of Gabby Fisman, who we absolutely grilled this week about what it's like to start your own production company from the ground up. This is one you don't want to miss, peeps. Thanks for listening.
What is. What's the band's name? Can we. Can we give it a little plug?
[00:01:31] Speaker A: Yes, please. It's called Groceries with an exclamation mark.
[00:01:35] Speaker C: Cool.
[00:01:36] Speaker B: Love that.
[00:01:37] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: So fun.
[00:01:38] Speaker C: One one Trip.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: We're calling it Post Sleaze. So indie sleaze wasn't a real genre, but we're like now it's like a retroactive kind of fake genre, but it's basically the encapsulating of that 2000s, like classic indie rock that was just really fun.
Like Modest Mouse, Broken Social Scene.
There's probably. I'm blanking right now, but like bringing back that energy now, is there?
[00:02:08] Speaker C: Because I know, I know you obviously did production at USC and you are very production focused.
Do you find a lot of crossover in your band's voice with your own kind of like director voice or writer producer voice?
[00:02:26] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. That's been something that's been super interesting to learn about.
And especially the last year with the production company. Marie and I have odd one out films. We.
I've really been wanting to get into music videos, into producing and then hopefully directing more music videos. And there's like such a crossover with. I mean, with having a band, it's kind of like creative direction and, you know, scheduling everything is.
I think it's been really helpful coming from like a production background to apply that to. To the band into creating a vision And a schedule and executing it. Because I do think that's probably what. From what I've heard, a lot of bands struggle to. To keep everything organized. And it is kind of like a business. I think once you. If you really want to start branching out and having success, especially if you want maybe an investment from, like, a label or, you know, anything. Kind of proof that you have everything together and organized and that you can be trusted with money and resources.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: Interesting.
There's parallels between that and running a production company, obviously, as well. I'm curious, like, what is. What is the nitty gritty of that? What. I mean, what are some things you've learned with, you know, treating yourself as an artist, like a business?
[00:03:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I think. I think the most important thing is, I think first and foremost, when you're running a company or you're working with people, I think number one is you have to be easy to work with. And I think creating a really positive.
I say loving, warm environment. I think that's like the number one thing, at least for me, in my perspective. I used to. I would call it compassionate producing, which I think works for directing as well. You're. You're empathetic to all the departments, all your collaborators, no matter what art you're doing, and being receptive to ideas and to. And to their visions because you're all working on this together. That's like the first and foremost emphasis for me. And then beyond that, I think, and this is something that I've been learning with every project and getting better at, is you always think you're organized, and then you realize you forgot something.
There's so many. Especially when you're doing legal. Legal things with, like, an LLC with an entity, and you're paying people through payroll, or you're paying freelancers, or you're getting releases.
And the more you grow and, like, you start working with labels and with other entities, business entities, the more you realize, okay, I have to really pay attention to the nitty gritty. I can't forget this signature. I can't mess up this tax document.
And I think it's kind of. For me, the ultimate goal is keeping that ethos, like I mentioned, of compassionate. I'll say compassionate leadership and combining that with this very organized structural professional practice.
So, yeah, trying to make sure people are paid efficiently and quickly, you know, just. Yeah, basically, I think. I think overall that's.
That's what I've learned the most, is just to. Yeah. Keep everything organized. Always write things down. Because I think every project we think we we always say, oh, we learned this from the last one. And then a new thing comes up. Or we're like, oh, wait, actually, this one thing we thought we had figured out. Actually, it's not figured out. We have to think about it differently.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: It's. It's. I. Some advice that I've gotten is try to not make the same mistake twice. You know, like, it's fine to make a mistake, but if, you know, you. You have to be that. That's like, equally as important as doing the thing in the beginning. You have to be really cognizant of. Of what went wrong and how to fix that the next time, you know?
[00:06:30] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:06:31] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, Gabby, first of all, welcome to the podcast.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: We got into it.
[00:06:36] Speaker C: What an awesome way to get into it. Just kind of throwing you right in there. Thanks for. For joining us in the deep end.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: I will say you came recommended very highly from Maria and we.
It's our goal with this podcast to. After each conversation, you know, people will. Are willingly like, want to. Wanting to, oh, I have this friend who you should talk to, you know. And like, Maria was definitely one of the first people who gave us a recommendation, which was super nice because we want to sort of create this 5050 community. And it's great to hear. You've been involved in the festival and everything. And a film like Happy, Happy, Happy Birthday is the perfect 5050 film because it does create community as. As its own thing, you know.
So, yeah, we really appreciate, you know, all the work you've put into that, and we want to hear more about Odd One out too, because Maria was telling us about all the insane amounts of work you guys have already put into just establishing it as a company. You know, it's. It's harder than you think to make a production company. So we really want to get into that too. But yeah, thank you. Thank you for coming on the podcast.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: Of course. I'm honored to be here talking to you guys.
[00:07:47] Speaker C: Could we. Could we do like a. Almost like a How to make a production company 101 kind of thing? Can we try to do that?
[00:07:55] Speaker A: Sure, I think I can. I can give a timeline and then I think, okay, so the origin. Basically, Marie and I work together on. At USC on our 480, which for people who don't know, is the advanced.
It's kind of like a thesis project for the undergrad production students. But they. Technically, it's not a thesis. It's called an advanced project. I don't the distinction is a little bit confused, confusing, but basically we ended up being producers on the same project called Cabbage, which is an amazing horror short directed by actually my roommate, one of our best friends, Destiny McCaster. I'll plug it. It's on alter.
But basically we had such a great experience working together on that project and that was the first time we were like really working together in anything really important.
And we knew from that project, not only from the relationship we formed with each other as people and as collaborators, but also the team we were able to construct together like all of the crew.
So many of them are like worked on Happy Happy Birthday and our best friends that we constantly work with now. So that I think proved that we have something special in our creative collaboration. And then I was very fortunate to graduate. I graduated a semester early from USC with a full time job at a production company which was very rare.
And that was like December 2022.
And after spending, I worked there for about a year around, around that time and I realized that it was going to be really hard for me to be able to pursue my own creative ambitions and goals while putting 100% of my energy towards another, another company.
And I, I realized ultimately that I think for me to be able to pursue what I want in this field, I had to start something myself. And during that time I had was talking to Maria and we, she also, we felt similarly about our goals and again thought about how great it was working together on this one project. And we decided that we would want to start this production company.
And basically what that entailed was we would basically we had this really, really cute routine where we would go to the gym and work out together and then we would just have coffee after with our laptops and just basically create like a business plan vision board of what we wanted to do with the company, which meant thinking of the name, figuring out the logo, all of these kind of branding things that I think things that people would think about as the first start of a company. And then of course then comes the, the startup cost which is paying for your llc.
We're a partnership llc. There's a few different types of categorizations of like business entities. And I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on these things. I'm. We're still like the worst at taxes. That's been a thing that I think I will, I'll probably talk about taxes a little bit more unfortunately because I think that's a really important thing not to overlook.
But yeah, I think once we, once we figured out kind of all the fun creative stuff Came the side where we set up the entity. We were 50, 50 in the partnership.
And then we kind of. The next thing we did after registering the LLC was kind of creating like a Google Drive where we created like templates for basic documents, need for production, like talent releases, deal memos, like production agreement. And then kind of deciding, this is how we're going to label our project numbers, this is how we're going to organize our projects. And then we discussed, okay, how are we going to accept projects? How are we going to decide what we think is fair to get paid for projects? When are we going to get paid versus not getting paid for a friend's project? And when, you know, basically all of these. All of these things we had to get on the same page about.
And I think once all of that was discussed and figured out is when we started working on projects officially through Odd one Out, basically.
[00:12:34] Speaker C: What was that? Was that three months? Was it a year? Was it three days?
[00:12:38] Speaker A: Like, I think it was? If I recall, this is where my memory gets hazy, but I think it was summer of 2023.
We started discussing what it would mean to have a production company.
[00:12:50] Speaker C: So going from vision board to, okay, we're ready to start doing outreach or.
[00:12:56] Speaker A: Yeah, it was 2023. We. We started talking about, yeah, it was the beginning. And then I think we registered our LLC at the end of 2024. And then there was a project that I had directed, a music video I had directed that Maria had produced that we were kind of finishing up edit and color for, and we decided to release that under the Odd One out banner. And so we launched Odd One out in early 2024. And I think our first official project was released. That music video was released in March of 2024. And then from then on, we basically, we just started doing a bunch of projects.
[00:13:37] Speaker C: Was the plan when you guys were thinking about the business plan and the vision board and just kind of, you know, oh, maybe this. Ooh, maybe that. Like that kind of stage of ideation and creation. Was it like, this is going to be a vehicle for Gabby and Maria to make our own stuff? Or was this like, let's get paid by finding collaborators that we want to work with and kind of help them.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: And supporting their work? Yeah, yeah.
[00:14:10] Speaker C: Or is it both?
[00:14:11] Speaker A: It's. It's 100 both. So I think both Marie and I have very similar goals. We both love writing and directing, but something, like I said, working together as producers, producing is something that's very rewarding because we. You get to work, you get to bring other people's visions to life.
And we know so many talented people and we are really inspired by helping produce and bring other stories to life. And I think producing is an opportunity to work on a lot more projects from a creative, from a creative standpoint as well, and giving creative feedback. I think that's something we both, we're not just in an ideal world, projects we're working on, we're also creative producing. We're not just.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: Yeah, the development process is really important.
[00:14:59] Speaker A: Yes. I mean sometimes. And we're, we're, you know, of course on like a, on the short turnaround, you know, certain projects we're getting hired for, we're obviously operating sometimes more as line producers and you know, we have, you know, working with labels and stuff. You might have less feedback creatively. But I think the most important thing is for us is like creating, working on projects that have something special to them. They're standing out. And this, this goes back to our name. We just really want to work on projects that are the odd one out or stand out in some way that are separating themselves from their, their peers, from their field of, of other, you know, projects or ideas in the similar genre. We want, we want to be able to, to create things that are unique and you know, blend genres and just have something special that, you know, you might remember.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: I love that it's so important when running a production company to keep that so even if it's just your way into a project, but to really keep that sort of like thematic significance or for lack of a better term, like throughout, you know, your decision to either write and direct a project or you know, hop onto a project at various stages.
I want to go back to timeline for a second just because you mentioned that, you know, starting summer 2023, you had kind of created the company and you were working on your first projects. Were you still working a full time job at that point in that summer or. I want to get into. Because I think about this a ton and we have a lot of listeners who are, you know, graduating college and, and craving stability, you know, sometimes above like creative freedom, you know, just for so many different reasons. So I'm curious, you know what I think it's so subjective. Everybody has a different path. Right. But I think it's interesting to hear from different people, like what was that decision to leave that established production company and go out on your own? And I'm sure it wasn't an easy one. It never is an easy one. So I'm curious what sort of prompted that and what were some, you know, if it was difficult for you?
[00:17:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean definitely. Something to know about me is I always overpack my schedule.
I'm cons. I always, I do it to myself ever since like I took 18 units like basically all of USC while oftentimes having like a part time job and having sometimes an internship.
So I always did this to myself and so I like to keep myself busy. But I kind of know, I think everyone knows the limits of their, you know, of what they can handle and I, I recommend people to, to keep themselves within those limits for the most, you know, for the majority of the time so you don't burn out.
But basically yeah, for, for context I think. Yeah. Summer of 2023, another thing that was going on and I'll. I can probably get into this later. I was, I co wrote and co directed a short film called Holy Smokes that was. We shot in summer 2023. And I was working full time at the, at the production company at the time.
So that was very challenging. And I think that was also probably a big catalyst as to why I was like man, it would be really nice if I had more energy to focus on projects that I'm really you know, want to make and I'm inspired by.
But yeah, I think, I think break giving yourself a timeline.
Let's say you're working full time. Giving yourself a timeline. Let's say I'm going to give myself three months to hit all of these check marks, these bullet points towards my goal so that you're kind of spacing out your workload a little bit and you know, not overexerting yourself while you're also working another job. Because I think if you're working, if you're working another job you should still be know you don't want that job to lose attention from you. You want to do best.
[00:19:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: And then kind of just setting yourself up for success with realistic goals but and basically trying not to procrastinate is probably kind of the best way to summarize. I know that's like very tough for a lot of creative people. Everyone's been there. But I think it is really important to set yourself deadlines and really stick to them because and tell yourself you're making your life easier in the long run.
And I think for me I so personally when I, I, I don't have the means to not, you know, to not work and just full send into freelance.
[00:19:41] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:42] Speaker A: So I did have a period of a couple months where I was when I Left that job where I was trying to figure out what I was going to do if I was going to jump into another because at the time there was no guaranteed income from, from odd one out. Um, so I was thinking, should I go into another, try to get another full time or even part time film job? Um, I mean part time film jobs are kind of hard to find oftentimes when you're applying. So that was tough. I applied to a few places and then ultimately I decided that I was gonna work part time at, I just needed a job. I was like, I'm gonna work part time anywhere, somewhere like hopefully chill.
I ended up working part time at a restaurant that I really liked. Yeah, and basically I'm very lucky. I have pretty affordable rent.
So I know I would recommend trying to find affordable rent to people graduating. I know that's really tough in this economy.
But basically I just worked like 25 to 30 hours a week and it covered my basic expense, like all the expenses that I have. And then all of the rest of my free time I was working on mostly unpaid projects for odd one out. And I will say, I mean I, I, I think there's a trade off, you know, when you're working, I think it's important, I think to find a job that doesn't take your creative energy. I think for me that that works really well. And now I'm actually working part time at a coffee shop. I changed it up a bit and I find that right now I'm the most balanced I've ever been because my, my day job brings me no stress at all.
[00:21:22] Speaker B: That is so great. I'm sure. Cop. Is coffee shop more chill than restaurant just generally, would you say?
[00:21:29] Speaker A: Yeah, okay, yeah, I would. Highly. I mean, I think that, I know I get, when you go to, when you go to school and you get your degree in something like production or film or any art, it is really, it is a little bit soul crushing to graduate and you're not working a job in that field. But I think most importantly, as long as you're, you're able to support yourself and then you have creative energy to actually work on things that are, are contributing towards your ultimate creative goals. I think that for me personally is a much healthier situation than using all your creative energy at a job that you don't even really enjoy for, you know, for some people or for a job that maybe isn't bringing you, you know, or satisfying your creative ambitions.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: Was it worth it for you to work at that production company full time then or do you kind of wish you did it differently. Okay.
[00:22:29] Speaker A: No, I mean, I think I, I'm super thankful for.
[00:22:32] Speaker B: Just experience wise, it's, it's helpful.
[00:22:34] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I think, I think that, no, I think that no matter what, I probably would have. Whatever job I had at the time, I probably would have wanted to ultimately leave to do what I'm doing now to start my own company.
So I do think that if you have the opportunity to work somewhere, you should, I'm not saying you shouldn't take it. I think, I think everyone kind of knows you. You know, I think if you take a moment and like think and look inwards and are very introspective, I think you kind of know when, when it's time to move on.
[00:23:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:12] Speaker A: For anything.
[00:23:13] Speaker B: Yeah. What I'll say is that I, I relate to you very much. I as well was in college doing the maximum of, of everything. I was, I had two jobs, an internship, as many classes as I could take, and trying to like, whatever, do creative stuff outside of class. And I think when you're doing that, I'm, I'm asking these questions because when you're doing that, it is very hard to take a step back and like, look, as you said, look inward or as I say, like, look what, what's the 30,000 foot, foot sort of like perspective on? Okay, what are the pieces to the pie right now? And am I really like, as you said, like make those goals? Like, what do I really want to do if I want to start my own production company? It's what are the steps towards that? I'm not going to quit my job right away because then I have no income and I have, you know, I have no plan. It's about taking those steps and being able to reflect maybe while you still have that job, being like, okay, I have these sort of goals, when I hit these benchmarks, then I can allow myself to like commit to this full time. And spending creative energy is really, really tough. You only have so much of it and, and it's hard to be in a situation where you are spending your creative energy on stuff that you don't necessarily fully believe in or it's not exactly what you want to be doing. So I, I definitely relate to that. So I just think it's an interesting conversation.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: I think I really do believe your intuition will kind, can kind of lead you. You just have to listen to it and you have to be, you have to tell yourself that you know, you know what's best for you. And I think people oftentimes want to like, turn that, that off.
[00:24:53] Speaker B: It's helpful to turn it off sometimes.
[00:24:55] Speaker A: You know, it is helpful, but I think ultimately you need to, to listen to that. That's in the back of your head telling you, you know, it's, it's something's off or it's time to try something new.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: Totally.
[00:25:09] Speaker C: So was your intuition saying free projects good?
[00:25:15] Speaker A: My intuition said I trust the process. And I, I, I really felt that.
I mean, I think that's another thing about a product having a production company.
It is this like weird paradox where it's like you, in order to start getting paid jobs, you need to do a lot of work for free.
I think, unfortunately, I mean, not always. I think there's obviously exceptions to that. But we, you know, even though we had, we both, like, I had projects under my belt and Maria did, we still need to build a portfolio together under like the production company banner. And that's what we told ourselves timeline wise.
[00:25:57] Speaker C: We've been saying summer 23 a lot, but like, where you said how to accept projects, kind of figuring out rates, etc. And then like figuring out what would be free and what would not be. So like on the timeline. So at this point you have the vision board, which I assume you're looking at other production companies and their work.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Yeah, we, we definitely looked at other companies that we looked up to or we found were being successful and we kind of saw what type of projects they had, like some of their branding stuff.
And I mean, I would say mostly though, we, we were just sticking to, we tried to not compare too much. I would say I think we trusted our, our vision and yeah, I think time, timeline wise, 2024, we worked on, I think like five shorts, I, I four or five shorts. A bunch of shorts and a music video. And we, we knew like, we had a bunch of, of friends that we went to USC with that were extremely talented and we wanted to bring their, their shorts to life. And it was like, you know, they get the benefit of us helping produce everything and then, but we get the benefit of having this, this project we believe in at the end on our portfolio. It's kind of a mutually beneficial experience for everyone and you get to work with your friends in the process.
[00:27:27] Speaker C: Was, was there a list of these filmmakers at any point or like potential brands you want to work with down the line or like musicians you want to make music videos for with, like, did you guys have that almost like dream board? Like, was that on the vision board too?
[00:27:42] Speaker A: Yeah, we definitely have, we definitely Had a list of, you know, projects that we really wanted to work on that we heard, you know, people, our friends discussing. And also, especially for. I mean, I'm really, really into music. So I have a list of. Unfortunately, my list of dream artists, like, they. They're probably don't have very many.
Oh, very much budget for music videos, unfortunately.
But yeah, we had like a dream. We. We've had lists of artists we wanted to work with and brands, and that's something we're at. Like, this year we've been working on more music videos and I think ultimately our goal is to get into commercial as well. And we have discussed, like I said, brands that we'd want to work with and have ideas for.
[00:28:31] Speaker C: So is it common practice to.
Okay, we're a young production company. This year the slate is gonna be very short film heavy, or it's gonna be very music video heavy, or it's gonna be very commercial heavy. Instead of like, we're gonna do everything like, what is. Were you guys set out setting out a very intentional of like, our slate is gonna be very short film heavy. And then we're gonna jump to music videos this year. And then like you just said, commercials. Yeah, the following. Whenever that's gonna be.
[00:29:03] Speaker A: But I think. I think my. From our experience and you know, like I said, this might be different for everyone. I think it's. It's narrative work, I think is the most rewarding, but it's also the most challenging because you're working with. I mean, unless you're booking, like, unless you're working on a huge feature and you have a huge budget, you're working with, you know, a lot of hours of work and days, months of.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: And you're probably not making as much money as the other categories.
[00:29:31] Speaker A: Exactly. Um, but I think for us, we were kind of viewing it as we have access. We can start making shorts right now.
And I mean, music videos. We can start making music videos for bands we know or smaller. Like, because it's. It's pretty easy. You can make, you know, you can make a music video just with two people and you can. With no budget, you can make something cool. So we thought, okay, we're going to do these things that we have the ability in our means to do and then expand to maybe bigger artists with bigger budget music videos and then ultimately get into commercials so that we can maybe start coming up, start being able to bring some income in, but also kind of keep the ethos of creating unique concepts for both music videos or commercials. You know, when we're able to. But ultimately, I think that growth for us was viewed as like, okay, the more we're working with budgets, the more we're able to support ourselves through this company. And once we're able to fully be freelance full time with the company, then it kind of opens up the ability to maybe work on more narrative projects with bigger budgets. And ultimately, I think our goal is just to tell stories in no matter what format, whether it is narrative, whether. Whether it's music videos or commercials. But ultimately, I think our favorite thing to work on is narrative. But like I said, I think you can tell a narrative story in any format. And I think that's what draws us to doing other things as well.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Through starting to book more projects, whether it be with brands or music videos or narrative, as you mentioned, what have you learned about partnership? Because I'm curious. You know, you work very closely with Maria. I'm sure you're talking to her every day about the future of the company and what you're currently doing and your slate and everything.
[00:31:36] Speaker C: What.
[00:31:36] Speaker B: What advice would you have for people on starting a company with their friend? You know, what. What does that look like? And specifically getting into, like, what projects to decide on, how to be a selfless leader as well as a partner, you know, things like that. I'm. I'm definitely curious what you've learned throughout the process.
[00:31:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I think. I think the most important thing is, I think if you're going to jump into such an intense partnership with someone where there's, like, money and legal issues potentially at stake, I think you have to be on this, know that you're on the same page as them.
I think the reason that we are able to work so well together is because we kind of have. We. We work in a very similar way.
I think that's important. And we understand that we understand each other in that way, which is a very special. It creates a very special, like, working relationship. And I think that's. I think that first and foremost, like, that method of working either needs to be the same or compatible. So that way, I think. Cause if it's not, I. You know, I could see in some situations, business getting in the way of, like, a friendship. Whereas I think in our case, it's made our friendship stronger because. And I think the more I've learned, the more we've worked together through multiple projects, the more we learn what our individual strengths are and we're able to kind of.
We're able to kind of delegate easy, more easily, and, you know, trust each Other, you know, that one of us is gonna do this thing and one of us will focus on the other task.
But I think the most important thing with creative collaboration, especially in a business sense, I think, is just understanding each other. That's, I think, truly. And with that comes open communication. And I think for me as a producer or director, and even with my friendships and all my relationships, I think being upfront about communication and just. Yeah, any, anytime you have, you know, something comes to your mind, something that's bothering you, something that you want improved, something that you just, you know, are thinking about, if it's taking up space in your mind, you should communicate that to the other person. And I, I, I think this is really important for like department heads and crew as well, because I always tell people, like, come, come to us with issues. Come to me with a pro. If you're feeling not heard or anything, like, don't be scared to bring it up because when people start keeping those things to themselves, that's when tensions, you know, tensions flare. People become resentful. And I think that's what ultimately can, you know, destroy some, like creative collaborations.
[00:34:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:29] Speaker A: Or the last thing I want.
[00:34:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Or make a project worse, you know, like, it could be as simple as that. Like, it, it's, if ideas are not being communicated in the right way or it makes like an artist confused, you know, when two producers are telling them different things, or a gaffer confused about what they're getting paid or whatever it is, you know, like, it's, it's a really important thing. I mean.
Yeah, I'm curious, like, how, how do specifically you guys balance each other out? Are there strengths that you could let us know about that maybe you don't have that Maria is able to, you know, take the reins on or, or vice versa?
[00:35:06] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I think some. So a big thing is on most projects recently I've been kind of focusing. I, I'll, I'll talk about it more in like a, It's, I would say it's less of a personality thing because I think there's, I think we're very, this is what I meant. Like, we're very similar in how we approach communication and, and how we lead.
So I think that we're pretty similar on. But for example, I focus more on casting and legal things.
So I often will peruse or edit contracts, make sure agreements.
[00:35:40] Speaker B: The fun stuff.
[00:35:42] Speaker A: Yeah, the fun stuff. Casting, which is sometimes I really wish I didn't have to do.
But everyone on, all the actors of LA probably think I'm A casting director with how many casting calls I've posted on. On all the casting services. But yeah, and then we're. Maria's really, really good at scheduling and. And we're I think we're both really. I think something we're really proud of is we're both really good at creative ways to lower budgets and to make things work. We're always like coming up with. We're always like, it's the name of the game.
[00:36:20] Speaker B: Definitely.
[00:36:21] Speaker A: Yeah. We'll have these little. We'll have like a huge problem, we realize a logistical nightmare, like a budget nightmare. And then we'll have these, like, we'll. We'll sit together and then we'll just like scribble on paper and write like these crazy ideas and we're like, like, if you looked at these documents or these papers, like, no one would have any clue what they mean because it looks so chaotic and organ disorganized.
[00:36:42] Speaker B: But you guys know what it means.
[00:36:44] Speaker A: We know what it means. And then we'll like, we'll take that and then obviously communicate it in a clear, understandable way.
Um, but yeah, like. And I think, I think she's really good at, you know, communicating with. With client. I mean, I, I also do that. I just feel like recently I've. I'm like, oh my God, she's been sending these emails and I was, I was like, oh my God, look at. She's so professional.
But yeah, I'm. I feel like I'm probably. There's so many other things.
[00:37:15] Speaker B: Yeah. But I think what I'm getting from you is that it's not about necessarily actual strengths or you're better than her at X or vice versa. It's about you guys both be.
Are great, are great communicators and capable of doing every task. But it's like a time thing, you know, it's about where. Where you've decided to put your resources and then you know where she is and making sure that you're. There's open communication there. So that's. That's very interesting.
[00:37:42] Speaker A: I think, I think just knowing where to pick up each other's slack, like, totally. I think it's like there's a week where maybe I'm. I'm out of commission. Like I was super sick.
Like the week before a big shoot we had and she had to pick up like a lot of slack. And there might be. There's been situation where it's been vice versa where I have to really focus on this, like, really annoying task that takes up so much time. But it's like, I, I'll take care of that. Like, she doesn't have to worry about. Or, you know, if she misses an email, I'll. I'll send it. Or we'll text each other like, oh, making sure you did this. And just, I think, like I said, it's really, it really all comes down to communication.
[00:38:19] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:38:20] Speaker C: I think there's, there's something to sitting down with a partner, collaborator and being like, what do you enjoy? Like, what excites you about the process? You know, and like, just innately that will lead to better collaboration because both parties will be. Probably be happy unless you both like the exact same stuff. And that's a different conversation. But, like, you figure it out in the way of like, yeah, okay, your spares are here. My strengths are there. But like, also, I really like casting and I really like the nitty gritty of contracts and like, kind of figuring this out. And you love this side of things. Like, how cool is that? Like, we both get to do that. And now, wow, we're happy doing this work because I actually enjoy this. You know, can you walk us through like a music video, the pipeline, talking about partnership and like, who does it come to? Do you guys sit down and say, okay, here's a pool of projects that we've gotten because we're at that level now. Or it's like, let's send emails out to all these brands we want to work with or this musician that they have an album coming out. We want to make a music video. Like, talk about, I guess the pipeline from getting the project to then like, I guess, production execution, you know.
[00:39:41] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.
Okay. So I, first and foremost, you have to get, you know, book the job. And that can come from. I say, in our case, a lot of our projects have come from people coming to us through like a recommendation, probably because we're able to work with pretty low budgets, make, you know, make things that look higher budget.
So we've. And so that's usually how a lot of our projects have come to us so far.
And so, for example, we get the.
Usually the first step, though, is like approving the budget.
So we usually get told, okay, this is the budget that the artists or like the. A lot of times with the projects we worked on recently, it's been like the artists actually self investing.
[00:40:36] Speaker C: Can we go even before this, though, just to kind of lay the foundation here? So you're saying that who reaches out to who, what we're even here about the, like, literally from Ground zero.
[00:40:50] Speaker A: Yeah. So in our case, we.
We had. We booked a couple music videos for an artist through Maria had worked with another producer who's much more senior.
And I think this project was.
They weren't available or they wanted to pass it on. And because she had a good experience working with Maria, recommended. Recommended Odd One out films.
And then we. So in that case, we got introduced to like the artist and the director and we got told that this was the budget or a rough budget. And then basically we have to send like. And I would say before you officially book. Book the job, you send like a budget. And they obviously have to approve. The. The artist side has to approve. Their team has to approve the budget and say, okay, we can, we can afford this. Like, this is what you're going to get. And you also have to give them realistic expectations because they're, you know, part of the concept might be unrealistic if they don't have, you know, more funds.
[00:42:02] Speaker C: So they're coming to you with a very concrete concept.
[00:42:08] Speaker A: Usually for, for us so far that's kind of been the case.
I also like this. I think ultimately our goal is we just haven't been in a situation where yet where we've reached out to a bigger artist and pitched a concept with a director. But I would say that's also usually how as you become a more established production company and you have directors that you're working with, whether it could be the owners of the company who also directed, but it could be just directors that you have on like a roster or that you work with often. And in that case you would like, reach out whether you found out that they're working, they're looking for treatments, or you just cold email and reach out with a pitch and a treatment for a video. Those are kind of the2.
The two methods most common to like booking a music video.
Yeah, Specifically in our case, it had just happened that people had. We'd been recommended and people reached out to us and then we just, we still had to like, send the budget and make sure that, you know, the budget was realistic and that the, the artist and their team was okay with everything we were presenting them.
[00:43:23] Speaker B: Cool.
[00:43:24] Speaker C: What, what were the materials they sent to you? Do they give you any sort of visual guideline? Or was it just a few words on a page or was it just a phone call being like, I want to be in space and I want to be in a Corvette and there's going to be a horse? You know, like, what, what did they.
[00:43:41] Speaker A: In the case for the projects we worked on. The director has had a treatment, basically a concept for the song.
And so basically we knew we had an idea. You know, our experience is like, we can look at a treatment and know, okay, this is.
This is how much we can make a budget based on like. Also it's. I think it's. Especially on lower budget stuff, I always think it's really important to know what resources does the artist and their team have to work with already? Because sometimes like a big make or break thing on like a. On a low, like whether or not the music video will happen is. Does the artist need like a style, like a hair and makeup and a styling team? Because if they're coming, if, like they're handling that, like, you already know when you send the budget that that's gonna save like X amount of money and that'll make the rest of the concept feasible. Or this one element in the. In this pitch, in this treatment, maybe like, it's like an SFX thing or like one crazy, you know, camera shot. So you need like a special lens. Like, you know, you can make that thing happen because this other thing has been accounted for. So.
Sorry, I'm. Hopefully that makes sense. I'm not rambling.
[00:44:52] Speaker B: No, that. That does. I'm curious, what does a music video treatment look like? Because obviously, you know, or not obviously, but in. In a film treatment or a short film treatment, it'll oftentimes be plot points and action lines and things like that. Usually not dialogue. Maybe throw in dialogue here and there. What does a music video treatment look like?
[00:45:12] Speaker A: I would say it's. It's not too different. It's. Yeah, it's usually a presentation and depending on the music video, you know how narrative it is, it'll have. It can have like the story points or sometimes it's like timestamped, like two different parts of the song.
[00:45:28] Speaker B: The song. Yeah. Or lines or whatever.
[00:45:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And then it'll usually. It's more just focus. I feel like for short film treatments, especially if you're pitching, it's going to have like, you know, oh, this is our crew and this is, you know, and I think it for music videos obviously depends where this treatment is going. But the treatments I've seen are usually obviously much shorter and they're just focused on like the. The visual language of the. Of the idea and of the story.
And like I said, sometimes they're broken down into like, you know, more plot points, if. And scenes.
But otherwise it's mostly like. Yeah, it's just kind of a breakdown of the Song and the visual, the visual language.
[00:46:10] Speaker B: Cool. So you guys are collaborating on the treatment with the director or what does that. I'm sure it varies, but what does that look like?
[00:46:18] Speaker A: Yeah, it did it. So for the bigger projects we've booked with like, bigger, bigger artists, we haven't really contributed to the treatment. It's been like the director had a treatment and, you know, if we, I think if we had ideas throughout the process, you know, we bring something up, but we weren't necessarily like giving too much creative feedback. We, you know, we agreed to work on the project too, because we liked the concept and we really believed in the, in the idea. But we did work on, we did produce something recently that a music video is like low. No budget to. Yeah, very low budget. That Destiny, the director of Cabbage. No, the, that I mentioned earlier that she was directing. And then because, you know, we're kind of starting and developing it together, you know, we were able to give more creative feedback along the way. And in those cases, you're able to, to give more, you know, feedback and have more creative control on the development process.
[00:47:19] Speaker C: So what are they, what are they looking for in you guys? Like, when they're like, okay, here is the treatment you guys got recommended to us.
What are they, what are they looking for?
[00:47:33] Speaker A: I would say that, well, most times people want the lowest budget possible.
[00:47:38] Speaker B: Right? A budget breakdown would be the next step. Right? You guys are the people who are going to provide that.
[00:47:42] Speaker A: Yeah, we give the budget breakdown. I think being easy, I think the, the two things are providing a realistic budget and timeline. But also because I think, I think that's also something you learn with a production company, the more projects you do, you, you learn to, on the front, on the front side, be realistic. Because if you give, if you give like a, if you, let's say you make a budget and you're like, okay, this is too high, and then you lower it and then you send it to the client.
But then you realize you can't deliver on that, that you're going to be in a, in a sticky situation.
So I think, yeah, you set yourself up for failure, basically. So I think providing a realistic budget, you know, and when it's like a low budget project or they're looking for something low budget, which is not always the case, but has been the case for us a few times, it's okay. Where can we make sacrifices and be honest and tell them, okay, we can't do this, but we think this is more important and this is how to get the budget in Like a producible state.
[00:48:41] Speaker B: That's where the creative mindset comes in, you know, like understanding priorities and seeing their vision and understanding. Okay, knowing what they are prioritizing, what. What can we pitch for them to cut. Where they're not going to, like, fire us right away, you know?
[00:48:54] Speaker A: Exactly. So I think it's that. Plus I think they're also looking for people who are easy to work with.
So I think that's another thing. You know, we. We're. We try to keep like a very. And we're very professional, but we try to keep things, you know, very. We're friendly and. And try to bring on crew that, you know, represent us well as.
Represent us well as people.
So, you know, friendly, easy to work with people. That's kind of what we're looking for and trying when we build a crew and build a team so that the impression of the. Of the shoot is one that's positive. And you're not thinking, oh, what a. What a difficult, you know, group of people to work with and a stressful day. Hopefully it's, you know, they're leaving with a much more positive outlook to.
[00:49:41] Speaker C: To actually get that budget breakdown and like, a realistic timeline. How much communication is there? Because there's always that, like, okay, I've sent a hundred emails to this person and they're now, like, the most turned off. And like, I am not gonna work with this person. Like, this is crazy. So, like, yeah. How much communication is there between you and artist, team pre this. This production or budget breakdown to get you the information that you need to, like, have a very. The right. Basically the finalized budget breakdown.
[00:50:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I wouldn't. I would say, in my experience, it's not too much. I think if you know the right questions to ask you, you can, you know, send one or two emails and get most of the information you need. It's kind of what I said earlier where it's like, you know, to ask, oh, are you like, also, do you have friends that if this is. This music video has like 20, 30 extras?
Is the art. Like, are we. Is production responsible for casting and bringing all those people on? Or are you just going to ask, does the artist have 30 friends that they want to bring? Because that's like a huge. That. That, you know, is a huge factor. So knowing to ask those types of questions is great and makes things more efficient. Um, but I would say, personally, in my experience, it's not really that much back and forth before giving the. That kind of approved budget breakdown. And then I would say Secondarily that most of the time, once you send, like, a budget breakdown, they're like, okay, this is within the budget. They're like, their team isn't worried about the budget anymore.
Like, it just becomes the. The production budget.
[00:51:24] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:51:24] Speaker A: Where that's the budget. Whether we take this amount of money and, you know, one of us first ads now so that we can do this, that's not really their concern.
As long as we deliver the final. The final project to them and there's not, you know, no one went crazy over. We can kind of move things around and we'll do whatever it takes to like, deliver the final. The final project within our, you know, limitations financially to.
[00:51:55] Speaker C: To really. To really dig here on that email with those questions. What are you. Like, are they providing a range of a budget, saying, here's what we're able to spend on this, Somewhere between this and this, like, and. And not only that question. But then what are those other questions aside from are your friends also going to be in the party scene or something?
[00:52:18] Speaker A: Sometimes they'll give you a budget and you send back. They'll give you, like, their ideal budget or, you know, someone you, you know of their ideal budget, and then you send back a budget, you do the breakdown, and you're like, okay, it's actually, there's no way to do this for, like, less. Like, it has twice your budget. Like, there's no way to accomplish this concept in the amount of money that, you know, you are able to provide.
[00:52:44] Speaker B: And.
[00:52:44] Speaker A: And then sometimes you send it to. They're, you know, you go back, they send it back, and you're like, okay, we could maybe simplify a couple things and do it for, like, split the difference. And then they'll be like, okay, we'll make that work. Because most of, I mean, ultimately they want this project to happen, and that's why they bring on. They're bringing on producers because they'll tell you, realistically, can this happen?
And obviously that in and of itself is subjective based on the producers.
[00:53:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:12] Speaker A: So that's another. I mean, I can't speak for, you know, what another team or another producer would do, but.
Yeah, I mean, it. Like I said it, Luke, I think it depends on the. The project. They might give you a range or they'll give you a cap, but then you might give them the breakdown and they might be like, oh, shoot, like, I'm going to have to pull 2,000 more out of my savings. Or, yeah, I might, you know, it just depends. And then the second question regarding the Questions in the email, you know, to send to them to get clarification. I would say other than, you know, thinking of the casting, I, I feel like it, you know, sometimes I. Especially for low budget music videos, it's always helpful to know what the. Because especially when it's like an artist and it's like their passion, it's their song, they are able to, you know, maybe have they know, a friend or like a stylist that they've worked with, they have a relationship with, they have certain crew recommendations that are willing to come on the project maybe for like a lower rate than they might usually work for, you know, which is, you know, we. I wish we didn't have to work like that, but sometimes for these project these one day, you know, these simple projects happen, they kind of. It has to be like that.
[00:54:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:54:25] Speaker A: So knowing. Okay, do you have any friends that, that are. Do you have any people that you are going to have work on this that are.
Maybe they have their own camera. Maybe you're borrowing your friend's insurance or they're lending you an insurance policy for free for this shoot because it's super low risk. It's those types of just what, what resources are we able to accumulate amongst us first, maybe at like a discount or at a favor before we have to go and like outsource these, these things?
[00:54:56] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I, I think it's a testament to you both as producers to be able to talk with an artist on that level.
Some producers don't have that sort of personality to be able to connect as artists yourselves. Right. To connect with someone and be like, hey, is there anybody? Like, how do we work through this? You know, because like you're literally saving money by having a good relationship with these, these people and understanding if they have friends who are extras, things like that. I'm curious just to move a little bit forward.
What is your role on set during the actual music video or, you know, whatever you're shooting? What kind of. I'm sure it varies a little bit, but what kind of on set producers are you guys or are you on set or, you know, does it depend.
[00:55:42] Speaker A: Say.
I say if we're. Unless there's a reason we can't be on set. We're on set all the time.
[00:55:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:55:51] Speaker A: And you know, like I said, it depends sometimes like I've had to. I've first ad' ed a music video before when there was like we kind of had needed someone to do it and didn't have resources.
Maria has oftentimes like 2nd AD and she's really good with, especially with working with directors and helping like all the extras.
And on set, you know, an ideal scenario, we're mostly just sitting there, you know, making sure all the food is taken care of, making sure everyone's happy, you know, dealing with talent arriving and most hopefully we're not doing much more than that because that means everything is going well.
But like for example, recently on a project, you know, we, you know, we'll hop in and do anything.
There's been a project we, a big short we've worked on recently that just had a lot of challenges come up and as a result, like I had to drive a three ton truck from Northern California down to LA during a windstorm.
[00:56:53] Speaker B: That's fun.
[00:56:54] Speaker A: That was. I've driven so many, I like, I've driven so many vehicles. I truly believe that I deserve some special license because I, I think I can drive anything. Yeah, like give me the keys to a 16 wheeler, I think I could drive it.
But yeah, like recently we worked on a, on a project that our picture car had an issue on the day of the shoot and we, I had to go pick up a U haul with a toe and we like kind of made like a DIY process trailer on the day of the shoot and somehow we made our day. I don't know how this happened, but yeah, I think we're the type of onset producers just to be like fully hands on.
And then like I said, in the ideal scenario we're not doing much other than sending someone to go get lunch or getting lunch ourselves.
But worst case, you know, but things happen, we'll do anything. Like we'll get our hands dirty. We are there to make sure everything happens.
[00:57:54] Speaker B: Cool. And then what is your role? When does your role end? You know, you finish up your. Are you talking with the editor? What does the post production rollout marketing process look like as producers?
[00:58:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that also varies on a project by project level. I think we're ultimately our goal and we like to be involved through post and obviously through delivery, making sure everything is, is sent over and that we want to be like post supervising when we can. On some projects it's especially if like.
[00:58:25] Speaker B: The editors, the infrastructure is larger.
[00:58:29] Speaker A: Yeah, it depends. Sometimes it's like uh, we've had where an artist has edited their project so maybe it's less, you know, we're less involved in like making sure everything because they're aware of the timeline and they know all the limitations. So I think it really depends. But I think ultimately yeah, we we like to be involved in, especially in feedback, especially on shorts. Like, we love to be involved in giving feedback on cuts and on sound and music. For me, I like as a director and as a producer, like, music is a huge thing for me and, and color, that's another thing. I, I'm. I'm taught myself Da Vinci because I really want to start coloring stuff. I've done a couple projects, but like, color and music on the post side is something I really like focusing on as well.
[00:59:17] Speaker B: And then as far as marketing and things like that. What does, what does that look like?
[00:59:23] Speaker A: I, Again, I, I do think this, like, varies by project on all the shorts we're, you know, we're going to be involved in submitting to festivals, like, helping. We have a bunch of shorts that are kind of in different levels of post right now.
And plus happy, happy birthdays, you know, going into festivals. So hopefully, you know, we want to help contribute to the festival strategy and we definitely want to be part of that and understand because that's something we, you know, everyone, I think is constantly learning because festival. Festivals are always changing.
Marketing always changes. Like where. Where is it best to market a project? Where is it best to showcase a project, so. And distribute it, ultimately alter. There's, there's all these different street streaming services. You can put shorts on even or. Yeah. So I think, I think it varies project by project, but we would, you know, we like to be involved as much as we can.
[01:00:23] Speaker B: Cool.
[01:00:24] Speaker C: I feel like I could ask you too many questions, but I will, I will try because I see the time kind of what, what I'm hearing a lot of, though, just the importance of communication, you know, And I. What I want to ask is, is for the filmmaker or young producer who maybe is working at a production company right now and is like, I want to. This isn't scratching the itch, you know, Like, I gotta, I gotta get out there and do my own thing. I just don't know how you've. You've really laid it out in an awesome way. Like, what. What is like a piece of advice now? How many years has it been? I guess a couple years now.
[01:01:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Two since I graduated. Yeah, it's been two.
[01:01:14] Speaker C: But I mean, with odd one out.
[01:01:15] Speaker A: Oh, odd one out. Sorry, sorry.
I guess basically we're gonna hit two. Yeah. Only two years.
[01:01:22] Speaker C: Okay, so with a couple years. Couple years in, like, what's. What's the one piece of advice you kind of wish you could tell yourself at the beginning of this process?
[01:01:34] Speaker A: This is gonna be so cliche. But I'm gonna say trust the process.
I think looking back at our. What we talked about at the time when we were starting and kind of our goals, it feels like things are manifesting now in everything that's happened. You know, it is. It is a lot of work, and I don't want to, you know, in the moment, it's gonna feel probably pretty overwhelming, and that you're working a lot and you're doing a lot to make things happen. It is hard. You know, sometimes you have a really hard shoot and you're like, you think about a little bit about giving up. You're like, oh, my God, is this worth it?
Especially. Cause with film and media, I feel like some things just take forever and ever to finish. And the benefits of having it released or getting into festivals, those things that can be years from the beginning of a project to the end, and it's, like, hard to be patient when those rewards come so much later.
So I think I would say, yeah, trust. Trust yourself. Trust the process.
Believe in it, and set these ambitions and these goals for yourself. Because now it's like I'm realizing they're manifesting. There are certain. I. You know, there's. There are certain things that we talked about months or a year ago, and I'm like, now they're coming to fruition, and I'm really thankful for that. And it's. And in the moment, it, like, right now, it feels normal. Like, I feel the same as I did a year ago, but it's like, oh, I'm actually one step. You know, we've made it. We've made a lot of progress, and we've gone up one rung of the ladder. And I think.
I think it's just important to sometimes take a step back, like, look. Look at everything you've done and just be proud of yourself and really give yourself.
Give yourself recognition of your work and all of your efforts. Because I think we all need to, like, appreciate ourselves and each other more these days and.
[01:03:39] Speaker B: Absolutely, you know, well, Gabby, we appreciate you because we have grilled you this episode. And. And it's. We. But we pride ourselves on being a How to podcast, you know, so you were the perfect person to, you know, walk us through how to basically how to start your own company, how to be a communicative producer, how to work on music videos, specifically relationships with artists. We really touched it all. So we really appreciate you coming on.
[01:04:09] Speaker A: Thank you. Yeah, it's been. I'm. Thank you for having me on. I'm glad I got to. I feel like this was good for me, too, because I. I have not, like, ever had to really explain this, so. So hopefully it made sense.
[01:04:22] Speaker C: It absolutely did.
[01:04:23] Speaker B: Some good. Some good Time to reflect. Definitely.
[01:04:25] Speaker C: We'll have to have you back on again to talk about directing and writing.
[01:04:30] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[01:04:31] Speaker C: You know, Absolutely.
[01:04:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:04:32] Speaker C: Then another time for the music.
[01:04:34] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
We'll keep us posted on anything. On everything. Hope, Hope to, you know, have you at the next festival. And thanks for. For supporting us and, you know, we support everything you do, so really appreciate it.
[01:04:47] Speaker A: Well, thanks. Thanks again. I hope you guys have a great day.
[01:04:50] Speaker C: You too.
Did you learn something? Unlike your mom, did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging. Make sure you follow us at the 5050Fest on Instagram and give us five stars, because. Why not? Why not subscribe? Why not? You know why not? Okay, bye.
