Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Like, I think a complaint from film journalists and TV journalists is that, like, oh, I don't. I never get enough time with the, like, with the actor. The actor. The actor's been sitting in interviews all day answering the same questions, and they don't. They haven't given me anything. And that's, like, not the environment that I really want to be part of. So when I interview an actor, it's like, I try so hard to think about questions that, like, move into a different direction than, like, everything else they've been asked. And that kind of, like, gets them to go a little deeper so that we're having almost like a therapy session. I just want them to feel like they're almost like, taking a break and getting to just, like, have, like, do a deep dive at a party.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Welcome to the 5050 podcast, where we've made it our mission to nurture and empower the next generation of industry talent. Through this podcast, we expand the reach of 5050 film festival by giving an exclusive peek behind the curtain into the creative and business sides of the entertainment industry. We sit down with folks from all corners of the biz, garnering educational insight into process, production and execution. This week we talk with Rachel Brodsky, a music and pop culture journalist who has written for Stereogum, the LA Times, Rolling Stone, and Time Magazine. Looking forward to it.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: I remember when I was first starting out in my career, just, just the idea of, like, speaking alone in a meeting terrified me and, and, and I had to actually speak continuously in meetings, like, habitually and fuck up and try again and fuck up and try again just to get over that. And I think podcasting served a really similar purpose in addition to just having it, like, on my proverbial resume. Like, I think when I, when we started it, I was a little bit skeptical because I thought, well, everyone has a podcast, and I'm coming into this so late in the game, like, of podcasting that I, I feel myself rolling my eyes at it even while I'm saying it. But the whole reason why I really started it in the first place was because I had a friend, a former coworker, who had a production company for podcasts. And he said, if you have an idea for a podcast, I'd love to help you produce it. And I thought, like, well, this is really the ideal way because I don't really want to just, like, from the ground up, like, self producer of a podcast altogether. Yeah, self produce it. So having that, like, that backing was very helpful and was proved to be like, a real.
What's the word, like catalyst for sort of a fire under my butt to get me doing it. And getting my friend and neighbor Aviv involved was also huge because he had such a podcast background that like he was immediately like knew what to do. And I was sort of like starting from square one as a fan of podcasts. And he just like really understood how like they're structured and how they get edited and like what works and what doesn't work. And he's also just like a great writer and a very like dynamic like microphone presence. So I'm just like really glad that he was there and like helped me kind of, you know, really like I had kind of the initial idea for the podcast, which is like a show about like great needle drops in film and tv, both like classic and current. And not only did he have like a billion ideas that could kind of live under that umbrella, he was just like, just so instrumental in kind of like coming at all the research from this great film background and insight. Like he's, he teaches, he's a film professor on top of everything else.
And just like having him there with me was like just, you know, I'm just so crazy grateful.
So having like with that on my resume, like I met a lot of people through it, which is great. Like people found me it on a just a behind the scenes like day to day level. It's how I got my, my main like copywriting, content marketing job. Like I, when I'm not writing like sexy pieces for, for like the LA Times and Time Magazine, Rolling Stone and stuff, I do content marketing, like blogging for a file sharing service called Disco that like the whole music industry and some film industry use. And like they found me because they were like, oh, this writer, we need a writer. And this writer seems to understand the, the sync world because I was, had a podcast about it. Even though I'm not really talking about it from like a industry standpoint. I was talking about it from like purely from like a fan standpoint. But that seemed to be enough and I'm still there and I'm really glad that they me through NSync.
[00:05:11] Speaker C: How did you find yourself in like the music and film world?
[00:05:18] Speaker A: Well, film is really a later development really.
When I moved to LA in 2017, I had made my byline name as a writer, as a music journalist. And that's what I did in New York. I worked at MTV for two years, I worked at Spin magazine for two years and I wrote freelance for a whole bunch of other places, small blogs, some bigger publications. But like MTV and Spin and a little bit Paste magazine. These were like the three feathers in my cat. So I was like music journalist all the way, but moving to la. Like, I love film and tv. Like, I'm a huge TV nut. I watch almost. Well, not everything, but like, I'm always watching something and it just seemed to make sense that, like, I want to be able to be hireable in LA and I.
LA is just like the land of film and tv. No knock on wood. Hopefully, like, it continues to be. I know that's kind of a point, a real pain point right now as far as, like, what gets produced, but it's still like the. The foundation, the energy of film of LA is like just people who love despite themselves film and television. And I felt like I could fit in that world just as easily because I don't like to be pigeonholed. There are so many things I like to write about. So when I first moved to la, actually I. I accept I had accepted a job technically, like in tv, but. But, like, doing, like, right, like digital content for cbs. Basically my job. And so I was like, kind of trying to see, like, how would I fit into this world as opposed to music. I feel kind of burned out on music and.
But I mean, I guess to answer your question, like, to go back a minute, I just, like, grew up, like, wanting to be a music journalist in the most idealistic, like, romantic way possible, you know, I watched Almost Famous when I was up in, like, middle school and was just so, so taken by it and thought, like, that's something I might want to do. Even though I'd already kind of thought, like, I love to write and I love music, you know, Like, I was just obsessed with these things and, like, didn't really put it all together. And then when I got a little older, I just voraciously read issues of Rolling Stone and Spin and like, I was just a big magazine book.
[00:07:54] Speaker C: Music. What? Sorry to cut you off. Like, what? Because I want to lean in.
[00:07:58] Speaker A: I could just go on and on. So you're.
[00:08:00] Speaker C: No, no, but I just, like, I want to lean into that. That spark of, like, you know, what was it? The. The lifestyle of the, like, in watching Almost Famous or something? Like, what. What was it that was so, like, was it because it was a young person? Like, in this space, they weren't really supposed to be, like, breaking the rules? Like, were you ever interested in becoming a musician or an artist? Like, obviously writing is right there with it too, but, like, I just. I want to lean into, like, what it was that was so like, exciting to you?
[00:08:27] Speaker A: I think it was trial and error.
Like, I. I took music lessons.
Like, I played the. I played the saxophone and in band for a couple of years as like in elementary school. And I played the guitar a little bit, but I, I just didn't have like. I like to joke that I have the ear. I have great ear for music. I can, I can really piece together like what sounds like what, what sounds and what that sounds like. And that sounds like I could really like, like dice, like deconstruct what an artist's influences are. So I have like, the historical aspect of it, like really down pat. But I don't have. But, but I lack like, fine motor skills.
So when I tried to play drums like the.
My palms would sweat and I had a hard time like, keeping the sticks in my hand and I have just really like, poor hand coordination. So, like, playing the guitar was really, really difficult. Like, it just did not come naturally to me. Even though I can pick out almost any tune on a piano just like by, you know, listening. So I think I just like, was so not immediately like, like some, some kids, you just sit them down at an instrument and it's like they were always meant to be there. And that was never, that was never really me. I was more like.
I was just like in my happiest place when I was consuming music and like, or books or movies or like any form of media. I was like in my happiest place. Just like I had a beanbag chair in my childhood bedroom. So I would just like be in my beanbag chair just like listening to CDs because this is a long time ago and reading, you know, my stack of books and magazines and like, just happy.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: Just consuming culture.
[00:10:26] Speaker A: Constantly just consuming culture. And I didn't realize that it could be like a mode of work down the line. I also knew that I liked to write because I would do that just for fun. I'd write myself short stories and just for no other reason than I like to do it. Never thinking anything really about it. And it wasn't until high school that I had a teacher who sort of pulled me aside and was like, you know, Rachel, you're a pretty good writer. Maybe you should think about, like, go trying out for the, for the school paper.
And so, so I did that. And also, and I really took it seriously when she pulled me aside because no, teachers were not in the habit of pulling me aside to tell me I was good at anything.
So that really struck me like that, that Any. Any teacher would, of course, would, like, zero in on me.
And because I wasn't a talkative kid, like, in class, I was very shy and just kept to myself. And that anybody would single me out felt like a huge deal. So I was like, well, I guess I better. You know. Hopefully I've answered your question.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
But anyway, I got into, like, reviewing albums, like, just albums as they came out for the school paper, and just. Because that was the. That was what I had the most fun doing. And, yeah, like, I.
I just, you know, thought, well, maybe one day I. I wasn't like, 100%. Like, I'm going to be a music journalist at that point. Like, there were a lot of things I loved. Like, I loved radio, and I thought maybe I might get into radio.
I had internships in college that were, like, at. In a satellite radio station. And I thought maybe I would, like, try to parlay that into something which didn't obviously work out, but I. I had a lot of different interests, I think. Like, going, you know, into my professional career was just, again, like, a lot of trial and error, truly. Like, I would try to help people out if I. If I knew them.
And then, like, that's how I figured out, like, well, I don't really like music publicity for, like, XY reason. I, like, don't really, like, you know, really kind of came down to, like, publicity and editorial. I just felt like editorial ultimately spoke much more to me, and I kind of like, revisited the old, like, the childhood dream from long before.
Like, it was always there. I just kind of had to find.
[00:12:54] Speaker C: My way to it with those reviews of the, like, the album reviews. Back in the day, were you, like, heavy critiquing? Were you, like, okay, here's this. And, like, it's pulled from this sample from back in the day. Were you, like, you know, this artist is really interesting because they're from Ohio and they just moved. Like, were you getting into that, or is it more of just, like, I like this. I'm excited for the next song, you know, like, what it was.
[00:13:24] Speaker A: The one that really stands out to me the most was like, this is. This is gonna give my, like, how old I am away.
But this.
When I was in high school, the second Strokes album came out, and being in high school, when the first Strokes album came out, that was like, a real.
Just. It. Just a wave. It sent a wave through everyone that. Like, through high schools, high schools in general. And so when for me, myself included, like, I loved the Strokes, and when the next album came out. I was like, I want to review it.
And as I listened to it, I was like, this is.
This sounds great, but it sounds exactly like the first album.
And that's pretty much what my review said.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: Like, so you had your thesis, right?
[00:14:11] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I was like, what do we. You know, without getting too deep, because I wasn't, you know, such a critical thinker yet. I was mostly just like, is this what we want from them? Like, do we, like, are they playing it safe? Do we want them to grow past that first sound? Like, it was more just kind of like trying to, you know, like, parse. What do we expect from a band that, like, completely changed the paradigm of rock music in this moment? And, like, do we want them to sound exactly the same as before, or do we want them to grow? And, like, I'm probably over intellectualizing it. I don't even think I got that deep about it. I think I was mostly just like.
Like, you might expect me to say that this album rules because the Strokes are great, but it also just. But this project sounds like a mirror to the last. And I don't know how, and I don't know if that's a mark of success or not.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you're developing your. Your voice as a. As a critic, as a journalist. I think that's really interesting. Are you. Do you remember any of, like, the feedback that you got in terms of. Okay, so it wasn't like the newspaper comes out and everybody's grabbing their thing and going, what did Rachel say?
[00:15:23] Speaker A: No, I don't think anyone gave a shit, to be honest.
I have to be honest. Like, I don't think anyone cared this. I was doing this for me. Yeah, and me. And me. Really? Only if anyone read it. It was like, my friends, and I don't even know how much they cared.
Yeah. High school is like. When I. When I think about that time, it's like I have.
It's just very fuzzy because I was so. Just like, not in my body when I was just waiting for it to end so that I could start my life.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: Yeah, Well, I think still. Still throughout this time, we find those moments of glimpses of your future self. You know, whether it's the teacher telling you that this is something you're good at or finding your voice as a critic through that article.
Fast forward into post high school, and as you're gearing up towards your professional, professional career, were there any other moments like that in which you found yourself, like, oh, like, this is what I should be doing?
[00:16:28] Speaker A: Yes. And no, because I really didn't write that much aside from being an English major in college, which I loved.
Like the humanities are in trouble and they have been. And there you will hear so many logical reasons from all part concerned parties about like how unwise it is to major in humanities when AI can just do all the work in the writing for you. But nothing will teach you to think like an English major or like a maybe philosophy major. I, I don't know because that, I didn't do that. But like me something like similar to an English major or film major. But the English major like really, really taught me to think because I still to this day will like if I'm writing something with a critical angle, I will still think of like in my English professors being like, okay, so like someone in class would point out that this something happened that feels significant in what we're reading and then our teacher would be like, yes, that is true, it is significant. So what, so what that this XYZ happen. And that is like the launching pad I think for any thesis that gets you into like a critical essay. Like so what that.
And so in that way like that really got the engines going just in terms of writing and thinking like a critical writer and.
But in college my main activity, really my main extracurricular was college radio. I did college radio all four years.
And that's why I thought maybe I'd go into radio. And it was super free form. I could just play more or less whatever I wanted. I went to a small liberal arts school where there was like a art, music, etc community but it wasn't a big one.
And so anyone who really like wanted to be on the radio frankly could be on the radio. And so I like rose up in the ranks and by the end of college was the music director at the station.
Which kind of set me on a path thinking like, I know I want to work in the music industry after college, which has since evolved into like music, culture, entertainment.
Yeah. But college radio is really, I think where I came of age the most.
[00:19:14] Speaker C: Were you hosting that radio show all four years?
[00:19:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I hosted radio shows.
[00:19:21] Speaker C: Wow, that's. That's all. I mean there's, I remember you saying the not loving your voice but like you know, that's.
[00:19:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I didn't like it then either. And I frankly, it wasn't great. I wasn't, I really wasn't like a great ho. I mean I think I got better like by my senior year I did have friends and people who cared to listen. Tell me, oh, you Sound a lot more confident on the mic than you used to.
[00:19:49] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:19:50] Speaker A: And.
But I was like, I don't think anyone's really, like, tuning in to hear me talk. I just want to, like, fill up as much air time as possible with just, like, music that I love. Like, I really just wanted the music to, like, speak for me in a way. Although, at the same time, I did have friends and people would tell me, oh, you've got a good radio voice. So what? I'm like, it's like two things can be true at once.
[00:20:14] Speaker C: If. If hosting wasn't your favorite part about the radio, Unless it was, maybe it was your favorite part about the radio show.
[00:20:21] Speaker A: Curating was my favorite part.
[00:20:22] Speaker C: Okay, so can you talk? Because. Yeah, I feel the same way about the festival. Like, it's such an art that I never really respected because I didn't understand it, you know, and, like, after doing it for a few years and coming through thousands of short films at this point and selecting tens of them, just, like, kind of understanding, like, how difficult it is to curate an event, you know, or a show and thinking about, you know, or being hyper aware of, like, the experience of the audience or the listener in your case.
And for us, it's like the viewer, like, watching 10 short films back to back to back kind of thing, and thinking about the flow and the curation and how these fit together and how they kind of start conversation or whatever it is. Like, with that radio show and curating, like, was that something that came very easy to you because of your background already and, like, critiquing music in high school, or was this like a. A whole new world of, like, ooh, what's this?
[00:21:23] Speaker A: I think it was more of the latter and a little bit. A little bit the former, because I would pick albums I wanted to review in high school based on a gut feeling that this is important and that someone will be, like, hungry to read about this thing that they're excited about. Like, so that that kind of played into it. But as far as, like, curating a radio show, I think a lot of it was, like, just kind of just. Just a lot of it was gut feeling.
I still can't quite explain it. I've always loved making playlists for people, and I did that. I, like, I would make, like, mixed CDs for friends, boyfriends, anybody. I made a mixed CD for my.
My favorite English professor. Like, making mixed CDs again, I'm dating myself was just, like, how I expressed myself through other voices and what I.
[00:22:20] Speaker C: Wanted to say, like, you're getting like, I'm telling Wyatt, this is how I feel about you, and I'm gonna hear 10 songs rather than like, hey, Wyatt, I think you'd like these 10 songs. Like, check this out.
[00:22:31] Speaker A: I think it was a real, a real marriage of both, honestly. Like, a part of it was just like using the, the sort of the lyricism to describe my feelings. And then at the same time, it's like, I think you will really dig these songs by these artists. Maybe you already know them, maybe you don't.
[00:22:49] Speaker C: Did you find joy in, like, oh, like I showed you this album for the first time? Yeah.
[00:22:55] Speaker B: Do you like introducing stuff to people?
[00:22:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. Well, I, I, it's interesting. I think I more just like, enjoy enjoying things with people, like, just like simultaneously. It's hard, I think it's hard to explain. Like, I don't know. When I was younger, certainly, like, there's a real romanticism to like, someone introducing you to something and then you are passing it along to someone else.
Which I, I think was more tangible back in the days of like, mixtapes and CDs and, and so on. Because now it's like people just depend on the algorithm to recommend them things when they're just like, ultimately sonically just going in circles. It's like they're, they think they're wandering through the forest in a straight line, but really they just made a huge circle because of the way the algorithm works where it's like, you like this thing. Well, then you'll like that thing that's like this thing. You like this thing. And like, there's no intentionality in like, well, hey, like, there's, you know, who influenced that band that, this current band, like 50 years prior. Well, check this out. Like, there's, I don't. Yeah, so it's, it's changed so much.
[00:24:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:26] Speaker A: The whole, like, idea of, of introducing.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: People to music and curation in general, like.
[00:24:33] Speaker A: And curation. Yeah. That I almost don't even think about anym. More, you know, for. I like one of the music websites that I wrote for the most in the last 5ish years, stereo gum, if you ever read them. And I was just amazed at the editor, Scott, is that he's the owner and longtime editor and he started Stereo Gum back in like 2002 or three.
And I was just amazed that he is able to like, still hold this much new music in his brain.
Because you really do. Like, it's true what they say, the older you get, the less you care about new music. Or it's like you just start to filter out a lot more of it and you have to really work to keep engaging with it and the way he does and just the vast catalog he has in his mind through the decades, all the way up until now, I'm constantly amazed by it. So I would really just pay attention to him and the managing editor of Stereogum, Chris deville, because I just felt like they were like, like baby birding, like just, just tons and tons and tons of new bands because I frankly didn't have the time or the energy to even keep up as much because I've tried to span out into different topics. So while I'm trying to keep up with new music, I'm also trying to keep up with new movies, also trying to keep up with new comedians, also trying to keep up with, with new TV shows. And you can't, you literally can't absorb all of it.
[00:26:09] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:10] Speaker A: And yeah. So like go. So I think just like I was really grateful to Stereogum in particular because of like they're, they're one of the last bastions of music websites that's like deeply care about platforming new music and like being that curator, that recommender.
[00:26:28] Speaker B: Yeah. I think curation and self curation is so, so important in establishing your own taste and your own voice and specific. When we have algorithms really clouding that up for us, frankly, whether it's, as you said, comedy, movies, music. Do you have any advice for going against the algorithm and really intentionally exposing yourself to new art?
[00:26:56] Speaker A: Yes.
Well, I think that the way I find new art is generally by following writers who I like and I can I through other people and I think they have really great taste and I know that social, you know, spending time on social media is a huge gamble these days and it can just depress the shit out of you. And it certainly does me.
But one of the bright spots by being, for me at least being on like social media and continuing to read websites and magazines and listen to podcasts.
So I think like the, the like spectrum of media and with hosts that I follow on social media, like I try to like via osmosis, listen to what they have to say. Like, let me try to think of an example. Well, I, I, So I read a lot of Vulture and after I like watch a episode of something that's like trendy, I almost always like jump directly to the recap section because I just want to see what they had to say.
And I spent a lot of time just on Vulture, the website, like scrolling through because a.
I just I know myself and like I'm Mark. I'm marketed to as a like 30 something former New Yorker, current LA or like, like what would a, like, you know, smart, a college educated millennial, who's all. Who like works in media. Like, and you know, a lot, A lot of them, yeah, a lot of those, like publications and like people who write for those publications will like, they have their finger on the pulse. And so I just, I pay really close attention to what I feel like tastemakers, like, and hopefully that makes sense. Like I'm as much of, as much as I am a fan of like actors, directors and you know, musicians and, and so on. I'm also as like equally a fan of other writers and, and podcasters who I just want to like pick their brain for days and like just ask them about like what was the last thing that made you laugh or made you cry. Totally.
[00:29:15] Speaker C: Do you find those answers in the content they produce?
[00:29:20] Speaker A: Depends. It depends. I mean if they're being, if they're being interviewed about like the scope of their entire career, then that might be there. Yeah, like they're formative, like you know, TV shows and movies and records and.
But if they're all. But if I'm listening to like an NPR podcast and they're just like talking about something like the latest show that's making them happy, like pop culture happy hour, like that's usually a signal to me that like, oh, that might be something that I would enjoy. So I, I usually like, want to know what, like Vulture, npr, like New Yorker, New York magazine, whatever. I usually want to know what all these places are consuming because chances are like, if I'm a big reader of those writers, then you know, I want to also like keep up with what they find interesting and, and also like following conversations. Like I'm very online despite myself and I'm always fascinated at like what's really sparking conversation on TikTok and Twitter, even though I hate Twitter.
But I go on, but I go on out of habit because I like grew up or grew up. I came of age with like the best version of it.
So.
[00:30:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:35] Speaker A: Yeah, anyway, hopefully that answered your question. I can just like really yap.
[00:30:39] Speaker B: No, no, I mean it's interesting. It's kind of like a double edged sword. Right. We talk about social media and it feeding you kind of things in a vacuum, but also you're able to discover things, you know, like, would you, would you say that social media has been like a net positive for discovery of new artists?
[00:30:57] Speaker A: Yes, in the sense that I'm interested in the conversation. Like when I'm on social media, I'm more interested in the conversation.
Like, perfect example, this isn't like I'm not discovering Celine's song, but I've been really fascinated this last couple weeks with like the whole discourse around materialists.
[00:31:20] Speaker B: I'm seeing it tomorrow, believe it or not.
[00:31:23] Speaker A: Okay, I won't say anything. I saw an early screening and had to.
[00:31:27] Speaker B: I think you've said, I think you've said everything you need to say with that.
[00:31:32] Speaker A: Okay, well, I had, let me just say that I saw an early screening of it and I had to sit with my complicated feelings about it for like a month before it came out. And I find the current discourse extremely validating because I was just like, oh, I predicted it. This is like what I thought people were going to say. This is what they're saying anyway. So that's not like discovering artists, but like, I think I find the discourse like the most interesting part about social media. Like what, what people are saying about something new which can maybe create like a, like a monoculture, which is a whole other conversation. But I'm trying to think of like the discovery aspect that you're, you're talking about. And honestly, I think like I discover the most just by still like being on, you know, X or whatever Blue sky threads and just like getting a sense of what is making people want to talk about things like on their phone or like if I, I follow a lot of film critics and they will be like, I just saw an early screening of Blah and I can't wait for everyone else to see it and it's as great as everyone said. And like for me that's how I probably discover stuff. And then the rest of the time is like, I get like floods of press releases in my inbox every, every day.
So that like relationships with publicists is probably another way that I am like in discovery mode.
[00:33:07] Speaker C: Honestly, was, or what was the process of shifting into film critiquing? Like, was that starting from zero again or did your music background kind of and that sort of critique inform going into film?
[00:33:29] Speaker A: Well, frankly, I, I mean, to be honest with you, like, I've never really been like a film critiquer truly. Like, I wouldn't, I would not say that I'm like a film critic because I like the majority of my film related writing is through profiling actors and directors or mainly actors, like I've interviewed a number of them and comedians.
So that, that's really my bread and butter as a entertainment writer is in profiles and features.
[00:34:04] Speaker B: This is going to be a tough question, but what's something unexpected you've learned about actors and writers or something that a misconception you think people have about them that you've learned by getting to know them on a personal level.
[00:34:21] Speaker A: Okay. I think your average entertainment journalist gets very frustrated by the process of interviewing actors because they, they have like. I don't really go to junkets.
For example, when I interview an actor it's usually for like an hour maybe in person, probably over zoom, but we have at least an hour to really go deep.
And I think that a lot of journalists, and I don't want to speak for all entertainment journalists here because I really am someone who's like hybridized.
My, like, my greatest familiarity is in like the music, is in the music journalism process in the music, music industry. Like, that's what I know the most about. And then when I go and interview an actor or a comedian, it's like I'm, I feel like I'm almost playing dress up in like a different outfit because I know like I don't come from this world really, but I'm applying the same tools that I use to like write a profile of a musician, but kind of like passing it over to a different medium.
Which doesn't change much for me because I just like, I'm just interested in the person.
[00:35:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:40] Speaker A: Ultimately like my, I think my main criticism that I've gotten like from editors is like oh, like if you're right, if I'm writing about a musician or something like, or band, they'll be like, oh, write more about like the music. Because I always want to write more about the person.
I'm just really interested in the way people work and what their motivations are in their entire life story. Like I will like a party. If I'm at a party, I will probably just like get into a really intense long conversation with a stranger and like, or another party goer and just like ask them just all about themselves. And like, like last night, perfect example, I was at a birthday party and I got talking with an acquaintance who, who is in her late 30s and has an 11 year old. And I was like, so you must have had your daughter when you were in your late twenties and you live in la. Like you must have been one of the first people, like one of your friends, friend, group to like get pregnant. Like, how was that?
[00:36:42] Speaker B: Like, and you're absolutely just like interviewing her.
[00:36:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Like that's just like the mode. That's like the mode. I go Into Because I was like, that's really interesting. Like, will you tell me about that? And she told me everything and we had a great chat. But so anyway, when. When I go and like, interview, like, I think a complaint from film journalists and TV journalists is that, like, I don't. I never get enough time with the, like, with the. The actor. The actor. The actor's been sitting in interviews all day answering the same questions, and they don't. They haven't given me anything. And that's like, not the environment that I really want to be part of. So when.
When I interview an actor, it's like, I try so hard to think about questions that, like, move into a different direction than, like, everything else they've been asked. And that kind of like, gets them to go a little deeper so that we're having almost like a therapy session if they. If they're okay with it. Like, I just want them to feel like they're almost like taking a break and getting to just, like, have, like, do a deep dive at a party.
So I think, like, what's been surprising to me is, like, some people I've interviewed, I've heard like, less than shiny things about from other people who've interviewed them.
But. But we had in our interview experience, like, a wonderful, genuine deep diving conversation. And like, I. So I think, like, I almost try to approach the actor. Like, I know you hate doing this.
No one likes doing press.
I understand that.
I'm not here to, like, catch you off guard or like, gotcha. Or I, like, I just want to crawl around in your brain for a little while and like, you know, have it be as genuine and authentic as possible. Like, that's always been my goal.
So hopefully that answers.
Do you question.
[00:38:55] Speaker C: Do you prefer to do these in person or over zoom? I know you said you.
[00:38:59] Speaker A: I mean, ideally in person.
[00:39:00] Speaker C: And where. If it is in person, what are you going to their house? Are they coming to your place? Like, are you going to a coffee shop? Is it where.
[00:39:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it depends. It depends. So last year I interviewed Mikey Madison for Rolling Stone. And this was before, like, Anora landed in theaters.
I just remember seeing a Nora and being like, this girl's gonna get the Oscar. She is gonna be famous. Like, she is going to be a list as high as you can go. Oscar getting famous. And I am meeting with her and meeting with her. Well, this will be like, the last time that probably she's able to, like, just be out in public without having, like, a Beatles situation. Just people, like, running at her.
So that Was really fascinating because, like, she. She picked a park in, I think, Studio City to meet.
I think this is a Rolling Stone thing, but I think Rolling Stone likes for the subject of their interviews to, like, pick an activity. So in my experience, it's been kind of, like, up to the subject. And I think this is. This might be a specific to print. Like, if it's going to be in print, then it has to be an activity.
If it's just online, then usually it ends up being zoom.
[00:40:31] Speaker B: But why, before you get into it, why do you think that is that they. That they urge the person to pick an activity?
[00:40:39] Speaker A: Well, it adds color. Like, just like having. Doing something with the subject. It's like, it gives me, the writer, an opportunity to observe them in an environment where not everything is in their control.
Right. So another example, like, I. I interviewed Ava Victor in a similar profile setting for Rolling Stone, and they picked up, like, mug painting or, like, they wanted to go to a Color Me Mine location. And so there were other people at Color Me Mine, and now we're all looking at, like, the wall of. Of. Of objects you can choose to paint. And. And they're like, just the comments that they made about what, what should I pick? What do I need versus what do I want? And then someone might say something to them, because we're all kind of, like, in this unusual. We don't spend every day, like, coloring, you know, painting mugs.
So, like, just that environment will create, like, commentary that I'm there observing. And if I can kind of, like, take this unique experience and showcase it in a charming way to the audience, like, that, like, really adds, I think, a lot to the piece.
So, yeah, like, Ava was painting, and then a little girl was. You know how kids do that thing where they, like, look at you, they stare at you without talking? And so this. A little girl was doing that to Ava just watching them paint their mug. And Ava looks at the little girl and goes, hi. And the little girl just, like, wordlessly turns around, and Ava was just like, she hates me.
[00:42:35] Speaker B: You're right. That adds so much color to the interview. I mean, it really sets the scene. Yeah.
[00:42:41] Speaker A: So the audience feels like they've spent time with the subject, too.
[00:42:47] Speaker B: Totally. Totally.
[00:42:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:48] Speaker B: Okay, so take us back to the park. You're with Mikey. What are you doing in the park? Are you doing yoga or.
[00:42:55] Speaker A: No, she wanted to have a picnic in the park and.
Or I forget if. I forget the exact order of events. If we decided it would be a snack, picnic prior, like, if she suggested a Snack picnic. Or if she, like, looked up my name and saw that I liked snacks, because I think I have it written somewhere in, like, an author bio. Like, Rachel Brodsky likes, like, snacks, flea markets and fun and unusual snacks.
[00:43:23] Speaker B: Love that.
[00:43:24] Speaker A: But. But we. She decided, like, we're gonna have a picnic in the park. So, like, I got, like, a bag full of snacks, because that's, like, my go to. And she shows up with, like, two bulging Trader Joe's bags full of unusual snacks. And she was like, I read that you like to try new and unusual snacks. And I was like, you looked me up.
[00:43:50] Speaker B: That's so sweet. That's so sweet of her to do that.
[00:43:54] Speaker A: So, like, the picnic idea started, like, as her idea, and I think it evolved because she read something about me, which is. I don't think. I don't think that's. That's normal.
[00:44:06] Speaker B: Like, that's so unusual.
[00:44:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, it's usually the actor. Like, you're really focusing all in on them, and they're very aware of it. And in this case, she was, like, doing her research on me, which I wasn't, like, used to. And that was super endearing.
And that was when, like, I think. I think that most audiences became aware that, like, oh, Mikey, the person is nothing like the character she was playing. Like, nothing. And that was. That was, like, being, like, smacked in the face. Like, that kind of cognitive dissonance of sitting down with her and realizing that she is very shy, very low key, just, like, fully, you know, not. She's. She's not what you think of when you think of, like, she's. She's just a very, like, erudite film person. She just, like, loves, like, a Criterion Closet situation. So when I saw and she made it into the Criterion closet for promo, I was just like, well, now she's living her dream, because that's, like, who she is. Like, she wants to be like, a. Like a Cate Blanchett, like, kind of character. So I was just grateful to have kind of gotten to be on the ground floor of her success.
[00:45:21] Speaker C: Was it. Was it clear to you that she was aware of her current standing of being on the ground floor, almost, like, waiting for that elevator? Like, was she in that. In that spot with. I don't even know what that would look like in conversation or sound like, but, like, did it seem like she was aware of what was going on or what was.
[00:45:42] Speaker A: I think that.
I think that she was just in that place where she, like, so much was about to happen and a lot had already happened. Like, she received so much goodwill at the festivals and everything. And the next day she was flying to Paris or something or New York. Like, she was already flying everywhere, like jet setting that.
I think in some ways she was so, like, busy that there was no time to really process it and have an awareness in the moment.
Like, I think, like so much, so many of the accolades that showed up were like, like, still in the future that she could like, walk around relatively anonymous and just be like, I can just like, go about my life in LA without like, anyone looking at me.
But a lot of great stuff has already happened and I'm. She had like a satisfaction that she had done her job well.
But I mean, I don't, I don't think she was like, aware necessarily of exactly, like, where it was going to go.
And I know I don't want to speak for her, of course, but she was just very taken as it comes as totally. Probably the best, the best way I can put it.
[00:47:03] Speaker B: Yeah. What was, what was the best snack that she brought? I think we're all wondering.
[00:47:10] Speaker A: She brought sour jelly beans, which I love because I have a real sour tooth.
And she brought these like, like lemonade is like lemon, strawberry, like vanilla cookie sandwiches. Oh, that were just.
[00:47:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:32] Speaker A: Killer.
[00:47:33] Speaker B: Yeah, love that.
[00:47:36] Speaker A: Like, both of. I remember, I remember saying, like, we shouldn't. We should. I feel like we shouldn't like these, but they really work.
[00:47:45] Speaker B: I love that.
[00:47:46] Speaker C: I love that.
[00:47:48] Speaker B: Okay, so I, you know, taking it out a little bit. I'm curious because so on Rotten Tomatoes, right, they have two scores, which is the critic score and the audience score, and those oftentimes don't align with each other. So I'm curious how, as a journalist and critic, you work towards staying in. In a line with the general audience feel.
Because as you said, you saw the materialists, you know, however long it came out before, and then the general audience reception was the same, right. And you, you felt good knowing that that was you aligned. But have there been times when you don't align and do you, you know, how do you try and stay in touch with the general audience feel of things?
[00:48:35] Speaker A: That's a good question.
I've learned to really trust my gut.
Like my initial gut feeling about something. I think when I was younger and would watch like a show or a movie and. And would.
I was much more of a spectator. I would just like, let it wash over me and I would enjoy it. And then, like, as time went on and just the volume of things that I would consume went up and I think I'm kind of a late bloomer in this way because most of my life before was spent consuming all the music there was and so being able to really generate an automatic opinion because of the volume that I had, that I had consumed. Like, the more, it's like, really, like, the more you read, the more you listen to, the better you'll be able to kind of, like, draw contrasts and comparisons and be able to kind of, like, put something up against the other thing and talk about, like, what's working, what's not working, because one thing worked and this doesn't really work. Like, you have so much more of a frame of reference. And so I think I was kind of a late bloomer with, as far as, like, film in particular goes and, And a little bit TV because I'd spent so much time consuming so much other media. But now I.
I mean, a lot of it is just, like, I think what comes out when I'm trying to curate something, really, it's like, I'm just very much, like, in touch with my gut and, like, what it's saying. And I think I have a. You know, I'm. I nerd out a lot over, like, human behavior and how, you know, I try to read the room very, like, accurately.
I don't just, like, sit around saying, oh, well, I'm right about everything, you know, like, even though I might be writing alone in a room, I'm not alone in the room, really. Like, I'm not experiencing something in a vacuum. And I'm always interested in, like, how something's going to go down.
And I, like, I've had a number of moments in my life where I've been, like, where I've predicted the outcome of something, like, what people are going to think. So I trust myself a lot, I guess, in that I have an idea of how someone en masse are going to feel about a piece of media materialists being the most recent example and maybe Anora being another one. Because when that, when I saw that, I was just like, this is going to change someone. Someone's life. Like, someone being Mikey Madison. But, like, this is going to leave an impact. Like, I can't believe I'm seeing this, like, before, you know, the general audience, general public gets to see it and I have to sit with the secret.
Yeah, I hope that answers your question. Like, I, I just, like, try to always be, like, absorbing and observing. Like, that's, I guess, all I can, the best way I can really put it. Like, I, I'm.
I think emotionally I'm told a lot that I'm a very emotionally intelligent person.
And I think that really does, like, kind of key into what. What I think how people will feel about like a movie or.
[00:51:58] Speaker B: Yeah, it is, it is like a constant effort to be in tune with what general people are feeling because you can sometimes get lost up in your, you know, your sort of cyclone of. Of your own culture. We've been talking about this a lot in the interview of getting lost in your own algorithm and stuff like that. So it is. I do believe that it is an active thing to be listening to other people and be in touch with, you know, what other people are listening to and watching.
[00:52:27] Speaker A: Yeah, like, not to get political necessarily, but I, I just, I try to absorb motivations and reasons for what someone who I don't agree with politically, why they might feel the way that they do.
Like, what led them to feel this way and try to just sit with the fact that. That I feel differently and that they, like, we're not. We're never going to feel the same way. One thing I wish that audiences of all like, areas would, would do because, like, we did. We live in a such a polarized time in, like, every respect. And like, even with, you know, film and TV criticism now, I just, I feel like things have become even more polarized. Like something's either good or it's bad and there's like, no in between. And that's, that's just, that's. That might be online, but that's not, that's not the world that we live in.
And I like, the last thing I want to do as a human, in the world, certainly as a writer is just like, only listen to what I think first off and what people like me think about. About anything.
[00:53:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
Art is so subjective and it's, it's. We live in a world where, like, there is a general thought about something and if you go against that, it's. Your voice isn't necessarily heard. So I definitely feel that the, the.
[00:54:03] Speaker C: The so what that I wrote down.
[00:54:08] Speaker A: So what, that this is true exactly.
[00:54:11] Speaker C: Of like. Yeah, I don't know. It just that that stands out of like.
It's so easy to be like, I like this or I don't like this, and that's kind of the, the equivalent or maybe one tiny step further than sitting in a theater or on your beanbag chair listening to a cd, being like, yeah, I like this.
You know, it's like, I don't like that. But it's like, okay, but. But why? And all of a Sudden, Right. By just answering that why? Like. Like, you're immediately tapping into why Rachel is Rachel kind of thing, you know, which is really interesting because we talk about creative voice a lot and finding that artistic voice and the stories you want to tell and how you want to tell them.
And I think that that question, like, totally is, like, such a great catalyst of, like, hey, you want to figure out, like, how you want to tell this story? Well, then, like, just answer this question. You know, it's like, well, this is. This story is interesting.
[00:55:05] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:55:05] Speaker C: But, like, why? And immediately it'll be like, well, you know, I'm drawn to this dynamic between the mother and the daughter or something. It's like, whoa. Well, that already. It's a basketball movie. Like, how did you find this? You know?
So I was just. I was really drawn to that and just wanted to say thank you for kind of putting that into my brain, because I'm going to say that a lot now.
[00:55:26] Speaker A: Yay.
Oh, great. I love that. Yeah.
No, it's. It's a. It's like, it's classic.
It never gets old. Like, it's.
I even still have, like, the book that, you know, when I was in college, like, the main text that our, like, English. The English department passed around was a book called Writing Analytically.
And I haven't cracked it open, you know, since those days. But I also never let it go because, like, our professors would always source from. From that book.
And so what was like. So what that this is true was a. Like, a focal point within that. Like, I also don't know, like, where they learned it or if it was something that they came up with or, like, what. What is the history of that? But that it stuck with me because I remember in college, like, having a really hard time kind of answering those questions. Questions. Even though I was trying to think critically sometimes.
I truly, like, wasn't ever a star student, I don't think. Like, I've never really, like, I wasn't a bad student, but I've never really like, flourished in the academic spaces, even though people tell me that I'm. Oh, you're so intellectual. Like, oh, you're so smart. Like, you're such a smart writer. And I'm just like, I. You know, for me, I'm just, like, just trying to generate ideas about the world.
[00:56:52] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:56:53] Speaker A: And humanity. And sometimes I think academia is a little. A little too fenced in to really allow for that. Yeah.
[00:57:01] Speaker C: I just think it's such a positive way to have any sort of thought, you know, when it Comes from conversation, you know, and like, having the, I guess just understanding or awareness of, like, look like Wyatt and I might not think the same thing or believe this same.
Be on the same side of the coin kind of thing, but, like, I can still put myself to the side for a second and be like, okay, I fully understand where you're coming from, and like, just be okay with that, you know?
But I think that really does just. Just stem from conversation, the importance of like, that, that hand mixed, you know, Hey, I think you'd really like these 10 songs rather than me sitting on my Spotify and hitting shuffle of like, we think you'd like this. You know, it just, it goes back to that, like, active versus passive kind of take on. On life, you know.
[00:57:55] Speaker A: One thing, yeah, one thing that I've actually been kind of liking when, you know, I talk to the. The Gen Z's is there's like a real.
There's a real embrace of like a re. Embrace of physical media that. That's been nice to see. Like, I have a step niece and like, she's 20, almost 21.
And like, when she was here in LA, I took her around like, Amoeba Records, and I was like, hey, I'll get you like a stack of CDs if you want. Like, do you listen to. Listen to CDs? Like, is this stupid? And she was like, I only listen to CDs because, like, that's what she can play in her car. And also, I think she's just, just, you know, kind of got the ick over what Internet culture does to people. She's someone who I think really seeks out like, a genuine connection with anyone she's speaking with. And I think she almost like, has. I think she takes issue with the way that social media, like, kind of seems to and like, algorithms will like, divide people and put them in their own little zone. Like, yes. She said at one point, like, she's having a hard time meeting people in.
In her. On her college campus. And I was like, how is that possible? You're. You're in college. Like, it's the easiest time in your life, ostensibly to meet people. And she was like, yeah, well, everyone's on their phone. And I'm like, oh, yeah, no, that makes sense because everyone's just like, you know, algorithm into, you know, having blinders and they're not really talking to anyone.
Or, like, why would they go out when they could just completely, like, let the algorithm just curate their own, like just an experience on an auditory and visual level. So you know, why. Why. Why should you go out? But point. Point being is that, like, I've noticed that a lot of people much younger than myself are, like, really re. Embracing physical media because almost as if to, like, push back against how they're not, like, you know, feeling like they're getting an authentic, like, curation or even just, like, human experience. Yeah.
[01:00:07] Speaker B: People are starting to. The red flags are coming up. People are starting to realize that they. It gets repetitive, and they start realizing that it's not comfortable to be in that situation.
[01:00:19] Speaker C: Well, we.
[01:00:20] Speaker B: We've talked about so much, truly so much, whether it's how to defeat the algorithm or the. The way that you've. You've established your own voice as a critic and journalist, and we've talked about you meeting artists, and it's been super, super helpful. I know, for Luke and I just.
We are people who, through this podcast, we get to talk to so many cool people and get so many different wrecks for so many different things. And we specifically want to, with this podcast, you know, make it so that it's. It's not just about. We're not just talking about short films. We're not just talking about the way to make your first feature. We're talking to all sorts of people because you never know who's listening, and you never know what we can learn from them. So, Rachel, we really appreciate having you on. This has been such a thoughtful interview.
[01:01:08] Speaker A: Thank you for having me, even though I'm not a filmmaker.
[01:01:12] Speaker B: Well, it's our pleasure.
[01:01:13] Speaker C: Thank you, Rachel. It was awesome.
[01:01:15] Speaker A: Thank you, too.
[01:01:20] Speaker C: Did you learn something? I'm like your mom. Did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging. Make sure you follow us at the 5050fest on Instagram. And I think we have a TikTok. I don't know. Go check it out. Okay, bye.
