Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: The thing is, like, with independent film is, like, it's going to be very, very hard if you are the only engine, if it's only your belief and your vision and you are like the leader and that's it. To get something done when you have no resources, it's going to be very hard. Like you, I'm of the belief that you need to have multiple engines on a project if you want it to be successful or at least achieve the level of your ambition. And this project definitely allowed us to have multiple engines on it, like multiple people who were extremely invested in it getting made and getting made at a high level and willing to sacrifice their time and energy and creative effort to do so. And the structure of the project has really lended itself to that.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: I'm Luke Steinfeld.
[00:00:45] Speaker C: And I'm Wyatt Sarkisian.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: We made the 5050 podcast to support you on your filmmaking journey.
[00:00:50] Speaker C: 50% business, 50% creative.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Every Tuesday, a new how to.
[00:00:54] Speaker C: It's not every week that Luke and I get to really dig into a specific with a great filmmaker, but this week we get to chat with Elijah Davis, the creator of Three Colors Pan African. We talked with Elijah just before he won the audience award for best Narrative feature at Slamdance. Do we take credit for this?
Yes.
But seriously, Elijah's selflessness as a creator and director is really what shines through in this interview. That and lots more this week on the pod. Enjoy.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: We. We appreciate you coming on, man. I know you're in the midst of. Of a lot, having just finished this, this feature which you're able to send Wyatt and I, and I, I thoroughly enjoyed and am looking forward to kind of being able to dig into it.
[00:01:44] Speaker C: And Luke, we, we literally, we were just talking about how he finished the cut last night and sent it to us last night and we watched it.
[00:01:54] Speaker B: It's. This is very fresh.
[00:01:56] Speaker C: Yeah, this is very, very fresh. Okay. It's crazy.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I mean, I'd love to dig into that and are you able to speak about the festivals coming up and such, or. Okay, you are?
[00:02:08] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:02:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
So, I mean, I think just being able to dig into all of it and also just. I mean, you're still working a day job.
I'm not sure if you're able to dig into our kind of podcast episode library, but, like, we are all about talking to individuals like yourself who are very much following the dream, but also being realistic about surviving day to day, like being a person.
So it's incredible to. To see someone like you having achieved what you've done with this movie, which is amazing. And it's being saved clearly. Well with the circuit so far.
So thank you, man. Thank you for coming on. And also, you're a friend. I, I see you as a friend. We met through, through Zion.
[00:02:57] Speaker A: My God.
[00:02:57] Speaker B: And bumped into each other a lot at sc, at usc.
So it's, it's awesome to see what, what you're doing, you know.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: Thank you. I mean, that's very kind of you. I really appreciate that. Yeah, no, I, I dug into the episodes and again, like the 50% business, 50% creative element of filmmaking and like, like that is definitely a reflection of my day to day, just, you know, working my day job at wme where it is very, very business focused. And then also, you know, making this feature which. Trying to be as creative focused as possible. But, you know, that, that unfortunately, you know, dives into the business side of it as well pretty often. But yeah, definitely a reflection of, you know, like, how, like the way I'm engaging with the industry right now. So I think it's really cool, like the way you guys break this thing
[00:03:41] Speaker C: up and just to give a little bit of background. The film is called Three. Three Colors.
[00:03:46] Speaker A: Three Colors Pan African.
[00:03:47] Speaker C: Yeah, okay, Three Colors Pan African. And it has three chapters and they're all kind of interwoven, but act as sort of 40 minute on average sort of pieces.
And it's. I mean, it's incredible. Like, there's a lot to discuss there, but I want to get into. Because you obviously created and conceived of all of these ideas and then you led in other creatives throughout it to kind of put their, put their creative blueprint on it. But it's your baby, it's your idea. So I want to talk about just like how you conceived of it and then we can get into actually how you tangibly started making it and started looping in other people and things like that.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's based on this French film trilogy from the 90s, the Three Colors trilogy.
My foundation in why I want to be in this business, why I want to be in this industry is because I'm a huge cinephile. I love movies. I love movie history.
You know, in my free time. Like, that is what I do is, you know, just explore the canon.
And, you know, French film is something that really, just really grasped me from, you know, an early cinephile age. Like, it's something I've always been drawn to. And I really loved Kiyosaki's trilogy and, you know, wanted to.
There came A point, you know, was in this social club at USC called the D Society. Diaspora Society.
And it was like. It was like a social club.
But there came kind of a point in the organization's history where people started saying, hey, we should be using this not only as a social club, but also as a professional development and networking tool.
And in that moment, somebody said, hey, I have this project I'm working on.
It was something business based. I don't remember what it was exactly. And I thought, hey, it'd be cool if we could make a film that could kind of unite all of the black creatives in this club and at USC at large to work on a single project together.
Um, and for some reason, like, I don't know what it was, but, like, in that moment, I immediately went to three colors and was like, what if we. What if we transitioned the French flag into the Pan African flag and told these three stories? And it. It really was like a kismet moment where that. That kind of bang happened in 10 seconds. And, you know, I went. I was working on another set at the time with. With Max. Max Jenkins and the 4085 guys, which I think you guys know, or at least Luke maybe, you know, And I immediately was telling them all about that. I was so excited about it, got into it, and then, you know, it just. The idea never, you know, let me go from there. And it's. It's literally been, you know, the first thing I think about when I wake up. For three years.
[00:06:24] Speaker B: Yeah. I was just going to ask how long ago that was, but you said three years.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: Yeah, this would have been July going into our junior year.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: And was. That was. Was. It was D Society, the one that TJ did. Tj?
[00:06:35] Speaker A: TJ started that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And from there, you know, the project has always been about, you know, one person can't speak to the entirety of black existence. So it was never about, okay, Elijah is going to come in. Elijah wants to be a director. Elijah wants to be a producer. But I'm not going to come in and direct all of these three things because, you know, I just can't. I can't speak to the entirety of black existence. Like, we need to see it from all these different sides.
So the idea has always been how can we get as much creative as many different black creatives to put their, like, authorial stamp on the project as possible.
And for me, that meant, know, three directors, three writers, three cinematographers, like three producers who are kind of leading the charge on each of these individual projects. And then myself as well as, you know, kind of a larger team kind of overseeing that process.
[00:07:22] Speaker C: There's so much in. In the film about community, right. And about sometimes about resistance to community, about people who are.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: Who.
[00:07:31] Speaker C: Who think that they need to isolate themselves. Right. But then the moment they decide to break themselves down emotionally and let people in it, it weirdly reflects your experience in that club, Right? Because the whole point of this film was like, let's. Let's make something that we can all take part in, you know?
[00:07:48] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think you, you know, you go to film school and like, they. They want to tell you that it's, you know, it's about collaboration and, you know, it's about. It's not a competition. You know, you guys are all in this together. But like, I think the way in which it's structured like it is a competition because there are only so many spots and there's only so many resources that this billion dollar school is going to provide to you.
And because of that, there are limited opportunities for people to actually come together and work together because they're competing with each other. And I always wanted to make a project where the thing is with independent film is it's going to be very, very hard if you are the only engine, if it's only your belief and your vision, and you are, that's it. To get something done when you have no resources, it's going to be very hard.
I'm of the belief that you need to have multiple engines on a project if you want it to be successful or at least achieve the level of your ambition. And this project definitely allowed us to have multiple engines on it, multiple people who were extremely invested in it getting made and getting made at a high level and willing to sacrifice their time and energy and creative effort to do so.
You know, the structure of the project has really lended itself to that.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: How there's, there's. And I wied and I spoke before and we were just saying, like, this conversation can go in so many different ways because we could talk for a lot of hours just breaking down each chapter and even just the first couple scenes. But like, I guess taking it just further back to kind of this creation phase.
What did that look like? Because as you said in film school, it was. It's very much individual and you're writing in your room and you're making stuff alone or with the crew, but it's your singular vision. Like, how did you go about in the early phases of this project, kind of putting the pieces Together?
[00:09:43] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, the project started with the concepts.
You know, we have these three colors of the flag, we have these three themes.
And my idea was I want to basically find a bunch of different writers to pitch stories within the thematic framework that had been designed. So we have Red Liberation, we have Black Community, we have Green Prosperity. And I wanted writers to come in and pitch and say, hey, I have a story that I feel like fits within this confine. And then myself, as well as the producing team at that time, we're going to kind of shape this experience around these different pitches, basically selecting the three chapters that are going to work within the confines of the.
Of the themes, but also kind of work together to tell kind of a larger story.
So interviewed a bunch of different writers who just came in with their pitches, kind of read their past work, and just found three really exciting scripts or exciting ideas that I was excited to develop into scripts. And then from there, worked directly with the writers on drafts notes. We got them to a place where we were, you know, excited about them and felt like we could take them out. And then from there, we went in and, you know, hired, you know, two directors to come onto the project.
You know, myself knowing that I was going to direct one of them.
[00:11:01] Speaker C: How much. I mean, were you just learning so much from the people you ended up hiring? Like, you all have such different styles, you know, like, I'm sure by being a sort of, like, producer or, like, development type figure for these other people, making sure that it all thematically, you know, fits together, thinking of the thing as a whole piece of. Are you just learning so much from these people who have a completely different style than you?
[00:11:25] Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah. I mean, working with these other directors, like, knowing that you want to be a director, but working with them in a producer capacity.
And, you know, the other two directors, they were in, you know, MFA at usc, so, you know, they're a little bit older than myself. They have more of that experience than myself. Like, it was, you know, just such a pleasure to be able to watch them work and, you know, like, see what they were capable of creating. Because I, you know, I'd gone first. I. We created Red first, so I'd already kind of done my thing, so just to get to see them watch. And then we're coming into.
For additional context, there is a prologue and an epilogue in the film, which I also directed. And that took place. We shot that after Black. So just getting to see Alison Waite, the director of Black Work, and see her how she manages the set and how she deals with the crew in pre production.
It added to my process because, you know, I was going through, you know, a similar process just on a little bit of a delayed basis, just like a little bit after that. So, you know, I got to kind of pick and choose different things that totally, you know, like, she was bringing to the process to add to my own process. And then Tyler came in, you know, shot Green after, you know, pretty much the rest of the film was done. You know, we were already in, like, a very progressive state. Like, we had cuts of the film and could kind of see, okay, this is two thirds of what the film is going to be. Now you got to come in and knock us out of the park.
[00:12:44] Speaker C: Had he seen. So he saw the first two cuts and kind of allowed that to inform Green in a way?
[00:12:49] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And he had been, you know, very, very closely developing the script with the writer, you know, alongside myself for a long time. So it was. There was already a very clear idea of what it was going to be.
But he kind of got to see, like, you know, it's almost like you get to see two thirds of your film before you make a third of it. I mean, that. I do think that that's, you know, was greatly beneficial to the. To the process. And he came in and killed it.
[00:13:11] Speaker B: I would say that can't hurt.
[00:13:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
So.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: So you. You said that you made Red first.
Was that a fundraising play? Was that some sort of proof of play where it's like, okay, maybe this is a standalone thing, and what was your idea or your. Your thought process behind that?
[00:13:31] Speaker A: That's what it became, and I'll explain it. I don't. I don't want to take credit for it, but that is absolutely what it became.
The idea was we're doing this crowdfunding from the beginning, and we're raising this X amount of money to do all three of them.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: But can you mention how much you guys were looking to raise?
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, it was very much like a learning experience wanting to do this professionally. I very much come from doing something independently and breaking all of the rules and just lying, cheating, and stealing our way to make this independent film. And it became clear, like, the ambition that we had with this, like, we're gonna have to, you know, be. Go. Go along with a little bit more. You couldn't.
[00:14:12] Speaker C: You couldn't lie and cheat as much as you have in the past.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: Yeah, it's just too many people involved and too large of a process to. To do that. And, like, you know, what we ultimately hope the film becomes, you know, within, you know, a larger cultural sphere. Like it just became clear that we had, we had to do this the right way. And unfortunately, like a lot of times that doing it the right way means more money out of independent filmmakers pockets, which is brutal, but it's just the reality. So we came into it thinking, hey, we're going to shoot this entire thing for $40,000. And we kind of raised that initially, but just in the pre production process of Red, it became clear that that's only going to be enough to do one of them.
And so it became, okay, we're going to use basically all the money that we've raised for the entire feature on Red.
Then we'll have a third of the film, you know, we'll be able to cut trailers off of this, we'll be able to, you know, utilize it as, you know, a tool in order to raise the money for the rest of them. So we absolutely did not go into the process thinking, you know, this is a proof of concept, but it essentially became a proof of concept to raise money for the rest of the film.
[00:15:16] Speaker B: That's, that's a lot of pressure as a young director who's also kind of playing, I don't want to say showrunner, but like executive producer, like producer, creator in the total to know that like, okay, we're gonna put all the, all the marble, like all the, literally all the chips on the table with this first one and like, hopefully this works. Did that lead to a massive amount of stress or a crazy amount of prep for you of like this script's never done. What did that look like? Or was it like you thrive in chaos and you love the pressure and it made you great.
[00:15:53] Speaker A: I do like pressure. I do like a deadline. Like I think that that's essential to getting things done. But um, it didn't, it didn't add as much pressure to me because I've always just believed that this film was going to get made. Like I, I, I can, I can pinpoint two, two times that I remember very strongly thinking, wait, this might not actually get made. But other than that, again, you know, I, I, I think about this every day. I work on this every day. And like, I've never, I've always just been very headstrong in the idea that, you know, this is going to exist, it's just a matter of time.
So like, I didn't feel the pressure from that perspective because I knew that I was going to do anything that it was going to take in Order to figure it out. It was just going to be a matter of time. And that time ended up being beneficial to the project. The initial impetus of this idea was we're going into senior year, we're really developing these things, and we want to have a finished feature film by graduation.
Just Green to people.
It's been a year and a half since then.
I couldn't be more lucky or grateful that that's not what happened. Because the film would just be so much lesser if we had not, you know, been forced to put more time into developing the script, you know, forced to, you know, put more time into, you know, the process of creating the film. Because every single delay that came across the project led to, you know, greater things. You know, more people stepping up and wanting to be a part of it. You know, being able to attach, you know, actors, work with. With, you know, a real casting director like those. Those elements, you know, were never in the initial plan. You know, it was always going to be a scrappy, you know, independent thing, and it very much still is.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: But
[00:17:23] Speaker A: the extra time to marinate with what the project is allowed us to raise the level of what it's going to be.
[00:17:32] Speaker C: How do you push through when you have those moments of when you feel like it's a moment of no return and you're not able to persevere? What are you telling yourself and who are you relying on, and what are those conversations like within the production?
[00:17:50] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it definitely wasn't an internal thing.
It was the team around me just being very supportive. I remember one of the moments was very early on in the process, and the producer of Green, Asar Saint Lamont, or one of the producers of Green, just said to me, hey, we're already proud. We've already come so far. We're already so proud of you, Elijah. You got to keep it pushing. We're going to figure this out.
And I think working on this project, one of the things that's been really valuable and beneficial to me is a lot of the people who ended up working on it were MFAs at USC. So they were a little bit older than myself, had a little bit more life experience, and very much acted as big brothers and sisters to me throughout this process.
Their guidance has been invaluable to just instilling me with the confidence that we can really do this. And even just from a business perspective, just how to handle myself.
They are incredibly and endlessly supportive of helping me and guiding me and how to navigate tricky situations that we never had before. So it Definitely has been all about the team. And again, I think it comes back to the idea that you have to make something where multiple people are bought into seeing it succeed. It can't be about you. It has to be about the team.
And because this project has always been about the team, it meant that there was a support system to lean back on in the difficult times.
[00:19:19] Speaker B: How did you actually go about showing that? Because you can tell people this isn't just about me. How did you show that to them and make them believe it?
[00:19:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that it's like, whenever I refer to the film, I always refer to it as our film. You know what I mean? And that's always been important to me. Even when other collaborators are talking about my film, it's. It's always, to me, about our film.
And I think that. That. That, first and foremost, like, is an immediate, like, signifier to people that, like, hey, this is not. I'm not working in service of somebody else's vision. Like, this is my film.
And I think that's what it is. It's like. It's like having that autonomy over what you're working on is essential to, you know, wanting to see it through because, you know, we're all working for each other, like, as opposed to, you know, everybody working for one person or, you know, you know, doing this, you know, to elevate somebody else. I, you know, I think that it always has been about, you know, the project has been about, you know, how can we. How can the tide rise so that we all come up with it together?
Yeah, I think it is about kind of crafting this autonomy over individual pieces of the project, and then also, like, you know, having people, you know, take ownership over it.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: You. You mentioned that there were, like, two moments where you thought, maybe this isn't going to happen.
Can you. Can you dig into that? Like, can you talk about those? If it's too much, don't worry about it.
[00:20:45] Speaker A: But, yeah, I'm not going to dive into specifics on it, but, I mean, both of them were surrounding, you know, fundraising elements of it, and, you know, realizing, you know, the hardest part, the
[00:20:54] Speaker C: business side, the worst.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: The worst.
It sucks to ask people for money, but, I mean, doing stuff independently, I mean, that is what the business is.
Yeah. Both surrounding fundraising things and just staring at the face of, okay, this is what it's realistically going to take, and wrapping my head around, okay, we have to go out and do this now if we want this to get finished.
[00:21:20] Speaker B: And
[00:21:22] Speaker A: those moments were the only moments where I ever doubted, like, hey, is this. Is this possible? Are we, you know, are we doing too much here? Like, you know, is this going to, you know, take much longer than I expected, etc. Etc. And, you know, I think that it was the support system of the team that we had built. And then also, you know, having already done some of the work and saying, we, you know, we can't abandon it now because we've already gotten this far, you know, meant that there was no turning back.
[00:21:48] Speaker B: What did you learn from that? That fundraise, that first re. I mean, I'm. I'm sure I confident you fundraised before for shorts and that kind of thing, or crowdfunded. But, like, what did you learn from this round that you'll bring with you to the next time you do this, or you. Like, I'm never fundraising again. Like, it's gonna be all out of pocket. Like, what do you.
Where's your head at with that?
[00:22:10] Speaker A: I think for me, like, it. It.
In the beginning, my strategy was literally just, you know, like, quantity. Like, I'm going to reach out to everybody I know and ask them for $20 so that we can get to this, you know, to this level. And, like, I mean, that. That was fine. Like, you know, people came around and were very supportive, but, like, to actually, like, you know, raise the real money that we needed to raise, like, it needed to be more about, like, you know, smaller, like less total people and in larger chunks. And I think that the big strategy for that was, you know, just understanding the film so deeply and, like, what we wanted to say so that we could convey that effectively to, you know, whoever we're pitching to so that, you know, they believe in it. You know, they get excited about it. They can see, you know, they can see the vision for what this is going to be, and they want to see it exist.
So, I mean, I think a big, you know, really helpful element of it is, like, when I'm talking to people in public, like, I'm constantly pitching the film. You know, I mean, like, I don't mean, like, in public on the street. Like, I'm talking to people about the film, but, like, you know, I mean, like, if I'm out at a friend's house or, you know, at work, like, and people say, hey, what's going on? Like, I'm constantly, like, pitching the film, just not, not, not, like, consciously as a form of practice, but, like, because that is what's going on in my life. And, like, that is what I care about. Like, I'm constantly just, like, cycling through this pitch to the point where I, like, I have it down. Like, I can, you know, spit it out. I've done it a thousand times. Totally.
And, you know, I think that, like, those moments are opportunities to, like, hone your ability to talk about your work, you know, in a way that can be beneficial because, you know, you're constantly just, like, selling yourself and your work.
[00:23:55] Speaker C: Do you, do you have a specific example of that? Of, like, something you were saying at the beginning, that you were like, okay, I can tell this is not landing with people, so I'm going to frame it a different way. Or on the other side, like something that you started saying that you're like, oh, like that. I see that that's something that people are really latching onto. Like, that's given me an extra 20 bucks there. You know, like, I, I, and I, I get it, right, because it's such an unnatural process to ask for money for, for a creative, you know, but then to make it a little more natural by, you know, when you're hanging out with friends, just talking about it, because it is naturally what you're working on, you know. So has there been anything like that that you've really grasped onto?
[00:24:38] Speaker A: I'm trying to think of specific. I don't think I can think of a specific example, but what I can think about is, like, like, knowing the audience that I'm pitching to. You know, I mean, like, if I'm talking to somebody who understands and enjoys film and film history, then, like, the angle of it is going to be through Kiyoski. If I'm talking to, you know, I, you know, just like one of my friends, you know, the film is, it's, it's a story about a football player, story about an immigrant, story about, you know, sitcom star. And, you know, I approach it from a different angle as opposed to talking about it through the Kielowski. You know, maybe I'm mentioning that, but I'm not sure. I'm not siphoning it through that.
And yeah, I think that that, that is. I don't have a specific example of, like, oh, I learned this and, like, brought it to this. But, like, it definitely has been about, like, knowing who I am talking to and, like, the way in which I explain the story.
[00:25:28] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I love that.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: There's, I mean, clearly, with, with the prologue and the epilogue and, and throughout, there's this, this theme of, like, childhood or some sense of innocence. Can you talk about that? Like, what, what were you kind of getting at with, with Children and childhood in the film.
[00:25:51] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I think this is one of the things that came about as a part of the process as opposed to being one of the initial intentions.
One of the things we realized kind of, you know, as we were already deep into the process, is that, you know, each of our stories kind of starts with a television screen. And it starts oftentimes with a child watching a television screen and, you know, learning and acting based off of what they see on the TV screen. And, you know, that's always been something. You know, the film has always been about identity and representation on screen.
And it kind of just naturally came about that that was our way into each of the stories.
I'm extremely. Like, it's impossible to be completely technologically averse, you know, in the world that we live in. But I'm very, like, technologically wary. Like, I think it's terrifying, you know, the way in which the world is heading in that sense.
And I think that the film is very much a reflection of that anxiety of, like, you know, this return to this sort of childhood, you know, innocence separate from the tv. And I think one of the biggest, you know, ideas of the film is, you know, is blackness. What you see on the screen, what is portrayed by these forces, you know, whether these forces be black or white, you know, whether these forces be, you know, a network led by, you know, a bunch of, you know, white people or, you know, a film told by a bunch of black people. Like, is this what we see up on screen, Blackness? Or is black? Does blackness exist, you know, as we live it in every day? And I think that that's a nuanced answer. And I think that the film at least attempts to, you know, kind of show those two disparate sides, you know, where, you know, where, you know, blackness, especially from a child's perspective, exists in the world. And then how. Then that becomes morphed and changes when, you know, you see yourself up on screen and you see yourself reflected. And how does that change your behavior? How does that change the way in which you act within the world?
[00:27:40] Speaker C: You can even tell just by the way that you can see. I mean, in the beginning, you see dialogue happening on the screen within the screen, right? And it's. It's very much sitcom dialogue and. And lots of, like, explanations and things.
[00:27:53] Speaker A: This isn't a movie.
[00:27:54] Speaker C: You can see the kids throughout the.
[00:27:57] Speaker B: The.
[00:27:58] Speaker C: You know, one of the three actually saying lines from the. The actual sitcom. I mean, it's clearly intentional, but I just. I wanted to point it out because it's It's a good device. Definitely.
[00:28:11] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it digs into this idea that I got really into when we were starting this called representation theory. It was like a black cultural critic named Stuart hall who kind of came up with this idea. And the way I get into it is like, have you ever seen a kangaroo?
Have either you guys ever seen a kangaroo?
[00:28:30] Speaker B: No.
[00:28:31] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I'm.
[00:28:33] Speaker A: Yeah, but you know exactly what a kangaroo is. And the, you know what a kangaroo is because of the media in which you consume that tells you what a kangaroo is. So therefore he then applies that to the idea of black people. So if you're not engaging with black people on a day to day basis, then your idea of what a black person is comes from, you know, the media you read or watch, you know, whatever you ingest that tells you what these people are.
And, you know, that, that, you know, kind of became the guiding thesis for, you know, what this is. Because, you know, not only is it people who don't engage with black people, you know, in mass on the regular, but it also becomes, you know, black children and, you know, just black people in general who, you know, see this reflection of themselves on screen and start to question inwardly, you know, is this who I am?
[00:29:17] Speaker C: There's, there's a lot there. And the first thing I think about is, is when you're making it, you know, how much do you have the audience in mind?
[00:29:25] Speaker B: Right?
[00:29:26] Speaker C: Because obviously you referenced that, that representation theory, which is a lot of, you know, white people seeing black people on screen and thinking a specific way because they don't, maybe they don't live near black people or have a lot of that in their lives. So how much are you thinking like, oh, like, you know, do I want a white person to see us or do I want a black person to see this and think about this? And you know, it provokes thought and conversation. So like, what are, what are those thoughts?
[00:29:53] Speaker B: Like the one, because you saying that, Wyatt. The shot that comes to mind, Elijah, is when the, the greens like all break the fourth wall, that moment. And I think that was because that's a great question. Why, like being hyper aware of the audience. Because clearly the question or one of the large questions you're trying to answer with the film is this kind of theory or at least trying to like dig into.
But that, that, that's one of those shots that comes to mind.
[00:30:24] Speaker C: And if you wouldn't mind Elijah talking about that shot a little bit, because obviously our, our viewers haven't seen the film. So we can we can enter that question through that shot?
[00:30:32] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that shot. So that's the beginning of the third chapter. The third chapter is Green follows the theme of prosperity. And it's called Meet the Greens. It follows a sitcom star who is on this kind of struggling black family network sitcom where the studio comes in and says, hey, we need to boost ratings. And we're going to do that by kind of devolving the show into Race's caricature. And this first kind of scene that we're seeing, it's a. And Tyler Will, the director, will, you know, describe it as an Afro surrealist film.
And, you know, this is kind of our first inkling of that. In the beginning of the film, you know, we get just a, you know, it plays straight. It's just a sitcom scene. And then the character stop talking, you know, all look at the cameras, gaze directly into the audience, break the fourth wall, and then, boom, we're in reality and we're actually seeing the actor from the TV show at this cafe with his family.
So it's kind of got that, you know, bending element to it.
That is the description. I forgot the question. Sorry.
[00:31:28] Speaker C: Just how aware of the audience are you?
And this question is getting pretty meta as we go into it. As you as a director, producer, creator, how much is the audience and the people who are going to be watching the film part of the conversation? In terms of the creative, I think that's tough.
[00:31:48] Speaker A: And I don't think that there's one answer to that. You know what I mean? Because I think it probably. Well, it definitely differs person to person, like creator to creator, but I think it also differs, like, moment to moment.
I'm very much a believer that, like, you can only intend one thing and it's going to be, you know, flipped into 100 different things by, you know, the audience. Just, you know, based on the idea that we all have different experiences in our lives.
Whatever we see on screen is going to be a reflection of, you know, our existence and the way in which we see the world. And like, hopefully, you know, it has the ability to change. Change these things. I truly do believe that, you know, film does that, have.
[00:32:26] Speaker C: That.
[00:32:26] Speaker A: Have that power. But I don't think that you can, at least for me, like, I don't think that you can do anything other than have an intention with what you're trying to. With what you're trying to portray, because I don't think you have the control over, you know, the way people are going to perceive it. So I think it's an inward thing, as opposed to. I'm intending to do this so that people think this.
[00:32:50] Speaker B: Well, I mean, the.
The. The way the Greens speak, at least at the beginning, is. Is that very classic sitcom, like, perfect utopian kind of world situation. And like, that up against, like, how the characters, for example, in that first chapter are speaking. It feels so real. Like, it sounds actually talk, you know, and so, I mean, was that. I. I assume perhaps that was a conscious. Like, I want this film to be re. Like, I want this to sound real. You know, I mean.
[00:33:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I. I think that's a stylistic choice. Absolutely.
That. I think that's also just, like, naturally, like what, you know, the, you know, collaborators and the actors coming in and understanding what this is and understanding the movie that they're in, like. And then, you know, playing to that. I think, you know, is a large element of that.
[00:33:44] Speaker C: Yeah. Pairing that. That naturalism with the heightened sitcom speak. I'm curious specifically with writing the. Because I'm a big sitcom fan, and it was. I mean, the actors were great, too.
[00:33:55] Speaker B: They were so good.
[00:33:56] Speaker C: It's a very specific skill, as Luke and I talk about all the time, to. To act comedy. Right. To. To do that. And especially, you know, with you're. You're mimicking a sort of sitcom that at least we don't. We don't see it as much. You know, it's. It's. The networks are making fewer and fewer of those sitcoms, and you're like, how do you. How do you write something like that? And then how do you. I don't know if you had conversations with the actors about, like, the. Were you watching, like, sitcoms as. As sort of like a.
A tester for how you would actually go about it or what was that like?
[00:34:35] Speaker A: I didn't write Green, nor did I direct it, so I can't necessarily speak to that 100%.
But obviously, I was involved in developing the script, and I know that the writer is a big fan of sitcom sitcoms, has seen the way in which sitcoms have been mishandled over time by these kind of larger forces who take something like Urkel, for example, and bring him from a side character to this kind of buffoon that's up in everybody's faces.
And, you know, that. That. That is stemmed across the history of sitcoms.
So, like, I know it comes from that place of seeing how these things have happened, you know, in real life, in, you know, culture and black culture over through history, and then, you know, transmuting that into something that's modern.
[00:35:24] Speaker C: We'll be right back.
[00:35:27] Speaker B: Are you sick and tired of spending months on short films that get seen by just your uncle?
Are you sad and bored of editing all the time and all that footage for just 10 views? Well, now's the time to change that. Submissions for the 5050 Comedy Fest are open now. Get your work seen by professionals who can actually advance your filmmaking career. Not your uncle, unless your uncle happens to be at a top tier talent agency like CAA UTA or wme.
Check out the episode description for the submission link or head to filmfreeway.com and search for 5050 Comedy. 5050 Comedy is on May 3rd. Submitting to 5050 Comedy may lead to money, fame, fast cars, boats, planes, helicopters, cyber trucks and lifelong friendships. 5050 comedy is on May 3rd. We look forward to seeing you there at 5050 comedy May 3rd. Your uncle is not invited unless he works at a top tier talent agency like CAA UTA. WME May 3rd. 5050 comedy May 3rd. 5050 Comedy May 3rd. We look forward to watching your comedic short film May.
Three years with the project.
That's, that's not a short amount of time.
A lot has, has happened. You've. You've definitely experienced a lot. Like you said, you graduated from college, you have a job.
This, this project, I assume, has like, grown and evolved with you.
Is it a relief? Like, was that the final cut last night? Or how, how close are you to kind of letting it out?
[00:36:51] Speaker A: Yeah, well, it's funny, I was talking with Wyatt about this briefly beforehand, but we, we essentially exported the film, you know, in order to create the DCP yesterday. And like, it didn't feel like a relief, you know, as much as you would think it would. Like, just because I know that there is so much work.
[00:37:08] Speaker C: That's just another step in the process, you know?
[00:37:11] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, no, it is.
[00:37:12] Speaker B: It really is.
[00:37:13] Speaker A: Like, it, it wasn't like the championship moment where, you know, we're all relieving and then tomorrow we have nothing to do. Like, I know that as soon as we are off this podcast, I'm calling me man right away because we have stuff to do for Monday.
So, like, it didn't feel like, okay, this is, this is the one moment where, you know, everything is finally released. Like, it feels like, as why I just described, like another step in the process. And I don't, I don't think that's a bad thing. You know, I mean, like, I love doing this and like, I have never had the ability to market a feature film or distribute a feature film so I'm excited to, like, dive into, you know, the reality of what that's going to be and, you know, explore it and learn from it.
[00:37:52] Speaker B: Yeah, There we go. Yeah. It's the truth, right? That's. I was going to say a sad reality, but it's not sad. It's like you completed this amazing thing and it's. It's just a step in.
[00:38:02] Speaker C: We've talked a lot about how, you know, it's what's natural to you. You know, the talking about the film, the.
Even though fundraising isn't natural to you, that talking about it is and bonding with people about it is. And then, you know, even though maybe the festival circuit isn't the most natural thing, you know, working hard is. Right.
[00:38:22] Speaker B: So you're. You're. But now. Now's the fun part, too, of. Of sharing the. The film with people, with. With audiences, you know.
[00:38:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:30] Speaker A: And I wouldn't. I wouldn't say that the festival part is unnatural, per se. I think it's just like, I don't have the experience with it. I mean, so I'm excited to, you know, to experience it.
[00:38:39] Speaker C: Totally, totally. What has that been like? Because you obviously, you got into slam dance, huge film festival, you know, did. Did you feel happy then or like.
[00:38:50] Speaker A: Yes, yes. Okay, I did. I got that call. I got that call in work, like, while I was at work, and I wasn't expecting, you know, I wasn't expecting it. It was, you know, X amount of days before the official announcement was coming out. So it was just a random number calling my phone. And I just got an intense rush of just so much excitement because that was the first step in validating that, okay, this is going to be somewhat of a real thing. And obviously we're gonna have to work to make it even more of a real thing. But we have this foundation that we know that we have that we can build off of.
And that was just so much validation for just all of the effort and work that has been put in by so many different people that, okay, we're going to receive some sort of positive feedback back from somebody who doesn't know us and, you know, is completely outside of the project.
I think it's just a boost of confidence for, you know, the continued work on this that, you know, we're doing something that, you know. You know, we've always believed is good, but, you know, maybe somebody else believes it's good to know.
[00:39:48] Speaker B: Well, what did it feel like? Kind of. I mean, did you. Did you call these other directors immediately? Did you Wait till after work.
[00:39:55] Speaker C: Like, did you have to go into a conference room? Like, were you, like, screaming? Like, did you. Did you tell your boss? Like, I. I need to know all the details.
[00:40:04] Speaker B: There.
[00:40:05] Speaker A: There is like a. There's like a. Like a stairwell outside of my work, and it's like, there's like this one pocket of, like, outside area. And it's like, literally probably like 4x4. And it's pretty much the only place to go, like, if you want any sort of privacy. And then there's still people coming in and out of it. And then I just, like, immediately went there and I was like, wow, again, it's like, not a nice view at all, but it's like, at least it's outside. And I was just, like, looking out, like, oh, this is so awesome.
My closest day to day on this project is Mingman and Dami Olatunji.
And so anytime anything happens, they're the first people I go to and we discuss things.
And then I wanted to make sure that I told Allison and Tyler, the other two directors together, so I just said, hey, can we hop on the phone during lunch? And we all got on the phone and talked through it. And just like, the excitement hearing from them was just like a super validating experience for me because again, like, I look at them as like, my big brother and my big sister. Like, they are, you know, absolutely mentors to me. And when. When I hear pride coming from them like that just. I mean, that's everything for me like that, you know, I mean, like, the
[00:41:10] Speaker C: idea that you get to share it with them must make it so much more special, you know, like, for me, I'm like, ah, the moment you get to tell your co directors, that's the best moment.
[00:41:21] Speaker B: Right?
[00:41:22] Speaker A: So cool. Yeah. Literally just walking, Walking around, outside of my work, like, just walking through the street and, like, just on the phone with them and just like, I could. I could like, palpably feel the excitement, like, through the phone and, like, talking to them and like, yeah, it was just that moment of validation that was just really special.
[00:41:39] Speaker C: It's amazing.
[00:41:40] Speaker B: Was there a moment for you just taking a kind of a big step outward here?
Just. Just you as like a filmmaker, do you. Do you have, like, a moment back in the day where you're like. Or if it was at USC or something, or if it was at the Society, where it was like, this is the path for me. Or if it was last night, you know, like.
Or phone call in the stairwell.
[00:42:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I thought I wanted to be a phone critic. For a really long time. I got into this because I would love going to the movies. And they're like, literally, again, there came a day where I was like, hey, I really enjoy this so much. But, like, I can't really put into words why, what? Like, I can't express why this movie is exciting me in the way that it is. So I, like, went on like a rabbit hole of like, YouTube film criticism and just like, coming to understand, like, how can you express your feelings about a movie through, you know, the stylistic elements of it?
And that led me to creating this movie review blog on Instagram called Davis Movie Reviews in high school, which I was super embarrassed about, didn't tell any of my friends about, kept it hidden on the Internet and within all these group chats where I just had all these people online who I've still never met to this day that I would just talk movies with. And finding that space of community was really important for me and finally became comfortable, you know, sharing it with people. And people thought it was the coolest thing ever. And I was, like, shocked.
[00:43:10] Speaker B: I was like, wow.
[00:43:11] Speaker A: Like, I felt like. I felt like such like a loser. Like, I was like, I'm like, in like, these Internet circles, like DM group chats, like, like talking to these random strangers about movies. Like, I think this is like, super lame and like, don't want anyone to know about it. But then, you know, started telling people about, you know, my passion for it. And, you know, people, you know, really latched onto it and thought it was really cool. And which. Which was, you know, just a really big watershed moment for me that, like, like, hey, like, this is something that I can get into and like, I'm not going to be, like, looked down upon. Like, this is something that people, people will think is cool. And, you know, from there I got into a program at usc.
It was like a six week, like, filmmaking high school course.
You know, met people that I still work with.
[00:43:52] Speaker B: Was that the summer program? Was it a. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:43:57] Speaker A: Summer program. Fully not of my own initiative. Like, my mom signed me up for it and she was like, you should do this. And I got in because of my reviews, I guess.
[00:44:04] Speaker C: Because of your blog.
[00:44:06] Speaker B: Yeah, because the blog.
[00:44:07] Speaker A: Yeah, literally.
And met a crazy story. Is actually one of the guys who was in that class with me when we were in high school. I was 15, 16 years old. His film is one of the other narrative features at Slamdance, which is insane. Insane moment.
[00:44:22] Speaker C: That's awesome.
[00:44:22] Speaker A: Huge. Yeah, he's great. We worked on a project Together and now kind of full circle. It's pretty cool.
But being there in that environment and it was very much like for USC people, like a 310 where it's like there's three cycles of films and you're crewing on other people's films and then you're directing one of them.
The class was structured around that same structure and just engaging in that process. That was the first time I'd ever actually made a film as opposed to just watching them and consuming them and just fell in love with it from there. I mean, just the process of it. The idea that we all have these ideas and we're all going to help each other bring them to reality. Like, it wasn't just the directing of it. Like at that point I thought I wanted to be a dp. So it was, it was the idea of like, you know, crewing and, you know, creating these images, you know, with like minded people who actually cared about movies that, you know, got me so excited about it. And at that point I switched from hey, I want to be a film critic to DP and then eventually became director.
[00:45:22] Speaker B: What's, what's your favorite part of the process?
And I mean, it sounds like that's evolved. As you just said you wanted a film critic to DP to director. But like you also write and after spending three years on a project, is there one piece of the process that you're like, oh my gosh, like, I love working with actors or I love being in the editing bay, or I love working with a composer. Like, what is that piece for you?
[00:45:47] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's something that's less collaborative, but it's like ideating the visual language of the film. Absolutely. Like I get so excited when I, like, I'm very much like, I want to, you know, pre in pre production, like, you know, pre shoot this in my head and pre cut it in my head. And I think that those moments of inspiration, like, are like some of the most satisfying when you're working on a film when you're kind of piecing it together in your head. And it's not something for me where I'm like sitting down and like, hey, you know, this shot needs to go here, this shot needs to go here. Like, it very much feels like it's, you know, of the moment. Like I'm thinking of these things on the fly. And like, I think that's, that's what it is maybe is like, because they're moments of creative inspiration that come about naturally, that it gets me so excited.
So, you know, ideating on stylistically, like, what I want to achieve visually and sonically as well, I think that's a big part of it.
And especially when that doesn't come from sitting down and saying, here's block A, here's block B, here's boxy. Like, when it comes from either being inspired by a film or, you know, I'm walking through the street just thinking about the movie and, you know, it comes about. That's my favorite part of the process, for sure.
[00:46:52] Speaker C: It's awesome. Are you able to lift your head up at this point and see, you know, are you thinking of other projects? Are you talking with other creative people about what the next step is, or are you still just in Three Colors World?
[00:47:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm definitely. I feel like if you're a creative, you're either developing six projects at once or like, I can't do anything but this one thing. Yeah, And I'm very much in the. I can't do anything but this one thing for sure.
Like, even when I wasn't. Because, you know, I wasn't writing these things, you know, I wasn't, you know, directing these things, you know, these other chapters.
I still was just so focused on, you know, making sure that they were the best that they could be.
That's.
[00:47:33] Speaker B: We.
[00:47:33] Speaker A: There was like a down moment, like, about a year ago where Dami and I, one of the producers, as well as he co wrote, you know, the prologue and epilogue with me.
We started speccing a memoir that we really like, and we got like 100 pages into it.
So we're going to dive back into that as soon as we're done with this and then from there, see what we can do with that. But also, I'm excited to just start ideating and start finding the next thing that's just going to take a hold of me and become the thing that I become obsessed with.
[00:48:03] Speaker B: How has the agency world being there on the daily.
Like you just said, your 247 mind is in this project.
How has that world, if at all, influence or informed your work as a creative, just in general, not only a director or producer, but everything. Your mindset?
[00:48:28] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I think that the biggest thing that I've learned from working in the agency is, like, how to carry yourself and conduct yourself professionally in the film industry.
You know, hearing. I think the most valuable thing, you know, you get as an assistant is, like, you're hearing your boss speak on the phone and how the agents deal with studios, how they pitch their own clients, you know, how they're dealing with lawyers, how they're dealing with managers. Like, like, you know, getting the ins and outs of that process is, like, extremely valuable to how I want to be treated in the future because I know what these conversations are going to be about and how they're going to be navigated.
I think that. That. And then just looking up to your boss as a role model and mentor of how to carry yourself professionally and how to engage in business in a way that's both practical and effective, but also the right way, I think, is the most valuable element I've gotten out of it, for sure. And then just meaning to people, of
[00:49:25] Speaker C: course, said very, very well.
Now we ask this question to all of our guests, and it is intentionally vague. So take it how you want. What is the dream?
[00:49:40] Speaker A: Two, two fold. I would say my parents have always been extremely, extremely supportive of me pursuing a career in the arts. A career in the arts is extremely treacherous and difficult, and nothing is guaranteed.
That said, they've always had my back. They've always understood that this is something that took hold of me when I was a kid and never looked back on. And they've done anything that they can to support making that dream a reality for myself through instilling values, but also just saying that, hey, this is okay. This is something to go for. I think the dream for me, for them, was always put your kid in a better position than your. Than our parents put us and their parents before them put them. And so I think a big part of my livelihood and my dream is putting my kids in a better position than my parents put me.
And I think that the idea for me is do that through film. And that is going to be a very difficult path.
But if I can sustain myself creatively and practically through the means in which I want to do that, through filmmaking, through producing these stories and directing these stories, and can lead my kids to a better life than my parents led me, then I will have succeeded in life.
[00:50:57] Speaker C: That's. That's awesome. And, and what I'll say right away is like, you can see so much of that in three colors. There is so much care there. There's so much. You know, what it looks like to, to accept help, to give help. There's so much of that. So I. I think that really shines through in your film. So just congrats on everything, dude.
[00:51:16] Speaker A: Really, thank you so much. I appreciate it a lot.
[00:51:19] Speaker B: Yeah, we'd have to get. We'd have to get Jack McMahon on here soon.
[00:51:24] Speaker C: Oh, boy.
[00:51:25] Speaker B: Talk about it on the other side.
[00:51:26] Speaker C: You think he can talk for an hour? You think he can?
[00:51:29] Speaker A: Yeah, he could. You. You got three hour episode. Half of it will be about a hour and I will shut it off at that point, but.
[00:51:35] Speaker C: All right, that'll be great.
[00:51:37] Speaker B: Elijah. What.
Are you doing anything for fun these days? Like, have you seen anything you like recently?
[00:51:43] Speaker A: I unfortunately have not been able to go to the movies as much as I love to, which has been the most painful part of this process. Like, my old goal was always 250 movies a year and last year was. Which is just. Is like soul like that. That really hurt me.
[00:52:00] Speaker C: 100 feels pretty good, by the way, for the average person.
[00:52:06] Speaker A: It was very front loaded, though, I would say. You know what I mean? I started working at WME in April and was full steam ahead in the movie at that point.
[00:52:13] Speaker B: And.
[00:52:14] Speaker A: And it was very like I was in my normal groove before then. And after that it was, it was a sharp decline.
[00:52:20] Speaker B: Dude, are you. Do you like wake up early before, like, what. What is your with wme?
Like, how does that even work with the agency job? Like, how do you find time to be doing this?
[00:52:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm up 6:30, 7 in the morning working on this. Then I'm going to work. I normally get into work about 8:30, obviously working, you know, throughout the day. It's like strenuous hours. Like there's no, there's no getting around it. Like every day is pretty much 8:30 to 8, you know, as much as I can. Like during my lunch break, I'm trying to work on, you know, pushing forward whatever I can and then come home
[00:52:54] Speaker C: or go to sleep and what?
[00:52:56] Speaker A: And like, I'm not like trying to
[00:52:57] Speaker C: be in over there.
[00:52:59] Speaker A: I work in motion picture at W Me.
[00:53:01] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:53:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Because my boss works very closely with Wyatt's old boss.
[00:53:07] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:53:08] Speaker A: So I'm always like in our, in our database system. Like, I'm always like, you, you pull you. You type in the number and then you see it come up. And then his number comes up and you the right next to it. It always says assistant Wyatt's Sarkeesian.
[00:53:18] Speaker B: Oh, great.
[00:53:19] Speaker A: And I always think of you because we're literally always on huddle.
[00:53:22] Speaker C: I mean, talk about, talk about people who know how to conduct themselves professionally. It's like that guy knows how to talk for sure.
[00:53:30] Speaker A: 100% AI. Yeah, you get that too because you get to. Not only do you hear the agent conducting themselves, but you hear the managers, you hear the lawyers as well and the studio heads. And I mean, again, just to Bring it back. That's the value.
[00:53:44] Speaker C: It's so valuable. It's so valuable. Especially when you can tell that it's an uncomfortable situation.
How do you get around that? By making sure that everybody on both parties feels okay about where we're leaving off. That. That's like, what I love to listen to.
[00:53:57] Speaker A: You know, big things are, keep your cool and let the other person speak first and then you deliver after that.
[00:54:04] Speaker C: Don't interrupt.
[00:54:04] Speaker A: That's the biggest thing I learned.
[00:54:05] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, don't interrupt. Especially as a man.
Especially as a man. Don't interrupt. That's my piece of advice that I've learned.
[00:54:13] Speaker A: I come to the group, I would
[00:54:15] Speaker B: say keep your cool and let. Let them talk. What was it?
[00:54:19] Speaker A: Let the other person talk first. I think if, if you. Because if you. The more information you have in front of you, like, the better value judgment you're going to be able to make in order to, you know, speak and get your piece across. So that's just something that, you know, I've learned through just, just hearing them speak on the phone is, is, you know, always allow the other point to, to be made before you make your point and never allow, like, emotion to get involved with what you're saying because what you're saying matters and it's going to have an effect on what the outcome is.
[00:54:48] Speaker B: That's fantastic business advice for sure.
[00:54:50] Speaker C: And, and yeah, and it's. Especially when you're dealing with artists, right, who feel so passionate. I mean, you absolutely. I don't need to tell you this, but like, you feel so passionate about your project. Like, it's not to, to, to the business person, it might just be like, you know, another number or another thing, another deal you need to get through. But to another person, it's like a, it's their life.
[00:55:11] Speaker A: It's everything. Yeah. And that's, that's the rough thing about it is like, like what is quote, unquote, commercial? Which is, you know, what the agency services, like, you know, like what. What is going to be able to drive revenue versus.
[00:55:21] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a business.
[00:55:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's a business. And it has to be. And like, that element has to exist, in my opinion, for, you know, the creative freedom to exist as well. But that, that kind of back and forth. It can be rough sometimes. Like just, just hearing, you know, either people's, you know, dreams being, you know, put in jeopardy or, you know, I don't wanna, I don't wanna, like, I've never heard anybody, like, be belittled or like, Their creativity belittle. But like, there's just like, is a reality of like, what is going to work, quote, unquote. And does anybody really know that? I don't know. But like, what we perceive may work from a business perspective versus, you know, what an artist wants to do. And that is very often a clash.
[00:55:59] Speaker C: It is so hard, I mean, even seeing it from now, you know, the producer's perspective of working so closely with artists and figuring out, okay, who, you know, we have, say we have three directors in the running for a project and, you know, they all are meeting so many times with the producers.
Finally one is chosen. Those other two have put their heart and soul into making sizzles, decks, everything that now it's kind of like, okay, they've dropped off, then we have one person, then we pitch them to the studio, studio doesn't like them, we bring back the other people, then the studio decides they don't want to do the project. You know, like, it's like, it's crazy. And by the way, for every one of those meetings, that meeting is rescheduled four times.
[00:56:42] Speaker A: Like, that's.
[00:56:43] Speaker C: That is the. That is the it. It's crazy to be like an artist in the mainstream entertainment business. Like, I just.
[00:56:52] Speaker B: Because both of you, Elijah White makes films as well. Like both of you are on, have that. Have that creative side and instinct, like being so close to, in quotes, reality, like, does that. How. How do you not let that Jade you.
[00:57:11] Speaker C: I'll let Elijah answer that first.
[00:57:14] Speaker A: I would. I would say that it is.
It's interesting because again, like, everything that I know and love about film comes from my cinephilia and like, like, you know, exist like, like exploring this canon of film that, you know, came before me and just coming to understand the details of, like, how things have progressed over time creatively. And like understanding film and filmmaking from that perspective, you see it from the agency and you see it from a different perspective where, you know, maybe other. Other values, other of. Other than what you have come to learn and know makes something good become, you know, what makes something, you know, a positive and a success.
And I think that.
I wouldn't say I've been jaded by that, but it's definitely shifted my perspective as to, you know, what do you need to do in order to create something that's going to be successful.
Because before working in a professional capacity in the film industry, like, that has always been about. It's always been about the work first and foremost.
So just seeing that other perspective, I don't Think I've been jaded by it, but it definitely gives you insight into what they're looking for from that perspective, is what I would say. And obviously, I'm choosing my words very carefully.
[00:58:37] Speaker C: Yeah, I wrote down a couple things, which is, as you were getting to Elijah, your view of what is to be a successful artist has to change to some extent. Right.
All of those pitches and everything that is the work, you know, that's getting yourself better, even if you're not getting the final bid to be the director of the thing like that. That is part of it. To be a writer is to be that writing on your own, the spec that nobody's paying you to write is just as much the work as that owa that you won, you know, at the studio. Right.
And then the other thing is, like, you just gotta stick with it, you know, because there's a lot of. And it's the same on the business side that, like, the first advice that Huddle gave to me was like, there's gonna be a lot of people that don't stick with it and go to work in tech, and you just have to stick with it and just like, put in the work and take it and just. And you're gonna rise to the top at some point if you just stick with it, you know?
[00:59:43] Speaker A: And I think it's something that I struggle with often and have struggled with throughout the creation of this process is like, am I doing this in order to get somewhere, or am I doing this for the sake of doing this? I think that that's something that, you know, we often lose sight of as creative people, you know, in whatever field.
You know, film and filmmaking is about the process of making the film in and of itself.
It's not about the end result. And I think that if you can maintain that idea, obviously, you need to make a living. So, like, you know, that's always going to be a part of it. But, like, I would. I wouldn't negate or neglect the idea of, like, oh, I don't want to write the spec because it's unpaid work. And, you know, it may go nowhere because, you know, you got into this business to write, so. Right. You know, I mean, I think that the.
I think that we. I obviously can't speak for everybody, but, like, I've definitely struggled with at times, like, not, like, getting disillusioned with the work when the work is the reason why I'm doing this in the first place is what I would say.
[01:00:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:00:50] Speaker B: Beautiful.
[01:00:50] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[01:00:51] Speaker B: Well, thank you so much, man.
Really, really Appreciate taking the time. Awesome. To speak to you. Pre slam dance. We should definitely reconvene maybe in a year or something.
[01:01:02] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[01:01:03] Speaker B: Podcast. We'll see you in person before that. But, like, yeah, you know, like, kind of get it. It'll be interesting to speak to you then when that much time has passed.
[01:01:16] Speaker A: You know, hopefully by this point, yeah, we will have learned so much that this is completely dated, but we will see.
[01:01:22] Speaker B: That's true. What do you. What do you want to say to yourself in a year? We should. We should actually do that.
[01:01:25] Speaker A: Oh, gosh.
[01:01:26] Speaker C: Yeah. What questions do you have?
[01:01:29] Speaker B: Just. Just. Yeah, whatever. Whatever it is.
[01:01:31] Speaker A: Well, that's.
[01:01:32] Speaker B: That's.
[01:01:32] Speaker A: That's hard. I'm trying to think.
Well, I think I remember. I remember doing this exercise when I was graduating from USC and one of my buddies was, like, filming. I was like, what. What do you. Like, what do you want to say to yourself in 10 years? And I was like, I remember saying, like, I hope that you do this and you do this and you do this and you do this, but if you don't, it's okay. And I think that.
I think that maybe what I would like to say is that, like, we're all still so young. We're all still trying to figure this thing out. And, like, don't put so much pressure on yourself. If you haven't achieved everything that you've ever wanted to in the next year, you know, it's. It's okay, because there's gonna be more opportunities. Like, we're gonna get into it. And, like, don't allow that to stop you from future opportunities because you're, you know, obsessed with this, you know, quote, unquote, failure.
Yeah. I would say. I would say. I would say that.
[01:02:25] Speaker B: Beautiful.
[01:02:26] Speaker C: I love that part of this podcast is just, like, it's Luke and I just trying to figure it out, you know?
[01:02:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:02:34] Speaker C: And I feel like the more people we talk to, the more we start to figure it out. And ideally, the audience can watch us figure it out and figure it out alongside us, you know?
[01:02:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:02:46] Speaker C: Because obviously, there's no one path, you know, and we talk to 50 people with 50 different paths. So that's. That's kind of the goal of this. And this has definitely been one of my favorite interviews. I really. I really, really appreciate you coming on, and I appreciate that.
Yeah, man. Appreciate you sticking around and supporting us, too. You came to my screening. You've come to 5050. Like, it's. It's real. So appreciate you.
[01:03:09] Speaker A: That's what it's about. That's what it's about. Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate the opportunity. This has been great. And to kind of tie it back together, what we were talking about, about, you know, it's not about. It's not about me. It's got to be about us. I think what you guys do is very much about that, because this is like. This is very much like, you know, maybe don't want to put it like this, but, like, maybe this is like a service that you provide to people. You know, I mean, like, people is. It's an. It's an educational opportunity for people. Not that I'm coming from any place to educate anybody, but, you know, you do give people perspective that they might not otherwise hear. And I think that that's, you know, essential in the work that you do is all in service of that, which I think is really, really valuable to people. So I appreciate it.
[01:03:45] Speaker B: Thank you, man. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for coming on, dude.
[01:03:49] Speaker A: Yeah, we'll talk to you in a year.
Love it. Hopefully Three Colors of the Phenom by then. We'll see.
[01:03:54] Speaker B: Come on.
[01:03:56] Speaker A: Yeah, it'll be.
[01:03:58] Speaker C: It'll be on Netflix by then, having. Having had a robust theatrical run before, you know.
[01:04:04] Speaker B: Yeah, there we go.
[01:04:06] Speaker C: There we go. Yeah, it'll be on Warner, Warner, Paramount, Netflix by then.
[01:04:18] Speaker B: Did you learn something? I'm like your mom. Did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging. Make sure you follow us at the 5050Fest on Instagram and give us five stars, because. Why not? Why not subscribe? Why not? You know, why not? Okay, bye.
