Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: And so my biggest advice to writers, particularly writers who want to just get their things made, particularly writers who want to get their things made, who also want to write for animation, is try just animating some shit yourself and, like, animate it as crappy as possible. Like, don't worry about will lend to the charm of it. Like, that it is kind of crappily drawn. Also, I think that if you're having fun doing it, like, if you're having fun as you're doing these silly drawings or whatever, that will come across and it will make the final product a lot more entertaining.
But you'll learn so much in that process of actually doing it that will make you a better writer.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: I'm Luke Steinfeld.
[00:00:44] Speaker C: And I'm Wyatt Sarkisian.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: We made the 5050 podcast to support you on your filmmaking journey.
[00:00:49] Speaker C: 50% business, 50% creative.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: Every Tuesday, a new how to.
[00:00:53] Speaker C: It would not be an understatement to say that our guests this week. Chris Rutledge is one of the top animators out there. He has mastered multiple animation softwares, has raked up millions of views on his videos, including a recent ASAP Rocky music video, and continues to inspire the next generation of animators, all while being willing to sit down with us and break down exactly how he got there. Whether it be through technology, imagination, or collaboration, Chris Rutledge continues to push boundaries in the animation world.
Enjoy.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: Well, wait, so it's. It's your brother's birthday. You guys just co directed this. This short?
[00:01:35] Speaker A: What, do you guys work together often?
[00:01:37] Speaker B: Shout out to your brother, happy birthday, Daniel.
[00:01:40] Speaker C: Shout out, Daniel.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: Happy birthday.
[00:01:42] Speaker A: We've been working together.
I mean, so it's interesting. He is.
He's been into animation for a long time, but he was never really that serious about pursuing it as a career, in my estimation. Maybe he would disagree, but I've hired him for a number of things, like, a long time ago, and we hadn't really worked that much together for a couple years. He started getting more into wanting to do animation, got more into blender and stuff last couple years, and I've been kind of encouraging him and being a little bit of his producer. I've been pivoting the last couple years also just into doing a lot more producing in addition to the other stuff that I'm doing because I love just doing everything.
But.
But he has a pretty successful YouTube channel doing, like, video essays and, like, analysis of, like, movies and games and stuff. He has, like, this one video essay that's like four hours long that he did on Metal Gear Solid 4 that. Oh my God, like 5 million views. And he's got like a dedicated fan base. His YouTube channel is called Steak Bentley.
But he's also a really talented animator and he, he watches a lot more movies and, you know, just like consumes a lot more media than I do. So he's got a very good sort of like, directorial vocabulary. And as a result, he was a really great person. Also, he draws a lot more than me. He's a really good person to do kind of the boards for a lot of this short that we did together for off the air. I, um. Dude.
[00:03:13] Speaker B: Which is. Which is since, like, completely blown up. It's crazy.
[00:03:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: I just looked at it this morning and it had like a couple million likes.
[00:03:21] Speaker A: Yeah, it's got like over 2 million likes on Instagram now and, you know, it's gotten over 20 million views and like, has gotten several million like, on other platforms as well.
So it's the most viral thing either of us have ever done, which is awesome. My parents are obviously psyched about that. They're thrilled, I'm sure mainly that we're just working together on stuff. But I'm also working with him on other stuff and I plan to keep working with him. And he's, he's super talented and we just have, you know, a special relationship being siblings, so can work really closely.
But yeah, I'm super proud of him. And are you older or younger? Happy birthday. Are you older? My younger brother, I'm the oldest of three. Yeah. And we have the youngest brother, Kevin, who's also awesome. And there's all kinds of other cool creative stuff, but mainly he's a chef.
Cool.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: What do your parents do? Are your parents in the creative field as well, or is this just.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: No, my, my, my parents. My mom used to be a lawyer. Now she runs a nonprofit furniture bank called Household Goods in Massachusetts. Shout out to Household Goods.
[00:04:26] Speaker C: Love that.
[00:04:27] Speaker A: And my dad's done a whole bunch of different kinds of like, finance related stuff. Like, you know, worked for banks and hedge funds and done angel investing and things like that, which is really interesting because I always thought the most interesting part of his job was like, kind of like being like, oh, like you, like, are doing this thing. Well, I know this person. I should connect you with them and blah, blah, blah, whatever. And I realized like, I'm doing exactly the same thing as him when I'm like, producing stuff and I'm like, damn, he would be like a great producer.
So.
But also, like, my mom is also like, really great with People. So I'm just a very like, you know, I like, I like people, I like talking, I like connecting people, I like seeing what people are up to and like figuring out how to collab with people or connecting people that I feel like should know each other and whatever. And I think it's all in the interest of just like I realized maybe within the last year that my goal has kind of shifted from like, I want to make as much of the stuff that I want to make as I possibly can and like figure out how to maximize the amount of time I get to spend making the stuff that I want to make to. I want to just help get as much cool made as possible.
Whether that's through making it myself, whether it's through like collaborating with people, helping produce other people's stuff, working on other people's stuff, teaching inspiring people, students, showing people cool films that inspire them, kind of whatever it can be doing community building stuff, whatever leads to all of us ending up making more cool stuff and inspiring each other more. I'm just like, that's the most exciting kind of thing for me is just like, I love that. And the animation community is really, really cool. Like going to these festivals and stuff is sort of my favorite thing. And I love that in animation specifically nobody's really famous, so there's not really any pretentiousness. Like you can just kind of go and hang out with everybody and like, you know, it's, it's a very non toxic community for the most part.
[00:06:24] Speaker C: Totally.
[00:06:25] Speaker A: Which I, which I love.
[00:06:27] Speaker C: But yeah, it's funny you're mentioning all these skills that are producing and you're like, oh, my dad, even though he's not in the biz, did all this stuff. But it's like I feel like in this industry we all think that the job of a producer, those are skills that nobody else would ever have, you know.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: No, totally.
[00:06:45] Speaker C: But it's really, it really is. Like these are great skills for any sort of field.
[00:06:51] Speaker A: Yeah. And producing is such a nebulous thing.
[00:06:54] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:06:56] Speaker A: It can be like being a project manager or it can be just like being an advisor or it can be like, it can be like all this different kind of stuff. I mean like, you know.
Yeah, I've been like producing a lot more stuff like including like that, that ASAP Rocky video that just came out.
And that was a job where it was like, you know, I'm producing this, but I'm also sort of like figuring out the whole tech pipeline and I'm like, we're doing it all in Houdini. And I'm like the one that figured out like, yeah, we should use like octane and Houdini and this combo of these different things, blah, blah. And like, you know, like, like kind of was like. Then once the project started and I hired the team, I assembled the team that we were all working out of my like studio space on under Dan, who's the director.
Then most of the time I was just kind of like on the couch on my laptop doing spreadsheets, organizing stuff, like, you know, following up with other people, doing meetings for other projects, like, whatever. And then like as soon as anybody was like, hey, I'm having this like Houdini problem or whatever, I would like go over to them, like be like, oh, you should maybe do this thing this way, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Like maybe make a video for everybody that like, hey, let's do this thing this way, yada yada. Which is also where like my tutorial making skill comes into then also being helpful for producing. And like it all really overlaps in all these interesting ways.
And yeah, I'm like kind of trying to like invent this job that is like the best thing for me. But like, yeah, like producer feels like a nice kind of catch all nebulous thing that can kind of COVID a lot of that stuff. But like, even though most producers aren't like necessarily diving into the software and stuff, I find that that's been an invaluable sort of like background for me to have coming in. Being a producer on stuff.
[00:08:32] Speaker B: Do you still have passion or have that like spark of excitement to like
[00:08:37] Speaker A: get back into the software massively? Oh my God, I want to do everything all the time. I'm like, and especially like know I'm like beta testing like, you know, the new versions of Houdini like every year. And like, you know, like, I love like seeing certain new features. I get excited about drop. I just made a tutorial that I'm really psyched about that is on my Patreon now that I just started kind of like spun back up again. But I'm going to post that publicly on my YouTube in like a few weeks.
And yeah, I'm just like when I ever have time to experiment and screw around and like just be inspired by like, you know, like tinkering, like that's a ton of fun and leads to so much discovery that you can later then use in all kinds of ways, you know.
And I think a lot of it to me also is I'm just like, oh, I'm like, able to kind of figure out the starting point of, like, oh, these are some really cool ways that these things could be used that I'm not really seeing them be used. And I want to just, like, show that to people so that I can then inspire other people to like, explore that further and then, like, go really deep on certain things, because I'm just like, I'm all over the place and I want to work on everything, and I. I'm just getting to kind of scratch the surface with things. But I. That's part of the fun thing about teaching is, like, it's an opportunity to, like, inspire all these students and show them, like, oh, here's all these cool techniques that, like, haven't really been explored yet that you could go deep on for your film or whatever. And I want to see those films get made. And I couldn't possibly make an entire short film out of every different new technique that I'd be excited to explore, if that makes sense. Sure.
[00:10:16] Speaker B: Well, before we keep going, because I think we can definitely in a second, but just want to pause and just say thank you for coming on, Chris. Obviously, I came across your work on reels on Instagram with. Through. Through, you know, your project with Adult Swim.
And then, of course, finding that rocky project as well, which, of course, I have seen that kind of, like, broke the Internet in a way.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: And then just finding more and more of your stuff and was a similar kind of.
Do you know who Jonathan Zawada is?
[00:10:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:48] Speaker B: Yeah. So we. We spoke to him. He was on here a few episodes back, and.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: Amazing.
[00:10:54] Speaker B: There's a. There was a kind of. A similar. Kind of very different style, but. But this. I don't know, like, it's hyper real animation, but also very. You know, there's. There's. There's a very unique voice there.
[00:11:07] Speaker C: Wildly unique.
[00:11:08] Speaker A: Yeah, his work. His.
His style is super fresh and unique to him and. And, yeah, really cool. I love how he's just kind of like, done all the artwork for Flume, and it's like. It's like kind of an interesting, like. I don't know, it's. It's always really cool seeing, like, a.
An aesthetic like that that didn't exist before, like, come into being, including with, like, the. The whole sound side of it, like, with, like, mixing his visuals with Flume is just like a great combo. And it, like, just creates this sort of, like, really interesting, you know, like, feel. And it's like, I see those kinds of things popping up here and there with different Artists sometimes where it's like, oh, you're really doing something different and unique and that's really exciting.
And then those have the opportunity to then really inspire people and almost start, like, art movements in a way where it's like, oh, these are a bunch of people that clearly were inspired by Jonathan Zowada. Or another person that I would bring as an example is this guy, World4Jack, who is this really kind of mysterious guy on social media. Like, you can find him on YouTube and stuff. And he made this series called Video Pics, I believe, like, while he was learning Blender with an X video pix.
And since then, like, he had, like a discord. He had like a Patreon. And I found his discord and then met a bunch of other really sick artists that were doing stuff kind of in that style. And now there's this whole, like, web of artists that have been, like, loosely inspired by him, but have, like, taken that style in their own directions and stuff. Like, you know, one of them that I would shout out would be Malbat.
Her work is really sick.
And you can see how Jack's kind of influenced it a bit, but also it's her own thing.
Same with this guy.
World Blog, I believe, is his handle on Instagram, but his name is Jeff and he was actually one of my students at CalArts as well. But I met him on. On this discord before that I'll try to find a link to.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: And is this. Is this all Blender? Are these. Are these folks all using Blender?
[00:13:20] Speaker A: They are, but they. They don't necessarily need to be. But definitely the fact that Blender is out there and exists is, like, a big deal. But, yeah, World4Jack is really awesome. And, yeah, he kind of started this whole sort of, like, I feel like it started off as like, his thing. And I think initially he had kind of this negative reaction to people sort of, like, ripping him off, so to speak. And then since then, has kind of changed his mind and sort of, like, embraced it as he should, because, again, people are doing their own things with it. But yeah, one of the artists that I'm also really into that's doing this kind of stuff now is this guy Bebop, who I'm working with on a project and is, like, incredible.
Another person who's not totally, like, necessarily as inspired, but I think in the same kind of world is my friend Chippy, Alex Futtersack, who.
[00:14:12] Speaker B: What.
[00:14:13] Speaker A: What, like, what.
[00:14:15] Speaker B: What is what. What stands out to these for you? You know, because, of course, clearly you're you're consuming a ton of this.
[00:14:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, you're living it.
[00:14:24] Speaker B: You're breathing it. Like, what. What is the thing that stands out?
[00:14:27] Speaker A: I think noticing this as a trend has been really interesting and seeing it evolve and like, it is. It's an aesthetic that, like, does it. It doesn't have a name yet. It's like an art movement that, like, is yet to be named in a way.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: And what is it? Is it. Is it like, short form? Is it long form? Is it conceptual? Is it narrative?
[00:14:44] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's all. All like animated stuff.
And I think the sort of. Sort of. Some of the. The unifying kind of themes of it are like, there's a lot of like, kind of low poly stuff, but it doesn't have to be low poly, but it's definitely inspired by like, low poly visuals and video game aesthetics in a way.
It also is involving a lot of really weird, bouncy, like weird 2D animation elements and like, totally squash and stretch and like, digital artifacts and like, kind of web 1.0 aesthetic. But, like, it's just integrating. And also, like, a lot of it is using like, really crazy, like, soundcloud, techno music and mashups. And like, it's just like this combination of all these different things together that like, when you go through all of it, you'll like, see the through line. But.
But yeah, it's. It's. It's. It's really special, I think, to like, be able to notice that that kind of thing is happening before it gets named. And it's like, you know, also, like, I just think aesthetics in general are so interesting. Like, you know, it was, it was funny how like, a couple years ago, Frutiger Aero became like a big trend as like, an aesthetic which is just kind of like Windows Vista core, like, with like the, the. The, you know, grass and the bubbles and the utopian, like, sort of like, look with like, buildings and like, oh, tech is gonna save us. And you know, like, tech is the future and like, green whatever, like aquariums, fish, blah, blah. And then that, like, aesthetic didn't have a name until like a couple years ago. Somebody, like, put a name on it, you know, and.
Yeah, it's just the way that all this stuff kind of branches and evolves is like, super interesting. And I think I've always been really interested in. I used to be really big into SoundCloud and making music and doing mashups and all kinds of stuff. And I, I thought it was always really fun to like, go into Ableton and try to make a beat and just try to make something that, like, didn't fit into any genre. And I always think it's, like, so interesting when you see a new genre or style, like, start to pop off and trend and inspire people. And it, like, it does get annoying when it's like, people are too dependent on, like, making things that fit into specific genres or boxes. But it's always so exciting when you see somebody, like, doing something that feels really fresh and new, and it's just like the beginning of that movement starting to kind of pop off or whatever.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: There. There is such overlap, I mean, clearly of like, making music on Ableton or whatever, like in your room by yourself and just exploring to then, like a blender sort of software platform where you're, again, by yourself. But it's like a blank page in a way, you know, but it's. And gosh, there's. There's so many ways to take it because I. I made music too, before really digging into film and, like, have found a ton of overlap and also kind of dug more into the Unreal Engine piece of it when I was at usc, which we did a lot of previz on there and, like, started just really kind of scratching at the surface of all that, but was always so interested in, like, blender and so kind of like, not envious, but just like. Yeah, I think interested is a word of just like, wow. People who can do this really have almost like a leg up in a
[00:18:01] Speaker A: way, because you can.
[00:18:02] Speaker B: You can make incredible stuff. Like that's just straight out of your brain, you know, that you can't necessarily get live action, you know.
[00:18:10] Speaker A: Yeah. The way that I like to think about it, it's interesting. I actually remember being on a tour of USC as a high schooler, and I was like, I want to go to school for film. Like, I was doing animation for a while. I was like, big on, like, newgrounds.com back in the day doing flash animation stuff. And I wanted to go to school for film. And I was like, in a pivot into film. And I was, like, interested in USC and interested in RISD and interested in all these different schools, but especially was interested in ones where it's like, oh, there's like, a little bit of overlap between, like, animation and film. And I remember, like, you know, being at, like, the orientation or whatever for the. The tour, and they were like, how many of you in here are animators?
And I was like, oh, yeah, me. And I was like, oh, yeah. I guess, like, I do like, identify with, like, being an animator. And I'm like, yeah, I think maybe. I don't know, maybe I don't want to pivot into film. And then I went and took a lot of film classes, school, and I was like, yeah, I like being an animator. I like that being my strong suit and my main thing. And I. What I also discovered in that process was like, I think that film and animation, I mean, I love both and I am interested in doing both still. But, like, I think they're the opposite ways to approach filmmaking, where film is like a subtractive art form, where you're like taking the entire world around you, limiting it to whatever you put in front of the camera, shooting a lot of extra footage than what you actually need, and then chiseling and trimming it down to exactly what you. What you end up with and getting like the perfect thing with that. Whereas animation is building everything exactly as you need it meticulously. You have totally.
[00:19:43] Speaker C: There's no extra footage in animation.
[00:19:45] Speaker A: Definitely. I mean, it's. It's a huge waste if you.
[00:19:47] Speaker C: Yeah, it would be incredibly costly.
[00:19:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, right. So that's why it's like you edit first in animation, like when you're making the animatic, as opposed to like after you shoot all the stuff and then you cut it down, you know, so it's like an additive first versus a subtractive approach. But of course, it's like a hybrid approach too, where it's like you're doing a mix of the two and, you know, so it's not all like one or the other. But it is interesting that I feel like the live action method is like, you know, kind of taking that opposite approach in a way, but they're both really fun.
[00:20:19] Speaker C: We'll be right back.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: Are you sick and tired of spending months on short films that get seen by just your uncle? Are you sad and bored of editing all the time and all that footage for just 10 views? Well, now's the time to change that. Submissions for the 5050 Comedy Fest are open now. Get your work seen by professionals who can actually advance your filmmaking career. Not your uncle, unless your uncle happens to be at a top tier talent agency like caa, UTA or wme.
Check out the episode description for the submission link or head to filmfreeway.com and search for 5050 Comedy. 5050 Comedy is on May 3rd. Submitting to 5050 Comedy may lead to money, fame, fast cars, boats, planes, helicopters, cybertrucks, and lifelong friendships. 5050 comedy is on May 3rd. We look forward to seeing you there at 5050 comedy May 3rd. Your uncle is not invited unless he works at a top tier talent agency like CAA. Utawme. May 3rd. 5050 comedy May 3rd. 5050 comedy maybe May 3rd. We look forward to watching your comedic short film May 3rd.
[00:21:20] Speaker C: I am curious, you know, because we've been talking a lot about different approaches between film and animation. I'm curious and we can use one of your shorts as an example. Where does story fit into it? Because obviously when you're doing animation and specifically shorts and Luke and I, you know, we watch a ton of shorts. Luke runs a whole film festival based around shorts.
Is story thought about first or is it character first? Or what sort of, you know, advice would you have someone who's seeking out to make an animated short? Because obviously you need to make sure the story fits animation and it's simple enough.
[00:22:01] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
I mean, I don't think you necessarily need to worry about the story fitting animation 100%. I think there's so many different ways you could approach it.
I am a really big fan of the filmmaker Matt Johnson. You guys know him?
Yeah, I love that movie BlackBerry that he did, but obviously also love Nirvana, the band, the show and everything else he's done. The dirty is amazing, but he's got a very interesting approach. And I got the Blu Ray of BlackBerry because I loved it so much and wanted to see the behind the scenes. And they have a really great behind the scenes where they show them basically making an animatic without having even known that an animatic was a thing. They kind of invented it on their own where they, they did a radio play of the script and then Jay like drew like pictures in procreate and like different poses for different characters in different scenes and, and then filmed them all like with like a handheld iPhone, like camera on top of the screen. Sent all those clips to Matt and he edited like an animatic together and then they were able to watch the film. And it was a really useful writing tool for them to like figure it out and kind of like, you know, like lock down some of those ideas and make sure that they were working before they went and filmed the actual thing.
But I think one really interesting takeaway from that to me, is that they were able to, without being animators, you know, primarily just being writers, make a animated short. And it looked kind of crappy, but it was kind of funny in a way. And it sort of lent itself like it, it was. I would have watched the whole movie like the way that they made it like in those behind the scenes, it
[00:23:57] Speaker C: just still frames paired with the dialog, right?
[00:23:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, not quite still frames, but mostly still frames, like, but with like camera movement and like. Like they would like, change some expressions for different, like, parts or whatever. Like, it would be very lightly animated, very limited animation, but very entertaining. And it's like, you know, I think that is a good lesson to people where it's like, animation is a kind of filmmaking that sort of anybody can do, especially these days on their own. And so my biggest advice to writers, particularly writers who want to just get their things made, particularly writers who want to get their things made, who also want to write for animation, is try just animating some shit yourself and like animated as crappy as possible. Like, don't worry about will. It will lend to the charm of it, like, that it is kind of crappily drawn. Also, I think that if you're having fun doing it, like, if you're having fun as you're doing these silly drawings or whatever, that will come across and it will. It will make the final product a lot more entertaining.
But you'll learn so much in that process of actually doing it that will make you a better writer for film and for animation. You know, like, learning more of everything really helps a lot, I think. I don't think I'm a super strong writer. So when it comes to story, most of my story stuff is not coming from I'm going to sit down and write a script and blah, blah, blah. I've certainly done that and I do enjoy doing that when I have time to do it, but it is really hard.
And I think that most of my inspiration for stories and stuff kind of comes from me just writing down anything that I think of or anything that I see or any conversation that I overhear that I think is funny.
I think people being normal and like overhearing normal people's conversations on the street is like the funniest thing ever.
And so I always want to write that stuff down when I hear, you know, somebody saying something like, you know, walking by, somebody being like, I don't know, like, just making some comment about their friend or like something. Something really random. So I have a notes. App, note on my phone that is just like miles long of like one line, little ideas, basically just tweets, like.
And I.
If I was like, I want to make a big, long, short film now what I would probably do is like, be like, okay, I'll write a script and I'm going to go to The Notes app. And I'm just going to figure out how to like string a bunch of these things together and like, you know, like make a bunch of funny, weird little slice of life like moments or whatever.
And then from there I go into trying to record the audio.
A lot of the times I'll hit up friends and be like, hey, can you like, try reading these lines for me? Like, try riffing a little bit. Like, just try a bunch of different versions, whatever. Sometimes the riffing that they do ends up being the funniest part. Sometimes maybe like the whole thing that I wrote for them gets cut out and I just use the bits that they rift or whatever. Like, you know, you can figure out a lot with just like editing down that audio and stuff. Yeah.
And.
And then also with.
But it's nice to get like a lot of versions for them that you can just like play with in the edit. I'll like record stuff myself as well, like do my own voices. That's like the fastest, easiest way to get stuff made as well, usually. But it's nice to have a variety of like voices in there, obviously. And then also for music, I, through my SoundCloud era, have a lot of really talented music producer friends and stuff.
And I'll just hit them up, like ones in particular who I think kind of fit the vibe of the work that I'm trying to make of which there's like, you know, five go to people for me.
[00:27:42] Speaker B: Producing.
[00:27:43] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Music producers. Yeah.
[00:27:44] Speaker B: No, no, I mean, I mean, but like, you producing?
[00:27:46] Speaker A: Oh, you know. Oh, totally. Yeah.
[00:27:48] Speaker C: This is you producing?
[00:27:49] Speaker A: Yeah, Producing my own stuff. Yeah. And then, and then, yeah, I'll just ask them to be like, hey, can you send me just like a bunch of demos? Like, you know, let me know, like send me anything you'd be like, cool with me theoretically using. And then I just have a bunch of stuff that I can play with in an edit and be like, yeah, what feels right, blah, blah. Then I have like a radio play and then that helps me figure out the timing a lot better than like having like the most painful thing ever is being in a crit in school for like animation class. Like we're like watching everybody's senior films and like seeing somebody's animatic where there's no sound. It's like, this is unwatchable. Like, I can't, I can't follow this at all. Like, I would much rather have just a radio play with no visuals at all. But even the crappiest visuals, like, plus, you know, decent Audio is going to be a million times better than anything without audio.
[00:28:39] Speaker C: That's so interesting. Why do you think that is? That it's just so like uncomfortable and hard to watch that.
[00:28:45] Speaker A: I don't know, it's like, I mean, it's like, you know, it's just uncanny, like seeing things happen without having sound to accompany them and.
[00:28:55] Speaker C: Right.
[00:28:56] Speaker A: Like, I think that the, a lot of the comedy comes through like sound and your brain is really forgiving and will sync up like visuals to sound really easily, you know, Like, I mean, I always loved as a kid just like playing the radio and then like turning the TV on and turning it on mute and like, just like laughing at like the way that things would sync up or whatever.
[00:29:21] Speaker C: That's funny.
[00:29:22] Speaker A: This commercial become a music video for this James Brown song or like, whatever, you know.
But.
But yeah, I have like some really vivid memories of doing that, like as a kid.
[00:29:35] Speaker B: Where are you from originally?
[00:29:37] Speaker A: I'm from the Boston area, Concord, Massachusetts.
So yeah, I grew up mostly there and then went to the Rhode Island School of Design for a little bit.
[00:29:53] Speaker B: Were you. I mean, because you mentioned you toured USC to pursue film and you were already animating. So I mean, this was like very much within you already. You had that passion?
[00:30:04] Speaker A: No, totally. I mean, I was doing animation since like fifth grade. Like when I saw people doing Flash animation stuff on the Internet, I was like, oh, I can do this. Like when I saw like Toy Story and things like that, I was like, I can do this.
I was like, you need a million computers to make this kind of or whatever. Like, this is not a thing. That's a real job for a person. And then like when I saw like, you know, like 15 year olds making stick fight animations on the Internet, I was like, oh, shit. Like I could do this. Like.
And so, yeah, I started getting into that then. And then, yeah, it was.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: What, what software was that? Or were you hand drawing Flash?
[00:30:40] Speaker A: It was, it was macro Flash and then it got bought by Adobe and. Yeah, and.
And then, yeah, I mean that was the way to make anything on the. Because it was like, this is like pre YouTube that I was like making stuff also or like watching stuff pre YouTube. Like Flash was like the proto. Because like Flash was like, you know, a vector based, like, you know, animation, like program where it would like, you could export these SWF files that were like really, really small, but they would require like, you know, your computer to have like a decent enough processor to like run the files. But they would be like only a couple kilobytes so you could just like go watch cartoons or play games on the Internet back then. That was such a cool era of the Internet, back when there was all of that going on. There's not really anything quite like that now, but like, definitely always got to give a huge shout out to newgrounds.com for being like a really great, inspiring source of like, all that stuff. And I have friends that I've made from back then that I like still like talk to all the time, and I'm in touch with and are still doing like animation and stuff.
But yeah, then, yeah, I toured a bunch of schools and I think I, I applied and got rejected from USC and calarts and I got into risd, Skidmore and Hampshire College and I kind of was like interested in going to all of them. But I ended up going to risd, which was the right choice because it was like, when I got to art school, I was like, oh, these are my nerds. Like, this is people that I need to kind of be around, you know.
And I really liked going to art school.
And then I ended up transferring to Pratt in New York around the time all my friends were graduating from RISD and moving to New York. And that's where I got into 3D, really hardcore. And that was awesome. That was like a big game changing thing for me that got me way more passionate about animation again because it was like, I was always very technical. I always really liked all the kind of tools and stuff where the, where
[00:32:46] Speaker B: the were the skills. It's, it's like when you, you move editing softwares, you know, and like, you have to kind of relearn the shortcuts and everything. I guess you can obviously change those up to, to what you like now. But like, I don't know, was there a learning curve at all? Was it like learning a new language?
[00:33:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it's super hard to get into that stuff, but it's also not as hard as it feels for the first. It just feels so hard at first.
But like, once you make it past the first day or two of like learning and you're like, I really am determined and I'm just gonna fucking figure this out.
You get to a point where you start like being able to have fun with it, even if you don't really totally know what you're doing.
And then once you're able to start having fun with it, then it becomes a lot easier to learn. And then pretty soon you're at the point where I'm like, oh yeah, I kind of know how to do whatever I want now.
And that's an amazing feeling. Um, and I almost miss the feeling of, like, having fun with it but not knowing what I'm doing. Um, like, that's a really fun sort of like, head space to be in. Which is why it's always fun for me to like, go and learn new tools where I'm like, kind of screwing around for the first time and don't really know what I'm doing. Because it's almost like now if I open up like Houdini, which is my main 3D software of choice, I'm like, like, I don't know. Just like, I know how to do everything right. It's. It's not as exciting as it used to be.
But then weirdly, if I go and I, like, teach a class to students and I'm like, oh, let me show you how to do all this stuff and blah, blah, and I'm like, then it gets me excited again, and I'm like, oh, I'm like remembering, like, oh, yeah, there's like, all these cool things you can do. And like, I'm so excited to show you guys all these things. And so I don't know. That's kind of a weird hack for like, getting re inspired in a way.
[00:34:26] Speaker C: Yeah, it. It probably really lends to the creative part of it too, right? Like, there's the technical element of the tool, but actively learning something can re. And as you said, re inspire you.
[00:34:39] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
[00:34:40] Speaker B: I remember with, like, when I was into really digging into music production too. Like, you'd have friends over and they want to make something and you're like, I got you, I got you. And you, you set up a track pretty quick and they're like, whoa, you're really fast.
[00:34:51] Speaker A: And it's like, yeah, wow.
[00:34:53] Speaker B: I, I am pretty. Like, I, I spent a lot on this, you know?
[00:34:57] Speaker C: Like, I'm sure you don't realize how fast you are.
[00:34:59] Speaker B: You don't realize how many, how many hours have gone by and like, how comfortable you get with the software. And you, you know, you set it up, you open it, and you know exactly where to. To start from.
[00:35:08] Speaker C: It's pretty cool to see someone do that.
[00:35:10] Speaker A: But that's, that's exactly what I'm talking about where it's like, you started having fun with it at a point to where you didn't even notice the amount of hours you were putting into this. And then it's just like, oh, yeah, I am really good now. Like, oh, I actually know how to do whatever I Want now, like, it's muscle memory.
[00:35:24] Speaker B: When was that for you? Was that at Pratt?
[00:35:27] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. I mean, it's been different points for me for different programs. Like, because at Pratt I was learning Maya and I was teaching myself C4D on my own and then later got into Houdini, and then Houdini became my main tool that I replaced Maya and everything with back in like 2020ish.
Wow.
[00:35:49] Speaker B: So that's pretty fresh. I mean, that switch is pretty fresh.
[00:35:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:55] Speaker B: I mean, why, why was Houdini like the one for you after exploring all of these?
[00:36:02] Speaker A: Well, it's a good question. I mean, I think I would have really liked Blender also. And if I had gotten into stuff a little bit later, I might have like, ended up going for Blender instead.
But Houdini and Blender are definitely the two best 3D programs out there.
And the reason for that is that they are not made by like, you know, shitty corporations that just are trying to make money off of the customers.
That's definitely the case with Adobe. That's definitely the case with Autodesk. That's definitely the case with Maxon. That's definitely the case with the Foundry.
And some of those programs are still great. Like, I mean, like, After Effects is a very special, unique, cool program that lets you do really cool stuff. It's also a huge piece of. And is like, you know, like, really frustrating for a lot of other reasons, but there's nothing quite out there like it. And I do kind of wish that I could use it, but I just personally can't really stomach using software where I'm like, I can tell the people that are in charge of this software hate me and are trying to gauge me for money.
Like, the people making the tools actually care about it and are cool. Like, the developers are like, are like. But they're fighting the people that are like, trying to gouge me for money, as always. And they're making their. Their shareholders. And Blender is a big, cool, open source thing, you know, they don't have any shareholders. Houdini is owned by Kim Davidson. So we have this awesome benevolent dictator who has like, I believe, like, put in his will, like, you know, like, once I die, never fucking sell this company to Autodesk.
And so.
Which I don't know if that's true. I'm just making that up, but I hope that it seems to be his, his M.O. from what I can tell.
But. But yeah, he's like, he's really interested in just like, you know, he's he's actually has, I think, a good sort of like, you know, he cares about the customers and they're making the tool for their customers because they don't have shareholders to appease really.
So that's, I think what makes kind of all the difference.
But also Houdini is very different from all the other 3D packages because it's all built around the idea of proceduralism and it's all kind of like a node based workflow.
And so for that reason it is kind of a thing where you're always making sort of like tools to build things instead of just building the things directly. So like an example that I like to give is there's, you know, the blender donut tutorial where you like make a donut in blender and then at the end of that you have a donut. And then in Houdini there is this really awesome tutorial of this guy Lewis Orton made called Donut in Any Shape in Houdini. And it's like, okay, first you have the font node that you type the letter A in and then you have the extrude node that that plugs into, and then you plug that into a VDB node and turn it into a soft shape. And then you say, oh, I'm going to put sprinkles on the parts where the normals are facing up and yada yada, blah, blah, blah. At the end of that you have this big node chain and then you have this beautiful looking donut at the end. And then what you can do is you can go back up to the top of the node chain and you can change the letter A to the letter B or C and you have a donut in any of these different shapes or you can plug any model into it and you know, like make a crazy weird donut shape out of like a, you know, a drawing that you're feeding into it or whatever. So it's like you're building a donut generator instead of just building one donut. And that's obviously very useful for certain things. But yeah, it's like, you know, with music production and stuff, like I'm sure you've like figured out all these tricks and these cool procedural ways to do things and you're like, like, oh yeah, it's just like fun, weird problem solving and stuff. And it's like, I don't know, I like approaching it in that way. And it's not like the entire part of artistry and filmmaking is like the procedural cleverness and the, you know, almost like, soft.
[00:40:09] Speaker B: It's all about problem solving, you know?
Yeah, but.
[00:40:13] Speaker A: But sometimes the answer to the problem is just make it by hand. It's going to be faster. Like, sometimes you can go down a rabbit hole with Houdini where it's not actually, like, the best kind of way to do it. And that's why I also like to, like, layer in stuff, like VR sculpting and stuff where you're like, really making stuff by hand, and it's really not procedural or like hand keyframing Animation is a thing where you would, like, want to just really do that by hand and be meticulous about that. But you can layer then procedure. And so you can, so you can kind of like.
[00:40:42] Speaker B: So you're at a point where you're just. I mean, you're able to like, you're a master at this.
[00:40:46] Speaker C: You get a playground.
[00:40:47] Speaker B: It's crazy.
[00:40:48] Speaker A: It's a playground.
[00:40:49] Speaker B: Yeah. When you're teaching, are these kids, Kids. Are these students at a very professional level or are they like, this is the first time they're opening Houdini or you teach. I assume you're teaching Houdini.
[00:41:00] Speaker A: It's. Yeah, it's more along the lines of the first time they're opening Houdini.
[00:41:03] Speaker B: And what do you, how do you, like, how do you teach with the knowledge you have?
I'm. I'm sure it's difficult to not be like, let me hop in there and just make you a train. Like, you know what I mean?
[00:41:14] Speaker A: It's funny. Yeah, that's an interesting point, because I do think that in a way, as I'm getting more experienced over the years, it's making it harder, harder to teach because I'm further away from that person.
[00:41:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:26] Speaker A: Just learned the thing, you know, so that's why I really encourage. I, I, it annoys me when I talk to people and I'm like, I see them do, like, a cool thing and I'm like, oh, you should make a tutorial on that. And they're like, oh, yeah, I, I'm like such a noob still, though. Like, I don't know enough to like, make. It's like, no, actually, like, you would be a better person to make a tutorial on that than I would because, yeah, you just learned it, you know, like, dude, you're.
[00:41:49] Speaker B: That's, you're defining this podcast, you know, um, which is having people like, yes, we, we want older, established folks to, to feel welcome to come on here, but, like, we're much not more interested, but it's like, it's. It definitely is our mission to speak to the kids coming up. And it's, like, the best way to do that is have folks like yourself who are, like, fresh in this, you know?
[00:42:11] Speaker A: Yeah, well, there's. There's. You know, we all have a lot to learn from each other, like, and I definitely feel like there's a lot that I still learn from the people that are just learning stuff for the first time, and also a lot of things that I forget, like. Oh, yeah. Like, this thing that I'm just, like, expecting you to know and take for granted now is not actually, like, a thing that you inherently have intuition for.
[00:42:33] Speaker C: So.
[00:42:33] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, like. Like, that's a good reminder when I'm teaching. Like, oh, yeah, like, you're getting stuck on this thing. I forgot. Like, this is not an obvious thing. I'm just so, you know, experienced. Yeah, I, like, don't think about it anymore. But, like, that's a good reminder. And also, like, yeah, again, like, there's something about that playing for the first time, not knowing what you're doing thing where you can come up with really interesting things that I would never come up with, you know?
[00:42:57] Speaker C: Totally.
We've had a couple people who teach on this podcast, and one. One thing that we've always. That has been interesting to me is how much the teachers learn from the students, especially because kids these days are so good with technology, and it really is just, like. It's like an extension of their body in a way. So I'm curious if you've, like, learned anything from your students.
[00:43:20] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, totally. I mean, one of my former students, Angus Oakes, who was, like, one of my best students at CalArts, he took my class twice, and then he was a TA the third time that I taught it.
He graduated this past year, and then I hired him on the ASAP Rocky video, and he absolutely crushed it. He ended up being, like, you know, one of our two CG leads on the video, even though he just graduated just because he was like. He was like.
I mean, I was learning all kinds of, like, stuff that he was, like, figuring out with Blender. And we ended up, like, for that video using this plugin for Blender where we could do handheld camera moves using, like, an iPad. Like, and we built the whole proxy scene, and we were going back and forth between Houdini and Blender with that.
But, yeah, he was just a total, like, beast and just, like, crushing it. And, like, a big thing that I. Again, like, I think the number one thing that I always like, learn from people is often like, you know, I am so in the Houdini technical realm that I oftentimes forget, like, oh, yeah, it would be easier to just, like, cobble the shit together by hand rather than, like, building a crazy system to do it. Like, and, like, you can be so much faster if you just, like, know when to do that versus when to build a procedural system or whatever.
But. But yeah, no, I mean, I learned so much from being around all kinds of different people. I love being around different people on different jobs. I'm, like, trying to be around as many different kinds of people, you know, as I can. Sharing the studio space that I'm at in Glassell park with a bunch of people has been, like, really awesome. Working on more projects with different studios, like, it's great to just, like, be around different groups of people and, like, you know, like, learn all kinds of stuff from them. And. And I. I know that they're learning stuff from us too. And it's like. It's just like a really great, you know, collaborative kind of vibe.
[00:45:17] Speaker B: What. What's. What's like the. The spiel on. On day one of the class, like, and. And I mean, I'm not asking for the whole class, but of, like, your. What. What's like a.
Some sort of tip or note or message to. To the listener of our podcast who, like, is interested in and taking that first step into Houdini or Blender, you know, or Maya or whatever it is.
[00:45:39] Speaker A: I mean, it's a lot of the stuff that I already said of just like, you know, here's the difference between Houdini and the other programs, like, the Donut in any shape thing, you know, blah. But then also, like, you know, the reminder of, like, it's going to be hard at first, but once you get over the hard part into the fun part, like, that's like, you know, when you can really, like, accelerate and, you know, it's just a matter of practice then. And the more you mess with it, the, you know, the better you'll get.
But I think also it's like, you know, I want to point them to a lot of different tutorial resources. I have recs for that.
Houdinnerd.com is a website that I made that just links to a bunch of tutorials. But also another key part of learning is we have a discord on there that you can join where you can ask questions, and there's a lot of really helpful people in there that will, like, answer questions, including me.
But then when it comes to like Blender, I strongly recommend this guy, Joey Carlino's tutorials, who is really awesome and he's a good friend of mine now and he makes the tutorials that I wish existed when I first started learning 3D. Because when I first started learning 3D, it wasn't really a common thing for people to make short films on their own.
And that's really changed over the last 10 years, especially with Blender and all this sort of like accessibility of that. It used to be a prerequisite for learning 3D that you like had to know how to pirate software. You know, like, nobody's like paying for Maya, like, you know, like when they're like 15 years old, like you know, $3,000 a year or. It was probably more than that, honestly.
It's like you got to know how to pirate software, now you don't. Now you can just download Blender or the free version of Houdini or there's like probably a student version of Maya or whatever that you can download but don't learn Maya. Just get into Blender or Houdini or whatever.
And yeah, I think, you know, another big lesson that I would, I would give is it's like, you know, you. There's. There's two kinds of people that like, are successful that like have jobs and are like working in the industry.
One is people who are like totally just like motivated and self taught on their own. Self taught being a word that I don't really, I think is like a total misnomer but like, because nobody's really self taught.
[00:48:01] Speaker C: But you need to seek other places and things to learn.
[00:48:05] Speaker A: Yeah, you're learning from other people always. But like, but like you can, you can, you can watch tutorials on your own and like not go to school basically is really what self taught means. Like you can do that. You can. There's people, plenty of people in the industry that didn't go to school for this, that figured it out on their own who are like really ridiculously talented
[00:48:23] Speaker C: and motivated just like every part of the industry too.
[00:48:25] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah. And then on the flip side, you can be somebody who went to school for this and then also are self taught and did a lot of tutorials and extra things outside of your classes and stuff. But there's zero people working in an industry who just showed up to their classes, did the homework and went home. You know, like, it's like you gotta be like passionate about this stuff and like doing this stuff on your own to be able to really like know like get to where you want to be with it.
[00:48:52] Speaker B: So can we break down the. The. The Street Race video? Can we, like, dig into that? That might be fun.
Because I feel like you've. You've gone above and beyond, like, arming the listener with, like, the proper resources and. And tools to get started. And, like, I think it'd be interesting to hear about, like.
Cause we can. We can see the final product. Like, it's out. It's crushing it, obviously, on social media, but, like, to hear about kind of the genesis of that project and, like, what it actually looks like to take a project from an idea to 20 million views on Instagram.
[00:49:27] Speaker A: So the genesis of that project is, like, 2018.
I came up with this idea.
I bounced it off my friend Ryan Inez, who's an awesome animator in New York, who I went to RISD with, and he tweaked the idea a bit and made it a lot better, I think.
And the idea at that time was it's a short about a woman with a baby and a stroller, and she gets into a drag race with a guy, like, who, like, you know, pulls up to the light next to her, and then they both are racing each other, and she's. She's running with the baby. So it wasn't the baby, like, on its own. And then the baby, eventually, she's going really fast, the race amps up, she hits a rock, and then the baby goes flying out. And the baby flies out. And then my friend's tweak was the baby flies out, grows into a full adult, and then lands. And then, like, a graduation cap and gown, like, falls on him, and the mom goes over and, like, hugs the baby, and it's like, a really wholesome ending.
And I thought that was so funny. And I.
I pitched that actually to Adult Swim at the time, and they were like, this is too wholesome, like. And I was like, damn, well, I'll make something else instead. Then I made a couple other shorts with them, which I'm also really proud of.
Some shorts I made with my friend Tom Goulet, who I'm excited to make some more shorts with, hopefully soon.
There were these live action CG hybrid shorts.
[00:51:05] Speaker C: I love those, by the way. Those are fantastic.
[00:51:08] Speaker A: Thank you. Yeah.
And, yeah, hopefully you'll get to see more of those soon.
But we.
So then that idea was kind of dormant in my mind for, like, years.
And then this year, this past year, 2025, I got hit up by one of my heroes, this guy Vernon Chapman, who is just an absolute, like, genius. Writer.
I have kind of a rule of I don't want to, like, work for or like under or be told how to do my job, like, be directed by people who aren't animators. And the, like, one exception that I would make would be for Vernon Chapman because he's done so many ridiculously sick animated projects, even though he's just a writer that are, like, incredible and, like, huge inspirations for me.
One of the biggest ones is this short film that totally changed my life called the External world by David O'Reilly that Vernon wrote with him.
Another one is he was like a, you know, one of the main writers on south park for like, a long time. He did the voice of Tali. He made this show called Wonder Chosen the show called Xavier Renegade Angel. He was the head writer of, like, Louie back when that was a show.
He also made this really awesome show with my friend Cat Solon called the Shivering Truth.
And since moving to LA, I've met, like, David O'Reilly and I've met Kat, and I think both of them had recommended me to Vernon probably, which is how he heard of me.
[00:52:51] Speaker B: And.
[00:52:53] Speaker A: And so he reached out and he wanted me to make something for this episode of off the Air that he was curating. So off the Air is the show on Adult Swim where they have 10 minute episodes and they all have like a one word theme usually.
And it's just like a bunch of shorts that are licensed or curated and like commissioned based on that theme.
And so Vernon reached out to me. I happened to be in New York at the time where he is. So we met up and got a coffee and the episode was called Growth. And I was like, oh, well, I have this old idea that would be really funny here.
And so I pitched the idea to him and then we kind of, you know, like over the next couple of months, sort of like bounce ideas back and forth over the phone. Started the Animatic. I worked with Ryan a bit on it and then got my brother involved also. And they both kind of worked on the Animatic.
And then the idea morphed and Vernon came up with stuff like the guy exploding into babies at the end, which I loved, which was like, maybe one of my favorite effects shots I've ever got to work on. Now.
[00:54:02] Speaker C: It's a really cool shot.
[00:54:04] Speaker A: Thanks. Yeah.
And then, yeah, so started that and was really psyched about, like, getting to work with Vernon, like just again, a huge fan of him, and was doing the Animatic and modeling the characters and doing tests and, you know, Vernon was Like, oh, maybe he should be more of, like, a muscle guy instead of, like a business guy. And, you know, kept making all these different tweaks. I think Vernon working with him, like, it. It did add to the work because it was like we had to keep changing stuff, but it. It did make it a lot better.
[00:54:38] Speaker C: It's punching it up.
[00:54:39] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. Yeah. So.
So, yeah, it was like, that's part of the reason. The thing is so good is that we work with Vernon on it, and he's just, like, a total genius. And then the other.
The other thing was that I started getting really busy with projects, the ASAP Rocky thing, some other stuff that's not out yet.
And I was like, damn, I really want to, like, make this as good as possible.
Um, but I don't, like, have enough time to, like, fully produce this on my own. So I reached out to my friends at Tumblehead in Denmark, which is this ridiculously, like, talented studio that I've gone and, like, visited and worked with them before in person in this little town in Denmark called Vborg.
[00:55:31] Speaker B: There's a.
[00:55:31] Speaker A: There's a big animation community there because this animation school, there's.
Everybody there is really awesome. And I've been a huge fan and they've been an inspiration for me for a really long time.
Magnus, who runs Tumblehead, is, like, one of my best Internet animator friends who I met for the first time, like, a couple years ago at the Annecy Animation Festival.
And, yeah, he kind of introduced me to the rest of the team there.
And we made a short together, like the previous year, called Turbulence that we made for the company that makes Houdini. We kind of pitched them like, hey, let's make this short. And because again, Kim Davidson, who owns Houdini, is cool and is psyched about character animation, he was, like, down for it. And they funded the film, and that was a big learning experience. And we learned a lot. Side effects learned a lot from us beta testing the tools and stuff, the rigging and character animation tools specifically.
And they kind of built a whole new Houdini pipeline around everything. Whoa.
[00:56:37] Speaker C: Based on your process?
[00:56:39] Speaker A: Pretty much, yes. Yeah. Well, based on us figuring out all this stuff on this film.
And so we were able to have that film be a big R and D phase for Tumblehead. And then because they had done that, they were then able to, like, make this production, like, really fast and efficient, using all Houdini, basically.
And so I pitched. I pitched the idea to them. They were down for it.
I ended up putting a little bit of my own money into it, because I was like, this will just be worth it. And I'm super glad that I did.
And then, yeah, everybody on the team there is really awesome.
The full credits for that is. Is on my. On the YouTube upload of it. There's, like, you know, an extended, like, version of it, and I've just, like, sent it out to festivals and stuff. Now, in particular, like, I would want to give a shout out to Jesper, who modeled the. The muscle guy, and then also did all of the character animation in the short. He's, like, so insanely talented. And I feel like Tumblehead is kind of my secret weapon in a way, like, where I can, like, hire them for projects. And then Jesper is kind of like Tumblehead secret weapon in a way. But everybody there is, like, ridiculously talented also. Like, you just got to, you know, give a huge shout out to all of them.
[00:58:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:58:03] Speaker A: And they crushed it.
[00:58:04] Speaker B: And they.
[00:58:04] Speaker A: They. I believe the production for that was, like, close to a month and a half. It was, like, very, very short. Like, they're really, really fast again because of all the work that we did on this other project together.
Wow. So then, yeah, we sent it to Adult Swim, and then I, you know, made a few final tweaks for, like, my own version of the upload that I did. Really small things, like making, like, the delay, like, if you watch the version on Adult Swim, like, the baby, like, pauses for, like, a half a second longer than before he takes off, which is just, like, a note that my studio mate Arthur gave me that I thought was good. And then I added the credits and everything at the end and then sent it off to festivals and stuff. And then even before it got posted, I was, like, really psyched about it. And I was like, damn, I really want to make more stuff like this. And I would, like, totally pay more money out of my own pocket just to, like, make more cool things like this. If I can, like, come up with another cool idea that I'm psyched about.
[00:59:03] Speaker B: A clear through line through. Through all this, man. Like, aside from just you making a ton of awesome stuff for a long time and getting really good at it, is this, like, networking piece, it sounds like, you know, and like, like, the. You getting into this meeting with this amazing writer because of these two folks you met in la.
And I know Wyatt, I mean, like, I feel like that's. We talk about coffees and the importance of, like, networking and stuff a lot.
[00:59:33] Speaker C: And I think, yeah, something that's very clear is that it's just Kind of you being a fan of people and people being a fan of you. You know, it's you getting really good at your craft and just seeing something on, on YouTube or whatever and just like being like, hey, like, I admire your work. Like, let's chat.
[00:59:49] Speaker A: You know, it's always worth messaging people. Worst case scenario, it's flattering and they don't have time to meet or whatever.
[00:59:55] Speaker B: Like, are you, Are you messaging them to get coffee, to get food, to get. Hop on a phone call? Like, I'm working, working on something. Like, what do you. Is it always an ask like, what are you?
[01:00:05] Speaker A: I'm. I'm not often messaging people I haven't met before. Sometimes I will do that.
I'll be like, hey, I know I've done your stuff for a long time. Like, you know, I think we should really meet up at some point. I know you're in la, blah, blah, you know, or, hey, I would love to just like, chat at some point. Like, I'm a huge fan of your stuff. Like, blah, blah, like, totally cool to do that again. I would be flattered if someone did that for me. Like, you know, I'm down to kind of meet with who, Whoever.
I will say, I think I love doing these kind of meetings and things. Like, a little bit too much and it's really overwhelmed. Like, coming back to LA in January was awesome. Things were quiet and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna set up all these meetings. And then I, like, was like, I need to have time to work on my.
Yeah, so I'm trying to do less meetings, but I, I do still love meeting with people and I, like, I'm happy to schedule meetings out like a month in advance or whatever.
Trying to get better about using my calendar.
But yeah, definitely, like, you know, hitting people up cold, emailing people, whatever is great. Most of the time though, it's like I'm meeting somebody through somebody else and I'm like, oh, it would be awesome to meet you. A great thing that I can do in la, having an awesome studio space that I share with a bunch of people is, hey, you should come by the studio sometime and we should get lunch and like, I'll show you this really cool studio that I work at.
[01:01:18] Speaker C: That's so awesome. It's so cool to have that space, even like sharing the space with people. When you said that, I was like, oh, like, someday I would love to have like a shared space where even if you're not all collaborating on anything, it's just like, I'm finished With a cut. Let me show this to someone. Then bam, they give you the note that the baby should, you know, start a second later. Like, so much. It's so great.
[01:01:39] Speaker A: And you're just around people and you think of them to hire them for projects more often. Me and Will and Hugo at the studio, like, they're often doing a lot of, like, tour visuals and stuff. And they'll hire me every year for, like, Coachella stuff. And then I'll hire them for commercial stuff or music videos. I brought them out of the ASAP Rocky video, for example.
But. But yeah, the funny other thing, though is, you know, I'll like, you know, sometimes like, like, you know, I might have like, some. A phone number of, like, someone who I'm like, I shouldn't really bug them, but I do want to, like, catch up with them at some point or, like, you know, it's been a while. Like, it'd be worth, like, just shooting them a text. Like, you know, they're probably too big of a deal for me or whatever, but I'll, like, send out texts and be like, hey, like, you know, just saw this sick movie you produced or just saw this thing or whatever, blah, blah. Would love to, like, you know, catch up sometime. Like, congrats, blah, blah, blah.
And then like, not get a response, you know, maybe never get a response, you know, or like, not get a response for months and then they'll, like, respond.
But the great thing is, like, when. Then you put out something really sick, like the ASAP Rocky video, you get all these texts that are like, oh, shit, sorry, I missed your last text. Just on the ASAP Rocky video. Super sick. We got to get coffee or something.
[01:02:53] Speaker C: But, but here's the thing, like, the thing that I would say, because we talk a lot about networking on this podcast, is it can't just be that, like, you're not going to get. You're going to. Not going to make a career based on networking.
You're going to make a career based on getting really good at something. And by the way, that's for, like, you got to master Houdini and, you know, make funny, great shorts that are unique style.
[01:03:18] Speaker A: Like, we've.
[01:03:19] Speaker C: We've gone through all of that.
And then you're able to be like, oh, like, I'm inspired by this person. Let me reach out to this. Like, I think we need to clarify which happens first.
[01:03:29] Speaker B: And those wrecks wouldn't have happened unless they trusted you, you know, like, have seen your work. Like, there's.
[01:03:36] Speaker C: Exactly.
[01:03:36] Speaker B: Maybe it's like, oh, like, yeah, you could probably figure it out. And then it's like, you. You mess up.
[01:03:41] Speaker C: And that was hence the reason why everybody is responding to you when you finally made this, you know? But that's how it is, you know?
[01:03:48] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I mean, like, yeah, if you haven't ever made anything before, don't hit me up to collab with me, obviously. Like, but if you are a student and you haven't really made anything and you're trying to do cool stuff and you're like, hey, I'm a really big fan, like, you know, I would love to, like, interview you for my podcast or something. Like, I'll totally do that. That's awesome. Like, I. I remember being on some Pratt students podcast a couple years ago and now I like, occasionally, like, run into them at festivals or see them, like, working at, like, studios, and I'm like, oh, what's up? Like, I, you know, it's like, it's like a totally good connection building thing. Like, you know, Definitely. Also, like, yeah, having a podcast as an excuse to reach out to people is. Is awesome, dude.
[01:04:29] Speaker B: It's the best. It's the best.
[01:04:30] Speaker C: Also, what I will say is making a podcast is work. It is putting in the work. You know, like, Luke and I care a lot about this project, and I think it's nice that we have, you know, 40 episodes now to show people.
[01:04:44] Speaker A: No, totally. I mean, that's the reason I'm not doing is I don't have the time to put in work to another thing. But I would love to theoretically, you know, do something like that. Or I would love to, like, run a event or a festival or do a screening or something like that. Like, sometime I'll find the time to do that, because I think that that's an important, important thing for me to do in this mission of, like, just wanting to inspire people to make cool stuff.
But yeah, definitely, like, you got to put in the work one way or another, whether it's making stuff or, you know, like.
Or like, ideally a combination of a handful of different things, like, you know, filmmaking and doing a podcast or hosting a screening or, you know, like, whatever. Like, have, like, multiple things you can be known for, not be a narrowly focused person. I think is good.
But also I think I benefit a lot from just being really psyched about stuff. Really, like, having a lot of fun exploring and figuring things out and then being really psyched to just, like, share that with people and, like, talk about it and, like, post about it on all the different social medias and whatever and, like, make tutorials. Like, so many great connections I'm sure, have come out of me making tutorials that I don't, like, even realize. Like, you know, and I also feel like if I'm like, you know, people are, like, looking for, like, a Houdini artist at a studio or whatever, and I need a job, and I'm, like, emailing them, like, hey, I'd love to do this. Like, well, if they recognize me from my tutorials, then they're gonna be like, oh, this guy knows what he's talking about. Like, let's do this guy. Like, even if we don't know him, you know?
So, yeah, it just helps people get to know me. And then, like, yeah, definitely. Like, I super strongly recommend, like, if you're ever, like, I figured out this cool thing, and I haven't seen a thing of this before, make, like, a tutorial about it. Like, you know, or if you're like, I know how to make this in a more clear and concise way than what I've seen out there. Make a tutorial about it. Post it online. Like, anything you're excited about. Share.
[01:06:38] Speaker C: I love that. That's great advice.
[01:06:40] Speaker A: It's beneficial, and I totally. There's. There's a mentality that a lot of people still have understandably, of, like, more of a scarcity mindset, or, like, oh, I'm competing with all these people for these jobs, or, you know, I don't want to give away my secrets or things like that.
And I think that that's just ultimately not nearly. I think that's ultimately kind of detrimental to, like, you know, the end goal of, like, having a successful career. And you're a lot better off being really open. But that's just been my approach, and I found it's worked really well for me. And I don't think I could be a more secretive, mysterious kind of artist person who's not, like, sharing stuff.
[01:07:19] Speaker C: Sure. Well, it's been such a pleasure to get to know you on such an artistic, profound level, but also get your view on producing and networking and everything.
We do always ask one question to our guests. And, Luke, I'll let you ask that question.
[01:07:39] Speaker B: It's a simple one, and I feel like you have kind of mentioned it throughout this episode, but maybe there's. We can ask it again, you know, and that's simply, what is the dream?
[01:07:51] Speaker A: Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, that's a great question, because it's like, I could make up, like, what the dream project is or something like that. Like, but it's funny, I.
And you know, I'm very privileged to be able to say this, but I feel like I am always ending up getting to work on stuff that's cooler than anything I ever could have imagined. And I'm like, always just psyched about the opportunities that come out of these different kind of collaborations and things like that. And I feel like some of the things that I'm working on right now, some of the things I'm helping produce or whatever, are the projects that I'm most excited to see come out. In general, surely. Yeah, there's people that I would love to collaborate with more who I haven't had the chance to work with as much yet.
Some, like, heroes and stuff like that.
Alan Resnick is like a filmmaker, animator person who I like. I'm a huge fan of who, you know, I met and I know him pretty well now at this point, but, like, you know, would love to work with him more at some point. We worked a little, a tiny bit together in the past on Egg Land, this Adult Swim pilot thing that I'm really proud of. Still worked on it with like, a bunch of really talented people.
But yeah, I don't know, I think the dream would be, like, do some kind of collaboration with, like, all of the coolest, most talented people together. Figure out how to get them all together on one project in a way that just like, makes a lot of sense.
And I don't know exactly what that would look like or that could ever happen. But know, in the meantime, I'm excited to just kind of keep collaborating with people and, and, and seeing where it goes. And like, you know, I'm just. I get more excited than anything about, like, friends, really cool ideas that I can grab onto and, and get stoked about, you know, as opposed to like, any like, dream project in the back of my mind that I have, like, as a, as a fun, silly animation idea. I think for myself, I'm more interested in, on my own, making more like, short form stuff and not really, like, writing my own big feature or anything like that, but I would love to help get more features and things made with other people. And like, I love when people bounce their ideas off of me because it's like so easy for me to just like, react and be like, oh, here's a bunch of thoughts I have. I love, like, reading a friend's script and just like writing tons of notes and like, not filtering anything, just like, saying everything comes out of my mind.
[01:10:22] Speaker B: I'm sure they love that. Yeah, yeah.
[01:10:24] Speaker A: Exactly. It's like, why. Why. Why should I filter this? I'm sure they can filter it themselves. Like, you know, take a grain of salt or whatever.
But. But, yeah, I don't know. I'm like, I don't know what the dream project is, and I'm excited to see the next, like, exciting thing to come across. My email inbox or whatever.
[01:10:42] Speaker B: Amazing, man. Well, thank you so much.
It really has been super insightful and. And educational.
I mean, you are a teacher, so it makes sense. But I'm. I'm like, I want to go download Blender and Houdini now, you know, like, and I have the. The tutorials to do it, so. Thank you so much for coming on, man.
[01:11:03] Speaker C: Thank you, dude. Appreciate it.
[01:11:05] Speaker A: Pleasure. And definitely, if you guys are around Highland Park, Glassell park, definitely hit me up. Come by this. Hell, yeah. Get a coffee or something.
[01:11:12] Speaker B: Dude, that'd be amazing.
[01:11:14] Speaker C: Would love to see the studio. We just got to get Luke over to the east side at some point.
[01:11:17] Speaker A: That's something.
[01:11:18] Speaker C: That's the real dream of this podcast. Just get Luke.
[01:11:25] Speaker B: Did you learn something? I'm like your mom. Did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging. Make sure you follow us at the 5050Fest on Instagram and give us five stars, because. Why not? Why not subscribe? Why not? You know why not? Okay, bye.
