Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Now that directing is my job, and I make my money from directing, and sometimes that means that I'm doing, like, a project that's so important to me and is feeding my heart and soul. And I, like, feel really passionate about sharing with people. And then sometimes I'm, like, assistant directing something that's not as important to me. But no matter what, there's that sensation of, like, I cannot believe all these people came here. That is ridiculous. Like, wow, you all. You all got on the A train and came to Midtown and, like, thank you for doing that. Like, I should pay you for doing that. That's amazing.
But I also. Yeah, I think there's like, this energetic exchange that is, like, really special and that sometimes I think just because, like, theater professionals do it all the time, like, we do take it for granted. So it's nice to hear you say that.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: I'm Luke Steinfeld.
[00:00:51] Speaker C: And I'm Wyatt Sarkisian.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: We made the 5050 podcast to support you on your filmmaking journey.
[00:00:55] Speaker C: 50% business. 50, 50% creative.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: Every Tuesday, a new how to.
[00:01:00] Speaker C: This week, we talk with visionary theater director Britt Burke. She's currently serving as associate director of the Wild Duck by Henrik Ibsen, which is playing at Theater for a New Audience in Brooklyn through September 28th. Ladies and gentlemen, here's Britt.
[00:01:20] Speaker A: Do you guys just see everything because you're, like, film lovers who have committed your lives to this art form.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: I try to, for sure, but I also. I love Aronofsky, the director Darren Arofsky.
[00:01:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: And I. I actually just went to the 15th anniversary black swan in IMAX. They had, like, a whole awesome anniversary series happening in, like, LA and New York, I'm sure a few other spots, but such a good movie. If you've seen.
[00:01:49] Speaker A: I love Black Swan. I have seen it, and I do love it. I think, like, as a girl who grew up doing, like, theater and kind of, like, in that world of, like, competition and neurotic young women, Black Swan. Not skippable. Had to see it.
[00:02:02] Speaker C: Totally. So wait, first of all, this is Brit Burke.
She is a theater director living in New York, living the dream. And we like to bring theater people on the podcast because it's where it all started, right?
And we get to nerd out about theater. And Luke gets to play audience surrogate in a lot of ways, too, because he's a little less experienced with theater. So he gets.
But he asks great questions, and I'm kind of somewhere in the middle. Like, I love theater so much, but I'm out in la where there's obviously a lot more film and TV stuff, and I work in film and tv, so.
[00:02:44] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:02:44] Speaker C: And theater people are obviously so passionate, and it's such a world out there in New York. So we are really excited to have you on.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: I'm very excited to be on. I've been listening to your episodes the last few days, and I've been getting really excited.
[00:02:58] Speaker C: You said that you grew up doing theater, and in that whole world, we were talking about Black Swan and everything around intense theater people.
Weirdly, theater was so. It's intense even when you're young, you know?
[00:03:12] Speaker A: Yeah. It's a commitment to a lifetime of being intense and insecure and neurotic.
[00:03:17] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:03:18] Speaker A: I think.
[00:03:18] Speaker C: Well, I'm curious about what theater was like growing up and everything and where you grew up and how you got started.
[00:03:24] Speaker A: I grew up on Long island in this, like, small Irish Catholic town. And at the time, I was like, I'm so misunderstood. Like, no one gets me. And looking back, it was just like, the most simple, beautiful, easy childhood ever. And I still have, like, 15 best friends from high school. Like, everything was fine, but it was kind of like a sports town where it was, like, a little weird to do theater. Not that I was, like, ostracized or, like, bullied in the school bathroom, but it was just, like, not the priority at the school. But there were a lot of really great opportunities. And my mom, like, threw me into a theater class when I was four years old, and I just really loved it and kind of, like, was an annoying theater kid for my all of the formative years. Like, I feel like if you talked to someone who I went to middle school with, they'd be like, she was so fucking annoying. But we've come out on the other side, hopefully, and it was just like a.
I feel like what I liked about it was that it's all about asking questions. And I mean that in, like, both ways. Like, it was about asking questions about the actual play. You know, you could be in, like, a production of Cabaret in your high school, and suddenly you're talking about sexuality and oppression in a way that maybe you weren't in other parts of your life. Like, it felt like the subject matter let you be really curious. And then also you were asking questions about, like, the big picture making of the thing, which I think was satisfying to me in some way. Maybe in some way. It was, like, a way to feel, like, creativity or control. But, like, I thought it was exciting that, like, if you all move your arm at the same time on the same note that creates something in our synapses, in our brains that is, like, beautiful and, like, makes us feel an.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: Emotion as an audience, you're saying, or on stage, like, doing.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: Okay, well, good question. Great question. Wow, you guys are good at this. I think I was always looking at it from an audience perspective. So I think, like, I grew up acting because I had no idea you could be a director for a job. And I would sometimes be like, wow, one day I'm going to direct the shows at my daughter's high school. Like, I didn't realize professional directing was like, a thing that can happen.
[00:05:25] Speaker C: Right? Interesting.
[00:05:26] Speaker A: I was like, you just have to like, be an actor to go to rehearsal. So I think, like, I was always kind of secretly thinking about it from the audience perspective, but I was on stage from the age of like 4 to whatever, 18 or 20.
[00:05:37] Speaker C: That's interesting. So did you always sort of have a knack for directing or an awareness of the audience is perceiving this and it should be presented in. In a.
In a way that's, you know, that asks these questions.
[00:05:53] Speaker A: I feel like saying I have a knack for it is like, way too generous to my child brain or my, Even my current brain. But I think I always. I always wanted to be in rehearsal, but I didn't really get anything out of like, going on stage and performing. Like, I think I was interested in the ritual and the magic of making the thing.
And I'm like, glad that directing is the career that means you can do that. Like, I'm glad that it came together, that that was a job you could do. Were you guys theater kids when you were young? I feel like you must have been theater kids if you're film kids now.
[00:06:25] Speaker C: I definitely was.
[00:06:27] Speaker B: I don't. I know why. Yeah, why? It was for sure. But I was going to say, well, Wyatt and I went to. We've grown up together, but we went to a school in Los Angeles that, like, I guess everyone kind of has, like, school plays and stuff. But we definitely were put on stage.
[00:06:45] Speaker C: Like a good amount against our will.
Against our will.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: What was the school?
It's called Brentwood in. In Los Angeles. But I mean, would you call it like a. We definitely had sports too.
[00:06:57] Speaker C: Like, it was, you know, it was a. It wasn't a performing arts school, but it did have. I think just maybe because of LA and the strong alumni network and parents in entertainment and stuff like that. I think there was definitely like a.
There wasn't really a film program, you know, like, there was. It Was more so, like, theater is your. Is your artistic expression in terms of performing arts.
[00:07:24] Speaker A: But did you have, like, the morning announcements or something? Like, where were the film kids hanging out? Where were you getting your kick?
[00:07:30] Speaker B: I. I honestly like to answer on the film side of things, I really only, like, became a, in quotes, film kid. Like, I didn't really realize or understand that was, like, a film thing until I went to USC in Los Angeles and, like, understood that, like. Like you said of like, oh, wow, directing is like a career. I can do this.
Kind of felt the same with film, of growing up surrounded by it in Los Angeles. I never really put two and two together of like, oh, this can be a job. Like, I can actually do this. It just was, like, surrounded by it. And like, yeah, I love movies. I never thought really twice about it until I went to usc.
[00:08:06] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah, that makes sense. And I feel like it's like, why would, you know? Like, I didn't know any theater directors. I don't know if you knew film directors, but I just had no idea it was something you could get paid to do or that you could study to do until I was kind of, like, well into high school. Like, I had to have a teacher kind of point out to me that directing was a thing you could do.
[00:08:29] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, what was that? Was it a specific moment that that that happened and you were like, oh, this is like a. This is a job, and this is, like, a role that I could fill.
[00:08:39] Speaker A: I think I feel like when I was a junior or senior, I got, like, a really small part in a play, and the director was like, do you want to, like, be my assistant director? And I was like, yes. Oh, my God, I get to go to every rehearsal. Like, I couldn't believe how lucky I was that someone would want me to be at every single rehearsal and then, like, would want to hear my thoughts on the play. So I think that kind of kicked off the feeling of really loving that.
[00:09:03] Speaker C: Yeah, it really is a. I mean, I love that sentiment of, I just want to be a part of it, you know, I just want to be in that room as much as possible.
[00:09:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:14] Speaker C: I love physical spaces and being in a theater and just, like. And the difference between theater and film in a lot of ways. Well, there's so many differences. But rehearsal, right? Like, you get to live in the space and rehearse in the place that you're performing. And with film, time is money to such an extent that you get a couple maybe, like, an hour of rehearsal or whatever, and then you're doing it, and then you have to leave that location. Right? Because someone else. It's someone else's property or whatever, you know? So theater is such a unique environment.
A weird thing. Like, every single show that I go to, I have this moment. Even if it's, like, a not so great show, you know, I have this moment of. Of after the audience is, like, standing up and leaving. I try to just stay in the space for, like, a second longer.
[00:10:04] Speaker A: That's so silly.
[00:10:05] Speaker C: Well, it sounds, like, so cheesy, but just, like. Because there's this, like, energy that is still there, you know, that everybody has turned their back on. And if you just stay in the theater for a second longer, like, it's like this magic that's still, like, occurring on the stage. You know what I mean?
So do you feel that? I mean, that's what you wanted to be a part of, right?
[00:10:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah, I do. I do feel it. I feel like now that it really is, like, directing is my job, and I make my money from directing. And sometimes that means that I'm doing, like, a project that's so important to me and is feeding my heart and soul. And I, like, feel really passionate about sharing with people. And then sometimes I'm, like, assistant directing, something that's not as important to me. But no matter what, there's that sensation of, like, I cannot believe all these people came here. That is ridiculous. Like, wow, you all. You all got on the A train and came to Midtown, and, like, thank you for doing that. Like, I should pay you for doing that. That's amazing.
But I also. Yeah, I think there's, like, this energetic exchange that is, like, really special and that sometimes I think just because, like, theater professionals do it all the time, like, we do take it for granted, so.
[00:11:17] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:11:18] Speaker A: To hear you say that. There's this show. Do you guys know the play? It's called Stupid Fucking Bird. It's by Aaron Posner.
[00:11:23] Speaker C: No.
[00:11:25] Speaker A: It's kind of like a modern telling of the seagull. The play is. I mean, it's a great play, but there's just this one line in it where the guy is, like, direct address to the audience. I bet you're all gonna turn your phones back on before you even leave the theater today.
And so, like, I really do try, when I see plays, to at least keep the phone off until I'm a block away from the theater. Not because of any, like, dedication or obligation, but just because I'm like, wow, someone just performed for me for two and a half hours. Like, Let me sit with that. Let me sit with that for a little while. Let me, like, hold that feeling before I check who texted me while I was in there.
[00:12:03] Speaker C: Totally, totally. I think specifically, you know, more so in the film space these days. But it's that same, like, we are so lucky to be doing this, you know, like, we're so. It's so. It's unbelievable that we get to, like, make movies and put work out and, like, be able to have so much fun and then do it. And it's just, like, I get it, right, because now it's your day job and you forget about the specialness of it. So I try to remind myself of that when I'm, like, scheduling meetings and, you know, there's giving notes and reading a zillion scripts and all that stuff. That just feels so, like, dreary sometimes. But it's important to remind yourself those things.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: We had Rachel Brodsky on our podcast not too long ago.
She's a pop culture writer and music writer, but we spoke a lot about, like, for Rolling Stone and, like, big, big stuff. She's interviewed some really awesome people, like Ava Victor, if you watch.
[00:13:05] Speaker A: Yeah, of course. Loved it.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: Mikey Madison. Like, the list goes on with Rachel, but we were talking a lot about the difference of, like, just being an audience member or a reader and, like, the difference of being passive consumption versus, like, very active consumption. And all it takes is just being like, yes, you read something, and it's like, I like this, or, I don't like this. But then it's just a very simple, like, okay, why?
You know, and, like, letting yourself not go on your phone and be distracted immediately after something.
Same applies for a movie, too. Like, why you saying you're sitting a little bit that second after a play ends? It's like the credits are rolling. Like, you're seeing who the grips are.
The hundreds of people.
[00:13:49] Speaker C: People get so annoyed. When you want to. When you want to stay, though.
Especially in a movie theater, for some reason, everybody's just racing to get out. But, yeah, they are racing, but that is important. Like, look at the credits. Look to see who made it. You know, just, like, little things like that to find appreciation.
[00:14:06] Speaker B: Even just giving yourself that time to, like, pause and say, okay, wait, let me think about what I just saw. How do I feel about this? And that, I'm sure, directly applies to your own directing of, like, what you like, what you don't like.
[00:14:20] Speaker A: Yeah, it does. I feel like I like when I see theater, which I do a lot, like, constantly.
I am Trying. I guess I am trying to actively pontificate on it for a while after. Even if it's not the type of play that is, like, living emblazoned in my mind, I'm still trying to be, like, brushing my teeth. Like, okay, that was interesting. Like, even if I hated it, right? I'm trying. And I'm sure you guys do this with films where I'm like, what about that play? Like, offended something deep within me. Was it just confusing or did it not pay attention to, like, one of my artistic values? Or was it neglectful of something that I thought was important? Or was that actor not very good for that part? Like, I'm kind of looking for the thing, and I think theater is weird because. And I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this. Like, theater is interpretive, right? So we're all supposed to look at the same plays over and over again. Ibsen, Pinter, Shakespeare, for example. And have, like, different interpretations of them, take the exact same text and mount it in different ways with different people, different visions. And film, obviously not so much, right? You're not all taking breakfast at Tiffany's and making it over and over again.
So sometimes when I see a play, I have a lot of feelings of like, this is how I would have done it. This is how I might do it in the future. Like, there's a lot of.
That's a really fertile place for thinking because you're like, oh, I actually literally could direct that. I could direct it in five months, and this is how I would do it to make it make more sense for me.
But are you guys feeling that after you see a movie? Like, are you having that feeling of, I wish I had made it, and I wish I had made it this way?
[00:16:00] Speaker C: It's a very director brain thing that you're doing. I feel like, Luke, do you feel that way when you see something and do you think about the choices the director made and if you would have done something different?
[00:16:12] Speaker B: I mean, cod stealing, I left being, like, thinking about the script, like, the writing process with that.
But before I, like, I don't know. Your question has brought up a question in me of, like, when you are doing Romeo and Juliet, right? Something that's been done so many times, like, how are you able to kind of put your own voice into that? Like, how are you?
Again, I'm not a theater guy. I don't watch a ton of different Romeo and Juliet with, like, different directors. I don't really think about that. Like, for you mention that it's like, how do you make something stand out? Like, are you casting? Are you. Like, is it the stage? Yeah.
Like, how do you insert your own unique voice into something that's so specific or universal already or something?
[00:17:02] Speaker A: No, totally. And that's, like, the question at the center of theater that I think we've all been asking for, like, since it was created. But I think it's about finding your obsession or, like, way into the text. Like, last year, I directed All My Sons by Arthur Miller. Like, everyone knows All My Sons by Arthur Miller. Everyone has a lot of ideas in their head, the schema of who Arthur Miller is and what his plays are about. So I was just like. I read his autobiography, which is very long and weird. Weird read, if you're ever in the mood for that. And I kind of. When I'm directing a play by a dead playwright, I kind of pretend I'm dating them. I'm like, ooh, like, what are your quirks? Like, what are you into? Like, I'm kind of trying to, like, get to know Arthur Miller and then to, like, have a relationship to him that illuminates the text.
And, like, with that play specifically, I just couldn't believe how much it was about the women in the play trying to create their own realities. I was really astounded. I was just like, wow, the entire play is about these mothers and daughters and wives who are like, my actual reality is so disappointing to me that I am going to, like, through sheer force, create a better one that I believe in.
So then I'm kind of, like, approaching the play through that angle, and that's feeding into everything. It's like, how I'm talking to the actors and how I want the scenes to feel and even the design process. I'm like, okay, maybe it's not a literal backyard. Maybe it's this woman's imagination of what she would like her backyard to be like, and all these people are existing within it.
So I feel like that is, like, the art of theater is trying to find your specific thing that fascinates you and then making your cast, like, fall in love with whatever that is. Right? Because, like, I was working with. With, like, NYU grad students, and, like, maybe they don't all see the play like that. Maybe some of them are like, for me, this play is about capitalism. And I'm like, totally. Yeah, that's in there, but that's not what I'm interested in.
[00:19:00] Speaker C: Right?
[00:19:00] Speaker A: So then you have to kind of, like, seduce your collaborators, in a way, into seeing your vision and into not Just seeing your vision, but, like, wanting to create it with you, which I think absolutely happens in film. But I feel like the advantage when you're a filmmaker is that maybe you've written the script. Maybe it's something you've been birthing for five years. And then, of course, everyone's going to be like, yeah, I think your vision is the right one.
[00:19:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:25] Speaker A: But in theater, there's, like, kind of a dance you need to do to find what it. What every play means for you.
[00:19:32] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's also a little more stripped down in terms of. It's the people saying these lines rather than.
There's a lot more you can do with stuff visually, on camera, and you can show objects and different angles and things.
Obviously, the actors are important, but theater is very much person to person and that sort of connection. I'm curious what that collaboration actually looks like. Right. Because you are. You have a vision. And so if you want to just, like, take us through, you know, specifically with all my sons. Right. Like, what is. What does that look like?
[00:20:12] Speaker A: It looks like. And you have to stop me if you're like, this is boring. Just be like, brit, stop.
[00:20:17] Speaker C: Great. We will.
[00:20:19] Speaker A: Thank you. Please, just. Just swerve. Okay.
For something like that, it looks like I read the script. I, like, annotate it. Hearts and stars and stuff and little thoughts. Or I'm making annotations, like, lol, this is crazy. And then I'm, like, pulling from other things, like. Right. Arthur Miller's autobiography or maybe like, a documentary about him. I'm doing, like, all this research, and it's all in my head, and I feel crazy. And then you start your design process, which is when you meet with, like, your set, sound, lighting, and costume designers and start to, like, visualize what it might actually be like. And you also feel crazy during that part because your, like, language is so limited. And then they start to bring in images. I'm positive this happens in film, too. Right. Because I've actually made a few short films now, and it is like this. But I feel like with theater, there's.
What's the distinction? I feel like with theater, your designers need to understand the text really well. Do you feel like that with film, too? Or do you feel like you can.
Do you feel like it doesn't have. I feel like with theater, I'm like, I actually need my designer to, like, read the play and have, like, developed their own point of view and questions about it before we can even talk about it.
[00:21:40] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, it comes back to, like, this is a text that's been interpreted so many times, and it's a text that was written so long ago that stood the test of time. You know, film. Film is kind of like, it's written in the past few years, and it's going to happen, and then it's like, nobody's redoing. Even if you remake a movie, you're rewriting the script, you know, which is not something you're doing in theater.
[00:22:03] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Yes. That's so true. Right. And, like, part of that design process, too, is, like, doing production research, like, looking at. Right. Like, for the production of A Doll's House Part two, you just saw. They're probably looking at the Broadway production.
[00:22:15] Speaker C: You're going to, like, not for.
[00:22:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, not for inspiration, but even just to be like, okay, like, this is what came before us.
Let's find our own way. Or, let's be guided by this. Like, you have to know so much about the history of the play.
[00:22:28] Speaker C: So did you do that for All My Sons? Did you, like, go to, like, the Lincoln center library and you were, like, looking at those old tapes and everything? Yeah, yeah, There we go.
[00:22:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I went to the Lincoln center library. Like, but also, you don't want to watch, like, because I'm like, oh, my God. I don't want to see the scenes. Like, that's crazy.
[00:22:44] Speaker C: Absolutely.
Even, like, acting in high school, I was like, I cannot watch. Watch a single other performance for the part I'm playing because I'll get to, you know, swayed one way. I need to discover it myself, you know?
[00:22:57] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. It's like, I don't want to see it, but I want to look around it. Like, I almost want to be, like, looking at it from, like, the corner of my eye. Like, oh, I'm not. I'm not even looking, but, like, I want to know what this set looked like and what the director said about it and what the reviews were like. You have to put yourself into this, like, mania, just gathering information to try to, like, understand the thing that you're holding in your hands.
[00:23:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: So all of that happens, and then you get actors, and then you start the process again.
[00:23:24] Speaker B: Sorry to cut you off here, but.
[00:23:26] Speaker A: No, please, cut me off.
[00:23:27] Speaker B: Set of a vision. Do you have going into those first kind of meetings of, like, what the stage is going to look like or what the build will look like, or are you very open and you're just like, I have almost, like, the essence or, like, the intention of what I'm going for. And, like, these characters are Thinking this. And so a backyard. I don't know. What do you guys think? And, like, letting them be like, well, maybe it's her imagination of that because you sent us the script and your thoughts on it. Like, how are you going into that conversation with how much confidence in your vision at that time?
[00:23:59] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question.
I think that, like, the very first meeting with the designers is literally, I'm like, these are my three fascinations with the play.
Is any of this sticking for you guys? Like, it's kind of a.
I'm obsessed with this.
Do you have stakes in that obsession? Let's talk about it. Like, the first meeting is so conceptual. Or maybe it's a feeling. Like, maybe I'm like.
My Off Broadway directorial debut was the show called Becomes a Woman. And for that one, my first design conversation, I was like, all I know is that I want the lighting to be impacted by how the main character is feeling. And I was like, I don't know what the lights look like. I don't know what shape they are. I don't know what colors they are. But I know that I really want to track her emotions, and I might get lost otherwise, because it was, like, a play written in, like, the 1920s, that it was its first time ever being produced. But it's a really old text. So I was like, the language. Yeah, it was really interesting. It was a great process. But I was like, the language here is actually not super accessible to the audience. But what is accessible is this woman's journey through the play. So if there's, like, a design element that can bring that out, then that's really amazing.
And then my designers have to go away and be like.
Like, my designer for that production, her name is M.L. geiger. She came back with the idea of these, like, paper lanterns that would just hang right above the set. And the set was kind of naturalistic. Everything looked tangible, literal, real. But then right above it, there were these lanterns that could change all different colors.
And it was just so helpful and surreal and weird and inspiring.
And it's like. And then I can go to the actors and be like, yes, we're kind of doing naturalism or realism, but I also have this surreal element that might inform some moments of this, and, like, that helps ground the actors and what I'm trying to do, too.
[00:25:56] Speaker B: And you saying that is one thing, but then them being on stage and seeing those lanterns and. And feeling that is like, a whole nother. Yeah, it's cool. Peter's so collaborative. Obviously, like, film but yeah, so you're, you're casting actors. You said you have the conversation with design.
[00:26:12] Speaker A: You have the conversation then. Yeah, sometimes you get to cast it for this for all my sons. I didn't get to cast it because it was a university show. So I like arrived and I have these like amazing grad students and I'm like actually kind of feeling nervous because they, they sometimes bring in like extremely esteemed, accoladed, award winning directors to work with them. And I'm like, hi, I'm exactly your age. Like, let's make an Arthur Miller play together. But then I'm trying to, you know, I'm like, okay, Arthur Miller was like 29 when he wrote All My Sons. I'm like, he was just some guy who is that, like, let's not freak out. Let's just, just treat him like he's like one of our friends and he's just like some 29 year old guy, like, who cares?
[00:26:51] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: So I'm trying to make it feel like, yeah, we're just going to make this play, like whatever.
Also trying to be like, I am deeply passionate about this core element of this play and I want you all to be passionate too. And then, you know, like you do all your table work, which I feel like is not film world, although maybe it is. Do you guys do table work when you start your processes?
[00:27:14] Speaker C: What is it? Depends. It depends what it is.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: Table work is when you sit around tables and you read the script and you talk about it in different ways. Like some directors want to talk about like beats or events or entrances and exits. Some directors want to talk about questions, some directors want to talk about history. You kind of find your way in, but you can do it for a really long time in theater. Like you could do it for a week if you wanted to of your five week rehearsal process. Just sit and talk about the play.
[00:27:47] Speaker C: Yeah, I feel like, I mean in terms of film, there's obviously like a table read. Right. Which is similar in a way that's kind of just an exercise that's done like once or a couple of times. But there's also like a script breakdown. Right. Where you budget things out. Like that could be potentially something like that.
[00:28:05] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: This sounds almost like like very, like you said, it's in the rehearsal process. Almost like when a director sits down with actors to like talk about a scene though, I don't know, like, and think about the blocking and stuff like that. I'm not sure there's like a set, structured time.
[00:28:22] Speaker A: Crazy.
[00:28:22] Speaker B: The ability to do that. But that sounds awesome. So you said that could take a full week.
[00:28:28] Speaker A: If you want it to, you don't have to do it. But I like to do it because I want to talk about the play. And then it pays off because then you get on your feet to, like, start playing around with staging, and you're like, oh, well. In Table Work, we talked about how my character, for example, like, my character hasn't eaten all day. So, like, maybe my character needs to sit down because they're hungry or, like, famished. Like, really simple things that are like, duh. Like, duh. That is the circumstance of the scene. But maybe you figured it out in table work because you were talking about it. It's funny because when I was. I directed a short film in London last year, and I was like, okay, so it's time to do table work. Like, you know, let's, like, rehearse and, like, look at the script. And two of the actors were like, we just want to feel it out on the day. Like, we don't want blocking. We don't want to, you know, like, we want to, like, feel the energy day of. And I was so freaked out. But I understand now that that kind of is part of the film world that is less part of the theater world. In theater, you would very rarely send actors on stage without having talked in depth about a scene. But in film, some actors like to work that way.
[00:29:31] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:31] Speaker B: How did I feel that go? How did that go?
[00:29:34] Speaker C: Were they film actors, too? Were they, like. Is that why they were film actors.
[00:29:39] Speaker A: Who have, like, been in the industry for longer than I've been alive? So I was like, I guess they're right. Like, I guess, like, they know what they're talking about.
[00:29:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:46] Speaker A: And it was beautiful. They delivered stunning, stellar, spectacular performances, period.
And I had, you know, like, it was my first film and I had a shot list, and I was doing all the things, and I was trying so hard to be, like, a good film director. And. And then I was like, I just have to change everything because they're having these impulses and instincts, and I need to move around them.
[00:30:08] Speaker B: But I'm sure that enough, like, to be able to do that.
[00:30:13] Speaker A: I think so. I think I was really lucky because I had a DP who was up for the challenge of watching the rehearsal and then making.
[00:30:23] Speaker C: Always exciting. Always, always exciting. Yeah.
[00:30:26] Speaker A: Astounding. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure this happens to you guys all the time. You go to make a movie, and an actor just needs, like, a visceral, intrinsic way an actor needs something different than what you were planning, and you change.
Does this happen to you guys all the time?
[00:30:42] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: Why did you choose to shoot in London for your first one? If it's your first short? Why not stay in New York, make it easy, put in an apartment or even put it on a stage and, like, stay very theatrical with it?
[00:30:55] Speaker A: It sounds like it was very, very good question.
[00:30:57] Speaker B: Did you write it as well?
[00:30:59] Speaker A: No. These two amazing artists wrote it. Angel Parker and Kate Crisp. And they had written this, like, blazingly alive script that was set in California, but they just live in London. So we did it in London, and I just got really lucky that I got to go over there and make it.
[00:31:15] Speaker B: You just like.
[00:31:18] Speaker A: Yes. I met them through someone who was in the film. Like, someone. He was one of the actors.
Like, lovely, stunningly talented actor. And he, like, had a feeling that I would collaborate well with these two amazing women. And he was right. And it was a great experience. Oh, my God. But film is really hard. What the hell? No one told me.
[00:31:37] Speaker C: It's really hard for different reasons. I mean, you've grown up in theater, right? But if. And if a film director went in and directed theater, it would be totally different.
[00:31:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, totally.
[00:31:49] Speaker C: Yeah. How much are you.
One stark difference is that you get to do it a bunch of nights, right? You're doing it eight times a week. If you're on Broadway or however many nights a week, and you get to potentially make adjustments or talk to the actors after the show about how they felt and things like that, what do those conversations look like? And what are your instincts as a director in terms of making adjustments night by night? Or do you. Once it's, you know, the run starts, are you completely hands off?
[00:32:26] Speaker A: Yes. In theater, we have a preview process where it's anywhere from, like, one to three weeks where you're doing the show at night and then rehearsing during the day. So, like, that's the time to make all of those adjustments, I think.
Like, I've been thinking about this a lot recently as I've been editing that film I did in London, where in film, if an actor does a beautiful performance, it's such a gift to them to be able to say, that was perfect. We got it.
What a heavenly gift to be able to share with an actor. But in theater, that's, like, never a gift. That's like a curse.
[00:33:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:33:03] Speaker A: If they do the scene and you're like, that was perfect. We got it. It's like, that's so evil. You just amputated their hands off. Like they're so fucked now.
[00:33:11] Speaker C: And that happens at like every level. I was just, I was, I was listening to Stella Adler's book.
[00:33:18] Speaker A: I know, Good for you.
[00:33:20] Speaker C: Can we just take a moment that I was doing that? I mean, who am I?
[00:33:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Wait, why were you doing that?
[00:33:25] Speaker C: I know. Why would I ever do that? But she was talking about some very famous British actor who I potentially even has like sir in front of his name.
And he, he was acting with a very famous co star too. And he did like an out of body performance in like, let's say like King Lear or something.
And like, like on another level. And everybody knew it and the audience knew it and his co stars knew it.
And after it, he went into his dressing room, turned off all the lights and was like having like a moment by himself. And his co, his very famous co star walked in and she was like, hey, that was amazing. And he's like staring at himself in the mirror. He's like, I'm never gonna be able to do that again. And he went into like a crazy depression, apparently after the show was over and like didn't act for years because of like that night, you know, so like theater, theater can do that, you know, and you can have. So it is in a way, as you said, it's like a curse sometimes to put on an unreal performance that you're just feeling it. There's that energy in the room, you.
[00:34:31] Speaker B: Know, it's got a little black swan twist in there.
[00:34:34] Speaker C: Totally, exactly.
[00:34:35] Speaker A: But a theater, a lifetime of insecurity and neurotic.
[00:34:39] Speaker C: Absolutely, absolutely.
What are the ways that you guys mitigate that sort of thing?
What are the ways in which you're able to feel confident every night? Obviously that's an overstatement. That's nearly impossible. But are there things that you do as a director with your actors to help that or what does that look like?
[00:35:02] Speaker A: I think part of it is literally never saying, that was amazing. That was perfect. Do it like that. Because it's just so. Sometimes I'll direct a play and the first time two actors read a scene, it's like everyone's crying. We're so moved. It's the best acting ever. It's so truthful. And it's like, it will never be that again. It will never be that again. There'll always be a micro expression, a catch in the voice that is just gone. And that is what makes theater beautiful. But it's just being really careful, I feel with language, like when I see, when I watch A scene, and it goes really well. If we're, like, three weeks out from performance and I know we have to rehearse it more or I know that it will never be that again. I use words like successful, or I talk about. I try to use not very passionate language, even if I'm feeling very passionate. Or I talk about, you know, like, what was helpful, like, maybe the given circumstances of the scene or maybe the pace. Like, I try to be kind of scientific about it. To, like, continue this feeling of exploration and truth and to not suggest that you have to be struck by magical emotional lightning to do a good job and to instead be, like, acting as a muscle. The play is a muscle that we're all just working on together. So, like, how do we just continue that work, that rigorous work?
[00:36:18] Speaker C: Those. Those words like successful and amazing and impressive are audience words. You know, they're. They're what, ideally, the audience can be saying as they walk out of the theater. But you gotta be more careful with language as a director. That's. That's very interesting.
[00:36:34] Speaker A: You do? Yeah.
[00:36:35] Speaker B: Like, are your notes. When you are in rehearsal and you're kind of doing a scene with your actors, are you.
Are you almost, like, are questions notes in theater? Or, like. I guess it's probably director specific, I would assume.
But how do you go about notes to make sure that you're not falling into. To the. Okay, that was perfect. Let's move to the next one, you know?
[00:37:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:01] Speaker B: Like, how are you just, like, continuing to evolve and, like, find more about the scene and, like, the broader. Like, how does this fit into the overall image here or the piece? Like, the story?
[00:37:15] Speaker A: Yeah. My notes are psychotic and scary, and I use these, like, big yellow legal pads. And I, like, write the whole time when I'm in previews. And sometimes this is, like, a bad director habit that I have. Sometimes if I'm feeling out of control, I'm like, I gotta give all these notes. And it becomes this weird mania of, like, if I tell you everything I saw, then you'll know that I saw it and you'll see it too. Like, it becomes kind of weird.
So what I'm learning to do as I move through my career and through the industry is to look at the notes and find the big picture thing. Because there always is one. Right. It's like, maybe I've taken, like, 20 notes on how an actor is standing or, like, how I need them to cheat out or their posture. But if I really process them, then I understand. It's about the physicality of the character or about the character's status. There's like, a deeper thing that's so.
[00:38:08] Speaker C: Interesting, and it's not productive to just give up all those 20 notes, but rather finding that common thematic thing of, like, what's what, what are they?
Where are we not seeing, you know, clear, like, on. Where are we not paralleling each other on this?
Really interesting.
[00:38:24] Speaker A: And sometimes it can feel rigorous to give the 20 notes, but actually the much more, like, rigorous, productive thing is to understand what the fuck is happening and try to move in a responsible way from there. And also, acting is vulnerable and they're working so hard. So if I'm like, it's not working.
[00:38:42] Speaker C: Change everything.
[00:38:43] Speaker A: Figure out why. Yeah, exactly. Because in film, you have to give notes so quickly. Like, you have to really think on your feet. But in theater, there's much more time to process and to.
You could watch three performances without giving a note and then understand something new.
There's a little bit more time to wrap your brain around things.
[00:39:00] Speaker C: Patience is a really important thing as a director. To not be like, okay, stop, cheat out.
Maybe if you did that, it would fix that in the moment. But to let them be in their groove and finish the scene or whatever it is, and then think very carefully, what's this way that I can say that to make them still feel in their element, but also, you know, improve all these things that I saw, you.
[00:39:26] Speaker A: Know, and every actor is different. They all need different things. And a lot of actors will just, like, without knowing it, simply lie to you about the thing they need. They'll be like, I love notes. I want to hear everything.
[00:39:38] Speaker C: Well, that's the way they've been trained, right?
[00:39:40] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah. Or they'll be like. Like, yeah, some actors, I mean, everyone has this. I'm sure I have this. But I feel it the most with actors where they're like, this is how I like to work. This is my special thing. And then I'm watching them and I'm like, that's not how you work. That's not.
[00:39:54] Speaker C: And that's not your special thing.
[00:39:56] Speaker A: It's not your thing. And it doesn't mean they're bad or wrong. It's just like, that is their, like, understanding of what they're doing. And I have to find a different way in. It's really, like, wonderful and fun and analytical. Like, how lucky that I get to do that.
[00:40:11] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:11] Speaker B: How, Parker, do you employ, like, theater games or, like, those warm ups at all? I don't mean. Maybe games is the wrong word, but.
[00:40:21] Speaker A: Like, no games Is the right word, unfortunately.
[00:40:24] Speaker B: So just for kind of like warming your cast up and like maybe getting them talking and listening and that kind of thing. Like, are you doing that? And if you are, what are you doing?
[00:40:36] Speaker A: No, I'm doing it. I mean, sometimes I go through phases because sometimes I'm like, oh God, I'm so embarrassed. Like, it's too earnest. It's too to. It's stupid. I'm not going to do it. But actually, everyone does want to play the games they want to. That's why they're theater actors in New York City. Like, they totally want to do it.
I play it depends on the company sometimes. Well, what I always do is I call it a stretchy check in. Like for the warmup, everyone is in a circle and you lead a stretch of your choosing that you need that day and you do a check in. And that can either be like, I'm like, how was your day? Or I'm like, what kind of cookie are you? Like, I'm trying to get people talking and I'm trying to make it feel like we're just here to understand each other. And the play.
And then, yeah, I play all the games. Like, I do like a past the clap thing where you're like, you know, like clapping and then sending it to someone else in the circle. Like, it's basically zip, zap, zap. But you're not saying those words.
[00:41:30] Speaker B: You're in the circle with the cast.
[00:41:32] Speaker A: I'm in the circle.
I want to play too. Yeah, it's fun. And you're like diagnosing, right? You're like, okay, this cast maybe has like an energy thing where the energy drops in the scene. So then I'm trying to find a.
[00:41:46] Speaker C: Game that will bring the strategic. That's so interesting.
[00:41:51] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I just did a show where it was about all these women gossiping with each other. So we played this game called Tea of the Day where I had them each like tell a piece of gossip that was like, not related to themselves or anyone in the room. Just like, good old fashioned, you know, like, my college roommate just got married and blah, blah, blah.
[00:42:10] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:10] Speaker A: And everyone has to like, react as big as they can. Like the, the most extreme level of reaction you could possibly have to like every part of the story. And like, that is so stupid, but so fun. And then they go on stage and they're actually listening to each other because we did Tea of the Day.
[00:42:25] Speaker C: Wow, that's. That's really cool. It's, it's.
It just really is like, you have so much time in theater to do stuff like that.
[00:42:33] Speaker B: This.
[00:42:34] Speaker C: But it's amazing because you get to.
Right. If people are not. As if there's two scene partners who are not connecting with each other, what's a game that you would do that allows you to be fully connected with a person and really present? Maybe it's a game where you are making eye contact with someone or you're emulating their bodies physically or it's. That's so interesting. I've. For some reason, I have never thought of theater games as, like, that, you know, specific and that, you know, it's like diagnosing, as you said.
[00:43:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Are you guys not playing games on your film sets? Come on, Luke.
[00:43:17] Speaker B: No, I. I took. I took this direction class at USC where we were taught a few of those games, and it's amazing. Like, I definitely like one in particular. I don't. I don't know the name of it, but it's simply putting two chairs facing each other, and you have your two actors sit there, and they just talk and listen, and there's. You don't perform. It's the opposite of performance. It's just getting through the lines and, like, hearing one another and just not thinking about anything that has to do with performing.
And it's. It's. I found a lot of success with that.
[00:43:56] Speaker A: Whoa. Do your actors mind when you have them do that type of thing? Do they go along for the ride?
[00:44:02] Speaker B: I think they really like it. And I think, like, we've been talking about, too, with film, where it is always the time. You can just hear the clock ticking, you know?
[00:44:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:12] Speaker B: And the sun is going down. I think being able to do something quick that makes them present, that's not, like, freaking them out of, like, we need to get this right now, because look at this sun, guys. Like, it's about to go down. Instead, it's like, hey, let's sit you both down. Have you guys kind of connect with one another and, like, almost put them on the same team. Almost like, removing myself from the equation, like, letting them, like, play with each other. And when the camera's on, they're not even. It's like, we're just here with each other. Like, yeah, Luke's over there. But, like, we're. We're with. Like, we're on the same team. Like the scene partner thing.
[00:44:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
Wow. Kind of beautiful. And it's also. It's just nice to.
Exactly what you're saying. Take the pressure off and remind ourselves exactly what we were talking about at the beginning of this conversation that it's kind of a magical, weird thing that we get to do. Create human interactions on screen and on stage. So it's like a good, it's a good way to remember that it's just about talking to each other and energetic exchange.
[00:45:12] Speaker C: Totally. Well, so I'm curious because this is. This is the 5050 podcast where we talk about creative and business. I'm curious just how you, as you know someone who was told by, by a theater teacher a long time ago that maybe you should try directing, how have you actually like maintained that as a job, especially after, you know, I assume, graduating college? And how did you get into that and then how have you sort of sustained that? Because oftentimes, specifically film theater is so, you know, the budgets are scrappy and you're in, you know, you're in very small spaces and you know, people aren't making money a lot of the time. You're doing a lot of free work. So how does that actually look as like a. To. To be self sufficient in that world?
[00:45:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
So I went to Barnard, which is in the city. So I had this really good advantage when I graduated where I just remember one of my college professors texted me. It was like three weeks after I graduated, and she said, hey, do you want to direct a concert at the Public Theater? I was like, yeah, I do want to do that.
That'd be fucking awesome. So I had the advantage of knowing a lot of working professionals who needed help with things.
And like, that concert was like five songs in a very big marathon. It wasn't anything fancy, but it was a really good thing to start with because it made me feel like, yeah, this is an industry that I can move through carefully and in my own way, you know, So I feel like my time is kind of split in a few different ways. Like, obviously my dream situation is I'm directing a play or a musical in a rehearsal room, getting paid to do that. But then there's like a few other things that happen. Like, I do a lot of associate directing, which is in theater, a very intense collaboration with the director, where you're at every rehearsal and you're making the play with them, but you're just kind of their satellite. And sometimes it means you're just taking notes for them, but sometimes it means a much deeper collaboration where you're really helping them craft moments. So, like, right now I'm associate directing this Ibsen play. And like, it is again, like, it's not my, my baby, it this. I didn't design any elements of it.
[00:47:30] Speaker B: But it's like a stepchild.
[00:47:32] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Like a stepchild. Well put.
[00:47:34] Speaker C: That's what they say.
[00:47:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but. And like a stepchild. I still care about it so much. Like, I want it to be the best play ever, but it's also kind of like almost like a gig. Like, it's not my.
[00:47:47] Speaker C: But you're never gonna be there.
[00:47:48] Speaker A: This metaphor is not working. Yeah, exactly.
Wait, let's put that. Let's. Yeah, actually, I regret that.
[00:47:54] Speaker C: No, no, let's keep going with it. Let's. Really?
[00:47:56] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm like. And the thing about love. No, I feel.
I feel like. But yeah, so that's like one of my streams of income basically, is associate directing. And then there's other, like, weird little, like, I'll pick up, like, I. I'm an assistant to a director. Like a full time assistant to a director. And that's like another really great side gig where it's not the most, like, artistic glamorous job, but I'm like, I'm in charge of this director who I love and admires. Calendar, gorgeous. Like, I am so happy for that to be one of the side gigs.
Easy.
So it's kind of like patching it together and like taking the weird jobs when you need to take them. And, you know, like, some directors will, like, there is actually a very lucrative associate director track where you can work on, like a big musical for a long time. And like, that's a really great way.
[00:48:46] Speaker C: To have a long running Broadway thing.
[00:48:48] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. But because that's not where I, like, where I'm putting my energy right now, it does come more in the form of, like these six week stints of associate directing plays. Off Broadway or regionally.
Yeah. And when I first graduated, I worked at FAO Schwartz. Okay. I worked at the toy store, FAO Schwartz. It was great.
[00:49:08] Speaker C: Love that.
[00:49:09] Speaker A: It was actually really not great. It was really complicated. But it was like my cool side gig when I graduated from Barnard and my mom was like, I'm so glad we got you this Ivy League degree so you could work at FAO Sports. And I was like, just give me one second, mom.
[00:49:20] Speaker C: One second, Mom.
[00:49:22] Speaker A: I was like, hold on.
She was very supportive, but she was kind of like, okay, it's interesting.
But yeah, you just kind of patch it together. I feel totally.
[00:49:32] Speaker B: What is. What is the dream?
[00:49:36] Speaker C: Oh, is there a dream play? Is there a dream position?
[00:49:40] Speaker B: I think, I think just broad.
[00:49:43] Speaker A: What is the dream?
I'm, like, nervous to speak it on a platform that is public.
[00:49:49] Speaker C: What I'LL say is that people have spoken their dreams before on this podcast, and they have come true.
So.
[00:49:58] Speaker A: Are you lying?
[00:49:58] Speaker C: No, no, no.
Why would I. Can you imagine if I lied about that?
[00:50:06] Speaker A: Totally. Sorry. Wow. That was really distrustful.
My dream is to direct a big Broadway musical that is meaningful to people who don't live in New York City.
Like, my dream is to direct a musical that reaches kids in different parts of the world, and they can listen to it and, like, understand something new about themselves or about the world. Because we made this piece of art, you know.
[00:50:36] Speaker C: Amazing. Yeah. What? What?
[00:50:40] Speaker A: It doesn't have to be kids, I guess. Like, I don't. It doesn't need to be, like, theater for young audiences, but I guess I just think about growing up and, like, listening to into the Wood and being like, wow. Something about this, like, nasty, weird, beautiful, intense musical is making me feel alive, and I'm five years old. Like, I think that is so special. And then getting to see it and to understand imagination and transformation, I think is, like, what theater's for. I think theater's to make us feel magical.
[00:51:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
Are you.
What is your relationship with, like, the new theater scene in New York and, like, developing playwrights and working with, you know, new playwrights on the scene and new actors on the scene and everything? Like, are you.
Do you feel like you have your finger on the pulse of that? And what does that scene look. Look like?
[00:51:30] Speaker A: I feel. I was just talking about this today with my agent. We were on the phone, like, talking about where. What's happening in my career right now.
I feel like that scene is really big in New York. I feel like it's very different from, you know, like, in the 70s, downtown La Mama Maboo Mines. Like, that was, I think, a smaller community of, like, artists who wanted to make experimental, weird plays. And the reason I'm referencing it is because sometimes I'm. Like, ours feels very widespread. Right. Like, there. There's a lot of new play communities. There's a lot of small theater companies. I'm sure you guys have friends who have small theater companies in New York, right?
[00:52:10] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:52:11] Speaker A: Why?
[00:52:12] Speaker C: Luke has tons of friends.
Luke, Just nod.
[00:52:14] Speaker B: Shaking my head over here.
[00:52:16] Speaker A: I know all those people.
So I feel like I am in that world, but I don't feel like I'm, like, the leader. I don't feel like I'm in a leadership position in that world, but I feel like I'm connected to it. And, like, the playwrights who I do work with, who I work on new plays with, I love them. And I think they're geniuses and would go to battle for them. So, like, those are people who I'm excited to continue having collaborations with. But I feel like. I feel like if you stopped someone on the street who, like, happened to know me for some reason, and you were like, what kind of work does Brit Burke make? I don't think they would say new plays, although that is something I do. But I don't feel like I'm, like, a leading voice in that community right at this moment.
[00:52:55] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, I think it's so interesting, and the more you talk about it, the more I realize that it is kind of its own community, you know? And you obviously have an interest in reviving texts that were written in not even this century. And that's a whole art form on its own. So I think it's about that balance and everything. Do people seek out the new plays seen in New York to try and find their.
Whatever, straight shot to success, or what does that look like?
What's the goal there?
[00:53:31] Speaker A: I mean, I think everyone wants the straight shot to success, right? Like, even. Even when I'm directing my, like, you know, like, 1880s British, like, Lancashire play, I'm like, maybe this is gonna be the one.
[00:53:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:53:44] Speaker A: Like, everyone is like, what's this gonna be? And I do. For everyone listening, I would love to direct some more new plays. Like, I think that's, like, a wonderful world.
[00:53:52] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:53:53] Speaker A: I feel like the thing that you get told a lot, because I've done a lot of fellowships at theaters in New York, which is a wonderful thing, and, like, a great way to meet other directors and feel less lonely. In this part of the industry, something you get told a lot is, like, find your playwright who's, like, your playwright, and they will get programmed somewhere and they will hire you and bring you on. And I think that's, like, a really valid way to do it and a way that a lot of people do move through this part of our careers, where it's kind of like early career, but starting to find some footing and some reputation.
So. Yeah. And I also think the new play world is, like, kind of gorgeous because it's, like, leaving room for new voices and for. I just think it's, like, that's all, like, so important and valuable and, like. Yes. I just think it's hard to get a handle on it because there's so many institutions that are new play institutions. So it's almost like you almost want to decide what type of new play you want to make. Like, is it a weird Edgy one. Is it a, like, hyper realistic one? Like, you almost need to funnel through that to, like, find your people, which I see myself and the people around me doing.
[00:55:05] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:55:06] Speaker B: Is anyone talking about a 24 is Cherry Lane? Is that.
[00:55:10] Speaker A: We're talking? Yeah, we're talking. We're talking.
[00:55:13] Speaker C: Wait, what. What is that? So I've seen stuff at Cherry Lane, does a 24.
[00:55:18] Speaker B: Basically. Yeah. They. They.
They own it and they're gonna start doing stuff there.
[00:55:26] Speaker C: Yeah, let's. Our theater consultant, Britt Burke, is with us to discuss A24's recent acquisition of the Cherry Lane Theater.
[00:55:34] Speaker A: Here's what I'll say. I don't know that much about it in, like, an intense way, but everyone is talking about it because theater people want to make money. No, theater people want to, like, be in the film world and, like, be.
I feel like I'm like a 24. I'm like.
[00:55:53] Speaker C: They're like, licking at their chops.
[00:55:54] Speaker A: They care about us.
[00:55:55] Speaker C: Yeah. Yes.
[00:55:56] Speaker A: I mean, I think there's just, like, a lot of excitement that a Very cool, very, like, what's. What's the word I'm looking for? Like, a company that has money and.
[00:56:08] Speaker C: Street cred and wants to take part in, like, original storytelling.
[00:56:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, they care about theater. That's so amazing. And they don't care about theater in a way where they're like, thank you. We're gonna buy your play and make it into a movie and hire a movie director to do it. Like, now.
[00:56:23] Speaker C: Now, here's the thing.
I wouldn't say that they don't. Listen, we're in LA right now and we know that there's always.
Because I believe if they have a playwright in residence, perhaps that they have first look on adapting or whatever it is, you know, I'm sure there's some sort of business going on.
[00:56:43] Speaker B: You also think about, like, a Celine song. Right. Or like, these directors love to think about a theater. Right. And, like, I mean, I'm sure it's not.
Not on their minds of like, yes, we love theater and we also love.
[00:56:57] Speaker C: It's artist incubation, you know, It's a thing that's been happening for a long time.
[00:57:00] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:57:01] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:57:01] Speaker A: I feel like the main thing that is happening now is that people are like, oh, my God, you have to get in touch with a 24 at Terry Lane. Like, anything that you. Whenever you present an idea to someone that's even remotely cool, they're like, wait, but have you heard about a 24 at Terry Lane? It's like, totally, like, I know about them, but I think it's going to be exciting, and I'm excited for us all to see what happens. I think it's, like, really beautiful. They've invested time and money into that collaboration.
[00:57:26] Speaker C: Do you think, like, Neon should have, like, a theater across the street or something?
[00:57:31] Speaker A: Like, probably Audible has a theater also down in the Westville. So it's like. It's kind of happening. I don't know. Because la.
Are people talking about theater there? Like, are people hungry for more theater to be happening? Are they hungry for more theater, film collaboration?
[00:57:50] Speaker C: Because I don't know. I feel like ever since I moved back here, Luke and I both grew up here, and high school is its own thing. There's always gonna be theater in high school.
Knock on wood, right?
But then I lived in New York and obviously exposed to so much more theater, and there's a theater on every block in the East Village and all that. And then I come back and I'm obviously hungry as a person who just.
It's my routine now to go see a show every month, right?
So I'm like, a member of the Pasadena Playhouse who does amazing original work, and they've won a regional Tony recently, and they're like, the.
What do you call it? Like, the artistic director over there is fantastic and really good selection.
Like, there's, like, the Center Theater Group over here who does, like, the Ahmanson Other. And then the Geffen is like, the Geffen.
[00:58:47] Speaker A: It's like, what?
[00:58:48] Speaker C: It's. It's.
[00:58:49] Speaker A: Whoa, whoa. What do you mean?
[00:58:50] Speaker C: Well, I have. God, I don't.
There's a. I like. I think LA is a very interesting city because of the demographics on where people live, Right. Because it's a little more segmented than New York because of the freeways and because the city is just so much larger spatially. So I think oftentimes when you put a theater in an area where there's a lot of just, like, wealthy people who have a very specific point of view, you're kind of creating, like, a silo in a way, or a whirlpool or. I don't even know what the right metaphor is. But then you go downtown and there's theaters that all demographics. There's shows that all demographics are seeing. Or you go to Pasadena, where there's Altadena and other places nearby that people can go and access theater. Theater in LA has become a lot about access and who's. And who's able to see it and things like that. And it's just harder to get to shows. So, like, I'm still developing my thoughts around theater in la just because of the structure of the city and it's so different and you can't just take the train to places and see it.
[00:59:56] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah.
[00:59:58] Speaker C: But I. I think that, like, if more people are exposed to theater here, then of course they'll want to go and experience that. So that's. I don't know.
[01:00:06] Speaker B: I. I think what Wyatt's trying to.
[01:00:08] Speaker A: Luke is. Luke is laughing at you. Luke's laughing in your face.
[01:00:11] Speaker C: Not yet.
[01:00:13] Speaker A: Luke is like, lol.
[01:00:14] Speaker C: I don't want to be on the record ever saying that theater is bad because I think that that rhetoric is like, you know, harmful to some extent.
[01:00:20] Speaker B: You know, it's definitely. No, I mean, like an A24. Brett, you're spot on the nose there. Like, A24 is.
[01:00:26] Speaker C: Is.
[01:00:26] Speaker B: I mean, I am the biggest fan. I love a 24. And I actually become friendly with a good amount of folks who work there. One of them being the dude who's opening, is responsible for Cherry Lane. He, like, opened it up and it's been under wraps with that for a minute and is now finally public. And it's amazing to see what kind of like the talk on the street is working.
And so it's like, I am the biggest fan and like, them doing that is really big. Like, I think that will absolutely lead to. You've seen how they've changed the industry already. Like, I mean, why. You can speak to that too, of what they've done. But like, I think there's. Theater is bit like theater is a thing. Like, I think theater is like really.
[01:01:11] Speaker C: Happening, which is so funny because it was happening so much before film, you know.
[01:01:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:01:16] Speaker C: But it's like. But it's. It's important to talk about, like, the current state of theater, I think.
And what your question was spot on, Brit, of like, are people hungry for it? You know, because theater is nothing without an audience. Right. So, like, you have to go where people are hungry for it or invest and create an appetite, you know, so it's an interesting conversation. Maybe when we're still hosting this podcast in 10 years, we'll be having a different conversation about theater in la. Hopefully we are, you know, maybe we'll.
[01:01:47] Speaker A: Be like, wow, theater really took off after a 24 bought the cherry.
That was a pivotal moment.
[01:01:52] Speaker C: It's manifestation hours.
[01:01:55] Speaker B: I mean, yeah, theater wasn't. Theater wasn't real until a 24.
[01:02:02] Speaker A: Yeah, they really legitimized the form of theater in general.
[01:02:06] Speaker B: It wasn't really, I mean, look like it wasn't really.
[01:02:09] Speaker C: It wasn't super popular until a 24 really bought that theater.
[01:02:13] Speaker A: I will say the thing with theater right now, and maybe it's like this in film too, but it's like, I'm part of this lab. It's a WP theater, and it's like a very esteemed lab, storied grouping of artists who come together to like, be the future of theater. I know. Bragging, bragging on the podcast. And we had an artistic director come in the other day and she was just like, yeah, guys, theater is really expensive. She's like, it costs four times as much as it used to cost to make a play now compared to before the pandemic. And that's like materials and resources and like, it's just really expensive and we don't really know how to do it anymore. And no one can really afford to do it.
And that's like a big feeling. It's a big feeling. And like, I am positive film is having a similar problem, but I feel like because theater is. The less it's.
[01:03:02] Speaker C: It's not exposed.
[01:03:04] Speaker A: Accessible. Right, Exactly.
[01:03:06] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:03:07] Speaker A: So under loved. But a 24 is going to fix it, thank God.
[01:03:10] Speaker C: I mean, it's tough because, like, realistically in the film industry, nobody knows what to do either. Like, with things are costing so much more and there's like, other threats. Like, like, I don't think AI is as much of a threat to theater. It's actually kind of immune, which is amazing, you know, like, but. But film has. Has its own threats. And obviously art will stand the test of time. It always has, despite whatever.
But it's good to know and important to say out loud that it's harder to make theater now.
Did she say specifically, is it just the materials or the cost of a space is so much more obviously. So what is it exactly?
[01:03:58] Speaker A: I think it is kind of everything. But, like, at its core, it kind of is the materials, but then it's also labor. And, you know, like, theater used to have a lot of not very, like, health and safety practices.
[01:04:11] Speaker C: Totally.
[01:04:11] Speaker A: Like, something that used to happen very, very commonly in theater would be like. And this still happens sometimes. This is not evil. And I would totally engage with it if given, like, the budget to do it. But what used to happen a lot is you would, like, do your tech, and at the end of the day you'd be like, okay, that.
That, like, part of the set needs to be green. Like, it's orange right now and it needs to be green. And someone would like come in at midnight and like do an overnight shift and like work until 8am and like paint your shit green. And like that was just kind of part of the ecosystem of it. Like everyone here should be overworked and underpaid. And we're going to do it because we love it. And I think now, like in an effort for people to not be in that situation, money is trying to be allocated to different resources and sometimes that works really well. And like, like a great thing that has happened in theater recently is that we used to have tech days that were, they're called 10 out of 12. Do you guys know about this?
[01:05:03] Speaker C: No.
[01:05:05] Speaker A: It was like it was a day where you would work for 10 of the 12 hours in the day and like have a two hour break in there. And like that is how you would tech your show. And like they've kind of got like, put that away. And now we do like an eight out of nine and a half.
You're sacrificing things. So I think like at its core theater is expensive because like materials are expensive. But also as priorities shift and we take care of people better, things are just. Yeah, we're in chaos right now.
[01:05:32] Speaker C: Totally.
[01:05:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:05:34] Speaker C: Well, yeah, it's been such a pleasure if there's, you know, we're gonna post this episode to soon, you know, within the month of September, definitely. So if there's any like, anything you want to plug, any shows you're working on or would recommend people see if they're in the city. I'm going to be in the city at the end of this week. So what should I see on Friday night? Like what, what do I do? What do I do?
[01:05:59] Speaker A: Well, come see the show. I'm associate directing right now. The Wild Duck by Henrik Ibsen, adapted by David Eldridge. That theater for a new audience.
It's a great production.
I can't plug anything else right at this moment, but there will be more soon to plug, but not right this second.
[01:06:16] Speaker C: Amazing.
[01:06:17] Speaker A: But yeah. Everyone come see the Wild Duck by Ibsen. What the hell?
[01:06:20] Speaker C: Perfect. Perfect.
[01:06:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:06:22] Speaker C: Amazing. Well, it's been such a holistic episode. I feel like we've covered so much in terms of the status of theater.
What sort of themes you're interested in, the collaboration process, the way you like to work with people, the sacred text, all this stuff. And I think it's important for film people to know that theater is real and it's where everything came from. And theater is a huge business in New York and there are shows that gross millions of dollars every week, and they've been running a lot longer than any movie.
So it's a really, really exciting thing that's going on in New York and other places. And, you know, everybody. Everybody is welcome in theater.
[01:07:07] Speaker A: Wow. Spoken like a true NYU grad who believes in the power.
[01:07:12] Speaker C: There we go. Well, that's spoken like a true. Like a true uptown Barnard student right there.
[01:07:19] Speaker A: Thank you. I'm just seeing my iPad following my face now. I'm looking at the image, and it's really fucked up.
[01:07:26] Speaker B: It's crazy. There's been this slow zoom happening, too. Almost like a dolly.
[01:07:31] Speaker C: It's very.
[01:07:31] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:07:32] Speaker C: Can we just pan in?
[01:07:33] Speaker A: Do you guys feel, like, seasick, like, or.
[01:07:36] Speaker B: No?
[01:07:36] Speaker C: I always feel a little bit. I always feel a little bit seasick.
[01:07:41] Speaker A: Just kind of generally.
[01:07:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:07:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, thanks for. Thanks for the conversation. It was so nice to meet you both.
[01:07:46] Speaker C: Of course. You too. And shout out Ruby Karp for putting us all together.
[01:07:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:07:50] Speaker C: Appreciate it.
[01:07:51] Speaker A: Shout out to genius, this beautiful star, Ruby Carp.
[01:07:54] Speaker C: Absolutely. All right, well, thank you so much, Brit.
[01:07:57] Speaker B: Nice meeting you.
[01:07:57] Speaker C: Appreciate it.
[01:07:58] Speaker A: Thanks, guys. Thank you. Thank you.
[01:08:06] Speaker B: Did you learn something? Unlike your mom. Did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging. Make sure you follow us at the 5050 Fest on Instagram and give us five stars, because. Why not? Why not subscribe? Why not?
Why not? Okay, bye.
