HOW TO: Learn Your Process & Own It! (w/ Wylie Anderson)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: I think the main thing was my confidence in myself was pretty low. And that has just been the case growing up. And I grew up in LA and around all of these people, I always felt like, knew what they were doing way more than I knew what I was doing, period, just in life. And I had these visions, visions of, like, I want to be a filmmaker. That world builds and creates, like a whole universe. Even, like, with my films, like, I. I wanted. I have such, like, large ambition and. But I really wasn't giving myself permission to, like, really have that. [00:00:48] Speaker B: I'm Luke Steinfeld. [00:00:49] Speaker C: And I'm Wyatt Sarkisian. [00:00:51] Speaker B: We made the 5050 podcast to support you on your filmmaking journey. [00:00:54] Speaker C: 50% business, 50%, 50% creative. [00:00:57] Speaker B: Every Tuesday, a new how to. [00:00:59] Speaker C: And this week we talk with the wonderful filmmaker Wiley Anderson, who emphasizes just how important it is to nail down your process as an emerging talent. But wait, there's more. It must be mentioned that the 5050 Horror Festival is this Sunday, October 19th. Ticket Links in Bio Byee. [00:01:31] Speaker A: Wait, I look. So I just learned how to do makeup and. [00:01:35] Speaker C: Wow. No, come on. [00:01:39] Speaker A: I gotta fix the light a little bit. Hold on. [00:01:42] Speaker C: Look at. Look at us. We're. Yeah, look at. Every morning we intentionally mess up our looks for the podcast. [00:01:50] Speaker A: Thank you for saying, I guess I'd be a boy mom, because I do have that same feeling as well. I'm like, oh, it's only a matter of time. [00:01:58] Speaker C: The hat. [00:01:58] Speaker A: A little sister. [00:01:59] Speaker B: The hat. [00:02:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it's the hat. [00:02:01] Speaker C: It's the hat. The Dodgers hat. You know, I'm going to pick up. [00:02:05] Speaker A: My boy kids from soccer. [00:02:07] Speaker C: I just throw. I just threw on one of their baseball hats. I couldn't find mine. That's like, what you're saying I just threw on Tommy's hat. [00:02:13] Speaker A: I know. It does kind of seem like I'm like, come on, kids, let's get in the car. Let's get totally. [00:02:19] Speaker B: Totally what it says. Wiley's fort above you. Lemonade. [00:02:26] Speaker A: Yes. [00:02:27] Speaker B: It's pretty cool. This makes sense, though. I feel like in your work, just going right into it. I feel like in your work. [00:02:35] Speaker A: Are we starting? [00:02:37] Speaker B: Not necessarily just more of a comment, but I feel like in your work, I. Like, there's a through line of such intention with set design. And like, I, I obviously, I watch a lot of short films at this point, and a lot of them in our age group seem to be lacking on that side of things, so they just kind of lean into, like, it's my apartment, so I'll just use that. But, like, you are a very unique case where it's like, let's lean into set design and, like, the art on the walls and everything like that. So it makes sense that your own room kind of matches that as well. [00:03:12] Speaker A: Yes. Luke, Luke, Luke. Thank you so much for saying that specific thing. Yeah, thank you. That means a lot. I just like. I love. I love little details. That's sort of my favorite. One of my favorite parts about filmmaking is. Is, like, putting in the details. Like putting in things on the wall and. Yeah, sure, everything matches. Like color schemes. I'll get into that. But like, the metaphors, it doesn't stop. Every single frame on the screen can be dissected, and everything is there for a reason. I'm like, so I love it. I love doing that. [00:03:54] Speaker C: It's a very specific type of filmmaker who does that and has that awareness. We talked with a guy yesterday who's had a long, successful career, and he started as a photographer doing, like, commercial work with celebrity. And I'm curious. Did. Do you take photos? Are you, like, a visually motivated person? [00:04:14] Speaker A: So I actually. I mean, I take photos on my iPhone. That's about it. I'm. I'm not a photographer first. I'm. I come from a theater background, so like, that's my whole. [00:04:28] Speaker B: There we go. [00:04:28] Speaker C: Me too. [00:04:30] Speaker A: Yeah, you too. [00:04:31] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:04:32] Speaker A: Okay. Love now, Luke. Hey, what about you? [00:04:36] Speaker B: No, but. But Wyatt. Wyatt loves theater. [00:04:39] Speaker C: I do too. I could steer the conversation in quite the direction right now if I wanted to. [00:04:44] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:04:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:46] Speaker B: Wiley. [00:04:46] Speaker C: I don't know if you remember, but we met at 50 50, the last festival. I think Luke introduced us as both living in Silver Lake. [00:04:55] Speaker B: Maybe. [00:04:56] Speaker A: Do you live in Silva? I live in Los Feliz. [00:04:59] Speaker C: Okay, got it. Well, Luke. Luke doesn't understand the difference there. [00:05:03] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:05:04] Speaker B: So, yeah, it's. It's all the same. [00:05:08] Speaker A: It kind of is. [00:05:10] Speaker C: East side. Did you. Did you grow up in la? [00:05:14] Speaker A: Yes. Okay, so I grew up in. Well, I was born in Vancouver, funny enough. [00:05:20] Speaker C: Nice. I was just there two days ago. [00:05:22] Speaker A: Oh. Oh, my first time. [00:05:24] Speaker C: Oh, my God. It's unbelievable. Unbelievable. [00:05:27] Speaker A: It's kind of fun these days. [00:05:30] Speaker B: And I've never been. Wiley and Wyatt was showing me photos and it was. I was, like, blown away. [00:05:38] Speaker A: It's awesome up there. It's awesome. But I didn't spend much time there. I just was simply born there. Born, I think lived there for like 2ish years, then moved to LA, the Valley, and have lived there ever since, except for when I went to college for four years and then came back and now I'm back in la. [00:05:58] Speaker B: So where'd you go to school again? [00:06:01] Speaker A: I went to Emerson. [00:06:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:03] Speaker C: Nice. [00:06:04] Speaker B: Did you do the. Their LA program ever? Are you stuck? [00:06:08] Speaker A: So my little fun thing is that I was supposed to, and then It's. It was 2020. [00:06:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:15] Speaker A: So just. It's kind of a more complicated story than that. But that's like. [00:06:20] Speaker C: Basically everybody has their own complicated story there. Yeah, I resonate with that. I mean, it's. Did you come back to LA anyway, though, because of COVID Yeah. [00:06:30] Speaker A: So I'll be. I guess I'll sort of get into the specifics of that. I was in Boston my second to last semester. I was like. It was like a week or two. A week and a half. Two weeks before maybe the semester was supposed to be done. And I gotten into the Emerson LA program. And basically what happened was like, they called me into the office. Yeah. Like a week and a half before the semester was up and was like, hey, actually you have too many credits, so you have to graduate now. And I was like, whoa. So I didn't get to it kind of threw me off, obviously. And I didn't have a place to live, etc, like, because I was gonna dorm at ela. And then what happened was I get. I go, okay, I guess I'm gonna go home to la. And so then I go there and I'm like, oh, I can still hang out, maybe like at ela. I was gonna be in LA anyway. [00:07:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:26] Speaker A: And it was. That's January, February, and then March, and then I was. I was home when that sort of thing happened. [00:07:36] Speaker C: When the hoax happened. [00:07:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, not huge hoax. And, yeah, I was home. Yeah. [00:07:45] Speaker C: Got it. I. I love the Emerson LA campus. I. I have a few connections to that place. My girlfriend's mom actually designed the building, which is crazy. [00:07:56] Speaker A: That's actually huge. That's some huge lore. [00:08:00] Speaker C: Huge lore. Because the building is very standout, you know. [00:08:05] Speaker A: Absolutely. The building is sort of like. It is like a museum. [00:08:10] Speaker C: Yeah. Spaceship museum type thing. Yeah, totally. [00:08:15] Speaker A: Girlfriend's mom. [00:08:16] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Very, very successful architect. [00:08:18] Speaker A: Windows open and close, depending on the sun or something. [00:08:23] Speaker C: It's all very methodical and thought out and above my pay grade, but it's very impressive. And also we shot some of my web series at Emerson la. Because our editor went there, so we got a little, like, alumni discount situation. So we shot Emerson for nyu. Basically, we. We pretended like it was nyu. [00:08:41] Speaker A: So it goes. [00:08:43] Speaker B: So did you get the chance to make shorts and projects at Emerson? [00:08:48] Speaker A: So. No, I have a very, like, I majored at Emerson in theater education and performance actually. And I was in some shorts there, but. And I did take my junior year. I got to take like, I got to shadow a grad film class because I like begged and I was able to like figure that out and that I'm so happy I was able to just get one slice of their like film program there. But I was fully in the theater program which I, you know, I, I had a great time with. Like, I learned a lot. I think the, the thing I, I learned the most though, doing my extracurricular activities there, like getting on sets. And I was a part of a sketch troupe for four years that like, I learned the most there. And then I also had my like. So my major was theater and then also education. Pretty much awesome. So I, I learned a lot about directing through my like teaching major, which was really great. And I think like a, you know, a more unique way of, of like approaching the work is yeah, educators standpoint, totally traditional film program. I don't know, I heard sometimes like a lot of people who majored in film are like, they get the proper education but then also like there's some kind of, here's the way you do things and this is the only way you do it. Whereas like I do sometimes I'm like, oh, you know, fuck, why did I not major in film? Like, I'm now kind of trying to figure out some stuff I wish I had known. Like, mostly technical stuff, but like storytelling and all that stuff. Like, I'm like, yeah, I'm happy I have my theater background. [00:10:46] Speaker C: Totally. [00:10:47] Speaker A: That's like, I took playwriting and like directing actors and like understanding actors I'm like really good at and I'm, I can understand what done in that way. And I made movies when I was a kid and in high school and in middle and elementary school and all throughout college, but just on my own, in on my own time. And like I came process in a way that feels really now organic to my instrument rather than like something I feel like I had to put on for a grade, which is like, I think a blessing now that I look back and I'm talking about it. [00:11:23] Speaker C: So absolutely. There's like something to film school of kind of like beating it into the ground and you know, getting only learning one way. Whereas if you do it from an educational standpoint, ideally you're a little more open minded with it and like, if you learn how to teach it, you have to learn it the best, you know, like you and you have to be able to teach it to another person. What was that decision to do theater education? Because that's a very specific thing that I want to get into. [00:11:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Honestly, I was two years into my just theater and performance degree, and I, like, had a crisis and was like, what am I going to do with this? And so I was like, emerson has a great. Their majors are so interesting. Like, you can create your own major sometimes there's. But this one was already an established major, but I really wanted to also learn how to be a teacher, a theater teacher, and teach in classrooms and stuff. I'm like, okay, if I can't be a director, an actor or performer in any way, I want to teach kids. I want to be around kids. I'm very passionate about education, just general and department developmental psychology and, like, in my work too. I'm like. My whole sort of thing, I guess, is like, I'm passionate about, like, my little log line. I always say when I'm, like, pitching myself to, like, I don't know, agents and shit, is like, I'm passionate about stories of women, children, and digital anxieties and, like, how that all overlaps. Yeah. So, like, it. It was. I made the decision honestly based on a crisis. Slash. I do really care about that. [00:13:14] Speaker C: Yeah. I was thinking about that the other day in terms of how important the performing arts is for young people, like, kids specifically, and it's obviously feeling like it's in jeopardy these days a little bit. And just how much of unsung heroes these performing arts teachers are. Because whether you're in one class, you never do it again, or you're a theater kid in high school, like, it is so valuable and such, like, an important social thing to be able to explore parts of yourself you would never be able to, you know. [00:13:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes, I totally agree. I'm so passionate about that of, like, performing arts in schools, but then also just like, education in general, like, public education. Like, I am very, very passionate about, like, just protecting children right now and all that. All that. [00:14:13] Speaker B: What. What did that program look like? Or classes? Like. I. I guess more on the psychology side of things, because that's. I love that stuff. I'm just not very knowledgeable about it. [00:14:23] Speaker A: Okay. It was the major was. It was theater classes for the first two years and acting classes, like, specifically, like. [00:14:33] Speaker B: Wait, so you were. You were being taught to be able to teach theater? [00:14:37] Speaker A: Yes. [00:14:38] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. [00:14:40] Speaker A: And also it was called theater education and performance. It wasn't theater, comma, education, comma, and performance, which is. Yeah, confusing. But so first two year, first Year was this, you know, we're rolling on the floor. It's that shit. We're rolling on the floor, looking at our tongue in the mirror, like, getting in touch with our views. Even though I'm 18 and bloated as fuck and am just away and like, nothing really went in my brain. The first year that was just kind of like I'm in a city and I'm like getting drunk for the first time sort of all the time and whatever. But that was. First year is just basics and like gen eds. And then second year is like scene study. And that's like where the acting classes really started. And then I could take some electives my junior year and that's when my major requirements started. So that was like some acting electives and then a directing class, a playwriting class. And then I had to take Theater as Education one, and then senior year, Theater as Education two. And then we did like, we taught in schools our senior year too. Like, as like a shadow in like a local elementary school I would go to every Friday. [00:16:03] Speaker C: Amazing. [00:16:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And so that was great. And then developmental psychology we took. It was a lot of classes with this one professor whose name is Bethany Nelson, and she is amazing and she does amazing work for Boston and just literally the state of Massachusetts. She's such a proponent of like, and such a great voice for theater education in schools and like, that I learned a lot from her. So, yeah, that's it. And then, you know, acting classes. [00:16:38] Speaker B: How. How does one properly direct a child? [00:16:42] Speaker C: Yeah. What did you learn working directly with the kids? [00:16:48] Speaker A: I learned, you know, for me, what I took away from it was every. Every person, every kid, every person has their own learning style. And that is the biggest thing I learned. It kind of sounds basic, but it is like every person has their own learning style. And you have to like, in order to explain something to somebody, especially like a younger age, like you, you have to get on their level and you have to understand how their mind works and don't talk down to them at all. Like, they are people. They're obviously. But like, you know what I mean? But like I'm saying, like, they are people. But like, do you know what I'm talking about? Like, I growing up, like, I sometimes would really feel talked down to adults and it really. [00:17:44] Speaker C: Try to be collaborative with them. [00:17:45] Speaker A: Yes. You're like, I want to work with you on like, what's going on? Because, like, oh my God, dude, I get it. [00:17:53] Speaker C: Like, let's figure this out together. [00:17:56] Speaker A: And you also have like, you don't know what is going on in their life. So just like the different learning styles important to learn, like if you're a kinetic learner or like the way that. [00:18:07] Speaker C: You can sneak education into scripts and theater. I think my first ever paid writing gig was for a charity called no Limits for Deaf Children, where it's a group of deaf children and they go to basically after school classes because they're in the LA public schools and they're not getting the education that they need with their learning styles because they have cochlear implants and they're just like learning to hear basically like five years after the rest of us are. So they're learning language. And I was hired to write these plays for them where, you know, you intentionally include maybe words that they haven't learned yet, so they can learn them in context and they can learn how to memorize lines because that's, you know, how to craft sentences and things like that. And there are so many ways to sneak education and sneak maybe is not the right word, but to kind of include those educational elements into theater, that I learned so much from that. And you're right about just treating them like they are people who are smart people. You know, audiences are so smart and actors and people are smart because they have iPhones and they're used to processing information right really quickly. So it was like such a meaningful experience to be able to work with them head on and understand how education can really be put into theater. [00:19:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:37] Speaker A: I love that. [00:19:39] Speaker C: It's so, so cool. And I wanna go back to Luke's question, which is, how do you direct a kid? Like, how do you. Can you take us through it? Like, say there's like a one page scene and you're working on them with maybe it's memorizing lines or understanding the character. Like, what, what are you doing? [00:20:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. So I worked with. I've. I've worked well. I've made like. I've directed four short films at this point with like, you know, I've directed more stuff like in the past, like, but like as a teenager kind of. But like four short films I've done post Covid. My first one was called how to Cry in Command and that one starred this girl, Kelise Harger was her name. And she was 11 when we cast her. And the role required a lot of emotional availability. And the whole thing is called how to Cry in Command. And I was very aware of the irony of me trying to like talk about a subject like how these girl. How girls online, like Are like. And kids online nowadays are like demanded to have like, you know, everything figured out and like, no, they have to know how to like, brand themselves online and like, authenticity now and how. That's so weird. Like now. So it was like I tried to put it in there too with my ending of that film too. Of like, okay, I am like, there's a self awareness happening in this film as well. Regardless. Kelis had to cry in the film at the very end. And sort of the whole thing was like, okay, this is going to be tough. And to like, this is kind of the whole thing I want to like not do, which is like try to, you know, force a moment that doesn't feel authentic or, you know, like force something on this girl that like, I'm like, it's for the movie. But how do I do this in like an ethical way? And so what I did was I just started out before even the project began. I like, I met with her and her mom a few times. We like got coffee. We went to go get pie one time. We like hung out in like a park with her and her mom and whatever and we just would like, I talked, I got to know her and she's so sweet. Like, she was. We like went to a bookstore. We were just, were like, we hung out like with her and her mom there too. Like, just kind of like, oh, look, I want to give more of like a big sister vibe to you like that I can like, I have a younger sister now who's 14. I like have that, you know, energy, I've been told. So I'm like, okay, I can talk to you like this and like, let me know always. Mom is always going to be around if you feel uncomfortable, you know, like. [00:22:48] Speaker C: I, yeah, it's all establishing trust and. [00:22:51] Speaker A: Safety and all that that's so important. And also listening to the mom and the. And her of like what she needs. I'm like, okay, what's your favorite? Like, treat, like what, what do you like to do? Like, we'll have a dress up day on set, which we did do. We like our last day. We like all dressed up in like, for Khalees. Like we had. She. She really liked a certain, like anime and we were like, okay, like, let's like make it fun for you for this last day because this is going to be like an intense day. So just trying to like make the environment comfortable. And then she, I mean, most props to her. She like, she was excited to do it. She was like, no, because, you know, I always have like Are you cool with, like, having to, like, cry, be sad on camera? You know what I mean? Like, are you going to be okay? Like, let me know what you need, like, to get you there or not. Like, we can also fake it. It's no problem. [00:23:51] Speaker C: I giving the options. [00:23:54] Speaker A: Yeah, of course. And she was really down to do it, and she did an amazing job. She's, like, such a pro. It's crazy. And she was so great, and it's just about making her feel comfortable. But then there was a moment, too. I think it was one of our last takes of that scene. And she was like, okay, I think I need a break. And I'm like, a thousand percent. And then that's the number one thing on my radar. I don't know, maybe that's wrong. It'd be like, you know, no, we don't have enough time or this or that. But I go, that doesn't matter. It's all about the child. Like, whatever the kid needs. Yeah, whatever she needs is what needs to be a priority. Are you answer. [00:24:45] Speaker C: But are you so stressed during all of this? Like, are you. This is, like, stressing me out. Like, you're. You're like, there is a kid on set, and we are so, like, we're asking her to do something, you know, that's hard for an adult to do. You know. [00:25:01] Speaker A: We also had a studio teacher on set. Like, I always have whenever there's a kid there. I've been working with this one woman named Bethany for a couple of these projects that I've done, and she's amazing. [00:25:13] Speaker C: Not Bethany Nelson? [00:25:15] Speaker A: No, a different Bethany. Oh, wow. All of Bethany, I guess, is the name that's coming back. [00:25:20] Speaker C: There we go. [00:25:22] Speaker A: No, so, like, yeah, she's great. She's. She really with, like, the girls on that set, like, every day. Like, you know, she also comes from, like, a theater education background, so we really, like, made it. Like, she's, like, doing some theater games with them. Like, the girls in the. In our room are like, fun room or whatever. [00:25:43] Speaker C: Fun snacks. Like, I. Snacks are key, right? [00:25:47] Speaker A: Snacks are key. But yeah, like, we had her on set, so she was also a great liaison, too. Like, and I made that a priority with her, too. I was like, I do want this to be enjoyable, like, for not only all us adults out here, but, like, especially for the kids. Yeah, yeah. That's just important, is having, like, a great studio teacher. Honestly, like, yeah. [00:26:13] Speaker B: Wiley, how many people were in the crew? [00:26:17] Speaker A: It was a big one. It was crazy. It was like, it was 20, 21 and it was like. It was later 2021, but it was still. We were all masked up and. [00:26:29] Speaker B: Okay. [00:26:30] Speaker C: Oh, wow. [00:26:30] Speaker A: Like, it was like a 45 person. [00:26:33] Speaker B: Whoa, crew. [00:26:34] Speaker C: So how many days. [00:26:35] Speaker B: How many days did you shoot? [00:26:37] Speaker A: Three. [00:26:38] Speaker B: Okay. [00:26:39] Speaker A: It was just three. [00:26:39] Speaker B: Was that your biggest. Was that your biggest set at the time? Okay. [00:26:44] Speaker A: And still. Which is. That was my first one. And I was. I'm. I am just sort of an ambitious person. I'm figuring out through therapy, etc. And just like, I'm seeing it happen. Like, oh, wow. I'm like, randomly. I didn't really know this about myself, but I'm really ambitious. And that was like the first thing. And I was like. It was coming out of COVID and like, all the stuff being taken away from me and everybody. I just was like, I have to make this. It has to be the best thing that I've ever made. Like, this is going to be. I have to put all of my energy into this, which I guess, like, it does supplement, like, my thing of every. Every frame on the screen has to be, like, thought out. It has to be the best that I can make it. Like, I'm just so, like, okay, let's. Let's go for it. Like, I'm, you know, at the time, I'm like, what, 22. And I'm like, I'm getting old. So I have to make a perfect first short film, which. Oh, my God. [00:27:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:52] Speaker A: I'm so young. [00:27:53] Speaker B: But anyway, I mean, with. With that size of a crew and like, that being your first in quotes, like, real short. I mean, I guess the first question is, like, were these all friends? [00:28:07] Speaker A: I had a lot of friends come on and help me out, but I was so lucky to meet this woman named Caroline. Caroline, who is an amazing casting director. She is based in New York, but she had. Basically, I met her through my cousin Chloe Kerwin, who's an amazing actress in New York. Check out her stuff. She's amazing. She introduced me to Caroline because Caroline had passed her in something and she took. She took a look at my script while I was trying to, like, shop it around. And she loved it. And she was like, I want to help new, you know, up and coming female director creators. Like, I want to make sure that you do get to make this at the top of your intelligence, as they say. Like, that the most. [00:29:02] Speaker C: I love that. I love that phrase. [00:29:04] Speaker A: Yes, yes. It's an acting reference and improv reference, but I do. I love that. But yeah, so, like, she helped me out gather these. This, like, legitimate crew out yeah, she had the connections and, like, I cannot thank her enough. And I've worked with her on every short project thus far. She's cast everything. She's been an executive producer on everything I've done. Like, she's such a supporter. I, like, don't even really understand. I'm like, you're so nice for helping. [00:29:35] Speaker B: It's amazing. It's amazing. [00:29:36] Speaker A: Fairy godmother. I love her. She's the best. Hire her for your casting stuff. She just cast or helped cast, like, happy Gilmore 2 and anyone but you and stuff. She's killing it. [00:29:51] Speaker C: But anyway, that's amazing. It's. It's important to find the people who believe in you, you know? Did you. So you shot how to Cry on Command in la? [00:30:01] Speaker A: Yes. [00:30:01] Speaker B: Okay. [00:30:02] Speaker C: You were. You said you were in school when you shot that. [00:30:06] Speaker A: No. [00:30:06] Speaker C: Okay. [00:30:07] Speaker A: You were out of school, straight out of college. [00:30:09] Speaker C: Okay, got it, got it. And what did that time look like for you? Did you dive directly into, like, making the short film? Were you, like, you know, like, a lot of us, like, looking for an assistant job? So, like, what. Take us through your mindset at that point and then, you know, into this short. [00:30:29] Speaker A: In 2020? Yeah. Everyone was so affected and myself included. I. I think I just, like, really had such. I mean, this is so dumb to be, like, I had such a reaction to 2020. Like, yeah, whatever. I. It's a part of the story and all of our stories, but it, like, really left me in such a dark depression. [00:30:58] Speaker C: Yeah. Like, 2020 until, like, now is, like, the worst time to graduate college. It's like, it all. It's horrible. [00:31:08] Speaker A: It is so bad. Like, it was just so bad. I remember having a conversation with my friend, like, shortly afterwards, where we were like, oh, because we graduated in, like, May 2020, we were like, are we, like, pretty screwed? Like, are we pretty screwed for, like, five more years? And the answer is yes. [00:31:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:30] Speaker A: So anyway, I'm right out of that, like, you know, thing, and I'm like, I will not let the world dictate that I cannot do this. I have to do it. And it made me, honestly, I think, more ambitious and more motivated to do it because I was like, okay, like, groups. I'm like. I'm like, I don't care what the world has to say. I'm gonna make my movie. Like, you know, I'm going that route. And so I. I did it. And I, like, I gathered all as many friends as I could who I thought also, like, I really wanted to have a majority, like, female crew and same with cast. And I was like, okay, let's do it. Caroline introduced me to this producer named Roxanne. Roxanne Griffith. She's also phenomenal at what she does. And she was so kick ass. And she got the. We got a discounted rate to rent out this Catholic school in Highland Park. We did. Did it all. [00:32:42] Speaker B: Did you crowdfund for this? [00:32:45] Speaker A: So no. Carolene, she is a savior. So she, like, me and her, we worked on like, getting basically, like, people to send us money. Not crown crowdfunding. [00:33:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:00] Speaker C: To do it publicly. [00:33:01] Speaker B: It's amazing. [00:33:02] Speaker A: Yeah, it was amazing. She's. I'm like, this to her. [00:33:06] Speaker C: Yeah. What is that? [00:33:08] Speaker A: Some of my own money as well. [00:33:09] Speaker C: What is. Right. What is that process of finding those select people who, like, believe in you enough? And how do you. How do you, like, ship yourself around in that sense? [00:33:18] Speaker B: And on top of that. [00:33:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:20] Speaker B: That being, again, in quotes, your first real short. Because we all go through this as a first or like, when you're starting to make stuff for real. And, like, it's. It's not the easiest thing in the world to go. I mean, for some people it is. And I'm, like, kind of floored by that. Of like, you're just able to go to your parents, your cousin, or your uncle and be like, super confident. Like, I need X amount of money to make this short film. And, like, thank you. But like, I don't know. I. It's. It definitely, at least to me, is not, like, super natural, you know, especially when it comes to family and friends even too. So how is that process for you? Were you or where did you find yourself on that spectrum? [00:34:02] Speaker A: I was like, well, with Carolee, and she was so. Well, okay, so I met her. I'll talk about, like, how she was so supportive of me. And then, like, how because of her, like, it just. It came a little easier because of. She was like, okay, I see myself in you a little bit. Which is like. Is the best thing to hear from somebody like that. And she's like, okay, like, let's work on you pitching yourself. I'm like, you know, I'm definitely. I've been told by some casting directors in the past, I'm, oh, I'm a little quirky. I'm a little quirky. [00:34:47] Speaker C: I don't see that. But keep going. [00:34:50] Speaker A: They love that word. They love the word quirky. [00:34:53] Speaker C: And how does that word make you feel? [00:34:56] Speaker A: You know, I don't think that they're wrong. I don't think they're wrong, but I'M also like, God, I'm so much more than that. [00:35:04] Speaker C: Yeah, I've been, you know, in my time, I've been called quirky, and I think that there are better words. Personally, you know, expressive word. Expressive. Is that a word? [00:35:17] Speaker B: How does a quirky person feel about that? You know, I think we never hear that perspective. [00:35:23] Speaker C: Are you also in that. In that group chat with the rest of the quirky community, or is that just. [00:35:27] Speaker A: Yeah, it might just be you. [00:35:33] Speaker C: Cuckoo. All right. [00:35:37] Speaker A: But, you know, it doesn't bother me. But it's also like. Yeah, I don't know. I. [00:35:45] Speaker B: Can we. I'm sorry. [00:35:46] Speaker A: Because, like, to what we were talking about. [00:35:48] Speaker B: No, no, no, no, no, no. I want to. [00:35:49] Speaker A: To. [00:35:50] Speaker B: I want to lean into the. How to pitch yourself. Because, again, another thing that's really integral to, like, when you go out looking for money to. To raise, like, you need to be able to pitch the project, but also very much so pitching yourself. So what. What did Caroline tell you? Or was she just more of like a soundboard? [00:36:13] Speaker C: She was like, turn down the quirky dial. [00:36:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:15] Speaker A: She was like, don't be yourself. No, I. She was like. I think the main thing was my confidence in myself was pretty low. And that has just been the case growing up. And I grew up. Yeah. In la and, like, around all of these people, I always felt, like, knew what they were doing way more than I knew what I was doing, like, period, just in life. Like, I just. That's why I think I loved theater so much, is Cause it's like, all right, here's a script. Here's exactly what you need to be doing at all times. Like, that's where I, like, I loved it. I'm like, thank God. Finally there's, like, security. Whatever. That's for therapy. I won't bring that up. But I was, like, just confidence in myself really lacking. And I had, you know, these visions of, like, I want to be a filmmaker. That world builds and creates, like, a whole universe, even like, with my films. Like, I. I wanted. I have such, like, large ambition and. But I really wasn't giving myself permission to, like, really have that. And she was amazing. She was just like, wiley, like, you need to. You just need to actually believe in yourself. Like, you don't downplay yourself, like, as much as you already do. Like, I was really downplaying, like, everything about myself for a very long time. And she just really gave me that confidence of, like, no, you, like, make the deck and make it as thorough as you want to make it, because I'm so thorough in, like, sometimes a crazy way where, like, I'll work on a deck for like two years. Like, I'm like, so, like, everything has to be exactly like, whatever. And a lot of people, like, especially in school too. I think maybe I also, like, loved education or learning about it, because in school I never fit in. Like, especially not, like, academically. I was not good in school academically at all. I was very, like, very shy, very incompetent, not saying what I. The way that I learn is. Is not like, what's taught in schools. Like a traditional. I'm like, so all over the place. I'm very. Where I went was. I went to a private school for a long time that was very much like, here's the one way you learn things. I am, like, all over the place. It takes me, like, okay, I need to go into a studio and physically, like, make it do the edits in my head physically. And then I need to do the edit by myself, and then I take it to my editor. These are all things I wasn't even allowing myself to do because I'm like, oh, I need to feel the rhythm. But, like, that's weird, you know, But I'm like, whatever. [00:39:31] Speaker C: Yeah, own it. I think. [00:39:34] Speaker A: Learn your process. [00:39:35] Speaker C: And totally, when you're taught for so long that there's one right way to do stuff and you naturally are gravitating towards a different way and you're not given the permission to do it that way, no wonder you lacked some kind of confidence, you know, and you felt like you had to downplay your ambition and all of those things. And then when you met Carolyn, she kind of gave you permission to do the deck the way that you see yourself doing it. And in post, do the edit the way that you, you know, because that's going to be authentically you. And as a director with vision, that's like. You want to feel supported in that, you know? [00:40:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, completely. [00:40:22] Speaker B: How do you. Because I love. I just wrote it down. Learn your process and own it. How does one learn their process? If it's. I mean, has your process changed? I'm sure it's evolved over four short films. How do you. I guess, how has that process evolved and change and like, what has been the through line that kind of stays in the pitch, what that you own, you know? [00:40:45] Speaker A: Yeah. In the beginning, I mean, I didn't know my process and I think that was the first. That was the first step was being like, okay, I think I need these things, or I want to try something like, it feels like I'm not really getting this. Just sitting here at a desk, like, trying to figure out the. The, like, the shot list. Like, I'm like, I'm not really. Like, I need to be on my feet and. But then there's your background, you know, coming. [00:41:16] Speaker C: Totally. [00:41:18] Speaker A: But I'm like, okay. So I would have that thought and feeling, and I would just deny it because I'm like, that's not how you're supposed to do things, like. Or, you know, And I'm trying to, like, put myself in that box of, like, what I've learned. Like, not in film school because I didn't get the classes, but I, like, just by osmosis of, like, seeing videos online. Of like, yes, I was at my desk for hours. I'm like, okay, so I guess that's how you do it. But I just kind of let myself for how to cry and command. I was like. With her confidence, she was like, just like, take your time and figure out what works and what doesn't. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna go with my gut on all of this stuff. And I took a year for pre production, so it was like. And also it was Covid. So I was, like, so focused on it, and I was like, okay, I have nothing else to do. So now just let myself be like, okay. One night in the house I was living in at the time, I, like, put all this construction paper out on the floor and, like, I printed out a bunch of stuff in magazines, whatever, and I did a full collage of, like, is how it. The. The film was supposed to feel. And I was like, okay, let me, like, make it so that that's my first thing that I'm doing. And then I'm like, oh, now I'm figuring out story from this. I listen to the main thing I do now, which is, like, I listen to so much music, usually instrumental, like, in the car where I'm driving everywhere. Like, right now I'm working on my first feature, and I'm like, fully, like, every time I'm in the car, I'm listening to that playlist. I'm, like, listening to different combinations of the playlist. I'm like, okay, ooh, this is the feeling here. Or, oh, I like this instrumentation. Like, that's reminding me or that's unlocking a new image. [00:43:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:09] Speaker A: Really relate to David Lynch's process, too, of like, how he says, like, he, like, sits, meditates, and then, like, he catches an idea. Like, I love that and I relate to that. So so much. Like, once I see it, you're like. And it's usually music or, like, physically make it, you know, like, ooh, I have to. Then I go, oh, there's the idea. Write it down. Put it in my little flashcard thing. And my flashcard box, I love. Yeah. And. And then, like, then from there, I'm like, okay, story. There's. There's my feeling. There's my. Like, I have my music. I have the literal art and the images that are coming to me, and the aesthetic of it is all very, like, usually the same. And then from there, I'm like, oh, okay, let's now let's build the story. And, like, what do I want to say? Like, the images and the music and everything first. And then I'm like, okay, what's this? It usually always aligns with children on the Internet. [00:44:14] Speaker C: Yeah. Do you feel like the. Once you present those visuals, like, the story is already there and you just need to find it? [00:44:23] Speaker A: Like, are you that. That other saying of, like, the statues of the rock is underneath the rock? [00:44:30] Speaker C: But yeah, I like. I like framing things in terms of that. And it also feels like with your process, you are constantly exposing yourself to whether it's listening to music in the car that can, you know, you're putting on instrumental that you're like, okay, there's a moment that I will try to replicate. You're constantly in various parts of your life exposing yourself to other art that can influence what you're about to do. [00:44:58] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, you're. [00:44:59] Speaker B: You're living it. It's like, it's all very tangible. And I know filmmakers who do this very incredibly successfully, and, like, bravo to you, because you're absolutely going to be incredibly successful with this type of process, which it already has proven so in your work. It's, like, super clear. But there's this other aspect of folks who get stuck in this process and aren't able to bridge the prep to, like, finishing a first act, like, actually on paper. So how are you able to be so in it and, like, living and breathing this project and on your feet. [00:45:42] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:45:43] Speaker B: World. And then go to, like, shoot, now I need to write. [00:45:47] Speaker C: Go into final draft and, like, put. [00:45:49] Speaker B: Something on the page, which is. Because that. That, like, that's a crucial translation, but that's. That's something that, like, takes a lot of people. It's, like, impossible to make that step. [00:45:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:00] Speaker B: So how are you able to do that? [00:46:02] Speaker A: I'm still figuring it out as a writer. [00:46:06] Speaker C: Director, too. Right. Because sometimes they're just Directors who just do that part of the process. [00:46:10] Speaker A: Yeah, they're. The writing part of it is harder for me just because of, like, how I'm wired. Like, I've written and directed two things, but the other two I just directed. So those two things that I just directed definitely, like, easier for me to just be like, have all of this awesome, like, play time and then like, come to the text and be like, okay, I can now bring all of that here and totally. And which is awesome. When I'm. When it's writer director stuff that is like, okay. Now I have to definitely be like, okay, Monday through Friday at 11am to like 1pm that is all I'm doing is like, sit down, do this. I like, I like to go to yoga every morning. And like, after I do yoga, then I'll like, journal and I'll do this, like, for X amount of time. And I just have, you know, I have a big whiteboard over there and I'm very. Yes, I am very, like, creative over here on like, my right side of my brain, but, like, the left side of my brain is like obsessed with calendars and organization and like, wow. Yeah. Making. Making goals and like, making sure I meet the goals. This is what I mean by, like, I'm sort of randomly ambitious. Like, I'm like, okay, here's the schedule. I'm looking at it right now. I'm like, there it is, It's. And I like to schedule. I like to make things on my whiteboard. Like, I am. I'm 27 now and I miss school so much. Even though I didn't, like, really succeed, but I missed the structure. [00:47:50] Speaker C: You're making your own school for yourself. [00:47:52] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. [00:47:53] Speaker C: Your own curriculum. [00:47:55] Speaker A: Yes, I know. God, I love how all of this is coming back. Sort of like education. [00:48:00] Speaker B: Yeah, come on. [00:48:02] Speaker A: Love that. Hey, I love podcasts. I. [00:48:07] Speaker C: Don't get me started. [00:48:09] Speaker B: Don't do that to Wyatt. [00:48:10] Speaker C: Don't do it. [00:48:12] Speaker A: Are you a schedule fiend? [00:48:15] Speaker C: No, I'm a podcast fiend. But let's keep going. So you're creating this sort of curriculum for yourself? [00:48:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:24] Speaker C: So what? Yeah. What does your schedule look like right now? Or at least when you're in that writing part, right. 11 to 1, your writing. What else does that look like? And how are you starting? Is that blank page just so daunting? What does that look like? [00:48:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Are you outlining at that point? Do you have a massive, really in. [00:48:49] Speaker A: Depth outline for this feature right now? I don't want to jinx it, so I guess I Won't. But I'm like, yeah, I won't jinx it because I'm, like, trying to get the rights to something, so I'm not going to fix anything. But the thing I'm, like, working on right now is, like, I am spending. Like, I outline it first. I've been outlining it and, like, from there I'm like, okay, any kind of little details that I want to remember is in the outline and then I'll just take it. Like, just. Just do a stupid, stupid, stupid draft first. Stupid. Like, make it. I was always so. And I'm still working on this. Like, I'm such a perfectionist in that way where I'm like, okay, before it even hits the page, it needs to be perfect. That's, like, dumb. I. I now have learned better where I'm like, just get the draft done. [00:49:46] Speaker C: And nobody's taking a look at it. [00:49:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:49] Speaker A: Yes. Like, it's supposed to be actually the worst thing you've ever read. You need embarrassed afterwards. Like, it's bad. And I'm like, okay, so I have that in mind. Just write the bad draft first and make it be. You know, I'm always concerned as a female director and just, like, in mostly male spaces sometimes like, that I'm like, always like, okay, they're going to think I'm stupid or whatever, but I'm like, I have to just put. That's a fear sometimes of mine. [00:50:15] Speaker C: You feel added pressure. [00:50:17] Speaker A: Yes, yes, exactly. But, like, when I'm alone, I'm like, it's fine. I can be as stupid as I want. Just be stupid. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, poop, poop, poop, fart, fart, fart, far, etc. And then from there you do your mining and then you do redraft. [00:50:36] Speaker C: Redraft, chiseling, chiseling. [00:50:37] Speaker B: So is that you? Is that first draft? Is it quick? Is it, like, super painful? Is it painless? Like, are you just blowing through it? You're not even reading it. You're just like, every day you're one to three and then three to seven. Like, page. Like, like, what is. What is that? [00:50:54] Speaker A: I'm like, I. I have. I've had the thought during this process of, like, this is supposed to be bad. I also don't know if any of this is. You know, this is my process. [00:51:05] Speaker C: Totally. It's helpful for people who are discovering their processes. [00:51:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I'm like. And also my thing might change. Like, this is what's working for me right now. [00:51:14] Speaker C: But, like, of course it is important to Be open minded about that. You know that it can change however. [00:51:20] Speaker A: It comes to you. And you're. I love calling my, like our brain and my body like my instrument, which is like, that's helped me a lot to just be like, oh, look, is like, it's an instrument. Like, you have to know how to use it to the best of your ability. And everybody's different, so. Oh my God, we really are coming full circle on the education. Thank God. [00:51:45] Speaker C: Well, it makes sense because all of this stuff is. [00:51:48] Speaker B: I love podcasts. [00:51:50] Speaker C: All of this stuff is part of your mindset, you know, part, you know, as we talked about in the beginning of the episode, being open minded to process and doing things your way rather than the way that you, you know, have been taught. Which the way you're taught is helpful, right? To understand one frame of mind. [00:52:08] Speaker A: But yeah, and taking I, one of my teachers, acting teachers at Emerson, Lindsay, she is amazing and she was like, you, we're going to teach you a lot of stuff here in these acting classes here. But like, all of this is just for your toolbox. You don't have to use any of this if you don't want to. And she was the first teacher that had said that to me. It was like my senior year and I was like, yeah, I was like, right, what am I doing? I'm like taking everything as law, you know, like for so long, like everything that was taught to me in schools or whatever, I'm like, this is law. It has to be this way, you know, because they all say. And she's like, yeah, no, no, we don't know what we're doing. So like, maybe this works for you and maybe it doesn't. And I go, oh, yeah, some of this does work for me. Like substitution really works for me as like an actor that really works. But like, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes I'm like, oh, maybe I do need to try something else. [00:53:12] Speaker C: But yeah, I completely agree. I had an acting teacher who called it the tool chest, right? You're learning things, you're choosing which things to put in your tool chest. And it's so, so helpful. The more versions of stuff you can learn, you know, being curious, it's all. [00:53:27] Speaker A: That tool test versus toolbox. [00:53:30] Speaker C: Sorry, sorry, Toolbox. [00:53:32] Speaker B: I don't know what, I don't know what NYU is teaching you guys over. [00:53:35] Speaker C: There, but it's probably, probably toolbox. Yeah, guys, I effed up. It's. It's toolbox. But utilizing all the various methods as, as tools I think is really helpful. I, I Didn't do acting at nyu. But I, I, I think it, if I were to have done it, I would have done, you know, you do your first two years in a different. In, in one studio, and then I would have, like, tried to go to as many other places as possible to just understand the different methods, because that has been so helpful for me. Doing it outside of school, just like taking a Meisner class, doing Suzuki do like, all these other. And finding what works for you, you know, and then you end up becoming, like a, A mix of all of them, you know? [00:54:21] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. I love that. That is. Like, I, it took me a minute to, like, understand that because I was, I really wanted to have everything figured out right away. [00:54:32] Speaker C: Totally. [00:54:34] Speaker A: As soon as I graduated from college, I was like, okay, like, I have to know everything. Like, I have to. And then hence why I guess I, like, made that. And I was like, it has to be the best thing ever. But, you know, now I've even learned so much from, like, the three other shorts I've just directed. Yeah, like, I've learned so much. Even more. Like, thank God I went through all of that. And, like, I, Yeah, I always be open. Yeah, open to changing your mind and looking for new stuff. [00:55:04] Speaker B: It's. It's so clear that, like, we learn the most from actually, like, doing the thing. Like being on set, directing, shooting, everything, the entire process, whether it's the mood board to write it or outline to write, like, everything, and editing and working with a composer, all of that. How do you continue, like, how do you continue to work on those muscles when projects, I think as you kind of grow and your voice kind of gets a bit more unique, the projects you want to make start to. I think they either expand or, like, really condense because it's like, okay, I know this is going to take a lot of energy and time to, like, actually make the thing, and so I want to make sure, like, it's the right one. [00:55:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:49] Speaker B: How do you kind of balance that with, like, the understanding of no matter what output is output, and, like, this is just going to help me. This isn't going to be the one. And, like, take the pressure off and continue to grow and have that mindset, you know? [00:56:05] Speaker A: That is such a good question. Great job, Luke. Great job. I love podcasts. Great job. Okay. I mean, that's really interesting because I definitely do want to make everything. I put out the best version of it that it can possibly be. But I've had experiences, like, just with collaboration, like, it gets harder to have final Say on certain. [00:56:39] Speaker C: When you have 45 people on set, definitely, yes. [00:56:43] Speaker A: And, like. And you have to accept that. You're like, okay, yes, I'm the director of this project. Like, yes, I had the initial vision. But, like, it's not just you making the movie. It's like, you. All of these collaborators. [00:56:57] Speaker C: That's the beauty of it. And also, like, the hardest thing about it. [00:57:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It can be so amazing. Like, for example, on how to Cry in Command, like, I. There's, like, a moment where, like, all these different, like, crazy teachers are, like, just saying some random, like, Internet shit that I wanted to put in there, but that they're teaching the little girls in their celebrity prep class. And I was like, okay, well, like, that's like improv. I'm like, okay. Like, we're like, whatever you guys think. Like, I had the whole crew. Crew be like, what did you guys think? Like, what. Do you have anything funny, like, for this? [00:57:33] Speaker C: Yeah. So you're sourcing everybody possible. [00:57:35] Speaker A: Yes. Like, everyone on here, like, please, like, let's make this as funny or, like, as possible or, you know, strange as possible. And so that can be amazing, like, when you're working on, like, a final product, like, for an edit, and, like, once you start getting a little bit more, you know, involved with people who are, like, giving you money, for example, or, like, they're in charge of the final product, like, you can be. You're a part of it. But, like, there's an executive producer or producer that's, like, gonna say, actually, no, that's definitely really hard to deal with. But, like, you can only do as much as you can. I mean, everything that I have, like, the final say on, I'm like, all right, like, it's going to be how I want it to be of, you know, all this, there's so many layers and specific things that are hidden in the corner of the frame. And then also the editing is going to feel like some kind of. There's a certain rhythm that I really like or that I can. I like to feel in the room, like, if I. If I'm. If I have, you know, the final say on that, that's what it's going to feel like. If I don't, then it'll probably be something close to that or. And, like, maybe slightly different, which I'm like, I'm cool with. Because I'm like, I have to just be like, okay, this is the process. Especially when you're first starting out. You cannot be so picky. When you're, like, working with other people. Yeah, it's like, just about learning how to work with people. And like, yeah, you can have your own projects like that. Are you directed, written by, edited by, you know, created by. Which is like, that's amazing that you can do that. But then also, like, being so cool with, like, working with other people and being like, yeah, what do you think? And also being like, okay, film industry, sort of be like. Or maybe sometimes at the very end. [00:59:38] Speaker C: Is going to be like, yeah, well, when. When you have, I think, the ambition that you clearly have and you want to ideally put your work on a larger and larger scale, there are going to be more voices inserting their thoughts into your work. So the future is just a bunch of navigation of that and maintaining your creative voice and fighting the fights that are worth fighting is something that we're all figuring out what to do. I'm curious if we can pivot a little bit. You mentioned doing a deck. I think that it would be really helpful for our listeners to understand what makes a great deck. I'm curious if you have any thoughts on that? [01:00:23] Speaker A: Okay. My opinion is that. Is that it's thorough. I mean, for me, that is, like, if I see a deck that so clearly has. I think Greta Gerwig said this. Like, I like to watch movies that, like, clearly have a person behind it, rather than, like, a corporation or something. Like, I like to see something, I'll go, oh, if I can tell that there's passion in a film or in a deck, like, I'm gonna already like it just because I'm like, oh, this person really thought out everything like this. This isn't something that they're just, like, throwing together, making sure that the aesthetic of the deck itself also, like, supplements your vision for the movie. I hope that makes sense. And also the kind of storyteller you are, like, you can tell a story through a deck. You can tell the story through the deck. Deck. [01:01:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:01:31] Speaker A: But then I think it's important to always keep in mind, like, yeah, what. What is the message of your movie? Like, I really want to see that throughout. Like, yes, all your visual visuals are so important, obviously, visual medium, vibes. So I would say, like, I don't know, take your time, be thorough. Like, show what you want to show that. But definitely, like, go heavy on the visuals and the story. This is making sense. [01:02:07] Speaker C: Absolutely. [01:02:07] Speaker A: I'm also figuring it out. [01:02:09] Speaker C: No, I realize I kind of caught you by surprise with that question, but I think it's really helpful to understand what makes a good deck. And I think I see so many decks that are. The first page is like, this meets this, and then it's just photos from these other movies the whole time. And I'm like, you need that personal through line. What you said, what Greta says you need to see that there's an artist behind the deck, because that'll make it so clear on slide 8. Sure. Do comps do that. That's helpful for selling it too. And to frame it in terms of something that exists already. [01:02:50] Speaker A: But you gotta sell it. At the end of the day. You gotta sell it. [01:02:52] Speaker C: Absolutely. But it's that balance. And at the end of the day, the way you're gonna sell it is by selling your. Yourself, you know, and. And selling your personal, you know, stakes on the story. What. What are you doing formatting wise? Like, are you. Are you actually doing, like, act breakdowns in the deck? How much of like, the script are you incorporating into or the plot are you putting into it? [01:03:15] Speaker A: I'm putting all of it into it, making it as clear as possible. Like, I want it to be, like, foolproof, you know, I'm like, okay, yeah, everything that I'm supposed to put in there, which is like, yeah, you're the synopsis, the logline, all that stuff. And like, plot breakdown, characters. I really. I always do, like, a page for each of my main characters and then the supporting characters sometimes are, like, combined, but, like, definitely focused on characters having their own, like, section I really like because I'm like, yeah, this is going to be the movie is like, I'm going to need to buy into this person. So I'm like, okay, I want to know as much as I can about these characters. Comps for that all obviously, all great. But yeah, so I mean, I always start out with like, visuals, bookending them. Like, I start out with visuals and then I get to like, act one or, you know, whatever, and the characters. And then I put the crew on there and like, what I'm trying to. [01:04:25] Speaker C: Say, purpose, theme, all that, this. [01:04:28] Speaker A: And then bookending it with more visuals. And I always put like my playlist that, like, I've spent so long kind of thing sewing or whatever together. And then I have. Yeah. Music. I love Pinterest, you guys. It's the best place on earth. So, yes, I'm. I'm dragging ship from Pinterest and Shop Deck and that. I. That's. [01:04:55] Speaker C: We love Shop deck too. [01:04:57] Speaker B: Shot Deck's great. [01:04:59] Speaker A: Pinterest. I love Pinterest specifically because it can get. It's not just shots. It is like, I'm Getting, like, you know, artsy with it. And that's so fun. [01:05:09] Speaker C: Totally do whatever you want on there. [01:05:12] Speaker B: And that playlist is instrumental again. I remember you saying that. [01:05:15] Speaker A: Okay, yeah. [01:05:17] Speaker B: Instrumentals of like. Like, major songs or they're just like, instrumentals of, like. Are they like. [01:05:25] Speaker C: Yeah, like Mozart or. [01:05:26] Speaker A: Oh, no, I. I'm saying internal. I literally just mean music. I'm like. I usually like, a final playlist for me, like, when I put it on the deck is like, it will be the feeling of the movie. Like, I'll. [01:05:41] Speaker C: The arc of it. [01:05:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, the arc of the movie is in there. And the songs that, like, I feel are most representative of the movie in that moment. And the sound, like, the kind of, like, the tech. I don't really know anything for real about music, so it's just about how I hear it. My sister Peyton is like, a musician and a singer, and she knows so much about this stuff, but, like, I don't. I'm just like, how that little sound sounds. And she's like, yeah, great. I'm like, okay. Imagine me talking to a composer. It's crazy. I'm like, I like this little dingy dongy song, like, sort of thing. [01:06:23] Speaker C: Yeah, totally. That's why the composer's there, though. They can, you know. [01:06:28] Speaker B: Yeah, they like that. [01:06:29] Speaker C: Ideally, they can. They can translate what you're saying into like, yeah, totally. [01:06:33] Speaker A: I like my references for all of my, like, conversations with those department heads. I have, like, my references down. I'm like, okay, this is what I literally wanted to sound like, because me trying to explain. [01:06:46] Speaker C: Totally. Like, they're like, oh, that's what you're going. Okay. [01:06:50] Speaker A: Yeah, like this. And they're like, okay, so that's like, bleep, blop, bloop. [01:06:54] Speaker C: And you're like, huh, huh? [01:06:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:59] Speaker A: You don't get it. [01:07:00] Speaker C: Yeah. So this is the 5050 podcast, which is 50% creative, 50% business. So I would be remiss if we didn't get into sort of the business side of stuff, which we can. You know, we can do business light, because obviously we've gotten such great insight into your creative process, which I think will be sort of the crux of this episode. But I am curious about, you know, when you're finished with a film, you're talking with your producers about distribution, festivals, all of that. What is that conversation like? And what is your sort of view on the festival circuit and what to do with shorts after you're finished? [01:07:41] Speaker A: So, okay. I have now had four films do the festival circuit. The most Successful one was the most recent one I put out, which is called. I directed it, called thanks for having Me. Can you hear that? [01:07:54] Speaker C: That. Yeah, it's okay. [01:07:55] Speaker A: Okay. Rear Rare. So thanks for having Me came out. I hope everyone's okay. Okay, so thanks for having Me. [01:08:07] Speaker C: They're probably not. [01:08:09] Speaker A: Anyway. Okay, so let's go back. So the festival circuit. Thanks For Having Me was the one that, like, had the most successful success in the festival circuit so far. Hey, I'm putting out good feelers, but we just did the Palm Springs International Shorts Fest with that one and Holly Shorts and a couple other ones. But Palm Springs was amazing. Like, that was an incredible festival. They have amazing programmers. It was like three days of just like. Or at least I was there for three days. Like, we were all in Palm Springs. I met a ton of amazing people. Like, the seminars that they had and workshops and stuff. And, like, meeting people. And the screeners were great. And, like, the networking was, like, natural and not forced, and you could take what you wanted out of it. And we're in Palm Springs. It was like, a billion degrees, but. [01:09:05] Speaker C: It was so fun. Yeah. [01:09:07] Speaker A: Yeah. There are some other ones that I've been to that are, like. That haven't been, like, you know, amazing, but it's, like, a great. It's just a great opportunity, I guess, to, like, submit to wherever. But, like, not necessarily. I don't go to every single one. But the experiences I've had, like, with how to Cry and a couple of the other ones have been, like, really great to meet people in person who have seen. Seen your film. Like, that's. That's, like, the best thing that you can do. Or, you know, like, here's my work, and then here's me immediately after my work that you've seen. And now I'm making a personal connection with you. Like, it's great for that business, but I have had the most success by just putting it online. Honestly, that's been like. I totally recommend doing the festival circuit if you want to and can, because it's great. It can lead to new avenues. But, like, I've just discovered that, like, you're gonna get the most traction if you put it online and you promote it online. That's how to cry was on NoBudge.com. it, like, yeah, premiered on no Budge. And that is, like, I got my most views from. From there. And then we did a no Budge live, like, screening. And then I met people through that community there, which was great. So I'm like, yeah, do both. But I've had the most success online. Yeah. [01:10:43] Speaker B: That's incredible. And that's great to hear that there are options. Not within the festival circuit. You know, like, there, there are other ways. [01:10:51] Speaker A: You know, just put on, like I just did. I just directed and was in this, like, quarter hour pilot thing that I made with my friend Isabella and. [01:11:01] Speaker C: That. [01:11:01] Speaker A: Like, we decided just not to do any festivals with that. We were like, this is for the Internet. Like, let's just put it online. Yeah, that's exactly where it found its. [01:11:11] Speaker C: Like, what is a quarter hour pilot? [01:11:14] Speaker A: Like, you know, like on Adult Swim. [01:11:16] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [01:11:18] Speaker A: They have like 15 minute, like the shorts. [01:11:20] Speaker C: Yeah, great. [01:11:21] Speaker A: Yeah, we just made one of those. It was fun. [01:11:23] Speaker C: Cool. Love that. That's like a very tangible thing to do. It's like a short kind of, but, you know, doing that sort of pilot format. [01:11:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:31] Speaker B: Wiley, I have a, I have a. A very quick final question for you. Sure. You can, you can take a. Oh, my God. [01:11:40] Speaker C: I know. We're almost through here. [01:11:42] Speaker B: Final. [01:11:43] Speaker C: Last lap, everybody. Last laugh. [01:11:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:47] Speaker B: What is the dream? [01:11:51] Speaker A: Oh, my God, the dream. The dream is I. I have a book. This is so crazy, but I have a book of this. It's the Sofia Coppola archive on my coffee table. And I look at it every day and I'm like, that is. My dream is to, like, I have two dreams that. One is like, I want to have a book like that one day. Like, that is like, of worlds that I've created that are most. That are mostly about women and children and digital anxieties. But, like, I want to be like, a feminist filmmaker. I just, like, I think that that is like, so amazing. Like, just the kind of work she's done and creating that kind of like, stamp of. This is a certain style. Like, I, I just love, I love that book. I look, I'm looking at, at it now. Like, that gives me motivation to like, oh, wow, okay. I can be that kind of artist that has like a book of all of their, like, of all of their projects and it all makes sense and they're all so specific and everything that is like my, you know. [01:13:10] Speaker C: I love that. [01:13:13] Speaker A: But like, real dream, real. Like, what do I want to, like, leave on this earth is like, I am so passionate about education, like, actually, and I. And all of this. I want my films to, like, reflect and like, make that kind of change and reflect off of, like, all these issues that we've been talking about and protecting children online. Like, thanks for having me. Is about, like, protecting your kids online and like, monetizing. Your child's image is wrong, etc. And like, all of these things about protecting kids, I really want to, like, make these. This feature I was in that's going to come out, I think next year is also about that. Like, that I just love. I want to make a difference in that way. Like, have the conversation about kids online, like, and protecting our next generation from some stuff that is like, you know, online can be so crazy and intense and, like, so demanding of adults. But, like, for kids, it's just like, I can't even. I'm watching my sister grow up through it and then also meet, like, I'm the oldest Gen Z, I guess, but like, she's like, Gen Z, Gen Alpha Cusp, you know, And I'm like, you grew up with an eye. You're an iPad baby. Like, this is like watching this happen in real time and seeing, like, just developmentally how it's affecting all these kids. Like, I'm really passionate about trying to understand and, like, work from. For protections for kids on the Internet. And like, yeah, that's kind of like the true actual, like, goal is, like, is making that issue come to life and then like, supporting female and queer artists and everything. Like, that's. I really want to continue doing that. [01:15:18] Speaker C: Well, that's. That's amazing. If you, if you keep that close to your chest and you do everything you do with that purpose, you are going to be so successful. And I have no doubt why it is. I. I have met very few filmmakers, you know, who are so young, who have such a clear message and thing to say. Usually those messages are developed through a whole career, you know, so. So I've. It's been such. It's been such a pleasure talking with you, seriously, because we've. I've learned so much. It's been. I feel like this has been a very important episode that anybody can learn tangible stuff from or creative stuff from. So really, thank you. [01:16:06] Speaker A: Oh, my God, that's so nice. Actually. Like, you guys are so nice. Thank you for having me on. This is my first podcast, so I'm like, oh, great. [01:16:17] Speaker C: We. We love to hear that. [01:16:19] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Wy. We're going to use that when you blow. We're going to say we were her first podcast. [01:16:25] Speaker A: Oh, well, I. I did this one podcast during, like. [01:16:29] Speaker B: No, no, you didn't. No, you didn't. [01:16:31] Speaker A: It's not about film. It's not about. It was literally like, I was improvising some. Like, it wasn't about film. [01:16:36] Speaker B: It wasn't a podcast. [01:16:37] Speaker A: Yeah, thing about my, like, process things for. For, like, validating. You know what I mean? Like, that's really kind of you guys to, like, reach out and. Luke, I'll see you at Christmas, all right? [01:16:48] Speaker C: Okay. Why? It's not okay. [01:16:54] Speaker B: No, we'll do something. We'll do. All three of us. We'll do some. Yeah, come on. [01:16:59] Speaker C: Yeah, we'll. We'll. We'll grab. We'll grab coffee or something, the three of us. [01:17:03] Speaker A: But I would love that. [01:17:04] Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me for coming on and. [01:17:07] Speaker A: Nope. [01:17:08] Speaker B: Why do that one more time. [01:17:10] Speaker C: Thank you so much for coming on and we'll. We'll see you around, Wy. Thank you. [01:17:16] Speaker B: Thank you, Wy. Did you learn something? I'm like your mom. Did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging out. Make sure you follow us at the 5050 Fest on Instagram and give us five stars, because. Why not? Why not subscribe? Why not? You know why not? Okay. By.