Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: If you get good, people will see you and that will be your networking calling card. I think a lot of times people sometimes spend too much time trying to like, just hang at shows or go to shows and be. But it's like, get good on stage. People will start talking about you and talking about like, oh, that person's really good, or they're a really great joke writer or that. So I think getting good is in essence networking.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: I'm Luke Steinfeld.
[00:00:26] Speaker C: And I'm Wyatt Sarkisian.
[00:00:27] Speaker B: We made the 5050 podcast to support you on your filmmaking journey.
[00:00:31] Speaker C: 50 business, 50% creative.
[00:00:33] Speaker B: Every Tuesday, a new how to.
[00:00:35] Speaker C: This week we chat with standup comedian Vanessa Jackson. Highlights of her career include becoming a writing apprentice on the Late show with Stephen Colbert, eventually landing a coveted writing gig at SNL and emerging as a major threat in the NYC standup scene. Tune in.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: And then next is LA for you. Probably on the quiet list, right?
[00:01:04] Speaker A: 100. We'll see the next couple years.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:01:08] Speaker C: Have you spent, have you spent a lot of time in la?
[00:01:12] Speaker A: Yeah. After college I lived there for about three years before moving out to New York.
[00:01:15] Speaker B: What was the, the three year experience like? And what were you doing straight at school?
[00:01:21] Speaker A: It was great. I was doing. So I was working at a company called Full Screen and then also E News.
[00:01:26] Speaker C: Oh my God.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: Things. Yeah. Full Screen. Full Screen, Yeah. I don't know what they are now, but when I.
[00:01:34] Speaker C: It's techie, right?
[00:01:35] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like an influencer marketing agency. When I was, I was working for, they had this like streamer essentially where they did this thing where they were like, we're going to take all of the biggest creators in the world and we're going to put them in these hugely high production shows and then everybody who follows them is going to come to our platform. We're going to be super successful. Except for they learn the hard way that nobody follows influencers to other platforms.
[00:02:01] Speaker C: It's like, that's so true.
[00:02:03] Speaker A: It was a lot of like, well, if I can get Shane Dawson for free, why would I watch him in like a show? It was it totally hard. Very quickly.
[00:02:12] Speaker C: YouTube won very quickly. Was it, was it like a subscriptions? Did you have to pay for it?
[00:02:17] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, it was like Netflix, but for te. It was like they put like Nash Greer, I don't know if you know him, like, like all of them. All the biggest, like YouTubers, Viners at the time, they tried to put them in shows and then people were like, well, I don't want to watch Them act.
[00:02:34] Speaker C: Yeah, totally. I remember Cody Ko and Noel Miller worked there.
[00:02:38] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, yeah, they work with me, which is great. But yes, immediately went down so quickly.
[00:02:44] Speaker C: I remember I. I loosely remember the full screen days. And, like, they put out a couple sketches there.
[00:02:51] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, it was like one year and then it was like, oh, this is not good.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:02:58] Speaker C: Wait, so you got looped into full screen pretty soon after graduating college, right?
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Yeah, pretty soon after. Maybe like a year or so.
[00:03:06] Speaker C: Okay, and how did you. How did you get that gig? Like, what was, what was that trajectory? Were you doing a lot of, like, sketch comedy stuff in college?
[00:03:14] Speaker A: No. So I worked for their editorial team at the time. I was doing a lot of, like, writing and freelance writing. The way I got into comedy, weirdly enough, was through trying to be, like, entertainment journalist, which is so strange. And ended up, like, taking classes to learn how to do red carpet reporting. And I ended up being a lot funnier than I was charming.
[00:03:32] Speaker C: You're like, can the camera be on me?
[00:03:33] Speaker A: Actually, then I was like, let me lean into the whole, like, comedy of it.
[00:03:38] Speaker C: All right.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: What is a red. Red carpet interview class entail?
[00:03:46] Speaker C: What are specific.
[00:03:47] Speaker B: Yeah, what?
[00:03:49] Speaker A: It's a scam. I learned that very quickly too, which is basically red number one. It's journalism. But that's not what the class was. The class was literally how to become, like a red carpet host. And so it was like you paid a ton of money to have people teach you, like, different skills, but all the teachers very clearly were just taking this money and, like, not really prepping anything, which was insane. So it was like, we had one class on, like, improv and then one class on, like, this guy, literally. Actually, the story of how I got into standup specifically was the guy who was hosting this class, like, one of the teachers of it. He was trying to teach us how to do, like, live hosting, and which really was code where he just didn't have anything prepared. So he was like, I think There was like 30 students in the class. And, like, it was a three hour class. He was like, so every one of you is going to go up and you're going to do five minutes of keeping us entertained.
[00:04:45] Speaker C: And we were like, oh, my God.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: And he was like, because sometimes, you know, you got to just on the fly, make stuff up. So you're gonna spend five minutes just keeping us entertained and pumped. I was like, okay. I went, like, dead to last, like, maybe second to last, and had a really good, like, time and got laughs and it was great. It went quickly and Then the guy was like, oh, well, you're a stand up. And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. And he goes, well, it doesn't count because you do stand up. And I go, I. I don't know what you mean. He was like, you're a stand up comedian. I go, I never done stand up in my life. And so then I was like, maybe I should try stand up. Clearly he thought I was faking it.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:05:22] Speaker C: Was. Was that. Did that. Because obviously that five minutes was, you know, something that reminded him of like, oh, this person's experience and this person's done this before. Was that like, do you think you're like a subject of your influences or like, subconsciously you kind of were just like good at it and you, you had seen it enough or what do you think caused that?
[00:05:44] Speaker A: I listened like comedy albums and stuff and I've always been like a writer. And so I essentially what I did was I went up and pretended that I was hosting like a live pop culture comic con event or something and I just made a bunch of jokes. Like, I just started thinking in my head of jokes and yeah, they just worked. I don't know how.
Yeah, it's very weird. But yeah, I think when I started doing comedy, I realized that I did have a skill at like jokes and joke structure that I didn't realize that I had had where I was like, oh, I pretty easily know how to like write a joke.
Yeah, it's crazy.
[00:06:25] Speaker C: Yeah, that's so interesting. And then, so from then on, was journalism just kind of like put on the back burner and were you full steam ahead with stand up?
[00:06:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, at the time I was working at E News, so I had a really great. Which was really fun. I always tell like, comedians and stuff. It's always good to have a job that you can do during the day that's not super like taxing or anything like that. So it was just writing like celebrity stories, like photo galleries and things. And I had got to do that from like 9 to 5, which was very fun. I loved it. But it wasn't like very stressful or very like a lot of brain power exerted, which was great. And then, yeah, started taking classes at like UCB and Second City and started doing stand up. Took a stand up class just to learn. I'm a big class girl.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: Helpful because it was just like all women in that class. And yeah, it was fun. And then just kind of, yeah. Hit the ground running. And then within like a Year I got my first job in comedy, which is crazy.
[00:07:25] Speaker B: So were you, were you thinking stand up? I know why I just said kind of like full. See my head on, on stand up. After that, that moment in class.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I was. And that was my first endeavor was to like go take a stand up class and learn it. The thing was the LA scene was so it's just, it's a brutal place to start. It just is. It's a lot of people who's like managers and agents sent them out to do stand up and like, yeah, people are just like not fully like super interested in actually being comedians, which is crazy. And so it was a lot of just like 70 year old men who were like, I've been doing this for 50 years, kid.
And I was like, oh no, I don't want to be mics when I'm like 50. That's. Oh, it's scary. And so I kind of pivoted to like sketch comedy. But then when I moved to New York, standup was always like my favorite. And so that's when I really was like, all right, I'm going to give it, give it a go to like really be a stand up comic.
[00:08:23] Speaker B: And so three years. Three years in L A. Pass your. You find the love for comedy. Like what was the reason for New York? Just kind of following the stand up scene?
[00:08:33] Speaker A: No. So I got hired as a writing apprentice for the Late show with Stephen Colbert.
[00:08:39] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: And then yeah, that moved me to New York.
[00:08:42] Speaker B: That's awesome.
[00:08:44] Speaker C: Yeah, that's it. That's like a legendary position. Especially now that's like, you know, only so many people will ever have that position. That's pretty special.
[00:08:51] Speaker A: Special rip.
[00:08:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I know. Seriously, I'm curious about specifically, you know, you said you were at one time in like an all female improv group or class at ucb and what was that community aspect like for you starting in LA specifically? Were you. Because stand up and improv, they're such sort of community based things, you know, were you finding that there was like, you know, you were obviously like really career driven, but were you also finding that there was like that sort of social element to it that you were enjoying or what was that like?
[00:09:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean it's so much of like getting jobs and things in comedy is just like word of mouth and people knowing that you're like around and doing it. And so a big part of it is like community and like finding your three or four couple of like four friends who you're like, oh, okay, we can Go to open mics together. We can book each other on shows. We can. I think that's like huge if you don't have that. As much as it's like such a solo sport, it also really is like something where you need other people or it's just like you're gonna get lost.
[00:10:02] Speaker C: Totally giving each other jobs. Right. Like, you get lucky enough to like get a hosting gig at some bar or whatever and then just hiring all your friends, you know, because, you know, they're talented, they're reliable, all that.
[00:10:14] Speaker A: Exactly. That's a huge part of it.
[00:10:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:17] Speaker C: And then comparing that to New York, you know, you came to New York, you were working for the Late Show. Were you still pursuing standup pretty heavily or what was that balance like?
[00:10:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I had started doing a little bit more sketch in like la and so then when I came to New York, I was like, well, this is the Mecca for stand up and I love stand up. So that's when I really, really was like, hit the ground running and then just pivoted to kind of doing mostly stand up.
[00:10:40] Speaker C: How did, how do those two scenes differ? Like, were you finding that New York was different in some way?
[00:10:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, from the stand up scene for sure.
I mean, LA truly is like, everybody's trying to be an actor, so it feels like stand up is like the thing that they're doing to like maybe get seen by an agent where in New York it's like people who do stand up most likely just really want to be stand up comedians.
And so it was a lot of like, people who are interested in joke writing and like getting up on stage every single night and very collaborative. So that part of it was way different. And just people who I was like, oh, these feel like my people. These are people who are like actually like writing jokes and yeah, like comedy itself. Not just the idea of being famous, which was helpful.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: Was it, was it easy or difficult to kind of break into the, the scene? As in click wise, like finding those, those friends that you were talking about being so important to have?
[00:11:41] Speaker A: Pretty easy, I think. I think once you kind of get to know people or people kind of know you and they see you and they think you're funny or whatever. I think it's a lot easier to find like a group of people that you kind of mesh with that is interesting.
[00:11:54] Speaker B: I, I, it's like you're kind of drawn even you talk about like classes too and stuff. Like you're kind of drawn to people naturally just by putting yourself in certain situations.
[00:12:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. 100%. And then people who. You're just like, oh, I like that person's set or whatever. And then you. And also, as big as comedy is, it's also very small. You just start seeing the same people over and over again. It shows at different things like that. And so, yeah, you just start to become friends with people in that way, too.
[00:12:21] Speaker C: That's so funny. Because people. It reminds me of even the business side of entertainment a lot of the time, because, you know, I work as an executive assistant and something that bosses have told me in the past is like, if you just stick around, you're going to slowly, just for lack of a better term, like, rise to the top or you're going to. Slowly, you're going to get promoted or whatever. Like, if you just find a good place and you work really hard and you do it, you know, it's kind of like. And it's similar with standup, right? Like, so many people find a new job or drop off or realize that it's not paying the bills or it's worth it or whatever. And if you just kind of stick around and you find those people who you value and you hold on to that, you kind of do rise up. Would you say that that's kind of the situation?
[00:13:08] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. I think it's all that combined. I feel like it's both talent and also hard work and, yeah, people who can give you opportunities and things like that. But, yeah, there. I do think that there is something to, like, sticking around and things working out and then also moving smart in a way, because I have seen people also who just stick around for years and are doing open mics for years.
[00:13:32] Speaker C: Sure, sure.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: Kind of like. Yeah, so it's a little bit of both, for sure.
[00:13:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:37] Speaker B: What is the. I guess the question is what's more important, Networking or working?
As in, like, in a standup sense, it'd be writing a ton of jokes and not really focusing on making those friends or anyone in the industry. And it's just like, I'm gonna perfect my set and let that kind of lead me.
[00:13:57] Speaker A: Oh, good question. I. My personal opinion is if you get good, people will see you and that will be your networking calling card. I think a lot of times people sometimes spend too much time trying to, like, just hang at shows or go to shows and be totally good on stage. People will start talking about you and talking about, like, oh, that person's really good, or they're a really great joke writer or that. So I think getting good is in essence Networking, if that makes sense.
[00:14:26] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. It's letting the people come to you in a way.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: It is such a double edged sword though. Or just conversation. I feel like that comes up so often of like what's more important? You know, it's like you want to be going to the mixers and the festivals and the shows and like meeting.
[00:14:44] Speaker C: Everyone, but then you have no time to like just focus on yourself and like ground yourself, you know, there's so.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: Much to get off the ground trying to be a creator. Especially now it's like. Yeah, because it's like you have to get good on stage, you have to do the actual thing you want to do. But then there's also so much other stuff that goes into play. Especially with like social media and posting clips and things like that.
Yeah, it's a lot, which I'm sure.
[00:15:07] Speaker C: We'Ll get to definitely. But it's, it's is really interesting. I feel like I go back and forth and it's. You got to find that balance, right? You have to find that balance between like I could get drinks five nights a week if I wanted and I could, I could meet a different person at a different company.
You know, that wouldn't be hard to do but then I would have no time to like read scripts and get my own writing done. Like all that stuff is equally as important, maybe more important so that I can like show up to work and like have thoughts and be, you know, seem smart, you know, 100.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: And also I sometimes think it's harder in LA because it's so nice.
Like, like I feel like people get really lost sometimes in LA because there's a party to go to all the time. Or like it's totally beach and like in New York it's a lot. Somebody described it recently as really funn. It's like a little bit miserable to live here. So you really feel like you gotta hustle.
[00:16:01] Speaker C: It is, I mean there's, there's, there's miserable parts to each city. Definitely I think that's the conclusion here.
[00:16:09] Speaker B: If you've ever been to Silver Lake.
[00:16:15] Speaker C: But yeah, it's, it's definitely an interesting conversation. Have you at any point in your career like gone too far onto one side?
[00:16:25] Speaker A: Good question.
It's a really great question.
[00:16:30] Speaker C: Maybe you're just perfect, you know, that's the conclusion. Okay. For sure.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: No, I have missed like events or things where I'm like, it probably would have been good to meet with people instead of going to do this terrible bar show. So I definitely made that decision.
[00:16:47] Speaker C: Right, right, Totally.
[00:16:49] Speaker B: What's. I guess at what stage is one looking for. For representation and stand up? If you don't want to be an actor and you strictly want to be.
[00:16:59] Speaker A: In stand up, I don't know. This might be the worst advice ever.
I don't think anyone should look for representation.
I just think that it's like, this is all coming from. I got agents and managers after I got hired for Saturday Night Live.
But I really do think, and I've talked to a lot of people, like, and it's a little bit different in, like, the writing world, I guess, sometimes, especially if you want to do, like, scripted narrative, that kind of a thing. But as far as, like, stand up and things like that, you should wait until somebody sees you and is excited about you. I think sometimes people. Because also the truth about agents and managers is they can't really do anything for you. They can only leverage what you've already kind of gotten. You know, I mean, if you have an incredible script, they can help you sell it. If you have a show that you're really passionate, you wanted, they can help you go, whatever, get staffed in a room, things like that. Like, if you have a really tight 10, they can help you get, like, a set to go somewhere. But, like, I think a lot of times people spend more time trying to search for agents and managers, not realizing that, like, if you don't have anything to offer them, you, like, there's. There's not much they're gonna do for you and they're not going to be excited about you. I feel like you have to wait until somebody sees you, sees a script that you've written or something like that and is excited because then they're going to be able to work, like, 10 times harder for you.
[00:18:19] Speaker C: Totally. So was that. Was that when you were starting up in Stand up, was that at all on your radar? Like, oh, should, like, were you asking that question? Like, should I get a rep? Like, were you seeing other people who had reps?
[00:18:30] Speaker A: I was not.
I don't know. I. Like I said, I genuinely.
Sometimes I feel like I'm not a great example to talk to you about because I genuinely follow just my passion. And I was lucky and blessed enough that it, like, worked out, but it. It was. I went into it more with, like, I really like this thing, and I'm researching on how to do it more and how to get on stage more and how to write a better joke. I was never really, like, looking for the representation and stuff of it all, which I should have like, learned a little bit more about that.
But yeah, I, I really wasn't as much.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: When you say passion, is the passion in a broad sense of just comedy or getting on stage in general, or is it like you're really into joke structure and seeing how certain words lead to reactions from an audience? Like, what is it that you're so passionate about?
[00:19:28] Speaker A: I think all of it. I just really, when I found comedy, it felt like a thing where I'm like, oh, this is a thing that I'm supposed to be doing. Like, for some reason, it just really came naturally to me. And there's things I've had to get better at and work on, like performance wise and things like that. Like that. Of course, like, I look back at some of my first tapes and I'm like, how did I ever continue doing this?
[00:19:48] Speaker C: But like, but in the moment you were like, I'm the best, you know?
[00:19:51] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: And I was just really driven by, like, this feels like a thing that I'm good at. And I'm just gonna keep writing every day and trying to write new jokes and trying to get on stage as much as I possibly could. And so I was more driven by that than like the idea of getting a job or getting hired in it, which was something that was obviously on my radar. Of course I'm not gonna be like, I never cared.
Clearly, I definitely did. But I, I wasn't so much focused on like getting a job or getting an agent manager as I was at getting better and getting good.
[00:20:24] Speaker B: Right.
[00:20:25] Speaker C: In terms of that progress, what, what was changing as far as your act? Like, are there any things that you, you know, if you watch a tape of yourself 10, 15 years ago, you're, and you're doing X kind of joke, and you look at that now and you're like, oh, I was doing this, this and this wrong. Like, what, what? Are there huge things that you're noticing that you were just like doing wrong?
[00:20:50] Speaker A: 100%.
Which is crazy. I mean, it's so crazy. It's like they describe it in stand up, especially about like how many years you've been doing it is like kind of how old you are in stand up. Really? So, like, I've been in comedy, I think so seven years. And so it feels like I'm like a seven year old now, which is like, I always have to remind myself, because you feel like you've been doing it forever.
But there are things now that like, even when I first started, my sister came to like my very first show that I ever did. And she was like, oh, that was great. She goes, it's funny. You guys were all kind of doing Amy Schumer, which makes sense because it was like an all women show.
[00:21:28] Speaker C: And like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:21:30] Speaker A: Biggest stand up at the time. It was like 2018, 2019. She was like the biggest female stand up in the world. And so when you first start, you're kind of just imitating whoever it is that you love at the moment. And so I think looking back at, like, my first sets, you just don't have your own style. Like, I've always been good at writing and learning how to write a joke, but, like, delivery and, like, performance and timing has always been the thing that I, like, have to consistently get better at.
Yeah, 100%. So I look at that and I'm like, oh, I've made huge strides in that realm for sure.
[00:22:02] Speaker C: Totally finding your voice, you know, finding your uniqueness.
[00:22:07] Speaker B: How much of standup is intrinsic and, like, you're born with it verse.
Someone can, like, learn it and pick it up.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: Oh, good question.
Andrew Schultz, another comic, he had a good thing that I heard before, which I think personally is true, where he was like, I think comedy can be honed, but it can't be learned.
And that's something that I feel like I've seen a lot where I'm like, there are people.
It's so controversial because everybody has a sense of humor and everybody has made somebody laugh for sure. And like, the reason that you start is because you're like, oh, I'm funny. I've made people laugh before in my life, obviously.
But there is a different skill set that involves, like, making people who don't know you laugh, being able to, like, translate your thoughts and your process into something that, like, you know, I've even gotten on stage and you're like, oh, my gosh, my friends love this idea. Yes, they were laughing. And then you try and say it on stage and everybody's like, right, right, yeah. And so I do think that you can definitely hone a skill set and you can learn how to get better at writing a joke and delivering a joke. But I don't know, sometimes I'm like, I always compare it to, like, having an ear for it. And there are some people, you see where I'm like, I just don't think you have an ear for, like, what makes people laugh.
[00:23:29] Speaker C: Or like, yeah, it probably helps to, like, be in it too and see so many people. You know, if you're going to a show, you're seeing five, six other people Perform right before you. You know, understanding, like, oh, I'm gonna. You know, I'm gonna. I'm gonna take that. Like, I love what they did there. Like, not actual material, but I love the way they presented themselves in that way. Or I don't love that, and I should not be doing that, you know?
[00:23:52] Speaker A: Yes. 100. Everybody has their own style, which is really cool. And it's the reason where it's like, you should always just go with whatever works for you. If it's working, it's working totally.
[00:24:03] Speaker B: When did you feel like you were on stage and you're like, oh, this, like, this joke or this set? Like, that is me. Like, this is. I'm not Amy Schumer anymore. Like, this is. This is me.
[00:24:16] Speaker A: Oh, good question. I feel like I'm just now kind of starting to get to that era, weirdly enough, where I'm like, I feel like I'm starting to really come into my own and be like, okay, this feels like me, and this feels like something distinct from what other people are doing and very unique and different.
[00:24:32] Speaker B: Is it just confidence? What, like, what was the genesis of that?
[00:24:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I think just confidence. I think just getting on stage, the thing you don't realize, which is really true, is it's very unnatural to get on a stage and tell your thoughts into a mic for an hour or so or 15 minutes or 10 minutes or whatever. And so really, truly, like, the more you do it, the more natural you become at doing it and the more, like, loose you are and able to, like, come up with a bit or a tag or a thing like that. And so, yeah, I think it's like, every year you think you're like, okay, I think I'm the best that I've ever been. And then another year goes by, and you're like, oh, I'm so much stronger now. Or. I understand, like. Or this bit goes into this bit, and now I can blend that. And, yeah, you just get better in that way.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: Is it like runners, where it's like, you know, the first bit of training. I'm sure Wyatt can speak this a whole lot more. He's the runner here. But, like, you're cutting a minute off your mile, and all of a sudden you're cutting tenths of seconds off? Like, that kind of range of.
[00:25:31] Speaker C: You're polishing rather than, like, carving, you know?
[00:25:34] Speaker B: Like, are you still carving, or are you like, Paul? I mean, at this point, it sounds like you're polishing, but.
[00:25:39] Speaker A: Yeah, no, but that's a great. That's a really great. Yeah. Way to describe it. Yes. It's like a polishing. You start to get to a point where you're like, oh, if I just change this one thing, or, like, maybe if I slow down here, if I do this. Yeah. There's like, little things that you're like, oh, that gets a much bigger laugh if I do it this way or that way. And so, yeah. Kind of in, like, the refinement era of, like, all right, here's how you do little tweaks, and here's how you do this. And. Yeah.
[00:26:02] Speaker C: Is there no. Is there no better feeling than, like, figuring out, like, a joke, like, understanding, like, oh, this is the thing that worked, you know?
[00:26:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: 100. When you get a new joke, you're like, okay, look at me go.
I love that I did it again.
[00:26:18] Speaker C: And then how, how. And maybe I'm just overthinking it, but how conscious were you in, like, crafting your. Your stand up Persona, you know, and moving away from Amy Schumer and going towards you, you know?
[00:26:32] Speaker A: Yeah. I honestly, I don't know that it was really a conscious thing. I think it just happened naturally. And, like, how when you get more confident being on stage, you start to kind of deliver things in, like, your funny way or the way that you would do it. And.
Yeah, I think it's just like a slow process like that, for sure.
[00:26:50] Speaker C: Cool.
[00:26:51] Speaker B: Just takes time, it seems, like.
[00:26:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: With. With bombing and stand up. I've done stand up, I think, twice in my life.
[00:27:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:01] Speaker C: And more than me.
[00:27:03] Speaker B: Well, I did. I took a class at usc, so we did it, like, every day for a semester, so I did a good amount there. But, like, actual shows, I've done two and both. I feel. I feel great after. I feel horrible before, I feel really good after, and then I feel terrible shortly after that where I'm like, I don't. I don't ever want to do that again. Like, this is horrible. Like, how did you.
I don't know. Like, I. A recent trip to New York saw stand up, as I usually do out there. And, like, you see some of these stand ups up close, and they're just so confident, and they're just so, like, sure that their set is funny. And even if they're not getting laughs, they just keep moving and they're like, I know it's funny. Like, you might not be laughing, but this is funny.
I guess the question is, like, how to. How do you bomb so many times? I don't know. Maybe you didn't bomb that much, but like, still be building that, like, self confidence that, like, your stuff is good.
[00:28:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, no, I bomb. We've all. It's just, like, a part of. No matter how good you get aware, you get you always. That's the thing that I love and hate about stand up. You can never just be like, I. I did it. I. I know you can never really coast because it depends on the crowd.
[00:28:18] Speaker C: I don't know.
[00:28:19] Speaker A: I think it's, like.
I think it's doing it enough. And when you have jokes that you're like, all right, this Joke has worked 98 of the times that I have done it. So if it's not working tonight, maybe it's just a weird crowd or to. Whatever. I think just once you've done something enough and, like, you know that, like, okay, this is a tried and true joke that I have. Or this is a great set that I have. Or, like, yeah, I think the confidence is built off of that. And then also, you do enough shows and you go, like, sometimes you're just not.
Mitch Hedberg has a really funny joke that I've always loved, which is, like, not everybody's gonna love you. And sometimes they're all in the same room.
A really great way to describe stand up. Sometimes you just have a crowd, be like, these are not my people.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: It's not me. It's. Yeah.
[00:29:05] Speaker A: Yes. 100. Like, I've done a few shows in Atlantic City before, and it's always like, an older kind of primarily white crowd who's been married for, like, 50 years. And my set is about being young, black, and dating. And they sometimes do not go on board with it. And you just have to accept and go, like, it's not bad jokes. These people just genuinely do not relate to that perspective. And you go, okay, cool. And so I. I do think a lot of confidence is built in just being like, I have done this enough times that I know that this is a skill that I do have. And even if it's failing me in this moment or if it's, like, not working. And also, sometimes you gotta fake the confidence, because sometimes you're like, this is painful, and I am bombing. But it makes it 30 times worse somehow, at least for me, the way I do it, it makes it worse. If you start addressing like, you guys suck.
[00:29:54] Speaker C: You guys are like, oh, yeah, sometimes, right?
I've heard both sides, right? Because I feel like some comedians will address it and they'll have, like, a clever way of doing it. Or sometimes, like, being, you know, it makes the audience feel like they're finally like connected to you in a way.
[00:30:11] Speaker A: You know, 100 I. It really just depends on your style.
[00:30:15] Speaker C: Totally.
[00:30:16] Speaker A: Point of view, at least for me. I feel like I have a very positive high energy on stage and I feel like if I address that, it's not going well. The crowd's not liking me. It feels like that person at a party who keeps being like, I'm bored, like, I don't want to be here. And you're like, okay, then go home.
[00:30:30] Speaker C: Totally.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: Totally. Yeah.
[00:30:32] Speaker C: You're in Atlantic City and you're doing a 10 minute set and it's five minutes through and nobody has like, there's a couple chuckles in the back.
Maybe it's. Maybe it's your friend that you brought on the road with you.
What are you doing? Are you just blindly maintaining confidence or are you trying another. Are you calling an audible and like trying a different joke out or what? What are you doing?
[00:30:59] Speaker A: I don't know. I. Some. It really depends. I mean, I used to do a lot of like, okay, they don't like that bit. Going to another bit. Going to another bit.
And then you're just doing like half segments of things. I talked to a comic, he's been doing it for 30 years, so he was like, you know, it's your.
This is your material. And you gotta go out there and just be like, this is my material. You guys can laugh or you cannot laugh, but like, this is what I'm bringing to you. And so now I've kind of had to have that approach too, where you're like, this is who I am. Like, sometimes, truly crowds are not going to like you. It in the moment though, it's so painful. It is very weird to go up and deliver a joke and it's not working. And you're like, what is going on? And you're just like, yeah. And sometimes you'll look. Make the wrong eye contact with the wrong person in the crowd and he's just like, yeah.
[00:31:44] Speaker C: It single handedly drains all the energy from your body.
[00:31:49] Speaker A: Exactly. That's awesome. I love how bold you are right now.
Yeah, it's. It's painful when you're up there, but it's like one of those things where you just have to accept, like, it happens and it. It's gonna keep happening. Like I said, there's never a time in stand up where you can just be like, these jokes are great. These people will laugh. Like, it depends on context too, and setting. And sometimes you're like, this is just not my. It's not my space.
[00:32:13] Speaker C: Yeah, you're kind of always running that risk every time you get up on stage. You know, like, that's. That's part of it.
[00:32:20] Speaker A: Yeah, it really is. You never know what people's energy is or. Yeah.
[00:32:25] Speaker B: So how hyper aware are you of the audience, if at all? Or you like looking at the wall behind them like you don't even see them at a certain point? Like.
[00:32:34] Speaker A: No, I'm very. I look at the audience a lot. I'm very much performing like two people, which used to scare me, but now I really love it.
I don't do a ton of crowd work, but I definitely will do crowd work. Nothing like too invasive or anything like that. But yeah, I'll ask people where they met, how they met.
[00:32:52] Speaker B: What was the difference of, like, your time doing it to the wall first? Like really connecting with the crowd, like, what is that difference?
[00:33:02] Speaker A: I think it's just more comfortability and also just more trusting yourself. I think the thing that people don't realize too, a lot of times is like, like, crowd work is like, it's more satisfying to get laughs based off of your jokes and your material. But crowd work is also a high wire act, which people don't realize too, because it's like if you ask a person a question and they start rambling on and on about yesterday and I went on vacation and blah, blah, that happens. And then you're like, oh, you can lose control very easily with crowd work.
[00:33:32] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:33:32] Speaker A: And so I think a lot of times you get nervous because you're like, I don't want to say anything, or I want to make eye contact and make them speak at me or anything like that. And it's like, the more time you get on stage, the more you're like, okay, whatever happens, I'll be able to diffuse it and handle it. But yeah, it is. It can feel stressful when you're like, I don't want to bait the crowd or anything.
[00:33:50] Speaker C: Totally. There is. There is kind of like also an element to crowd work, which is like, if I'm an audience member, I like, I don't want to be called on, you know, and I can't speak on the whole audience. But you want to make the audience feel like they're part of it and they're engaged and they're like, they're safe in a way, you know, like, you're not gonna like, tear them to shreds and make Everybody uncomfortable, you know, 100.
[00:34:12] Speaker A: And people do get uncomfortable. And there are a lot of people who do not want to sit up front or. Don't be.
[00:34:16] Speaker C: Totally.
[00:34:17] Speaker A: Somebody genuinely looks terrified. If I talk to them, I just stop talking to them because it's not fun.
[00:34:22] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:34:24] Speaker A: It makes people weird.
[00:34:25] Speaker B: Or you're.
[00:34:25] Speaker C: Yeah. You're not that kind of comedian. Because there are comedians who will dig in. They'll. They'll see. It's like a shark. And there's like a.
[00:34:33] Speaker A: You know. Yeah, I've seen. I was in a show last night where a comic was like, oh, you guys are on the fifth date. Have you had sex yet? Like, it's just. Yeah, people will go for it. It's not my energy at all.
I don't want to do this.
[00:34:46] Speaker B: Totally.
[00:34:47] Speaker C: And then, speaking of material, I'm curious, would you classify yourself more as, like, topical jokes or are you digging into, like, personal stuff?
[00:34:54] Speaker A: Okay, digging into, like, personal stuff. Sure.
[00:34:57] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:34:57] Speaker A: I don't really go with, like, topical, political, anything like that.
[00:35:00] Speaker C: Yeah.
That's interesting, though, because you obviously are a writer too, you know, and you. And you do especially, like, on snl, you are thinking about current events and looking at the world in a specific way, you know?
[00:35:11] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. So you would think that I would do more topical, but. Yeah. I don't know. Well, I mean.
[00:35:18] Speaker C: But also, like, on snl, I feel like a lot of your sketches were, you know, on. On a more personal level. Right.
[00:35:24] Speaker B: You.
[00:35:24] Speaker C: You weren't.
[00:35:25] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:35:25] Speaker C: Doing a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:35:28] Speaker A: I don't know why. I'm just. Yeah. News and stuff doesn't fascinate me as much. And also, it's like, you, at least for, like, stand up, it's like you, like, write a good joke about a topic and then you can't do it, like, three months later.
[00:35:42] Speaker C: Totally, totally.
[00:35:44] Speaker A: It's good if you're just trying to, like, post it or something on social media, but.
[00:35:47] Speaker C: Yeah, sure, sure.
[00:35:49] Speaker B: Did. Did SNL approach you to write, or were you thinking, like, what. What was that process?
[00:35:55] Speaker A: No, they were after the pandemic. They lost a bunch of riders just because people were like, I'm gonna live in LA now. And so they were hiring a ton, and they did, like, open submissions, which they do once in a blue moon. And I had submitted actually, a few times before, but, yeah, I just did an open submission and then heard back, like, three or four months later. It's crazy.
[00:36:15] Speaker B: Whoa.
[00:36:16] Speaker C: What did that comprise of? Like, what did that actually look like? Was it a packet that you had to submit?
[00:36:21] Speaker A: Yeah, they have a standard packet. It's about three to five sketches. One of Them has to be topical character. One of them has to be.
Oh, no, sorry. One of them has to be topical or pop culture. One has to be a character sketch.
One is.
What's the other one?
Topical pop culture character pair, commercial parody. And then two of whatever you want. If you want to submit to more.
[00:36:46] Speaker C: Cool. And did you also. Were you also able to submit like your stand up stuff or.
[00:36:51] Speaker A: No, no, I just straight up did a writer's packet. Yeah, I never did on. On camera casting or anything, which. Thank God, I love writing for the show. Being on cast is stressed me out. One time you had me just stand in for somebody for a second during rehearsal.
[00:37:09] Speaker C: Get me out of here.
[00:37:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I was reading the cards like it was like.
And so then I.
[00:37:15] Speaker C: You've never read anything before.
[00:37:18] Speaker A: Really crazy.
[00:37:21] Speaker C: Do you remember your sketches that you submitted to get hired on Tess and L. Yes.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: One of them, the topical pop culture one was. Do you remember when Vogue did. They're like 73 questions or 72 questions.
It was Chet Hanks doing a 72 questions with Vogue, but he was clearly in his father's house, which was really fun.
And then the commercial parody was a Walmart during COVID because I got hired right after Covid and so it was like a Walmart commercial. But I think the joke of it was that this is so of the times. I think the joke of it was that like Walmart, we don't care about COVID protocol, come on over to Walmart.
And then I did a.
The one that really got me hired, I got told was I did a game show called Hot or Tall and contestants had to guess if somebody was hot or just tall.
[00:38:18] Speaker B: That's great.
[00:38:19] Speaker C: Yeah, that's awesome.
Did you. So you were writing for Colbert when you submitted your packet or what exactly was the timeline?
[00:38:29] Speaker A: No. So I was a writer's apprentice for Colbert.
[00:38:32] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:38:32] Speaker A: Then I used to have this thing called Apprentice program which is like people switch from like different departments to different departments to like learn how to produce or how to whatever. And so I was with the writing department and I stayed with the writing department.
[00:38:46] Speaker B: So.
[00:38:46] Speaker A: Cool.
Yeah, it was really, really fun. And so that was about a nine month program and they wanted to hire me. The only jobs. They want to give people jobs essentially after. And the only jobs they had open was.
What was it? It was in their footage department, which was. The hours would have been insane and it wouldn't have really allowed me to do like stand up and comedy. Yeah. And so I left after that and I was just freelance writing. I Went back to freelancing for, like, E. News. And then during the pandemic that was maybe end of 2019.
And then during the pandemic, I got hired to write for my first writing job was. Which is a show that's since been canceled, but I got hired to write for season two of A Little Late with Lilly Singh.
And then after that, got canceled, and then I got hired for snl, I think, like, six months later.
[00:39:36] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:39:37] Speaker C: Got it, Got it.
Wow. So you. You get into the writer's room at snl. What is that like to start? Is it like, are you super intimidated? Are you like, this is my lane. I'm going to stay in it? Were you collaborating right away or what did that look like?
[00:39:53] Speaker A: I mean, there's no way to not be intimidated, because it really is just like, yeah, it's historical. It feels insane. They kind of throw you to the wolves. I always joke because my very first day, my boss, like, came to my office and Owen Wilson was hosting my first episode. And he was like, oh, do you want to go talk to Owen Wilson? And I thought he meant, like, shoot the Breeze with Owen Wilson. And I was like, nah, I'm good. And he was like, no, you. You have to go pitch him your ideas.
I was like, oh, okay, yeah, now I'll do that.
I don't know why he was asking me if I wanted to, like, do lunch. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:40:25] Speaker C: But why would.
[00:40:27] Speaker A: Yeah, why would I do that?
[00:40:28] Speaker C: We always have the new writers just grab lunch with the host.
[00:40:31] Speaker A: So it's like, classic. No big deal. But I remember I was pitching him idea, and I, like, showed him my sketch, and he was, like, reading. He was like, oh, this is really funny. He goes, how. How do you want me to say this line? And I was like, I don't know. This is my second show ever.
I didn't say that. I was just like, the way you said it was great.
[00:40:47] Speaker C: He's like, I'm not. I'm sorry, I'm not going to direct you, Owen Wilson. I'm not going to be your director right now.
[00:40:52] Speaker A: I wanted to lean in and tell him, like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't.
[00:40:56] Speaker B: Yeah, you do.
[00:40:57] Speaker C: You should not be talking with me right now.
[00:40:59] Speaker A: That's crazy. So they really do just, like, trial by fire, I think, is actually better. I think it would stress me out more if they sat you down and was like, do you know what you're about to do would be crazy? But, yeah, you got to learn everything on the fly. So it's an insanely fun, stressful, but fun job, for sure.
[00:41:17] Speaker B: Was there any sort of mentor there for you or someone that kind of took you under their wing a little bit or. It really is like you said, you just get. Get thrown into it, and you're just. You got to figure it out for yourself.
[00:41:27] Speaker A: You do. But, like, thankfully I have. There was a writer who had been there a few seasons before me named Jasmine Pierce, and she was like a guardian angel. I love that woman to death. She really took me under her wing and just, like, was like a voice of reason, a person I could talk to if I needed questions or anything like that. She's awesome. We're still, like, really close friends. And then Anna Dresden, who is one of the head writers there, was also super, super great. So I love working with both of them. Yeah. So there are people. And then Brian Tucker, who's also great. There's a lot of people who, like, yeah, we're willing to lend a hand and, like, if I ever needed anything. So that was really helpful.
[00:42:01] Speaker C: And then first few weeks, were you. Did you feel like you were, like, rapidly growing and getting a hang of things or, like, how long do you think it took for you to really find your. Find your footing?
Or did you never. You know, like, I've heard of even cast members who feel like they never were.
[00:42:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:19] Speaker C: Fully in it.
[00:42:21] Speaker A: I. Let's see. I think at the beginning of my second season, actually, I was talking to Jasmine because I was, like, panicked about something or whatever, and she was like, at a certain point, you have to realize that this is your job and you're not auditioning.
And that actually really helps me a lot to just, like, get kind of a calm center of, like, all right, I'm here. I'm doing fine.
They like me. It's great, right?
[00:42:45] Speaker C: They hired you for a reason.
[00:42:47] Speaker A: Yes. 100. I think it's just always kind of a place where you feel a little unstable, but there are ways and things that you can do where you're like, all right, I feel a little bit more comfortable. But, yeah, I think I. I don't think I ever got there and was like, all right, I think Lauren's gonna hand me the reins to this show.
Got it from here.
But, yeah, I think I felt a little more comfortable every season. A little bit more.
[00:43:11] Speaker B: Were you still finding time to get on the stage for Stand Up?
[00:43:15] Speaker A: Yeah, but it was hard. I mean, the way that the show works is you have three weeks on and then two weeks off a lot of times. And so during those three weeks, I pretty much did not do stand up. I. I tried if I could on like Sundays and Mondays, but it's a six day work week and the hours are insane.
[00:43:32] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:43:33] Speaker A: So I mean I really. Yeah. During the two weeks that we had off, I would book most of my shows and like get on stage. But yeah, it was almost impossible.
[00:43:42] Speaker B: Is it, is it like fun with all those hours and stuff? Is it like, oh my gosh, like this is just like the military for writers, you know, like in a fun way or it's like this is insane.
[00:43:56] Speaker A: Yeah, it's really fun. It genuinely is. And the nice part about it is it's not like it's not like some jobs, like I've had jobs before where they're like, like we own you. When you are on the clock, you are on the clock. They are very much like because the hours are insane or whatever. It's like if you go grab dinner when you don't have anything to do or you go grab a coffee or you walk around or whatever, it's very like as long as you're where you need to be and getting your writing done as you need to do it, it's not like you're gridlocked and you have to be there. But it is like, you know, on Friday night you might have a shoot where you have to get there at 6am and you're not done till 9 and then you have to go punch up a script until like 12:00am and then help with blocking your wardrobe or something like that.
[00:44:36] Speaker C: Ye, yeah.
[00:44:36] Speaker A: So that's kind of the reason that the hours are insane. But you were never like trapped there. Like if you had a couple hours, sometimes you would have a couple hours to kill because your sketch isn't blocking till 5pm, but it's like one in the afternoon. You were totally welcome to like go grab a lunch or like take a little nap in your office or something like that. So it definitely was very free flowing in that way. It would have been insane if you were just trapped in your office for like 15 hours at a time.
[00:45:01] Speaker C: Well, yeah, I feel like, I feel like they understand the creative process. Right. Which is sometimes like truly driving yourself insane through lack of sleep and then thinking of something amazing, you know, or like it's going to have a dinner with people and then maybe an idea comes from that, you know, it's like a very free flowing thing. I feel like. And SNL understands that the hours would probably be shorter if they like stuck to a regimen and Schedule all the time, you know.
[00:45:29] Speaker A: Oh, totally. And that's the part that was nice. And people always think, like, oh, they made you do certain things. You have to write certain things. And the thing that I always really loved about SNL was like, yeah, they were very much about, like, if you're blocked and you need to go grab a coffee, go grab a coffee and then come back and rewrite. Like Steve Higgins, who was one of the executive producers. Really, really great man. And he was always like, the comedy does not come from banging your head against a keyboard and trying to force a joke. Like, like, sometimes you gotta take a breather or, like, do a second or go watch a movie or something like that. I think that's huge. Yeah. Living life for comedy is a really, really big part of it. And they really emphasize that, which I.
[00:46:08] Speaker C: Loved totally now, despite the 15 hour days and the. Just the absolute insanity of it all, because, you know, on one hand, yeah, it is the creative process and everything, and you are staying up late because that's what writers do. But you're also like, you know, you're making a show in a week. You know, you're making an hour's worth of material, an hour, 10 minutes worth of material in a week. So it's like insane on for everybody there. Writers, you know, directors, producers, grips, everybody.
So were you able to at all, like, find a routine? Because I feel like that would. Knowing myself, if I were to do that, I would be like, I need to, like, know when I'm waking up in the morning or know when I'm going to work out or like, things like that that are, like, important to me. Did you find that ever?
[00:46:57] Speaker A: Absolutely not. No.
[00:46:58] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:46:59] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:47:00] Speaker A: I just, it. I. I felt the same way too, because I. I'm a very, like, organized. I always joke. Before I got this job, the way I would write was like, I'd light a candle and I'd get a little chocolate and I'd sit down.
[00:47:11] Speaker C: I literally, like, set a timer for my. Like, I'm like, I need. And I. And I say, for the next 50 minutes, I'm not doing anything besides, yeah, 100.
[00:47:20] Speaker A: And no, it was not conducive to that schedule. And I had to learn that sometimes you get an email that's like, hey, in 20 minutes, we need 18 jokes about Kamala Harris. And you're like, okay, great, I will have that to you immediately. Like, it just. You have to be willing to do it on the fly. And like, sometimes you're like, okay, I don't Have a sketch in the show tomorrow. So I. I'll have a free couple hours in the morning. I can get things done. And then you get a text. It's like, hey, can you help out with this sketch and be there at 10 and you'll be done at 2am so, like, it just was like, truly. I always described it for three weeks at a time. I, like, did not have a life and did not see my friends. And sometimes you were able to be like, hey, are you free? And the next hour we can grab a drink or something. But, yeah, it just. You had to. And luckily, I have a great friend group and great family who just understood, like, the hours are insane.
[00:48:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:48:06] Speaker A: But, yeah, sometimes you were just like. It was a little crazy for sure.
[00:48:11] Speaker B: What was the. The biggest takeaway from your time there was?
[00:48:15] Speaker A: Oh, that's a great question.
Honestly, I think it really is like, comedy boot camp. It taught me a lot about, like, you have to be willing to be okay with just pitching things and having those things not work, and that's okay. I think, like I said, I'm a kind of a perfectionist. A lot of times I like to sit and I like to write and I like to work out. And it was a really good exercise for me. And just like. Like, you gotta say something off the top. Maybe it's gonna get a huge laugh. Maybe it's gonna get silent. Like, you just gotta keep pushing along. And so for me, I think that was the thing that helped me really, really develop a really strong, like, thick skin in comedy, was just like, you're. Tomorrow, people are going. You're gonna be in a room full of people reading your ideas, and it's gonna be the best comedic performers in the world. And sometimes that sketch is going to kill, and sometimes it's going to fall so flat, and people are gonna be looking around like, who wrote that?
[00:49:08] Speaker C: You're like, I don't know.
[00:49:11] Speaker A: Is that my.
That's weird.
Yeah. Yes. And that's okay. And you just keep it pushing and. Yeah. Accept it. So I think that taught me a lot. For sure.
[00:49:22] Speaker C: Totally. Do you feel like you had. Because that in a way that's bombing, you know, like, did you have a thick skin just from doing standup before and, like, understanding, like, not all jokes are going to hit.
[00:49:35] Speaker A: Yeah. But nothing prepares you for, like, for.
[00:49:38] Speaker C: The room of the highly respected comedian.
[00:49:41] Speaker A: You know, I remember I. Kenan Thompson, who I love, he was also a really great mentor for me, and one time I wrote a sketch for him that was like, a callback to his Nickelodeon character. Remember Pierre Escargot?
Dear Lord. He let me write the sketch, and he put his name on it. And when I tell you, that thing was read to almost silence. I mean, it was. And Keelan is an incredible comedian, so it was not him. Him. It was me.
They weren't like, oh, this guy, after 20 years, kind of stunk up the plate and then. No, they were looking at me like, this new writer who has a fetish with Nickelodeon, this weirdo. Yeah. Made him read this dumbass sketch.
[00:50:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:50:26] Speaker C: Like, what is she. What information is she keeping, you know, against him? Jesus.
[00:50:32] Speaker A: And it was so nice of him to just. Just help a new writer out and. Yeah, and so it's things like that where you're like, nothing prepares you for that.
Nothing.
[00:50:42] Speaker B: What about. What about, like, the flip side of that? Was there, like, one kind of, like, pinch me moment of like, oh, my gosh, like, how did. How did I get here? Like, how is this really happening?
[00:50:53] Speaker A: I mean, I wrote a sketch, and a lot of times, sketches are extraordinary collaborative. So you write sketches with other people.
And one time, I wrote just my own sketch for Dave Chappelle. Who do I think I am? I don't know. And it was only me on there. And before table read, you go to the host dressing room and you just tell them like, hey, here's the sketch. Here's the idea of it. Have fun with it. You're trying to get them, like, excited about it. And I went to his dressing room to go tell him, and he was like, oh, which one is it? And I go, oh, that one. You could read it later. And he was like, no, I'll read it right now.
[00:51:31] Speaker C: So he read it in front of you?
[00:51:32] Speaker A: Yeah, in front of me. And God bless his soul, he laughed and was like, this is really funny. Thank you for writing this. And that was the nicest, kindest compliment I could have gotten. Even it didn't. It played fine. Not the greatest. But I was like, y' all can't tell me nothing?
[00:51:47] Speaker C: Of course.
That's like, what a priceless moment.
If I went. If I got told to go into Dave Chappelle's dressing room with anything that I had written, I would just.
[00:51:58] Speaker B: Just.
[00:51:58] Speaker C: I would rather just, like, jump off the bill. Like, I would rather. I would melt in the room. That is the most intimidating thing ever.
[00:52:05] Speaker A: 100. I literally was trying to be like, no, you eat it later.
[00:52:09] Speaker C: No, I'll just go, I'm fired. Right? I'm fired.
[00:52:14] Speaker A: I'll pack my.
[00:52:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll leave. I'll pack my stuff.
[00:52:16] Speaker A: I'll have my desk up. Don't worry about it.
[00:52:19] Speaker C: Oh, my God. Jesus.
So I'm curious, you, you know, post snl, what was that like for you to leave the show and, you know, have more time to do standup, probably? Or were you going straight from SNL to a different gig or what? What did that look like?
[00:52:38] Speaker A: No, I needed to sleep.
[00:52:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:52:41] Speaker A: The joke is you either stay three or four years or you leave after, like, 45. And it was one of those things where it was like, I feel I got to leave at the same time as my girl Punky, who I wrote with. With. And so it was. It felt very funny. Oh, I love Punky so much. But it felt like a good time to leave. And I was just like, I was tired and exhausted and so working on, trying to develop things, hopefully moving into, like, narrative writing, which would be great. And then, yeah, I just doing Stand up, I got to tour a lot more this year. I finally got to sleep, which was the biggest thing. But, yeah, I'm working on my hour, trying to tweak that. I just, like, recorded like a 30 minute special that just. Just came out on Amazon prime, which, yeah. So it really has allowed me, like, the freedom and ability to, like, really work on my own projects, which has been awesome.
[00:53:28] Speaker C: Totally. Do you find that you're having to, like, reclaim that sense of self through your writing? Because obviously you're writing, you know, sketches and for other people so often. So what is the. Was that a big sort of change that had to happen?
[00:53:44] Speaker A: 100%. It feels like I finally am like, oh, I get to write and use my own voice again. Which has really, really been a lot of fun.
[00:53:51] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:53:53] Speaker B: You also probably know, I mean, like you said with Stand up too, at the beginning, when you just have to consume a lot and try a lot of things and see what works and what doesn't. Like, at this point, you've written so much where it's like, I've done so much for other people and I know what I like. I know it. Dave Chappelle likes is also what I like. You know, like, you've had moments like that where it's like, like, oh, that's my voice now. I mean, it's probably refreshing, if anything, to be able to, like, really sit down and be like, this is what I want to sound like.
[00:54:20] Speaker A: Yeah. 100. I think that's the beauty, truly, of Stand Up. Why? The reason I love it and keep doing it no matter what. It's Just like writing for a show is so much fun and it's so cool, but there are so many other voices that are like, oh, don't do this joke, or I don't like that, or whatever. And so when you get to do stand up, it really, truly is just you. It's just you and what the audience likes and what you like, and you can say whatever you want. And it's like there's no freedom like that. And so fun when people are like, laughing at what you're saying. It's so fun.
[00:54:48] Speaker B: What did being surrounded by, if anything? I guess. What did being surrounded by a list talent and like, I guess just the. The best comedians on the planet do for you or, like, show you or illuminate anything, if anything.
[00:55:03] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, a lot of it was just like watching people's professionalism and how they handle things and just honestly getting a peek behind the curtain that people were like, oh, that's exactly like Emma Stone when she came, I was like, oh, that's. She deserves every single ounce of fame and success that she has ever. She is insanely talented in like, a really, really crazy way.
[00:55:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:55:24] Speaker A: Personal. And see people's processes and how they interact and stuff. That was, like, so helpful.
[00:55:30] Speaker C: Yeah, totally.
What was it like writing for people? Because Emma Stone's so good at comedy, you know, like, she's. She's such a comedically gifted actor too. And. And I feel like she gets it. You know, she's done it. She's hosted so many times. You know, she's. She's done it enough times and she knows the pacing of that place. What is it like pitching to someone who, like, isn't a comedic person at all, you know, and it's just like.
[00:55:55] Speaker A: Oh, it just kind of depends on, like, their vibe and their whole thing.
Yeah. Like, athletes are always super game because they never get to do anything like that. Sometimes serious actors get way too methody, way too hands on.
So you have to be like, no, this is just.
[00:56:15] Speaker C: Yeah, Yeah.
[00:56:16] Speaker A: A lot of, like, how would my character react? And you're like, just fun.
[00:56:20] Speaker B: Nope.
[00:56:20] Speaker C: Just in the sketch. It's all there. There's not a world besides it.
[00:56:23] Speaker A: Actually, it's comedy. It's not that deep. Yeah. So, yeah.
[00:56:28] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:56:29] Speaker A: It just depends on the person.
Something happened.
[00:56:32] Speaker C: Welcome to New York.
[00:56:34] Speaker A: I know.
[00:56:35] Speaker C: So you have a 30 minute special with Amazon. It's very exciting. And then you have, you know, you're constantly doing stand up and you're. Are you touring too?
[00:56:46] Speaker A: Trying to, in the new year, do a little Bit of a mini tour, which would be great.
[00:56:49] Speaker C: Awesome. Yeah, that'll be great.
I'm curious what your relationship is like with social media and how recently you've been really trying to churn out clips and stuff like that. Because obviously it's, it's an essential part of the, the job at this point and it's an essential part of the business.
[00:57:06] Speaker A: Yeah, too recently I've just started.
I, for the longest time was such like a purist, whatever that means. And I was like, you just get good on stage and then things happen. And it really is maybe in, even in like the last two or three years the whole like paradigm has shifted and it's just like you just have to be a social media presence. There's no way around it, it. And so I've just in the last, honestly like two months have started really being consistent and have seen a little bit of growth with that and so I just got to keep that up. But yeah, it's just, there's no way around it. If you want to be a stand up or any kind of comedian. Like that's where the eyes are and that's how you just building an audience is how you get on the road and things like that. So yeah, I have a love hate relationship to it, but I've accepted that it is what you have to do.
[00:57:53] Speaker C: Yeah, it, I think we all have a love hate relationship with it. It's. It's definitely so tough.
[00:58:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:58:01] Speaker C: Do you have like a person who helps you with it or are you just like grinding and editing and like.
[00:58:06] Speaker A: Just editing and stuff? And that's also part of the struggle is like you have to watch so many clips and stuff.
[00:58:11] Speaker C: It adds hours to your day. Yeah.
[00:58:13] Speaker A: Yes. It's a whole thing. So yeah, it's a lot. But I'm also like, I do think it's good because I think in the long run what it allows you is it allows you more freedom over your career than has ever been been possible before. You just had to wait for the gatekeepers and hope that somebody was like, oh yeah, you're talented or whatever. And so I do think it is a lot of work up front but like once you kind of get it going, I think it's, it's better in the long run.
So we'll see.
[00:58:39] Speaker C: Yeah, totally. I. It, it's interesting. Are you seeing that specific clips are performing better than others? Like do you have any, you know, advice for comedians starting out of like, oh, this is the stuff that hits or you know, things that are closer to you Personally or that are personal but also universal. Like what is, what does that look like?
[00:59:01] Speaker A: My advice is, and I heard Kaylan Caleb here and talking about this on a podcast recently. Yeah, he's great. But he had described it, which I think is the best way, which is you have to feed the clip machine. So find out whatever you do that you enjoy, that feeds the clip machine and helps you gain a fan base voice and that's it. If it's front facing videos, awesome. If it's stand up, awesome. Whatever you can do that's not gonna burn you out and feels the most authentic and organic to you. And I think that is really, really true. If it's like I try to do the like high production whatever and it's just like I just don't have time and energy among the other things trying to do. And so I've started just doing like front facing and then some stand up clips. And that's been working a little bit. And yeah, so I'm like, you have to post. So whatever it is that you enjoy posting that like starts building a fan base. That's it. I think people just like really just bite off way more than they can chew and get super stressed out about it and they're like, I gotta do five sketches a day and then eight this and nine that.
Figure out if it's just Monday, Wednesday, Friday, then just post Monday, Wednesday, Friday. A stand up clip, a sketch, whatever, like whatever is going to get you to be consistent. That's the thing I advise comedians to do.
[01:00:15] Speaker C: That is such great advice because even in the podcast game, Luke and I talk about that. Just consistency.
You want to be posting every week and you want to just so people know it's like a comfort thing. People know that they're going to be there or whatever. And it's so finding that thing that allows you to like, okay, this is not like feeling like I'm like pulling up an anchor every time and having to drop it. It's like this is this thing that, that keeps me light and I actually enjoy so I can keep doing it.
[01:00:45] Speaker A: You know, that's exactly what I think. If you just go, okay, this is what I like to do. And I can do this once a week, then do it once a week. Because it's not going to help you out if you post every single day for three weeks and then never again for six months.
[01:00:59] Speaker C: Yep, yep.
[01:01:00] Speaker A: Honestly. And that's coming from experience because that's what I used to do. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna post every single day, and then two weeks later, you're burnt out and you're like, all right, I'm not gonna post for the next month. Like, like, if you just can do one thing a week, then do that one thing a week. Do it every single week at the same time. And, like, slowly but surely. Yeah, I think that's. That's a really good consistency is really the key.
[01:01:21] Speaker B: I have heard a fear in standup and social media. It's like posting pieces of someone's set and then, like, that joke gets stolen or something from, like, a bigger comedian. Is that ever, like, a fear? Like putting. Or you're kind of posting your stuff up?
[01:01:37] Speaker A: Not really. I mean, this is my take on, like, joke stealing. Things like that. There's so much similar train of thought that happens in comedy. And, like, unless it's, like, very specific to you, like a story about your grandmother dying and what she said to you on her deathbed.
I just have found that mostly when people can say somebody stole something or whatever, it's. It's usually a pretty general joke that's, like, not specific to you. And so I think a lot of times people just see something that's similar and they're like, they stole it or whatever. But, like, if you're a real comedian and most comedians who are at that higher level are. They're not like, scoping the Internet to steal. Half the fun of comedy is like writing your own jokes and your own.
Yeah, I don't know of anybody who's like, like, scanning, if anything, people are doing that to make sure they're not writing a joke that somebody else has done. But, yeah, I. I've rarely, if ever seen any proof of somebody being like, this is stolen from me. And then you see. And you're like, that's a pretty. You see how two people could come to that conclusion, right?
My experience, at least from what I see, totally.
[01:02:48] Speaker C: Well, it's also like, things are funny because the. The train of thought is relatable, you know, like, if you. If you really break it down. So, like, it's very likely that when I see something and I laugh, I'm like, oh, I'm laughing because I can see myself getting to that same conclusion, you know?
[01:03:03] Speaker A: Exactly. 100%.
[01:03:05] Speaker B: Yeah. I also feel like a joke, even if the three of us said the same joke, it would be very different, you know, like, cadence wise or like every. Like, standup is so.
[01:03:17] Speaker C: Meaning Vanessa would just be funnier, probably. Yeah, exactly.
[01:03:20] Speaker B: Obviously. 100. But it's so performed like a full body kind of performance sense, you know, like, everything about you is like, in the joke.
[01:03:28] Speaker A: Literally exactly 100.
[01:03:30] Speaker C: Yeah, totally. People think so, Vanessa, what is. What is the dream? What do you. Where do you see yourself, you know, really finding the. The most success? Are you writing a narrative show? Do you have your own HBO show? Are you, you know, pumping out specials every year? Are you hosting a, you know, but late night show? Like, what is, what's. What's the dream?
[01:03:55] Speaker A: Yes, to all of it.
[01:03:57] Speaker C: Perfect.
[01:03:58] Speaker A: Yeah. The dream overall is all of that. I want to be able to just make a living doing comedy and doing the thing that I love. I would love to really develop a super strong hour and have that on a streamer somewhere.
I would love to, like, write my own show and create that. And so I'm working towards all of those, like, one day at a time. But yeah, that would be really the goal.
And then we'll see. Whatever. I mean, the industry is always changing, so who knows what's going to be the version of late night in like 10 years?
[01:04:26] Speaker C: Totally.
[01:04:26] Speaker A: That would be the goal. So, yeah, all of the above.
[01:04:31] Speaker C: Cool. That's great.
Awesome. Well, really, thank you so much for coming on. We've covered so much from full screen to SNL to stand up and everything. And I feel like we've gotten so much great, like, tangible advice, which is always what we want to do on this podcast. And it. We didn't have to ask for it, it just kind of came out, which. Which we really, really appreciate too. It makes our job easy.
[01:04:59] Speaker A: Perfect. This was awesome. Genuinely, thank you guys for having me on. This was great.
[01:05:03] Speaker B: Thank you.
[01:05:03] Speaker C: Of course.
[01:05:04] Speaker B: So nice to meet you.
[01:05:05] Speaker C: Yeah, nice to meet you. Appreciate you hopping on.
[01:05:08] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Talk soon.
[01:05:09] Speaker C: All.
[01:05:16] Speaker B: Right.
Did you learn something? I'm like your mom. Did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging. Make sure you follow us at the 5050 Fest on Instagram and give us five stars because why not? Why not subscribe? Why not? You know, why not? Okay, bye.
[01:05:42] Speaker A: It.
