Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: We met with two sidekicks and the first one we met with, we were handing her her, like, release form. And she's like, it's like a standard release form, but she's kind of like going through it and like crossing stuff out and like writing stuff in the margins. And I was like, can I ask, like, what? And she was like, well, actually I'm a psychic part time, but I'm a lawyer full time, so I just want to. I just wanted, like, out of all the psychics in la, I found the one that's like, actually a full time lawyer.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: I'm Luke Steinfeld.
[00:00:30] Speaker C: And I'm Wyatt Sarkisian.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: We made the 5050 podcast to support you on your filmmaking journey.
[00:00:35] Speaker C: 50% business, 50% creative.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: Every Tuesday, a new how to.
[00:00:39] Speaker C: This week, we chat with writer director Luke Matthews. Not only is this episode a testament to guerrilla style filmmaking, but it's also the first of our three part interview series. Talking with the creative team behind Tricks Can Go Wrong. Luke's directorial debut now on Prime Video to rent. Enjoy the episode.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Luke. You got to get a private jet assistant to help you book all your private jet fights.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: There's a guy on TikTok that has like a hilarious account where he literally books private jets. And it's all these, what do you call it, like, trust fund kids that are just so mean to him.
Oh, yeah. And they're like asking him why he can't break the law and stuff. I forget his handle.
But it's, It's. Yeah, he's like, well, a jet needs fuel, so I can't, you know, take.
[00:01:32] Speaker C: You from like, yeah, we can't just keep going.
[00:01:36] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, we can't just keep going.
But, yeah, it's, it's.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: Wait, but these kids are like actual customers. They're not just messing with.
[00:01:42] Speaker A: These kids are like actual customers. Yeah. And they're like, hey, so me and my friends decided we want to go to Paris tonight. And he's like, all right, well, has your dad greenlit that? Because he told me to lock this account. And she's like, you don't need my dad's permission. And that, you know, it's just like, you know, and he's like, well, actually, he is the, you know, and he films.
[00:01:59] Speaker C: He films the, the phone conversations. Is that what he does? Yeah, I've seen, I've seen a girl like this who, who does like, she's like a travel person for all these really rich people.
[00:02:09] Speaker A: Yeah. So I'm sure it's super similar. It's just him at his desk with, like, on speakerphone just. Yeah.
[00:02:16] Speaker C: Sweating profusely.
[00:02:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's insane.
[00:02:19] Speaker B: Can you do that? Can you record people on the phone?
[00:02:23] Speaker A: That's okay. I thought about that too. But maybe if it's not their voice, Because I've thought about similarly, like, you know, Crank Yankers. Like, I don't think those people are signing release forms. I don't know if you guys remember that show Crank Yankers.
[00:02:37] Speaker C: Okay, so. So, Luke, meet Luke Wyatt.
[00:02:43] Speaker A: Yeah. What's up, guys? Thanks for having me.
[00:02:45] Speaker C: This is our first double name on the podcast. Very exciting.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: I don't think we'll ever have another Wyatt. Honestly, I don't know. I don't know any other way.
[00:02:54] Speaker A: I don't.
[00:02:54] Speaker C: I don't love the other. Wyatt's not a great name. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:03:00] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:03:01] Speaker C: So you know Arthur from.
Because you're. You're older than him, but you.
You showed your feature screening at usc.
[00:03:11] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So for my feature, Tricks Can Go Wrong, we did a screening at usc. I think it's like their summer series, or I forget what they call it exactly, but it was really cool. And for other alumni of usc, like, it was really cool if you have a feature, like, if you go the whole nine yards and you actually do this thing, like, there is a home for it.
So that was super cool. And, yeah, Arthur was one of the kids in the audience there, so I got to chat with him and then.
And just doing more promotion for it. He recommended you guys. And cut to.
[00:03:44] Speaker C: Yeah, I love that.
[00:03:45] Speaker B: What was the intent with that summer series? Was this. This summer, like, you just screened that?
[00:03:50] Speaker A: This was. No, it would have. I think it was last year, like, July 2024.
[00:03:57] Speaker B: So you've been. You've been promoting this film for a minute.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a long journey, man. I mean, that was like, I. This was something I wrote in Covid, and then I moved back in with my parents to save money.
So I was using, like, I'm sure you guys, I'm from Pasadena, so. So la, which is, yeah, super, super helpful.
So, yeah, I was able to write during quarantine and then was just kind of pocketing all these, like, stimulus checks I was getting, and then was able to raise half of it with that, and then the other half on Indiegogo. So I was. I could come out of COVID like, ready to go. So that was, like. That was huge. That was, like, my silver lining, for sure.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: How long was the script?
[00:04:44] Speaker A: The script was like.
I think it was, like, 80 pages in the final movies like 75 minutes, so pretty lean, but it deals with like real people off the street. So some portions were.
Were scripted and like, you know, dialogue for actors, while other portions were like, you know, my, my character Oliver like bombs a job interview. And that's like one paragraph but a five minute scene.
So it.
[00:05:13] Speaker C: Right, right. It's like half out, so it's okay. Cool. So it's kind of like a hybrid. Scripted, non. Scripted, sort of.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: Totally, totally. And that's like. That's how we shot it too. Sorry, that. That's how we shot it too, which was breaking it up where we did like, I think it was like a week of unscripted, like, man on the street stuff. And then we. And that was like, I say a week because it was like seven days, but spread across maybe like three or four months. Just one available, right? Yeah, yeah. And then we kind of broke for a little bit. I was able to rework the script based on the real footage that we got to kind of set up those scenes better and have it kind of like blend story wise. And then we went and just like knocked out the scripted portions in another week. So it was like 14 days total.
Wow.
[00:06:01] Speaker C: Amazing. Okay, so what's the timeline on this project? When did you first come up with it? What was the inspiration behind the idea? And walk us through what it's about and then we can go from there.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. It's about a aspiring magician.
So he's kind of like a failure, a failure to launch that's like super passionate about magic. But I describe him as a, like all of the passion but none of the talent.
Kind of like a, like an Ed Wood or like a Tommy Wiseau type character.
And the movie kind of catches him at this, this weird crossroads, which I'm sure you guys are like kind of experiencing too, which is, you know, for me, like, I'm still friends with my oldest buddies from high school and now that we're. We've been out of college for a minute, it's like even though we kind of grew up together and, and more or less like had the, the, you know, same. Same experiences, same upbringing, what have you. Like, it's weird that after college the trajectory just kind of like splits where I have some friends that are, you know, involved in tech and they're like CEOs of their own company and you know, they, they are doing very well. And I have other friends that are, you know, maybe should think about their like, substance abuse issues, which is not funny. It's not funny. But it's like, it's just like, it's. We're.
[00:07:22] Speaker C: So the spectrum is, is very wide.
[00:07:24] Speaker A: Yeah, the spectrum is insane. Like once you start hitting your late 20s, it's just like things split like crazy. So anyway, sorry, long story short, but it finds it's these two friends that find themselves. One is kind of pursuing, you know, trying to. To make something of his career, getting a serious girlfriend. And this other guy is kind of like my, my character is still living at home pursuing magician, inspiring his swearing magician, which is like so legit and real for him. But everyone around him is kind of like, you know, when are you gonna grow up?
[00:07:55] Speaker C: Totally. That's a very, very relatable thing, you know, and it's kind of, it's so funny with those, you know, those people you went to high school with. Because it's sometimes it's very unexpected of who becomes that like CEO or becomes that like guy who's killing it objectively, you know?
[00:08:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:14] Speaker C: And then there's the guy who's, you know, still figuring it out, you know. So it really, it really tacks onto an interesting moment in post college life.
[00:08:24] Speaker A: Totally, man, totally. And it like gets super real too because, you know, like we were talking earlier just like some friends like meet their person kind of earlier and like they're already engaged and getting. It's just like not only career, but just life stuff in general.
So being like a. You know, at the time I was, I was single, living at my parents house. It was like a very real, a real thing of like putting the paper. So.
[00:08:49] Speaker B: Totally. It sounds like you went into that script with the intent to shoot this yourself. Like it sounds like.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: Okay, yeah, yeah, totally.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: It's like you weren't writing something that you wanted to sell off and let some other person direct. You were like.
[00:09:06] Speaker C: Or just write to write, you know, like as a sample or whatever.
[00:09:09] Speaker A: Yeah, totally, totally. Yeah, that was, that was always my intention, which is like working backwards from budget where even if we had like a bajillion dollars, like what would be the best way to tell a story on like a micro budget? So something that we did is we just used like camcorders and we shot the whole thing as if this magician had set out to film like a showcase reel or like a talent reel.
[00:09:36] Speaker C: Yeah, you baked, you baked it into the script, basically.
[00:09:39] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So that when we're shooting on camcorders, it's as if this magician found a videographer off Craigslist and then he has all this ample footage that he's editing into this documentary.
[00:09:51] Speaker C: Really smart.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:52] Speaker C: You, you, you put the low budget ness as a, you know, a character in the story almost, you know, like totally. As a plot point.
[00:10:00] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah. There's like, there's a Roger Deakins quote that I'm paraphrasing, but it's like there's a difference between the best looking cinematography and the best cinematography for that story.
So that was kind of something I was always telling our crew.
[00:10:15] Speaker B: But did you ever think about making a proof of concept rather than that feature?
[00:10:22] Speaker A: Yeah. So I had a short and the initial idea for the short was kind of like the opening bit that we do in the beginning, which is he does a magic trick for a stranger, he gets it wrong and he just keeps asking them to pretend like he got the card trick right. Essentially. It's like, is this your card? And they're like, no. And you're like, oh, can you, can you pretend like it is? And then just being like, actually that reaction wasn't big enough. Can you like, I have a lot riding on this. Like, I've invested money. Can you like go bigger and bigger?
So that's like, that was the conceit of the, the short and then that's like the opening scene of, of the future as well.
And that was something I did when I was in college, just like with friends, like walking around campus. And it didn't really go anywhere, but it was definitely a nugget of something where I felt like I could kind of tell that story of what we were talking about of like this kind of. I was calling like the post college existential crisis with a fun enough character to kind of explore in this like, low budget nature.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: What was the, what was the crew like on that? And did you work with your USC buddies? Was this just you and a camera?
[00:11:33] Speaker A: The crew. The crew was pretty small. I had, I was lucky enough I found a producer, Josh Folin, who was like, he's done like a, a ton of features, but also a ton of independent features and like some micro budget stuff. Which is super helpful to have someone that's like, you know, just knows how to like spread your dollar. Which is. Yeah. And like has those connections and is like, hey, I know this guy who we've done other stuff. Like he's, you know, like. Or this location is like, they kind of know what, what the indie world is about. And like just, just having those connections was insanely helpful. So he was a huge help and he helped me find like the rest of our crew who are also Great. And then our composer was a friend of mine.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: I'm sorry to jump in. How did you.
[00:12:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I paid him. I forget like what the number was exactly, to be completely honest, but it.
[00:12:27] Speaker B: Was like, it was a cash. It was like a, it was like.
[00:12:30] Speaker A: Yeah, it was like a fee for like. I, I think we budgeted it in terms of like getting like. I can't remember exactly, but certainly each kind of like shoot like it. Like I talked about the way we kind of split production. Like, those were like a set of payments because they were. We treated it almost like two different film shoots.
And then he did get like a percentage as well for sure, which is, I think, I think you. Especially at like the micro budget level, I think you, you have to give the do the percentage thing because it's like in your, you know, when you're shooting these things, it's like it could be a Sundance smash, you know, no one knows. So it's like you kind of. You'd be a fool not to. Not that you're trying to pull one over on. On anyone or anything but you. You should be using that wishful thinking to your advantage, you know?
And if it. And if it does happen to be a smash and this guy like literally made the movie happen, like, he's totally entitled to, to that stuff. But you know, like I said, like, he's no, he's no fool either. Like, he's, he's done it a million times. It's one of those things where it'd be stupid for him not to.
Not to take the percentage. Just, you know, it's like you hear stories about the person that sold the Nike Swoosh for like five bucks or whatever.
[00:13:47] Speaker C: Right.
[00:13:47] Speaker A: Just because. Who knows, you know.
[00:13:48] Speaker C: So, yeah, this could, this could be the next Nike Swoosh.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Phil Knight, let me know, bro.
[00:13:55] Speaker C: Are you, Are you into magic? Like, why magician?
[00:13:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I was like my. It was funny. Like, the initial spawn of the idea was that kind of like initial card trick bit.
I mean, I, I love magic, but I'm not like, I, I couldn't go to a party with a deck of cards and like, do like. I, I literally don't know a single magic trick. Right, right. But I think my love for it came from kind of like practical effects, which I feel like are kind of magic tricks in their own right? And like forced perspective. And so that was definitely something I tried to infuse is like that kind of like, I guess almost vaudevillian like George Melia or Buster Keaton. Type, kind of like camera humor, like, magic trick, like, combined with, like, the. The, like, Nathan for you, or how to. A John Wilson like, street aesthetic. Right, right.
[00:14:47] Speaker C: It's so. Magicians are so fascinating to me because they are.
Magic is. Is a very, like, kid type of thing. Like, magicians are almost people who, like, never fully grew up in a way, or at least one part of them, you know? Like, I feel like if you're a magician at a party, like, people are like, whoa. But they're also kind of like a little feeling bad for you, you know, because you're. Because you're a magician, like, and it. With all respect in the world, because I. I think it's, you know, they're.
[00:15:18] Speaker A: They.
[00:15:19] Speaker C: They.
They just a part of them has kept this, like, sort of blind, you know, like, belief in, you know, otherworldly powers and things like that. If you're, like, a true magician, you know.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah. I would. I would imagine if you were going to a party and someone told you there was a magician there, offhand, you would just assume it's like a kid's birthday party. I feel like that's probably more common than the other way around. Unless it's, like, kind of like a kitschy thing.
I don't know.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: Honestly, that could be pretty cool. Honestly, like.
[00:15:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: I don't know. Like, even just saying that, like, I think there was definitely a time. I think that's with anything, though, where stuff is, like, kind of, like, strange and weird, and then you kind of mature and it's like, wait, that's so cool. Like, that'd be so fun to, like.
[00:16:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, you kind of, like, out of your.
[00:16:07] Speaker B: Your hair.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:11] Speaker B: You know.
[00:16:13] Speaker A: No, I mean. And honestly, like, here we are, like, three dudes talking about how cool magic is. But I. I truly believe, like, the sleight of hand stuff is, like. It's really cool. If you've ever watched tutorials of, like, them Break it down, it is like. Yeah, yeah, it's. It's like Danny Ocean stuff to me almost, you know, it's like. Yeah.
[00:16:30] Speaker C: Pretty cool.
[00:16:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:31] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:16:32] Speaker B: What made you think of. Because if you're. You're not a magician, you never grew. You weren't the guy at the party with the deck of cards. So, like, why did you think magician.
[00:16:41] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a. It's a good question.
I. I feel like with like. Like I said, like, how it lended itself to, like, those camera bits were, like. Was super fun for me. That was like, almost. My point of entry is, like, I Think in terms of, like, writer, performer, director, I'm. I'm most.
I think of myself most and foremost, like, as a director.
So being able to like, do something with an excuse of like these kind of these, like in camera perspective or these in camera, like, practical effects, that was like, what was most interesting for me. And then on the flip side, like, being able to play someone that doesn't know magic, it's like to truly not know magic is when you're. When you're there in the moment with these real people. It's like there is no part of me that in any world can pull this trick off.
So even if I wanted to back out of this, like, insanely uncomfortable social situation, it's like I. I couldn't even if I wanted to.
And I think like, that lack of knowing made.
Made the experience or the, hopefully the humor like, you know, shine even more.
[00:17:48] Speaker C: Yeah, totally.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: That makes sense.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: I don't know, is there one, like, real human interaction you had that stands out from the shoot?
[00:17:58] Speaker A: Yeah, there's probably, I would say, like two, which is. We met with a psychic who.
We met with two psychics. And the first one we met with, we were handing her, her like, release form and she's like, it's like a standard release form, but she's kind of like going through it and like crossing stuff out and like writing stuff in the margins.
[00:18:19] Speaker C: And I was like, that is so crazy. Yeah, the redlining psychic.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I was like, like, can I ask, like, what? And she was like, well, actually I'm a psychic part time, but I'm a lawyer full time. So I just.
I just wanted like, out of all the psychics in la, I found the one that's like, actually a full time lawyer.
She's like, yeah, I just want to make sure I'm like, covered and safe.
[00:18:41] Speaker C: That's like the most LA thing.
[00:18:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I was like, okay, well, like, she's like, what do you mean by this language here? And I'm like, I don't like, oh, no. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, so she.
That at that point I was like, all right, well, this will be an exercise. Luckily, we lined up to that day and then the next one we went to is the one that's in the movie.
And she was. It was actually super weird how quickly it became from like a tarot card reading to like something very, very, like just straight up religious, like, trust in your Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Which was.
[00:19:18] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:19:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Not something I had expected with. I mean, I knew it was spiritual. But she was like, like, anytime I would ask something or like for any sort of guidance, it was just immediately like prey on it or, you know, it was like she wasn't giving me.
So a lot of that stuff is. Is cut out. But the other one that.
[00:19:38] Speaker C: Oh, sorry, sorry.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: Was this.
[00:19:39] Speaker C: Where. Where in like the. If I might ask where.
[00:19:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, this was this. Oh, yeah, this is.
[00:19:44] Speaker C: What's the setup of the scene?
[00:19:46] Speaker A: So. Sorry, that's. That's a good question. This was like. While I was writing this, I was definitely looking at like the hero's journey. So I thought it would be funny if kind of like that meeting the mentor or the wizard or like the Obi Wan character was literally like a wizard, like a psychic.
So in a perfect world, I was kind of like, oh, maybe she could like, predict things and then we could go out and work those scenes into the script and like, her predictions would like, actually come true. But like I said, most of what she was kind of giving me was like, you know, get in touch with your.
With Jesus. I guess. Yeah, but which happens, I guess.
But yeah, so most of it was.
We definitely found stuff and if you see the movie, you'll. You'll see like, we kind of are. My. My co star, Eli Leonard, who's like so hilarious is. He's definitely like kind of. He's like a tried and true improviser and just like so smart in that way. But he's finding things in the moment, you know, like finding the game and stuff and, and building off that, which is probably became my favorite scene in the movie, which is he, like, he points out she's laying out all these tarot cards and just happenstance, there's a tarot card that says like the magician.
And he's like, whoa, does that. And you know, then like, there's the game and it just snowballs from there and she's like, I won't spoil it. And I, I would definitely can't do a good job explaining it. But yeah, in.
[00:21:17] Speaker C: In terms of finding that, you know, that game. Were there any?
Because we talked with this guy, Aviv Rubenstein, who for his first feature, he did a kind of similar thing in terms of he took a road trip and set it around his real life band, basically trying to make it and go on tour.
And some scenes were scripted, some were not. And he had a lot of moments where he realized that the unscripted scenes were informing the plot so heavily and there would be moments that informed the plot that he would end up rewriting things. Did that happen to you guys where there were real life situations that were like, oh, we gotta at least, like, call back to that and write that down, or things like that. Like, was it. Were there moments where you. Where the unscripted parts were really informing, like, the overall plot?
[00:22:11] Speaker A: Yeah, that was always the goal. But I wish I had kind of, like, tuned my ear to that even more so. I mean, on. I remember on the days, I was just, like, so adamant about, like, just getting what the scene was. I feel like on the next one, I'll definitely, like, open myself more to. To kind of, like, weaving that. That journey.
But I would say too, like, for the most part, my predictions were pretty good. Like, if the scene. There's one scene where he meets for, like, a job interview. And it's like, if your goal is to bomb the interview, that's pretty easy to do.
So, like, you know, so he's not. If the scene is supposed to end with him not getting the job, then, like, that's, you know, that. That's pretty. That's what's gonna happen.
But there were other things where, like, I tried, like, in. My initial plan was to go back to the sidekick later on, but after kind of, like spending time with her and I. I guess. Yeah. She was not about coming back for any amount of money. So.
Yeah. And then, like, that way you kind of. We had to rewrite the script to like, figure out what that scene would be if. If not her, then who? In a way that makes sense. Yeah.
[00:23:26] Speaker B: Yeah. What is the, like, in your head, if. If there is a character, like a psychic, where you're, like, knowing that you want to return to someone like that, or having kind of the largest role in a plot, like, why not just cast someone, dress them up and, like, dress up a closet or something or a room and make it look like. You know what I mean? Like, why. Why still rely on that?
[00:23:54] Speaker A: For me, I feel like that is like, that, you know, in terms of when they say, like, when you start your feature, like, make your favorite movie. But my favorite movies are like, you know, like, I. Again, like I said, like, these kind of George Mela, Buster Keaton, even, like, Michelle Gondry on one end, and then on the other end, kind of like a Borat or Nathan Fielder or How to with John Wilson. So I'm trying to, like, combine these two things, so it's probably much easier. But for me, it's to do, like, a actual actor in that role. But for me, it's so much more exciting to try and find Like a real person and kind of blend that line of, like, what's. What's real and what's not. And, you know, if. If it is, like, I just. I honestly feel that those scenes with the real people will just inherently be way better than anything with an actual actor, because the audience, I think, can kind of tell for the most part who's real and who's not.
So when they. Even when they just see, like, I remember in the theater, like, even when they. Hopefully this isn't, like, tooting my own horn, but when they just see, like, the exterior shot of, like, a psychic storefront, immediately, like, they're already chuckling because, like, they know that, like, totally.
[00:25:10] Speaker C: They're like, oh, God, what's gonna happen? Yeah, exactly.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:25:14] Speaker C: I think it's the power of improv, right? It's the power of giving yourself the freedom to just, like, discover things in the moment. And I think that's what you lose when you have someone who's playing a character and you're right. I think if you' doing a movie with both, the audience will quickly get really good at telling what's real and what's not real.
[00:25:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Especially when so much of the scripted is, like, kind of setting up those, like, comedy tentpole moments. Right there is like, just like that.
[00:25:42] Speaker C: The set pieces.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Where do you think that genre stands these days in terms of, like, the Nathan for you format? You mentioned Borat, like, those kind of hybrid realism comedy sort of things. Like what? Where do you think that stands?
[00:26:02] Speaker A: Dude, it's a good question. I mean, I've been thinking about this stuff a lot lately.
I. I say, you know, I cite Nathan Fielder as a. As a inspiration point, 100%. But I remember what we were filming this during as season one of the rehearsal was coming out, and so much of. Of season two is like. And maybe this is specific to just the rehearsal, but I was like, okay, there's no way we're ever going to have that budget of, like, what he's playing with. And some of the humor in that show is. Is the budget.
But even on the flip side, I remember just watching, like, tons of behind the scenes of, like, Bad Grandpa and, like, all the Jeff Tremaine stuff. And he's like. I think the way he does it is, like he's in a, you know, in like, a van somewhere watching a couple different monitors via the hidden cameras and stuff. And they like to get these bits they're shooting. I think they might even spend a couple days just to get like one, one of these tent pole moments. And for us, that's like, you know, we can't afford to keep. To keep shooting until we get something right. So we have like a, you know, backup plans. But, you know, we have this one day or this half a day to get this, this real person right.
And then we're just forced to do it on our own. So I think it's funny, like, going into it, I was almost like, oh, yeah, we'll do it on the street and it'll be low budget, like no permits.
This stuff requires a small crew anyway, you know, like, we'll have to be loose on our feet. And then as I started researching this stuff more, it was kind of like, okay, these guys have like, you know, I'm sure their budgets are much lower, but their production days are probably longer. So someone could prove me wrong, honestly.
But sorry, I'm forgetting your initial question, but it was kind of like forging our own way of figuring out how to do that low budget and then just like a certain leap of faith commitment to like, the footage we have. And the good thing is, is it's fairly easy to find some like two minute nuggets out of like an hour long shoot, so. Or hour long, you know, shooting a scene.
[00:28:08] Speaker C: Absolutely. My initial question was just about, you know, where you think the format stands these days.
[00:28:15] Speaker A: And instead I ranted for 10 minutes.
[00:28:17] Speaker C: No, no, but it all was applicable, I think, because there's a lot of. I mean, I was thinking about this and there's a lot of.
Obviously with like YouTube and all this stuff, there's a lot of stuff that, you know, ties into that, but I think sometimes it's missing like a story with heart to it, you know, and, and character and crafting specific, you know, things that inform the plot and really focusing on structure. So is there, is there anything doing. I mean, besides the rehearsal, which is obviously like a very controlled situation. You know, Nathan, for you was kind of shot on, you know, location. And there's, you know, it seemed like it was smaller budget, you know, working with real people. And the rehearsal is that still. But he had, he's working out of a giant set in Burbank or whatever. You know, like he is, he's created.
[00:29:13] Speaker A: He's.
[00:29:13] Speaker C: That's the whole theory of the show. Like, can you create and mimic real life? You know, so I'm curious where, like, is there, is there anything else these days that's kind of doing that and doing what you want to do?
[00:29:25] Speaker A: It's a good question. Yeah, I Feel like the one that comes to mind. I'm totally blanking on this director's name, but he made this movie called the Dirties that was like a slam dance.
Came out of slam dance, I want to say, maybe like 2010sish or something.
And most recently, he did the.
The BlackBerry movie.
But he got it kind of like, is one that is certainly, like, stealing locations and kind of like just like he's. If he's shooting at a park, let's say, and someone walks in the background, like, that's now a part of the scene. So he's not necessarily, like, kind of in this, like, Sasha Barry Cohen way, like, meeting with a, you know, Taekwondo instructor, whatever it is. But he is like, totally. Like, when he's out in the environment, it's like, okay, this is. Everything is within our world, basically.
[00:30:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:19] Speaker A: Um, so that's pretty cool. That's definitely a first one that comes to mind. But certainly in terms of this, like, man on the street stuff in. In terms of, like, people working independently, the only stuff that comes to mind for me is really like, you know, people on TikTok that are, like, just walking up to people in the mall and just saying, like, hey, is this your girlfriend? Like, trade phones and like, who's this that messaged you on Snapchat? Or like, you know, like.
Yeah. And like, trying to, like, reveal, like. Yeah. Your relationship intimacies or something.
[00:30:52] Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. Just like, random interviewers in New York City who will come up to a couple and be. Yeah, I just. I literally watched this video yesterday of, like, it was crazy. Like, it. This. This guy just, like, dug himself into a crazy hole in front of his girlfriend of, like, this guy. He asked him something like, you know, would you, like, if she let you. Would you, like, you know, get with another person? And. And he was just like, oh, yeah, definitely. Like. And. And she was like, right there. She's like, what? Like, why are you talking about this?
[00:31:24] Speaker A: And then he asked me. Yeah.
[00:31:26] Speaker C: And then he asks her the same question. She's like, no, I wouldn't. And then they walk away and I'm like, that is going to be a fight.
[00:31:32] Speaker A: Like, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, that may be the last moment they were ever together, but.
[00:31:37] Speaker C: But there. There's a lot of that. And there's. It's kind of a weird point we're at in the culture where that's just like a. A common thing to do. And, like, it's this, like, making people uncomfortable, you know?
[00:31:51] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it. I.
[00:31:52] Speaker C: Maybe it. Maybe it's gone too far to some extent of, like, the. It started with the pranks and everything. And, like, there. There's a fine line, you know?
[00:32:00] Speaker A: Oh, for sure, for sure. And I mean, I. I also see videos of people taking it, like, way too far, where it's just like, it's not even in good fun. It's just, like, straight up bullying. Or like, there's. They're just like, right. You know, like, making fun of their physical appearance or something, and you're like, this isn't fun for anyone. Like, I would hope at the end of the day, when these people see. See my movie, they at least are like, oh, okay. Like that. You know, like things tie together. Or like, oh, okay. Like, that is fun. Or like, dude, I was like, in that moment, I really, like, could not believe what. What was happening. You know, it's like almost like a wave of relief, hopefully.
And not too much, like, just straight up berating someone.
[00:32:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:32:44] Speaker A: Were you.
[00:32:45] Speaker B: Were you trying to. Because of course you're directing, you're starring. Like, you're doing everything in this and you're thinking about permits maybe, or it's improv and you're. Nothing scripted and there's a lot going on in your mind. Were you able to think about that real person in the frame and being like, let's make sure they're good kind.
[00:33:07] Speaker A: Of thing, like, in terms of, like, emotionally or. Or, like, getting coverage?
[00:33:13] Speaker B: I'd say more on the emotional side.
[00:33:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I think, like, I definitely.
[00:33:19] Speaker C: Because they are. They are a real person, you know, and. And that hearkens back to, like, the uncomfortable thing, like, how do you. How do you balance making the audience, like, love what they're watching, but also making sure that, like, everybody is, like, not so mad at you after shooting it, you know?
[00:33:35] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. I mean, there were definitely, like, when we were shooting in downtown la, there were people that would just kind of come up to us and, like, ask what was going on. And we're like, okay, cool, here's like, another mark. And we can kind of, like, do our bit, but very quickly. You can kind of realize if this person is maybe like, not mentally there or, you know, maybe just, like, not in the right place. And we would kind of like, okay, like, all right, then we can wind the bit down and just kind of like, get them, you know, send them on their way. And obviously, like, we didn't use any of any of those people.
[00:34:10] Speaker B: Were you having them sign before or after?
[00:34:14] Speaker A: It depends. I think we were kind of like, hey, if we can, we should get them to sign before. But most of it was after, I.
[00:34:22] Speaker B: Think just in the way success rate was it. Were they all pretty okay with doing it after?
[00:34:27] Speaker A: Honestly?
Honestly, I think like, it's so funny because everyone, like you said, like, everyone is so familiar with this kind of like person just interviewing them on the street.
[00:34:37] Speaker C: Totally.
[00:34:38] Speaker A: A lot of people afterwards were like, yeah, no problem. Like, where, where is this? Like, where can I see this?
Like, where is this going to live? Um, yeah. And I was kind of surprised that they was like. Which was cool. That was like reassuring for me too in that they wanted to see how it came out and whatnot. Even though we just asked them to lie on camera, they were like, yeah, yeah, like where? Like, what are you gonna do with this? Where can I see it? You know?
[00:35:02] Speaker B: So would camera cut and you'd go, hi. I'm like, you take off the top hat and you're like, hey, I'm Luke. Like, I'm not an actual magician. Like, or would stay in character.
[00:35:12] Speaker A: For the most part, I stayed in character only because sometimes these other marks would like, you know, like you're, you're in the street, so people are walking by all the time. So it would like one person would leave and like another person would come in. So yeah, it was, it was, it was funny. I would like ask the crew to call us like the actors by their character names and stuff and they kind of got confused and would just be like, hey, like, tap me on the shoulder or something. Yeah, I don't want to ruin this for you, but know, can you turn this way? Cuz sound is better or whatever.
[00:35:44] Speaker C: Totally, totally.
[00:35:46] Speaker B: How did you keep the, the crew excited and like passionate? Because I feel like shoots like this again where director is acting. I don't know if you had a first or how big the crew really was, but like, if you're locked in on the scene and especially if it's improv and the crew might not know exactly where a scene ends or begins or what the intent of the the day is. Like, how were you again being a director? Like, how are you managing all of this and how are you keeping the crew passionate about the vision?
[00:36:22] Speaker A: Dude, it's. It's a great question. The crew was, it would be most days was myself, my co star Eli, and then our DP Colin, and then sound guy laundry. And then like, I think we had a couple PAs that switched in and out. But mostly it was this guy Matt.
[00:36:37] Speaker C: Who was the producer on set at all.
[00:36:40] Speaker A: He was, I think he was actually on another Shoot at this point.
Okay. And I know he, he really wanted to be there, but honestly I think like the just the less people is, is all the better because the more.
[00:36:54] Speaker C: Especially with that format, you don't want people to be overwhelmed with the.
[00:36:57] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. And the more like un legit we seem, I think the more willing people are to, to involve themselves. But it was certainly like, you know, you're kind of like when you get there, like you're on the street and there's no like, okay, what's our first shot? Like now we're here just waiting for real people to like walk by. And depending on like even on the hour or day that you go, it's like people are gonna be either rushing to work or no one's gonna be there because they're all in their office. Like, you know, so it was kind of like a waiting game and I feel like clock was ticking and I'm, you know, a first time director and some of this crew for the most part I'm meeting for the first time as well. So there was certainly like what is this? Like, you know, hopefully the check clears basically.
But as time went on I think they, I think they kind of got the idea of like more and more like what, what this thing was certainly after like the first, first couple days.
But I feel like, and you know, everyone was super nice, but I feel like when they all saw the, our movie at the premiere, there were some people where I feel like, oh, that's what it was. You know, like they didn't really get it until it all like totally came together.
[00:38:06] Speaker C: It all gels together.
[00:38:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And this, so much of this stuff is kind of finding it in the edit when you're shooting for two hours and using two minutes.
So that. Yeah. And like I, I don't, you know, I, I would have been the same exact way. So. Yeah, you, you really don't know until you, you put it together.
Because a different editor with the same footage could have made something that's just unrecognizable, you know.
[00:38:30] Speaker B: So what was the edit like? I mean, with improv and pulling two minutes out of two hours, I can't imagine that's a short process.
[00:38:39] Speaker A: Yeah, it was. I worked like pretty closely with my editor Jack, who was also amazing. And he.
[00:38:45] Speaker B: Is that a friend? Is that a past collaborator?
[00:38:48] Speaker A: Yeah. So he was a guy that we, my producer found as well and he, he made this movie called Big House which is like a total, like it's one of the best no budget movies I've ever seen. He. And it's like. And it's all improv driven, so just.
Yeah, he. He's amazing. I would expect big things from him, but if you haven't seen Big House, it's really, really good.
But he shot that in a way that was. I think he had, like, three cameras going at once. And it kind of follows multiple characters, so they're all acting out their scenes in tandem, but separately in. In real time. And he's like. He cut those together.
So I saw that movie, and I was like, okay, this is someone that knows how to take improv and kind of, you know, structure it together.
[00:39:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:39:31] Speaker A: And then it was me kind of like, I would watch all the footage and kind of just on paper, like, edit it on paper in terms of, like, time codes or lines that they said, like, hey, when they say this line, we should cut to this bit. And some of it was kind of like jigsaw and like, hey, I know this actually happened, like, an hour later. But if we take this line, like, these two beats are pretty similar. I think we could make them one beat. So then you have now it's, like, starting to take shape. And even though you're taking Something that happened 20 minutes apart, it's kind of like this one fluid, like, scene.
[00:40:08] Speaker C: And when you're on set, are you. Is someone, like, noting timestamps of when there was, like, a great moment, or are you just re watching all the footage and. And finding.
[00:40:15] Speaker A: Just. Just rewatching all the footage? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So, like, you can kind of remember, like, if something crazy happens.
[00:40:22] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:40:23] Speaker A: Like I said, some of these moments are few and far between, so you can kind of. You can be like, where is that, like, nugget?
But for the most part, it's just like. Yeah. Rewatching it in entirety.
Absolutely.
[00:40:35] Speaker B: The cut you showed at the summer series at USC a year ago, is that the same cut that you're sending out today?
[00:40:43] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that one was, like, the final one, I think that was still during our festival run. And then now we've been able to get it on Amazon and Apple tv.
[00:40:55] Speaker B: So if you.
[00:40:56] Speaker A: If you're. Hey, if you're listening out there, go.
[00:40:58] Speaker C: We'll definitely link it. We'll definitely link it in the show notes.
I'm definitely gonna watch it. I'm so excited.
[00:41:06] Speaker B: With comedy, like, you hear stories of the appetites of the world, and they're just testing audiences like it's nothing. Just to make sure every joke is hitting and just making kind of the Funniest product possible.
Were you adapting or editing that cut at all after live audience reactions or screening it?
[00:41:29] Speaker A: For sure, yeah, we, we had, we screened like a early rough cut at this place called Whammy in Silver Lake, which is really cool. It's like a VHS revival store. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they have a theater in there that sits like 40 or 50 people.
So we were able to.
I was able to pack it in there. And I got a really good piece of advice from. I worked as an assistant to this guy, Peter Siegel, who's also a big, big USC guy, but he did like Tommy Boy and 50 First Dates and you know, Get Smart. So like big studio comedies. And he was like, you're gonna need to like, you need to test this in front of an audience. And even more so like show it to people that don't like you.
Show it to people that want it to fail, which is, is really hard to fill a, like a 40 seat theater with people that don't like you.
[00:42:22] Speaker C: 40 of your enemies and put them in a theater.
[00:42:25] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Find 40 of your enemies to do you a favor.
So. No, but if you were at, if you're listening to this and you're at this screening, I deeply love you and I do not consider you an enemy at all.
But I, I was trying to find good friends that were just very.
[00:42:40] Speaker C: Maybe not into that type of comedy or, or something.
[00:42:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Maybe it's not their bag or like they wouldn't be afraid to like, really tell me what it was.
Yeah. And then we did like scorecards and off of that we kind of. It was like, I think there's even like templates on online. But even working with this, this director, Peter Siegel, I was able to, to kind of remember like, or, you know, if like there's a scene I was nervous about. Like, how did you feel about this in the movie? You know, so off of those it ended up really well.
[00:43:07] Speaker B: You would, you would write down a specific scene on that scorecard and say, how do you feel about this moment? Like with the psychic or something?
[00:43:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think we did something like that. Or like even. I'm trying to remember exactly like how the scenes I was more nervous about I think was like overall kind of like story, plot, like does it emotionally makes sense that so and so would have left after that, you know, or like just, just what do you call it? Like certain motivations for characters and whatnot. And if those scenes are working.
[00:43:45] Speaker B: To get those 40 people there. Were you emailing, Were you putting up Posters in Silver Lake. Like, what were you doing to get those 40 people?
[00:43:53] Speaker A: Yeah, this, this was.
I think I was like putting out flyers, like just on my insta story and then reaching out to people directly. That was definitely like a huge lesson I learned in terms of even in the fundraising, like, phase, is that if you just put something kind of like into the void, it's so easy for people to forget about it. But if you reach out to them directly and maybe even make it somewhat, definitely they're kind of on the hook. Like, like, if they ghost you from there, like, that's a clear answer. But they're not gonna. Most likely they're not gonna. They're not gonna be as willing to ignore it.
[00:44:29] Speaker C: And I've found just for. I fundraise for the first time for a web series that's happening that's going out right now. And every single coffee, every single drinks, I would just. I'm not getting that coffee or drinks to mention it, but I am mentioning it when I'm there.
[00:44:45] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:44:46] Speaker C: Because those in person interactions are really, really important. I found that just the in person you mentioned, and they're like, oh my God, so fun. And then you follow up with the text after. Like, there's just. I found that that was like the most effective way of doing it.
[00:45:00] Speaker A: Totally, totally. Yeah, yeah, no, it's. You have to. You have to get like, shameless about it. It's. It's kind of weird to. It's super uncomfortable at first, but yeah, you have to just like, you know, how bad do you want it, basically?
[00:45:16] Speaker B: Was it. Was it free for, like, free entry?
[00:45:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it was free entry. Yeah. So the, the venue itself wasn't too expensive.
It was something I think we were able to like, work out of the budget, which is nice. And then, yeah, just like, you know, comedy, obviously you're going to want to show it with an audience.
[00:45:36] Speaker C: Of course.
[00:45:36] Speaker B: And how were you? How was that for you? Like, were you super nervous? Were you super excited? Were you horrified? What were you feeling going into that?
[00:45:46] Speaker A: All. All of the above, man.
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:45:49] Speaker C: So vulnerable. Comedy is so vulnerable, especially when you're performing in it, you know?
[00:45:54] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was no way.
[00:45:57] Speaker C: It's all you. There's no. Yeah, it's not like, oh, I produced this, but it kind of went awry on set. So I'm not really.
[00:46:05] Speaker A: Performing.
[00:46:06] Speaker C: This is me directing. I'm the one at the screening. Like, there's no running away from it, you know?
[00:46:11] Speaker A: Totally, dude. Totally. Yeah, no 100. Yeah, that's that's nail on the head for sure.
It was definitely a relief, like, when the laughs start. Start coming in, I was like, I can at least, like, relax a little bit. Because if, like, something is supposed to be funny and it's just, like, doesn't read at all, there's also just so much of, like, telling a story. Like, does it even make sense? You know, like, sometimes, like, when you're even. Even when you're like, you're first starting out with your short films and, like, you're cutting stuff together, you're like, okay, this is a story I'm trying to tell. But, like, does this even, like, is this even digestible, you know?
[00:46:47] Speaker C: Yeah. Does it make sense? That's.
[00:46:49] Speaker A: Does it even make sense? Like, is anyone going to even understand this, let alone laugh at it?
[00:46:54] Speaker C: It makes sense on the paper, and then it makes sense when you're shooting it, and then the edit is like, wait, none of it makes sense. So how do I. How do I put something together that makes sense? Or when you screen it and you're like, okay, that joke went over everybody's head, and I thought that joke was going to land, so. And then there's another joke that. Or a small thing, a situational thing that people are hysterically laughing, and you're like, that wasn't even supposed to be funny.
[00:47:22] Speaker A: No. 100%. You're like, I'll take it, man. I'm like freaking Oliver Twist begging for anything. Yeah, so I'll take it. But, yeah, no. So, like, some of the stuff that was the most fun to write was, like, cut. Because, like, no one, like, did not register with anyone. And that was something, too. I was kind of nervous about is like, I kind of knew that these real people moments would just inherently, like, hopefully be the most fun parts of the film. So the comedy that's, like, more written and scripted, like, would that ever. So when those moments in that screening got laughs, I was like, okay, cool.
[00:47:57] Speaker C: Like, totally.
[00:47:58] Speaker A: Now this is both working and jiving. And it's like, one thing when that felt. That felt nice.
[00:48:03] Speaker C: That's great. Did you. Do you think your improv skills just improved so much after filming it?
[00:48:08] Speaker A: I think. I think so. It was. It's nice to have the safety net of, like, again shooting for an hour and taking two minutes, hopefully, in that way. Anyone?
[00:48:17] Speaker C: It's a lot of time when you're allowed to be bad, you know, it's like, yeah, totally.
[00:48:21] Speaker A: So you're just. You're just cutting the best parts and you can kind of, like, it was weird. Like, live in the moment.
I remember I would kind of find, like, some excuses to do redos. Like, for example, like during the tarot card reading, if she pulled a card and started talking about it, and I was like, oh, maybe I could. You know, you're just, like, thinking in real time. I would go back and be like, oh, what does this card mean again? And then she would say. And then that would kind of set me up to say the thing I thought I should have said before. So it's like, take two, but in real time.
[00:48:51] Speaker C: Wow, that's such a skill. I mean, you are. You're in character, trying to listen, but also thinking of, okay, what's my next joke going to be, you know, or how do I get this joke through again or make it more clear or whatever. It's like workshopping in real time, you know?
[00:49:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And I mean, a true improviser would probably be like, you should just be listening even more. I feel like that's something I should be working on, but I'm kind of neurotic in that way. I'm trying to get out of my own head.
[00:49:17] Speaker C: But it is weirdly. Yeah, Yeah.
I think there's a lot of improvisers who wouldn't admit it, but they are thinking of the next joke, you know, Like, I think that's part of it.
[00:49:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, hey, man, I'm an honest improviser, so, yeah, what can I say, man?
[00:49:34] Speaker B: Love that.
[00:49:36] Speaker C: So I have a few sort of quick hits. First is what are some crafty ways to really stretch your dollar in a budget? Because I'm curious, it seems like you guys had a micro budget for this. You're shooting 80 minutes or 80 pages or whatever it was.
What are. What are some, like, big lessons you learned about crafty ways to stretch the dollar?
[00:50:00] Speaker A: For sure. I would say the biggest one is just, like, asking. Asking for favors. I was always kind of surprised how, like, for. For me, at least, and I'm sure it's the same for you guys, is like, anyone that has ever known me or even spent, like, 10 minutes with me knows that my passion in life is, like, movies and comedy.
So when I went to ask, like, friends or even, like, you know, my parents, co workers, like, favors of, like, locations or. Or whatever, it would be, like, things like that. That. That we would need for free. I was kind of, like, really touched by their willingness to just open these things to us so that, like, I would, you know, like, kind of same thing in the fundraising phrases. Just like, don't be afraid to, like, shoot your shot.
[00:50:52] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:50:52] Speaker A: Because, like, what do you. What do you have to lose? Like, if not this, then you'll. You'll get it some other way.
[00:50:57] Speaker C: Yeah. And then in terms of the festival circuit, how did you guys navigate that? Were you working with your producer and, you know, figuring it out with him or how did you navigate that?
[00:51:09] Speaker A: Yeah, we definitely. I mean, there's like, so many different ways to go about it, but we kind of, like, shot our shot with, like, the biggest festivals, you know, like the Sundance slam dance, Telluride, whatever.
And then we started kind of working our way towards, like, other smaller festivals that we thought was maybe more catered to, like the, the kind of movie that we had. I've heard of other people kind of doing it the other way, where it's like, they build up a reputation through these small festivals so that by the time they hit these bigger ones, they have a little bit of credibility.
It's. It's weird. It's like, I, I think both, like, approaches are valid, but it's, you know, it's a crapshoot at the end of the day.
It was certainly my like, first pass at all this, you know, festival navigating, which felt a lot like college apps. You know, it's kind of like there's a lot of people that will just be like, oh, it's super political and blah, blah, blah, but hopefully if you have a good movie, it rises to the top.
[00:52:08] Speaker B: Did anything come from the festival circuit or was it. Did you find success elsewhere? And where was that?
[00:52:15] Speaker A: Not as much as I would have liked, honestly.
It was tough. I mean, certainly. And this was like something we faced in distribution too. It's like a no budget black and white comedy with no stars is like a tough sell. Like, there were some people that were just like, and this is, you know, more distribution. But we're like, oh, could you, like, give us a version in color or, you know, and it's like, yeah, like, you know, that's not like, that's not like the vision I had in mind. But I get what they're saying is like, for, for these people just like firing something up on a streamer. It's not the most. The sexiest, you know, whatever. Yeah, but I, I, you know, I wouldn't change the movie for, for anything. So it's, it's like, I, I think, like, going into it, you just have to know that that. Is that that risk or that balance that you're towing for sure. Yeah.
[00:53:05] Speaker B: I have a. I Have a question written down here. Pretty simple. It just says, how does it feel? And then under that said, you made a movie, you know?
[00:53:14] Speaker A: It feels good, man. It feels. Yeah. Look at me, man. Chilling and San Luis Obispo reaching it in. But yes. No, no, I mean, yeah, like, that was.
It was. You know, it's a life dream. It's. It's really cool. It feels really cool to have to. To have done it. And it was like the most rewarding, fulfilling, like, experience I've ever. If anyone is even remotely thinking about it, like, you. You 100 can't do it. Like, anyone can make a movie.
If that, if that, if it's something you're interested in, like, for sure, just. Just go do it, you know?
[00:53:51] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:53:51] Speaker B: Would you do it this style? Would you, I guess with the improv and the real people? Would you do that again for the next one? Are you thinking about the next one?
[00:54:00] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. Writing the next one now and. And again it would still be like, real people and improv. And I think the thing. The biggest lesson is I'm thinking much more about marketing as I'm writing this one than I did before.
So much of it was just like, there was so much to learn of just like, okay, where do you even get a crew? Like, how do. If we're shooting on the street? Like, what is legal? Like, how do. How do release forms work? You know, what does that mean for. Of course, for distribution. And there were just so many things to just kind of like, wrap your head around where at the end of the day, I was just happy I made something that even made. Made sense.
But in this next one, thinking a lot about, like, okay, like, truly knowing the power of having a star attached and maybe writing a part that we could shoot in a day where a name talent could, you know, what. Whatever it is, even like a C list actor could be there. All those classic things of like, we'll put them on the poster, shoot them out in a day, then their name is on it. It's a little bit more credibility.
Like, yeah, just all that kind of, like, marketing mumbo jumbo is certainly more at the forefront on the page in the. In the conception.
Is that.
[00:55:15] Speaker B: Was that kind of thought from a producer or is that just from you going through it with this last one and in the distribution?
[00:55:23] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. I think that's definitely more just from. Just for me and like, the kind of, like, success rate we've had so far.
Yeah, I think it's like.
And maybe I always say this, but like maybe it's just because I'm in the, I'm in like the marketing phase with this one so far or right now that, that it's like more heavy on the brain. But yeah, yeah, it's also weird. There's like, and I know you're kind of talking about this earlier, but it doesn't really seem like there's a solid place for comedies at the moment. Like so much of the festival circuit. Like there was countless festivals I found that were just horror based or, or something more genre even like thriller or what sci fi, whatever it is.
But the. There was really only like. And maybe I'm just bad at it, but there were really only like one or two decent like true comedy festivals I found. And there wasn't, there wasn't a lot, like, there just wasn't a lot of opportunity for it, which was kind of interesting.
So. Yeah, but you know, take it with a grain of salt.
But. And we were kind of touching on this earlier but like it seems so much of the way our culture now gets comedy is through like very small clips. Very small clips or like sketches. Like even me, as an avid comedy fan or fan of SNL, I'm only watching SNL via clips on YouTube.
So so much of the genre has kind of moved to that. Which is exciting in that like I will get my comedy from just whatever is funny. But. But it's not in these, you know, hour to two hour stories anymore. It's in these, you know, so it's like there's more opportunity but not in the way that I like to create it. I guess it's weird. I don't know how to explain it.
[00:57:15] Speaker C: It's really hard. I think it's because it's really hard to make a comedy with, with tons of heart and story that can bring you in and keep you there, you know, instead of just I, I work in development and, and working with writers to find those like emotional moments within a comedy and you know, to understand like what a true ensemble comedy is and not just like a vehicle for jokes. You know, there are great joke writers out there, but to do both is really, really hard.
[00:57:45] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah.
[00:57:46] Speaker B: Is this next one a straight up comedy?
[00:57:48] Speaker A: This next one is comedy too. Yeah, it's comedy. Like sci fi. There's like definitely it's like some more sci fi elements. So again, that's, that's me thinking of more of like just where, like where it could land in terms of festivals or, or just like hitting a bigger audience. More of like genre hybrids to kind of like, reach. Reach more people.
[00:58:10] Speaker C: Nice. Yeah.
I'm curious, like, day to day, what you're doing, and I know you're like, you know, you're directing smaller things and, you know, you're working other jobs and I'm curious what, what that looks like. You know, as you're obviously doing marketing for this movie and thinking of the next one. Like, what is, what does that look like?
[00:58:29] Speaker A: For sure, for sure. Yeah. That is like, for me right now, I was working as a coordinator at a, like a film studio.
I left, I left that job to kind of like pursue more like, more director, like passion projects. But it's kind of weird. It's like when I, when I'm in this world as like not like a straight 9 to 5 thing, the freelance is tough. So, like, honestly, like, yeah, just applying for like, sometimes a music video gig will come up and I'll, I'll be able to do that and that's like, awesome.
[00:59:05] Speaker C: But in between, I want, I want to link some of your music video stuff in the show notes. Oh, yeah, because they're, they're brilliant. I mean, I've seen a couple of them and they're so, so, so good. Like, you are such a talented visual director too, which you wouldn't necessarily think from, you know, you're such a. With the improv and all, all the dialogue driven stuff and comedy and things like that. But it's really impressive.
[00:59:29] Speaker A: Thanks, man. I appreciate that. That's awesome.
I have to tell my mom you said that she'll feel like we'll have.
[00:59:37] Speaker C: Her on the podcast next.
[00:59:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she'd love that, man. She'd love that.
But yeah, no, and like, full disclosure, just like, looking, you know, applying to Trader Joe's or like, a friend of mine will hit me up and be like, hey, can you PA for a day on this? And you know, those, those day gigs are always nice, but trying to like, stay busy.
But yeah, it's. It's tough, man. It's like definitely towards the end of the month when rent is due, it's like, okay, this is the path I chose, you know, Absolutely. Don't forget that.
[01:00:05] Speaker C: It's a very.
I mean, I think one of the goals in this podcast is to, like, you know, to ruminate on that difficulty and to understand, you know, how people can navigate that sort of thing because it is so tough out there to find a stable job in entertainment. So it's a really important thing to, you know, be honest about that and understand, you know, how each person navigates it differently.
[01:00:32] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. No, I appreciate you guys asking it too because it's something like certainly out of film school.
I never, like, you never really thought like, how does this, how do you actually live doing this? You know, because sometimes you're just like, oh, well, like I'll. Like a studio will love the script I wrote and I'll James Cameron and it'll be great. But like to really kind of like, you know, sustain your, your, you know, like a life doing this stuff is like different. And no one, like really. Yeah, no one really ever talks about that. So I feel like, yeah, it's. It's important for people to know that success isn't just like, you know, making a movie that makes a million dollars. Like you can, there's.
You can, you know, do both, essentially.
I hope that makes sense. I didn't really articulate that very well.
[01:01:24] Speaker B: Wyatt and I are both like a couple years out of school now and we're both in la and it's so interesting to see kind of this time of year when leases are up and people are moving, they leave. They. Yeah, different industry.
And there were very. There were a couple, one or two guest speakers that came to USC that really stuck with me that mentioned this industry as being a game of attrition.
And like, at a certain point you're gonna look around and like, there aren't gonna be that many people. Like the. Those. That massive group you started with is not gonna be the same group.
[01:02:08] Speaker C: And it's always been like that from what I understand.
[01:02:11] Speaker B: But it's so I wanted to. Because I've been thinking, I feel like every September I like think about it where it's like, whoa, so many of my friends are leaving recalculate. Or quitting agency jobs or quitting directing and freelance is too much and it's insane. And I'm moving back to Texas.
[01:02:29] Speaker A: It's crazy. And I've got. I've had friends that have gotten like so close to like, have done the assistant thing for like seven years or whatever for like a well known director or producer.
And like, they're just on the precipice of being like, you know, that, that junior exec or exec at that company, that production studio, and they're just like, nah. And like, I, I'm too burnt out, like, not for me anymore. And it's like totally fair. But it's like, dang, dude. You know, it's. It's a, it's a marathon for sure.
[01:03:00] Speaker C: It really is a marathon. And you have to like, I Personally have to, like, consciously tell myself that, because I always convince myself that I'm behind or I'm not doing this well enough or whatever. So it's. It's definitely like a real feeling that. That we all deal with. And, you know, it's. I think it's about.
To some extent, it's about finding that community and finding those people who you can rely on and talk with openly about it.
[01:03:27] Speaker A: 100%, dude. Yeah, it's there. There was a shift for me where someone just mentioned, like, you know, high tide, races, all ships. So if, you know, it's like, at first where. When, you know, maybe some people were doing better, I was kind of like, I. I would just get down on myself, like, I'm not doing enough. But now I try, you know, I try to think of it in that, you know, a win. A win for them is like a win for me because that's someone in my network doing well. Like, that's, you know, that's good for everyone.
[01:03:59] Speaker C: And a lot of it is chance.
[01:04:00] Speaker A: Their power for my benefit.
[01:04:04] Speaker C: But it's all about manipulation.
[01:04:06] Speaker A: It's all about. Exactly.
[01:04:07] Speaker C: It's a game of manipulation.
[01:04:08] Speaker A: If you want to succeed in this industry.
[01:04:10] Speaker C: The episode title is how to Manipulate.
[01:04:13] Speaker B: That's great.
[01:04:14] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:04:16] Speaker C: Well, we always ask this question on the podcast and. Meaning Luke mostly asks it, but I'm gonna ask it this time.
What is the dream? Where do you see yourself?
What sort of stuff are you making? What sort of position are you in? Are you winning Oscars? Are you winning razzies? What are you winning? What are you not winning?
Where do you.
[01:04:39] Speaker A: Are you.
[01:04:40] Speaker C: Are you living on a farm in San Luis Obispo and heading down to LA to make a feature every five years? Like, what is. What is your dream?
[01:04:47] Speaker A: That's a good question, man. Yeah, I think the dream would be just to be able to, like, live comfortably and do this, like, make a movie maybe every, like, I guess, five to six years, if I could do that. And I do think that's super doable and whether that means, like, making enough each film to live off of or kind of having another job that I have to do in tandem, like, as long as I can just do that. And. And, you know, I. Now that I'm, like, getting closer to. I'm like, 32, so I'm. It's like, are we doing kids? Are we not? Like, now it's this weird phase where, you know, I can either make a movie or I can have a kid.
Which baby? Which baby do I Want. You know, so only one gets a red carpet.
Only one gets a red carpet, dude. Exactly.
[01:05:40] Speaker C: So true.
You're submitting your baby to a festival run. Come on.
[01:05:44] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[01:05:45] Speaker C: That's not how that works.
[01:05:49] Speaker A: Come on.
[01:05:49] Speaker B: That's like.
[01:05:51] Speaker A: But it's just like, what. What can I afford to. To live comfortably, you know, And I'm. I'm grateful enough or, you know, lucky enough to have had a great upbringing. So it's like, I mean, I hope I'm not getting too existential, but it's just like, can I. Can I give my future kids the same opportunities I had? And in pursuing my passion, like, how selfish is that versus, you know, so it's. It's. All these things are floating. But in terms of the dream, I think it would be if I could just make a movie every. Yeah, like, five years and. And whatever that means. But to also generate income while doing it, whether that's from the movie or from another job as well, like, that would. I'd be cool with that, you know, never not shooting for the moon. Like, if someone wants to hand me an Oscar, I'm not going to say no. But that's not, like, exactly the end goal for me, for sure.
[01:06:42] Speaker B: So knowing that dream, what do you have to do? Or what can you do now? What. What do you have to do today to achieve that? Like, what are you going to do?
[01:06:52] Speaker A: That's a great question, man. I think, firstly, something I've been thinking a lot about is, like, just promoting this one much more. Like, now that I have a feature out, something done, just trying to get in front of many. As many people as possible so that when I go to the next one, at least when we're talking about, like, maybe getting that name talent to do, like, a day or two with us, they can at least be like, okay, this is. You know, he's able to tell a story. Some of this is kind of funny. Um, it's just, like, building up that credibility more and more. So I think through this feature and then even online as well, in, like, making more content that way, to try and build up my own.
My own following so that when I go to crowdsource again or whatever it is, there's just that much more of a network to reach out to.
[01:07:39] Speaker C: Totally, totally.
[01:07:41] Speaker B: Go send some. Some texts, man.
[01:07:43] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:07:45] Speaker C: Go do some TikTok dances or something. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Hop on the trends.
[01:07:51] Speaker B: You should do magic on TikTok, and.
[01:07:55] Speaker C: People would love that.
[01:07:56] Speaker B: Do, like, live streams on TikTok.
[01:07:59] Speaker A: I should. I should yeah.
[01:08:01] Speaker C: Did you learn any magic for the movie? Did you learn tricks?
[01:08:06] Speaker A: I don't think I learned a single trick, actually.
[01:08:09] Speaker C: There's some stuff that is acting right there.
[01:08:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Hey, that's the testament to my performance.
I think I might have learned like some sleight of hand stuff, but I'm not going to get it. Like I don't have it locked down, basically.
[01:08:23] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
[01:08:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:08:26] Speaker C: Well, awesome, dude. Really, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I feel like we sifted through so, so much.
Whether it's with this movie.
I think one huge takeaway is just how to incorporate improv on set and deal with real life people.
Because that's a skill for any sort of movie, whether scripted, unscripted, all that.
And you learn a lot of lessons on the way. So thanks for sharing that with us and staying honest about where you're at. And for us, it's always good to learn from someone who's a couple steps ahead of us. So appreciate it, dude.
[01:09:05] Speaker A: Thank you, guys. I mean, just having this platform is super cool. It's really cool that you guys have this, this space for, for filmmakers to come on and just kind of be honest about what this kind of, you know, artistic pursuit is like. So I'm super grateful that you guys are even doing this and let alone having me on. So hopefully I didn't rant too much nonsense, but appreciate your guys time, man.
[01:09:26] Speaker B: Appreciate you, man. Nice meeting you.
[01:09:28] Speaker C: Appreciate it, dude.
[01:09:35] Speaker B: Did you learn something? I'm like your mom. Did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging. Make sure you follow us at the 5050 Fest on Instagram and give us five stars because. Why not? Why not subscribe? Why not? You know why not? Okay, bye.
