HOW TO: Build Your Brand (w/ Noah Wolfson)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: I think in order to get people excited and to be able to convince a studio to give you real money, to really build it out, to be able to send something that has millions or hundreds, hundreds of thousands or million views on YouTube or TikTok or Instagram, that shows like, hey, this idea works and we are able to do it on a shoestring budget, Imagine what we could do with real dollars behind us is going to be key. [00:00:33] Speaker B: I'm Luke Steinfeld. [00:00:34] Speaker C: And I'm Wyatt Sarkisian. [00:00:36] Speaker B: We made the 5050 podcast to support you on your filmmaking journey. [00:00:39] Speaker C: 50% business, 50% creative. [00:00:41] Speaker B: Every Tuesday, a new how to. [00:00:44] Speaker C: And this week we sit down with UTA coordinator Noah Wolfson, who lays out his bold vision for the future of the media landscape. Buckle up, it's 50 50. [00:00:54] Speaker A: Enjoy. [00:01:19] Speaker B: Noah Wolfson, welcome to the podcast, man. You have been a supporter of 5050 since day one. You were at the first one, right? [00:01:28] Speaker A: I was. [00:01:28] Speaker B: And the inaugural and the third, and the fourth and the fifth, you know, and you'll be at the sixth, probably. So just wanted to say thank you so much, man, for. For coming on today. I. I can't wait to talk to you at uta. Killing it now, a coordinator. Congratulations. Let's get to it. [00:01:46] Speaker A: Yeah. So right now I'm coordinator in our creators group, so I'm more specifically on our sports creators team. So we're working with people that are retired athletes or people that make content in and around sports. So we represent people that are digital influencers. For the wnba, for example, we represent Rachel Demita, who has the largest WNBA podcast right now and is crushing it. We represent, you know, people like Bob Does Sports, who's absolutely freaking hilarious, and those types of characters. So we represent like a range of people. And the cool thing about being in creators is, like, there is so much opportunity and there's so many ways to be entrepreneurial where it's not just one lane. Dramatic actor and actress. And that's what we're going to do. It's our big thing is like finding people that we could actually expand beyond digital and bring in an unscripted group, bring in our publishing group, obviously, make sure we crush it for them on the digital side, but figure out other ways that we can help develop them as an entity themselves. [00:02:54] Speaker C: Right. I find that one of the great parts about working at a company like UTA is the cross collaboration between all the departments. How often are you thinking about that? About, you know, even this morning, you were there for your music colleagues. And I'm sure there's cross Pollination there. How often are you thinking about that? [00:03:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say I try to think about it all the time for every single client I am fortunate enough to have worked for, Jeremy Zimmer. So he kind of also put that into my brain because his day to day job was thinking about how are we doing that best for every single client? How are we wrapping each client around 360. So when I think about the clients that we were just representing creators, it's always, you know, I'm always thinking about, well, does this person want to write a book? You know, there's a really good example. This was before my time. But, you know, one of our success stories is a digital creator named Brooke Averick that also has a podcast. And yeah, she's hilarious and super smart. And you know, one of our publishing, one of our young publishing agents was listening to her and listened to her on a podcast talk about how she wants to write a book and like reached out to her agent and now she got a huge two book deal that's now also being, that was also licensed to Netflix to then be developed into a TV show. And you just like see all this crazy stuff where you take somebody who's a natively digital creator that has a podcast to now somebody that writes a book and then you bring in our media rights team that then adapts that book into a TV show and you really see all the levers of UTA working. So, you know, you can do that at a small scale, you do that medium scale, you do that at a big scale. And you know, you see all these different clients that we represent at UTA trying to lean more into that. There are of course clients that want to not do that and they want to just crush it in their niche. But I think that we're always trying to think about clients that we can really develop and wrap ourselves around. [00:04:55] Speaker B: What side of it right now are like you most passionate excited about like with the current position, or is there like a next step that you're already super pumped about? [00:05:05] Speaker A: I think for me, what I'm most excited about right now is the opportunity within the creator space where you have, you have creators that are getting paid lots of money to do brand deals, for example, like, let's just put Stabras as an example right here where Stavros is crushing it and firing on all cylinders, where he's making a boatload of money on tour, he's got a hilarious podcast and now we've also helped him become a more serious actor in doing like the next Yorgos movie. Right. Where he is crushing it in so many different ways. Where I think it's just fun to be working with somebody like that. Right. Where, you know, he is living out his artistic dream of being in a serious movie with Yorgos. He's doing the most hilarious TV show on Netflix right now in Tires. That's really more on like the acting, TV lit side. Right. And then you also have podcasts, and with that podcast also having all of these brand deals. So, you know, when you have a conversation with Stavros, it's not, hey, let's get you this one great brand deal for your podcast. It's how can we do all of these things for you and make sure that you are accomplishing all the goals that you want to be doing. [00:06:28] Speaker B: And it's exciting for you to kind of play consultant there and like, think about, hey, what's exciting to you, Creator, like, you talent and like, let's find out how to like, have some fun here. Is that what's exciting to Noah? [00:06:41] Speaker A: That's what's exciting to me. Right? Because, you know, doing the same deal over and over and over again, it's definitely fun to be bringing in and transacting. And that's great. And that's a big also. That's also a big reason why I wanted to be in Creators is I wanted to transact just at a foundational level. And I love the sales side of the business. You know, weirdly enough for me, that's one reason that pulled me into the business is I really love the idea of doing the sexiest form of sales, in a way, and that being entertainment. Because, you know, you read all the books about, from Geffen and Meyer and Ovitz, and they talk about how being a good agent is being a good salesperson. And that's where I was attacking the role of what being a great agent would be, is being a great salesperson. So I love transacting. And at the same time, I want to have a lot of different calls. You know, I don't want to just have be doing turn and burn brand deals. Those are great. But I also want to be talking to different, you know, you know, if I'm talking to Live Nation or we're talking AEG and we're trying to figure out different, you know, what's the touring schedule for Stavros, and we're, you know, we're talking to writers because of. Because of tires or you're also talking to different major studio execs to try to get them into different. Different movies or TV shows. I think that there's a lot to be done and your day becomes a lot more exciting because you're doing so many different things. [00:08:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, it's called the 5050 podcast because we talk about the creative and business clashing and it seems like you're able to do that more traditional side of agenting, which is the negotiation part of it, the sales, the figuring out opportunities for your clients in a linear sense. But there's also the creative part of it, which, you know, it's not like you're writing or doing something like classically creative, but it's thinking outside of the box for your clients. I'm curious what those conversations are like with those clients because I know some people personally who are influencers and their agents are wanting them to get into X because there's opportunity there and that's what they see their fan base liking. But it's a push and pull. Right? Because in the best case, your client hasn't thought of this for themselves, but you're bringing it up and they're like, oh my God, I would love to do this. But in a lesser case, it's like, oh God, my agent's wanting me to do this and it's unwilling. So how do you provide opportunities to your clients? And I guess more so listen to your clients and figure out what those opportunities are and what are those conversations like, look like? [00:09:24] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I can just kind of speak generally here is like, I think that it will be very difficult to try to convince your client to do something that they don't necessarily want to do. Right. Where if it would be hard for me to convince a client to be like, you have to start a podcast right there. So many people are crushing on the podcast space right now. There's so much opportunity. It would be a great way for you to get your brand out there in a fun, casual way where you can be a bit. You could actually have a polished podcast or less polished podcast where people can really see you for who you are. But at the end of the day, if that client doesn't want to do it, you know, I'm not going to try to convince them that they have to do it. I think that bringing the opportunity to them and saying, hey, if this is this something that you've thought about, if it is, great, we have the levers to pull and we have the resources to help you make that dream come true. But if it's not something that you want to do, let's work together and figure out something else. There Might. There are a ton of clients that, you know, want to build their own brands. Right. So we have a ventures group within UTA that we help clients help achieve, you know, different brands that they're trying to build or different products. You know, Seth Rogen has an edibles brand that we were, you know, super involved with, from ideation to packaging to production and doing all of that stuff. [00:10:46] Speaker C: To testing them out. Yeah, you know. [00:10:49] Speaker A: Exactly. And we didn't go to Seth being like, dude, you should start an edibles company, but, you know, when Seth brought that to our attention, we definitely wanted to be involved and help support it. [00:11:00] Speaker C: It for sure, aligns with his vibe. Same with the way that, like, Chamberlain Coffee, you know, aligns with Chamberlain's mind because she's drinking iced coffee in every single video. You know, they're like these natural sort of things that happen that it's like, a perfect match almost. [00:11:16] Speaker A: And also doing it. I think Chamberlain Coffee is the perfect example. And also for Chamberlain Coffee is. She's a perfect example of. If you look at her branding, you could see how specific and strategic it is. It's not like a basic coffee company. You know, it's pouched. It's pouched like coffee bags, almost like tea bags, where it's super accessible to her Gen Z millennial audience who don't. [00:11:41] Speaker C: Know how to use a coffee machine, you know? [00:11:44] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. And we have a bunch at the office, and I drink that stuff all day. [00:11:48] Speaker C: It's good. [00:11:49] Speaker A: So I'm also a huge fan. [00:11:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:51] Speaker A: Which is great. [00:11:52] Speaker C: Yeah. Love that. [00:11:53] Speaker B: I think it'd be really interesting to get into. I mean, no. I don't know how much you know about the pod, but, like, all of our episodes are labeled how to, and they're kind of instructional in that way. And our audience is very much hungry to learn and from folks like yourself who are knowledgeable about their pocket in the industry. And obviously, someone like you not only knows a ton of people, but also, like, has a lot of knowledge in a lot of different pockets, which is really fun to be able to talk to you for that exact reason. But I feel like it could be really interesting to kind of, like, lean into the branding side of things and think about how young filmmakers or young industry professionals can, like, look at themselves as a brand and, like, the different ways to kind of like. Or just how, like, exciting it can be to kind of, like, branch out and try different things and try different mediums. [00:12:47] Speaker A: Totally. And I think that's a great question. I'm kind of. I'm going to layer it a bit and start with some general advice and then go specific. So, you know, answering your. Yeah, yeah, we'll go right into it. [00:12:58] Speaker C: Makes it very easy for us. Perfect. [00:13:00] Speaker A: I think the first question about, like, you know, what would you suggest or like, what would you say to somebody that's kind of first getting started out? And I'm going to pull this for, from Ari Emanuel and all of the podcasts that I've listened to him go on is, you know, his biggest piece of. One of his biggest pieces of advice is, is showing up. And you have to show up. And, you know, when you guys were first starting the 5050 film festival, I'll be completely honest, like, the first one or the second one? You know, I woke up that day when I was like, you know, should I really drive to West Hollywood? Do I really want to go to this thing? And I was like, don't be soft. You're going to get to go to this really cool thing. Luke and Wyatt are putting it on. It's going to be amazing. And you're going to meet some really cool filmmakers. And if you go and, you know, you don't meet anybody, which would be your fault for not introducing yourself, then it is what it is, right? But for me, that idea of showing up has been super important because I try to take that. Try to take that piece of advice for so many things right there. For any assistant that's listening in on this is, you know, LA can be a pretty flaky town where people like to cancel their drinks last minute or, oh, I'm not feeling it. So, you know, maybe we'll just reschedule. And for me, you know, sometimes people need to reschedule for good reasons, but I also feel like there sometimes can be a culture of, oh, just reschedule it. You know, and for me, I think that's such a bad habit to get into because, you know, it shows the other person that you're not willing to show up for them. And if you're not willing to, you know, take 30 to 30 minutes to an hour out of their day to just like, meet somebody, you know, after scheduling it, you know, you probably can't rely on that person to actually get a business deal across the line. You're right. You can't really rely on that person. So I think that showing up is a huge thing and the biggest thing that I would recommend. And honestly, by showing up to the 5050 fest, I'm going to give a shout out to Zach and Ryan and, and Teddy and All the other amazing filmmakers that I've met through 5050 is I met some amazing, amazing, incredible filmmakers, directors, writers, producers, through 5050 that I've, you know, tried to help in any way that I can at UTA and hopefully will one day become real clients. And, you know, Zach and Ryan did this amazing Doritos super bowl commercial they are doing that they just finished shooting this amazing Manscape commercial that they let me be an extra on and let me get hopefully one. [00:15:37] Speaker C: And you showed up. [00:15:38] Speaker A: And I showed up and I went all the way to Chatsworth and said, what up to Marilyn Manson? Got a little spooked out, but had, you know, and, you know, seeing the incredible work that, you know, Zach and Ryan have been able to pull off and, you know, hopefully one day those guys, you know, being the next 10 comedy directors and me being able to say, you know, wow, that all started from 5050 is going to be pretty wild. And I know that we're on the trajectory of having a relationship like that and being able to say that one day, but that again, all starts from showing up. So I think it, generally speaking is having this idea of showing up is most important. And then once you do show up, making sure that you introduce yourself to as many people as you can. Start with a smile, start with a hello, and you never know where things can go. And, you know, a year and a half, two years later, you know, Zach and Ryan. Zach and Ryan and I are talking, you know, at least once a week. We're trying to help them, you know, in any way, shape I can, introducing them to different commercial production companies, reading their scripts, trying to get them in touch with, like, other agents, agents at uta, that can be helpful. And for me, that is so fun. And again, you know, reinforces the idea that I know I'm in the right place, that I know I should be an agent. Because that idea of meeting somebody, believing in what they're doing, being blown away by what they can create, and trying to figure out different ways to help me champion them, it's like, for whatever, which reason, that scratches my itch. So I know that I'm in the right place. And I think what you guys are building within 5050 to help create that community and foster those relationships is so key and so amazing for young people within the industry. [00:17:30] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, the cool thing about 5050 is that, I mean, you could, like Noah, you could go to a drinks and meet one person for an hour, but you could also go to 5050 and meet, you know, 30 people in an hour. And I think that's like the difference and that's the reason to go to those sorts of things. Not to say that one on one, you know, things are not important, but it's. I, I think that's a really good point. And we're, we're happy to have you in the 5050 family because you are getting to like facilitate these connections. And I think it's so amazing. I, I see that, that drive in you that's just like, let me talk with these people and listen to them and hear what do you guys want to do? What are you doing? Well, in where, what areas do you want to go in? And if they say they want to, you know, direct the next theatrical comedy, that's a ten year path, probably. Realistically. Exactly, but, or, you know, however many years. But it's about what can we do now? So, you know, in terms of like building out their brand or filmmakers like them, what, what sort of things are you, are you thinking about? You know, at this moment? [00:18:35] Speaker A: I think that the creator economy is really cool in the sense that it enables young filmmakers to build the brand themselves. They don't have to rely on a studio or a production company to give them a certain amount of money to be able to do it. I mean, you look at the top creators, I mean, Kai Sonat, Mr. Beast, all those guys all started making videos in their room and now look at them. It's insane. I mean, you look at Rocka, Rocka and the Philippe brothers, right? I think that the next generation of super talented filmmakers and our next generation of comedians and superstars are all going to come from social media because it enables the power. The power is now in the hands of the creator. So I think one thing that I look for as, you know, if, if it's somebody that I'm working, you know, as somebody that's excited about representing somebody, is representing people that don't need other people to make what they want. Right. I think Zach and Ryan and Teddy are perfect examples where like Teddy went out and made love bugs on a shoestring budget and made it look like a studio gave him 250 grand to make this incredible heartwarming story about a snail. Right? But he made it on a shoestring budget and he just figured it out. And I think that's what it's going to take. And it's just going to take people the grit and the will to figure it out. And for me, it's super exciting to be working with people like that because you're not Just plugging and playing them into different writers rooms or different directing jobs. You are helping them build their brand and you're just helping championing their vision. [00:20:30] Speaker C: Yeah, right. [00:20:31] Speaker A: There's a lot of scripts going around. There's a lot of people that have their own pilots that have. That have written scripts. And I think that what it really takes now is somebody that can do it all. And that's tough, but I think that that's just the situation where we're in, where the traditional space is contracting rapidly. Right. And I think that in order to make what you want to make, you have to be able to be a writer, a director, a producer, and you got to be able to do it all. And I think it's really fun to work with people that can do it all. When I was on and Luke, I'll let you jump in. When I was on the Manscape commercial with Zach and Ryan and just seeing them work, I was like, I could never do this. And the fact that they have the technical skills and ambition to do it, I was just, you know, I was definitely blown away. [00:21:29] Speaker B: I was just gonna say, does this mean that you're more interested in a proof of concept rather than a script? Like you're saying there are a lot of scripts, There's a lot of people kind of in this, waiting in this pool of like waiting for Noah to pick up the phone and say, hey, let's do this. We're gonna get you that money. Let's do this thing. Rather than, like you said, those multi hyphenates people are able to do it all. Like is a proof of concept for that reason, just more valuable than a script right now. Or you think it's a mix of both or is a great script still a great script and you can't really beat that. [00:22:03] Speaker A: I think it's a great question and I think for me to say definitively would be wrong of me because who am I to say in depth, you know, definitively what I think is right or wrong? I think that people will want to see like, for. I think people want to see some type of sizzle reel or some type of YouTube following. If you're trying to build a TV show, I think that if you are or, or an Instagram serialized type piece of content or TikTok series, I think in order to get people excited and to be able to convince a studio to give you real money, to really build it out, to be able to send something that has millions or hundreds, hundreds of thousands or million views on YouTube or TikTok or Instagram that shows like, hey, this idea works and we are able to do it on a shoestring budget. Imagine what we could do with real dollars behind us. Yeah, is going to be key. And I also think that, you know, you have a lot of YouTube creators that are getting paid through AdSense or different YouTube or brand integrations that if they want to, you know, make more traditional content, one can, can make it on themselves. They don't need, they don't need a studio to tell them what they can or cannot make. Shane Gillis, for example, with Gillian Keys. You know, I don't know if Netflix would get behind Gillian Keys right away. You know, it's, it's pretty out there, but it's hilarious and has racked up millions and millions of views and has given Shane that legitimacy where he had the right to make tires and had a right to make that chance. So I, I think that a proof of concept, going back to answer your question, I think a proof of concept is, is super important. And this is not to be cynical. I just don't think a 30 to 50 page script does it these days. I think people need more these days to be able to put real dollars behind it. [00:24:20] Speaker C: That's a great point. I have a lot of friends. I went to a writing program where all we did was write scripts and I have a lot of friends who are writing tons of scripts, writing more than me, writing better than I am. And I do suggest them. Go make your pilot. Make it. You can make a 30 page pilot for a very small budget and it doesn't need to look perfect. It just will legitimize it even if it doesn't. I mean, obviously views are important in their own way, but even if it doesn't do that, it just provides that visual element to it. Or make your pilot into an Instagram series and have 10 little vertical reels or whatever. I mean, as you're saying this, I'm thinking, thinking even for myself, I'm like, okay, what's a way that I could, you know, it's just like this small speed bump to get over into really legitimizing yourself. And it is very hard with a script and no representation to do anything, you know, or nothing that you've actually been able to make or say that you've written on or what have you. [00:25:32] Speaker B: This goes out to all the horror filmmakers out there. Do you have a short film that you want to get seen by people who can actually advance your career? The 5050 Horror Fest is coming up 10-19-2025. Submission prices go up August 22nd. So get them in before then. Film Freeway linked in the episode description. Submitting can lead to jobs, fame and money, fast cars, boats and planes. Don't forget to submit your whole family. Submissions go of August 22nd. Hope to see you there. And now back to the episode. Jumping back to kind of just like you and your department right now and like working with the talent and creators. Are they coming to you being like I want to be in the new Yorgo film or is it like more of, you know, you guys are pushing them in that direction? [00:26:24] Speaker A: I think it, it's definitely case by case. Charlie d', Amelio, for example, wanted, you know, really wanted to break out on Broadway and we brought in our theater department and, and those people, Andrew Menken, who's in our theater group is absolutely amazing. And now she's going to be the lead of Ann Juliet on Broadway. And pretty sure that's all public information. We'll double check before it goes live. But you know, something like that where you know, know Charlie D' Amelio is a perfect example again of doing the 360 stuff where because UTA has all these resources, if Charlie came to us and said I want to be on Broadway, but we didn't have a, you know, we didn't have a theater group, you know, we'd be like, you know, what are we going to do? But because we have such a strong theater presence in New York, we were able to set her up on a lot of different producer calls. All of our theater agents got involved and you know, we really wrapped our arms around her and were able to get her, her dream come true. So I think it depends, I think that, I think it, it has to go both ways, right? Because you as an agent want to be bringing clients various ideas. You obviously want them to make sense. But I think that going back to the beginning, it's got to, it's got to be a two way street. And you also have to be able to deliver. If a client wants to be able to do something, you gotta be able to deliver or you gotta figure out a way to get it done. And I think that's a, that's a big thing. And I think that, you know, clients leave every big agency, people leave uta, people leave ca, people leave wme. And I think that it's sometimes, probably most of the time because they are not getting the love in what they really want to be doing or they have this big idea and they feel like they're not getting the support, they don't have the support in helping accomplish what they want to get done. [00:28:25] Speaker B: So let's say client comes to you and says, I have this script for a TV show. And you're like, in the back of Noah's mind, there are way too many scripts. I have 100 on my desk. I know my boss and this person. Everyone has scripts right now. Are you going to push them to go make that pilot, to go make a web series, to go make a podcast? Like, what are you consulting them on? Or are you saying like, great, here's a script, let's go bring this around town kind of thing? [00:28:55] Speaker A: I think it would depend on a few things. It's got to depend on how good the script is, right? Because if the script is not where it needs to be, you can't be stuck. And you know, like, you know, as a TV lit person, you know, if the script is great or not and you know, if it's in the right place to start sending it out to Netflix, Hulu, Disney and all these other different places. So if you think it's great enough to stand alone, then great. Yeah, I would send it to all the different production companies and studios. If it's not, you know, I think that you got to work with the client to get it to a better place. And also depends on the type of content. Right? Is it, is it a workplace comedy where you could probably, you know, film a 12 minute short of the pilot and get it done, or is it serious drama fantasy that takes place, you know, in like Game of Thrones type culture where you're like, well, we're going to need a studios buying to actually make this happen. Or, you know, you start using AI, like everybody should be to be able to create some stuff and you lean on AI. I think that AI is going to be really exciting where it's going to enable creators to make more stuff for cheaper. I think we're going to start seeing a lot of people take a lot more risks because hopefully AI is going to bring down the cost of production tremendously. Obviously, you guys probably have your own thoughts on AI that I would love to hear, but I think that shying away or being resistant to AI is probably just not a good idea in the long run. [00:30:38] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I agree with everything you said and I've warmed up to AI over time, just through various conversations with people. I think the only. It's not even pushed back to what you said, but the only thing that I do think about is how important entry level jobs are. In entertainment. And I do see AI taking away some of those and those jobs create pipelines for, you know, to the top. So that's, that's like the only thing that I'm just personally figuring out with my relationship with AI. But I completely agree and I like the way you framed that in terms of taking risks. And I mean, if, even if I was in, when I was in college and freshman year and like writing stuff, if I had AI, my God, it would make things so much easier to just like get stuff made, you know, right away. And especially in, in the landscape that, that you're in. I, I think AI, what are, what are the conversations like at, at the company around AI? [00:31:36] Speaker A: There's going to be a lot more people taking risks, which is great. I think that below the line workers, you know, will probably be in a tough situation. I think that, you know, studios are probably going to make less stuff and I think that there's going to be like a lesser need for some of those background or smaller roles in movies. I would honestly be interested in talking to like the creative team at studios for like big tentpole movies about are they integrating AI characters into their movies? Right. Because you have like, obviously your top tier talent that are going to help get a movie made and bring people to the theaters. But for all of those actors that are like a tier or two tiers below that, are you, are you going to start filling those characters with AI and be able to interact and have those top tier talent interact with AI characters? [00:32:41] Speaker C: I'm just spitballing here. [00:32:42] Speaker A: That will be insane. [00:32:44] Speaker C: It's so hard. [00:32:45] Speaker A: But I'm sure that that's going to. [00:32:46] Speaker C: Be a thing because in that case, like, how do you get your SAG card by being an extra on something. So it's tough. But I do think that one question that I have is if AI is going to bring down costs for studios, which it will, why would they not be making more stuff instead of making less, Wouldn't they be able to make more movies? Or do they just want to spend less in general? And, and that's that, you know, I. [00:33:15] Speaker A: Think that people themselves are going to make more and not require and not lean on a studio to actually get it done. [00:33:24] Speaker C: Right? Yeah. [00:33:25] Speaker A: So I think more people are going to take more risks, but I don't know if a studio is going to continue to take a lot of risks risks and spend the money to market it and put it in movie theaters. Right. Because that P and A costs so much, so much money. And to take a bet to spend money on P and A, to hopefully get people to the movie theaters is just a risk. So I think that you're going to see more and more creators just do stuff on their own. [00:33:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:59] Speaker B: How outdated is the system right now in your eyes? [00:34:02] Speaker A: I think the traditional space is outdated for sure. And I'm a very optimistic person. So I don't like being cynical. But you know, you listen to three episodes of Matthew Bellamy on the town and you go, okay, film and tv, I don't know. But you know, at the same time, you know, you do have revenues for film and TV being higher than they've ever been for some companies. Right. You have movies doing a billion. A billion dollars. A billion and a half dollars, which is like always a good sign. But you definitely see, you know, I was listening to Mike Ovitz's book the other day and you hear him talk about how he kept Rain man together through five different directors and he kept it together like glue. And then it did $400 million at the box office like Rain man today. I'm just not confident that Rayman Today, which is a road movie with two brothers, would do $400 million at the box office because my parents aren't going to the movies. Neither of your parents are probably going to the movies. And my idea of a Friday night date is not going to see a potential Oscar award winning movie. And that's coming from somebody that works in entertainment. So, you know, if you start to get into middle America as well, I'm sure that, you know, going to, you know, drama is not the idea of a Friday or Saturday night evening activity. [00:35:36] Speaker C: My ideal Friday night date is watching Zach and Ryan's manscape commercial. [00:35:43] Speaker A: Dude, dude. Sign me up. Are you? Yeah, I'll bring over a bottle of wine. Invite me over. Let's go. [00:35:51] Speaker C: Watching it on, on repeat. I love it. [00:35:54] Speaker A: But yeah, yeah. So I think that going back, is it outdated? I think that there are elements that are outdated. I think like the idea of like writing a pilot script and hoping it gets picked up and doing pilot, like pilot season doesn't really exist anymore. CBS are not making their half hour comedies. You're not seeing Big Bang Theory. You're not seeing Two and a Half Men. You're not seeing those types of Mike and Molly list goes on and on and on. How I Met yout Mother. I could keep going. Everybody's favorite 30 minute TV show that you used to tune in Thursday at 7:30pm and watch with your family. Like that just doesn't happen anymore. To Try to act and do the same things that made those TV shows successful. And trying to act like, oh, I'll just do what they did and I'll be successful. It's just not going to work. So you got to figure out new ways. And the other thing that I would say about the uta, but I'd say this about WV and CA as well, is like, they're not just film and TV companies anymore. They've had to adapt. And the companies that are still your boutique lit companies have definitely suffered. So I think that the, you know, 20 years ago, UTA creators didn't exist. So being in the talent representation business is still a thriving business. You just have to make sure that you put yourself in a spot of the business that is thriving, or at least you're being creative in figuring out ways to win for your clients. And you're not trying to do the thing that worked 20 years ago, you're not trying to do that today. [00:37:30] Speaker C: Did you work in lit ever in those more traditional areas? [00:37:34] Speaker A: I worked in our talent department for a year, which is great. I worked for an agent who's great, who represents dramatic actors and actresses. But for me personally, I have my gravitation towards comedy. So for me, I was always, I thought it was cool, but I was never madly in love with it. [00:37:55] Speaker C: What are the things that we can learn going into the creator space so that we don't get too ahead of ourselves with the wild west of it all? What are those things that we can learn from the more traditional parts of the industry? [00:38:10] Speaker A: I'll lean on Zach and Ryan for this answer because I think that they're doing it a really great way. Is that, and we kind of touched on this earlier, is that getting your tent pole movie made or like your, your dream comedy is going to take years? Look at the Friday beers, guys, right? Where the stuff that they're making now or that they have been making, like those 10 to 15 minute shorts are super impressive. And like the content that they're making is elevated. And they're not just putting out like. [00:38:45] Speaker C: An iPhone, like a typical creator video. [00:38:49] Speaker A: Like a typical creator video. They're making a real short film with a story arc with different characters that has plot twist. [00:38:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:59] Speaker A: And I was just watching the, the short film about the London agent that it's so hilarious where they put on Netflix. You feel like you're watching Netflix and then they, they do the whole franchise where like Hollywood's making the same franchise episode, but then they go into the character more and they go like they Go third dimension where they, they do like that, that actors like crash out, you know, off camera and how he like, you know, the fame gets to them and then they make a movie about that fame getting to them and like a document. It's all, it's super awesome. Yeah, it's a Super awesome like 15 minute YouTube. [00:39:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:41] Speaker A: I would say with like the Friday beers guys is like, they are probably on track to get the backing of making like a longer, like a long form comedy. You look at Tim Robinson with friendship, right? He got a shot with a 24 to make a hilarious movie. [00:40:02] Speaker B: Man, think about that career. [00:40:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Like all those years, all those years of doing short form sketch comedy and short form hilarious sketches that have all accumulated into being able to make a movie. But it wasn't like the movie was where he made all of his money. Like he's been able to make a bunch of money with his different TV shows. [00:40:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:26] Speaker A: So I would say start, try to get a brand involved. You know, brands are trying to figure out unique ways to tell their story. It's a big thing at UTA right now in our entertainment culture marketing group of how do we help brands properly integrate into entertainment? You see a lot of top brands that have their own studios. Toke has their own studio. Bumble is developing a studio. Walmart's building a studio, Macy's. Right. The list goes on and on and on. So as a creator, I also think about, you know, if you're young, you just try to get your foot in the door. Also thinking about trying to go be a director for one of those brands and just doing something and having commercials or short films that prove your work that then you can then parlay into something bigger. I think you got to start small. You got to start somewhere. And you know, just writing that one script and hoping somebody reads your script and that one pilot's going to get made is, I just think it's living in, you know, it's, it's great to be hopeful, it's great to be optimistic. But people want to see real work. You know, even with, you know, I, I've been emailing people some, you know, an email just came in. I, I emailed, I emailed a commercial production company like, yo, you guys gotta check out Zach and Ryan. They just made the Doritos commercial and they're like, this is awesome. What else do you guys have to show? Right? You know, people want to see multiple things as a proof of concept. So I hope that answered your question in the sense of if I'm A recent grad from USC or Chapman or nyu. And you know, what should I do right now? I would say get your four to five other creative friends and go make content on a shoestring budget and try to make it as elevated as possible. Leaning into AI, leaning into your technical skills, and just start posting it on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, wherever you have to post it and just try to get your word out. Because I think people are going to be more excited about seeing something than reading something that they're not sure is actually good or not. Because it's too hard to take a bet on just a script these days. [00:42:53] Speaker C: It's very hard to work with. I mean, it's hard not to speak from my own perspective in the place that I work, but it's hard to take. It's always a risk when you begin developing something with someone and you want previous work that has been done before. And for those people who don't have previous work and are graduating from X school or. Or didn't go to school and they're just trying to figure it out themselves. Like, how do you get that. Those things under your belt? And it's by utilizing the. The YouTube space or the Instagram space or whatever it is. [00:43:29] Speaker B: Can we take it back, Noah? [00:43:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:32] Speaker B: Before Agency World. Young Noah, what are you thinking about? Because, I mean, we. We could talk about. I mean, Wyatt, I've known Noah for a good amount of years now. [00:43:47] Speaker A: Honestly, probably like, what, I was a sophomore at Michigan. So what was that, six years? [00:43:53] Speaker B: Yeah, probably five or six years, man. Like way before the festival, way before any of this stuff. But I know you went to Michigan. I know you grew up in the city. In New York. I mean, Westchester. Westchester west, sorry, West. Westchester. You're one of those dudes, man, that like, everyone just kind of knows, you know? I was on a phone call with this kid a few days back. He's in music. He's like a really cool dude. And I was just talking to him about the festival, and he's like, oh my gosh, like, you gotta talk to this kid, Noah. [00:44:31] Speaker C: And I was like, Noah's been there from. [00:44:33] Speaker B: From day one. Like, Noah Wolfson. He's like, dude, how do you know Noah Wolfson? And it just. It's that is. That happens like two or three times a week at this point. You know, where it's like, how do you know? No, it's like, dude, why did. Why does no one know everyone? [00:44:47] Speaker A: But like, I appreciate the ego boost. I'll. I'll take it all Day. [00:44:50] Speaker B: No, but it's true, man. It's true. You know, and it's. I. I remember at Michigan and stuff seeing you on parents weekends, like, you're always talking to the parents and just being a very outgoing, social guy. I just want to. I want to get into before all of this, you know? And, like, where did that come from? Were you always just drawn to conversation or supporting artists? Like, where does that come from? Are you competitive? Are you in sports? Talk about that. [00:45:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, one, thank you for the ego boost. Thank you for the kind words I would say when, like. I've also talked to a lot of people that want to get into entertainment that, you know, are Michigan. Michigan students that are trying to figure it out is my whole thing was, you know, going to Michigan, going to a big school, meeting a lot of people, and then just figuring it out was kind of my thesis where it was like, going to a small school has its advantages, but for me, being a people's person, I want to have the opportunity to meet as many people as possible. Went to a decently large public high school in Westchester. We had 400 kids in our grade, which I know is not that big of numbers if people are tuning in from Chicago and if you went to New Trier and those schools where it's 800 kids a grade. But, you know, being in a class of 400 kids, I was president of my class, and then when I was a senior, I was president of my high school. And I love that experience. Wow. [00:46:30] Speaker C: Just breezing through that. There we go. [00:46:33] Speaker A: And I loved that experience because I just loved being in front of people. I love talking to people. My thing was always, you know, walking through the hallways, saying hi to everybody in the hallway. I don't know why, but, you know, it's just something that I like. I like connecting with people. And I think it's a really important thing to have as an agent. If you're somebody that hates talking to people, you just shouldn't be an agent. And I've seen agents that get frustrated when they have to jump on calls or make certain things. It's like, it's probably not the right line of business. Right? Because, you know, for me, the idea of the reason why I was excited about this business is, you know, you read the books and it's like, yeah, make 300 phone calls a day. Or, you know, the Aria manual, where it's like, I. I make 300 calls a day. I'm on the phone talking to every different person. Every 10 minutes, I'm on a Different phone, I'm on a different phone call. And I was like, that sounds. I don't know why. For some people that sounds like a nightmare. But for me, that sounds really cool. And then to add a touch of Scott Galloway in there, where it's like, you should do something that other people would hate to do and that you're good at. You know, what's something that I would be good at that other people would not want to do at all? And being on the phone all day was something where I was like, I really enjoy this. Like, I love connecting with people and I like learning about what they're doing. I like asking questions and doing all that type of stuff. So going back to high school, being president of my school, getting to know all the teachers and the students and the faculty and the parents and doing all that stuff in the public speaking, I really liked it. So then for me it was like the say I go to a big school or a small school. My mom went to Michigan, my brother went to Michigan. I was brainwashed like any other Michigan kid and went to Michigan. Big school made it feel small pretty quickly. Just in the circles that, you know, just within like the group of people that I met but always tried to expand. You know, the one thing that I loved about Michigan is, you know, in your senior year, you can know five people in your class and you can meet five new people in your class. And I never wanted to be at a school where like, I knew everybody by the end of my freshman year. And then for the thinking of that was also, you know, go work at a big agency, meet a lot of people and you'll figure it out. I left Michigan, obviously an incoming freshman, nervous as hell. You know, I did a great job in high school. I was president of my high school, I met a lot of people. But now I'm a small little fish in a big ass ocean, right? Am I gonna figure it out? And by the end of my senior year, like, honestly, by sophomore year, I was like, oh, I can walk through the Ann Arbor diag, say hi to a lot of people. And I really felt at home there. And for me it was that it's that same mentality of, okay, I'm moving to Los Angeles, big city, big company. How do I go from, how do I again go from like that small little fish, big ass ocean and make myself feel at home again. And I think one thing that I had to remind myself is it takes time, but you go to events like 50, 50, you meet a bunch of people, you ask People to go to drinks and lunch and coffees, and slowly but surely it starts to happen. So to answer your question of what was my background and how did I get here? Because I've always thought about what is going to put me in a situation to meet the most amount of people. Because by meeting the most amount of people, you can learn from a lot of different people and then you can figure it out. Right. Because I'll be honest, I know I'm not. No, mit, Harvard, Law School, that's not me. And I want to make sure that I put myself in a situation where I can meet a lot of people that are doing a lot of cool things. And by knowing a lot of people, I can help connect those dots. A lot of people at the agency talk about being an agent is about connecting the dots. Well, in order to connect those dots, you need to know the dots in the most macro way to say it. I'm not trying to be like, philosophical, but, like, that's why you got to know the dots and it's. It's much easier to connect them. [00:51:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:05] Speaker B: Those first few months in la, can you talk about, like, was that difficult? I mean, Louisiana is not an easy city. You're obviously from New York, so that's also not an easy place. But, like, LA is not a very easy spot to, like, meet a ton of people. Like New York, like, that city is. You're surrounded by people your age that are all trying to meet people, you know. So LA is a bit more spread out and this industry isn't the most welcoming. [00:51:36] Speaker A: Well, I think it, I think it honestly can be. And I think that it actually comes from a perspective of if you think it's unwelcoming, then it will be unwelcoming. [00:51:45] Speaker C: You have to put in the work a little bit, you know, you get out what you put. Put into it. I would say totally. [00:51:51] Speaker A: And I think that also the people that want to frame it as, oh, it's a cutthroat business. Honestly, being an agent, like, working at the agency, it's. It's really not unless you make it cutthroat. Where this, it's like a fact where 2% of people that started the agency, it's like 1 to 2% actually end up becoming agents. And that's. And that's not a thing of like, oh, my God, you have to take this crazy rocket science test to become an agent. And that's why, that's why the numbers are so low. It's that most people don't want to be Agents. But every production and studio require one year of agency work. So the way I looked at it, and I was fortunate where I knew I wanted to be an agent. So while everybody else had kind of one foot out the door, I was like, I got two feet in the door. I know I'm going to be here and all the people around me are going to leave and go on to do cool things. So I might as well just be a super nice guy because being a dick is not going to serve me any good because hopefully one day they're all in, you know, buyer. You know, buyer chairs where they can pay my clients and I get a commission off of that. So I want them to like me to return my phone call and all that type of stuff. And that's stuff that you've probably heard a lot of people say. But, you know, I've done happy hours at uta. We throw a big holiday party for people, you know, across the agency and, you know, try to do some summer events here and there. So, you know, I think it's. It's as welcoming as you make it. And if you reach out, a lot of people are playing chicken, you know, where you'll be setting a meeting if you're an assistant. And it just takes one person to be, you know, loop everybody out, email that assistant, say, hey, we should grab drinks sometime. Here's my number. Text me. [00:53:47] Speaker C: That's all you. That's all you need. [00:53:49] Speaker A: That's. That's all it takes. And it's not going to work with everybody. And I'm not saying every single person that you email you need to do it with, but you'd be surprised with how just trying to do that once a week. Just once a week. If you could set up a new coffee once a week, that's 52 new coffees in a year. That's a lot of coffees. [00:54:16] Speaker C: Yep. [00:54:16] Speaker A: It's not. It's 50. That's a lot of new coffees as well. So, you know, and one is like the bare, bare minimum. Right. So if you just try to break it down that way and don't get so overwhelmed by. Because I do it, like to not get overwhelmed, I also think is like, you're not pushing yourself enough, where it's like, yeah, you're going to get overwhelmed. Am I meeting enough people? Am I doing the right thing? You know, who else should I be meeting? So I think it's a balance, and I think that that stress of am I doing the right things? Will be tamed by you taking that action. Of doing the coffees and then you'd be shocked. Like, you know, there are so many people that, you know, I hit up now that have all came from doing just the simple work drinks. And now it's been like a two year relationship. And I, you know, I throw comedy shows with, with my best friend Griffin and our other good friend Luke Binko. And that's always super fun where I have this other touch point where I get to invite people to do that stuff. So I'd also say as like a young professional is like try to do something that differentiates yourself, that tries to bring people together. Right. Because I like that. Oh, are you going to know his comedy show? You know, like, I love that, you know, and I think that it's a, it's a really good way to get your name out there in a casual way where, you know, people are talking about you and hopefully a good lighting where they're not talking about like, oh, what a shitty comedy show, but like, oh, what a great comedy show. And you know, they, they know that by going to that comedy show they're also gonna see people that they know, but they're also gonna meet a few great people that they didn't know. Yeah, and if anybody knows that best, you guys know that best. So similar to how you guys are trying to cultivate a community, I'm trying to do that as well. And I'd recommend that anybody that's moving to LA, whether it's a 10 person book club, a comedy show that you throw once a week, or it's a super big short film festival, like 50 50, try to do something that helps differentiate you amongst your peers, where you are actively bringing people together. [00:56:35] Speaker C: It's fantastic advice. The only thing that I wanted to hop onto with your advice is just that, I mean, I found one thing when I worked in representation. I found that I would specifically try to curate my coffees into what I'm actually interested in. You know, like, instead of just being like, okay, this is a person and we've been communicating a lot, I should grab coffee with them. This is a person who works at X Company that I'm interested in or the assistant to this artist who I admire or whatever it is, you know. So like, I think eventually trying to curate your coffees into the area that you want to go, especially when you're, you know, at the beginning of the, of your career, I, I find is really helpful. You're, you're speaking so many facts right now. It's, it's really, it's really amazing how, how knowledgeable you are about, you know, the, the macro and the micro. It's, it's really, really helpful. [00:57:26] Speaker B: I, I think Wyatt just to kind of like. Because I, I completely agree about being super intentional with who you're meeting and like, feeling realistic about, like, who you're getting coffees with to make sure that you can actually nurture those relationships. But I think that in Noah's case, like, in the agency world, there is something to getting coffee with literally everyone. Because by doing that, hey, the email just came in being like, do you know anyone at this company? And you're like, wait a second, I actually do. Yeah, I got coffee with Wyatt three years ago. [00:58:03] Speaker C: Exactly. But now, you know, you've seen them in real life in their face. Like, that's. That we're not saying that you need to, like, you know, have a long term, like, you know, in depth relationship with them. But now if I'm going to sell a script and I go to, you know, the six studios or whatever, and one of them, there's an exec there that I got coffee with or I've got coffee with twice, I have a better chance of them responding to what I'm selling. You know, Like, I think that's really important too. So it's about, it's about this balance, I would say, because I agree I do oftentimes get coffee with people who I know they're people I should know. Not that I want to go and work for their company one day, you know, but I think it's. It's that balance, you know, and I. [00:58:47] Speaker A: Also think it's also a balance of, you know, not making it so transactional as well. And I think that that comes with time as well. [00:58:57] Speaker B: How do you, how do you actually do that? [00:58:59] Speaker A: You know, I think that there has to, you know, obviously there are times or especially when you're. When you're negotiating and you're closing a business deal, obviously get, you know, there can be. There are elements of it being transactional that are actually positive. But I also think that being the convert, like the way you set up the conversation, the way you frame the conversation is not, you know, because I also get it from like the. As like an agency, like we, you know, because we are the agency and we have a lot of resources. People are, you know, sometimes hitting me up. You have this number or this email or this this or that. And I'm always down to help. I think it's smart to help. I rarely tell people no unless it's like, egregious, And I, like, just can't do it for, like, business reasons because it's like, dude, I can't send you Chris Pratt's number. I'm not allowed to do that. But more of an and. And I think that there's a way to go about it where you're just trying to get to know the person. You're not trying to know what they do. You're not trying to be like, who's your boss? And will you be successful one day? If you're not going to be successful, then why am I talking to you? Like, don't be a. But, you know, there are a lot of people that will also do a lot of different things in and without the industry. And I think that I can say this for all three of us again, a reason why I went to Michigan, the reason why I got into this business is because I was just generally curious about people and wanted to connect with people. So I think coming from that perspective and just genuinely caring about who they are, what they're trying to accomplish, I don't know why this scratches my itch, but I love hearing about what somebody wants to do and then connecting them with somebody else that I think can be helpful. Yeah, I love making those three person group chats. [01:01:00] Speaker C: You're connecting the dots, dude. Literally. And it seems like that's very authentic to me because from what we've heard, you've always had a gravitation towards doing that. [01:01:11] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think that also going into it being like, not how can this person help me, but how can I help this person and being curious about that person and figuring out what that person needs or wants will ultimately one day help you. You don't know how it's going to happen. The line will be squiggly. It's not going to be, I give you this, you give me that. It's not going to be like that. But the idea of let me just see what this person is all about, is this a cool person that I want to be friends with and if they are great, let me see how I can help them and it will ultimately all work out. And I think that's, that's the vibe. Now, I'm not saying that's the vibe that you, the listener necessarily need to go through, because you're your own person, you make your own choices. But, you know, that's the vibe that, you know, I've tried to, that I've tried to go into all of my different dinners, coffees, drinks, you know, they're I'll give one more example because I'm just blabbering here, but, you know, I went to, I went to the. Went to these drinks with these people that work at another agency. It's not like we're gonna. Or I have friends that work at CA&WME. It's not like, oh, let's like, oh, that's my enemy. It's like, well, one day I know that person is probably like, not going to be an agent and they're going to be buyers as well. So I'd also say, like, don't just be friends with people at your company. Be friends with people across the industries that work at different production companies that work with at different agencies, because you never know where they're going to end up. And people are also agents at one agency. And as you've seen a lot of people leave those agencies and go to different agencies. So you never know when that person is going to be your enemy and then your co worker. So always try to come from a place of respect and kindness. And I think that in the long run it will. It will get you a long way. Not to sound too preachy. So you're. [01:03:12] Speaker B: You're graduating Michigan and I assume the UTA offer was on the table. [01:03:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It wasn't like you were, you were. [01:03:22] Speaker B: Interning there summers previous to or what? Okay, yeah. [01:03:25] Speaker A: Interned the summer before. [01:03:27] Speaker B: And that internship that summer before, was that like an aha moment for you? Of like, wow, this is the place I need to be. [01:03:37] Speaker A: I won't forget this because it was kind of. It was definitely memorable for me as an intern where I was the only intern there. It was lunchtime. UTA was catering lunch. At the time I got my lunch, I saw a lot of agents sitting in the courtyard. And I was like, okay, all right, now you have a choice. I vividly remember exactly where I was standing holding my lunch. I was like, okay, you can go be a bitch and you can go sit by yourself and hide. [01:04:10] Speaker C: It's like the high school cafeteria. [01:04:12] Speaker A: It's like your intern not even sit outside. Like, you go, like, literally hide in, like, where the interns were supposed to be in like, UTAU and like this office that nobody would come and bother you at. Or you can make the most of why you came here and you can go sit at this table of agents that, like, you can ask them questions that. And I was like, okay, I'd like to muster up the courage. I like, I, like, obviously scanned the room. I was like, I saw some. Like, I saw, like, I I saw, I saw five, like older looking partners and I was like, I'm probably gonna stay away from that. I don't have to go, I don't have to go to the deep end, but let me just get into the water. And then I saw like five younger agents, like all sitting at a table. I saw the open chair and I was like, I beeline to it and I just said, hey guys, I'm Noah, I'm an intern. Can I sit with you? And they were all super lovely. It was Alyssa, Lance, Spencer, Reese, this guy Jeff Baker that used to be an agent at uta, then left to start his own company. And this other TV led agent Miller at. And they all could have not been nicer and super sweet. And I think. [01:05:25] Speaker B: How old were you? [01:05:26] Speaker A: This was. [01:05:26] Speaker B: This was 60. [01:05:27] Speaker A: I was 20. I was 20. And I know as like a there are night there are 18 and 19 year olds that are making hundreds of millions of dollars on YouTube and Instagram where they're like, you were nervous to like introduce yourself, but like, for the kid that is nervous to go up to like a group of like 5 inch and agents and introduce themselves, coming from somebody who is naturally outgoing and like wants to meet people, it's still nerve wracking. But again, I think that Jeremy, my former boss, said this when he was talking to a group of interns. And the difference between being successful and not being successful, a lot of the time comes down to just 15 seconds, right? Where was I willing to sit in that 15 seconds of discomfort of me saying, hi, I'm Noah, I'm an intern, Can I sit with you? And then looking up and being like, yeah, sure, right. So because I was able to sit in those 15 seconds of discomfort, I was able to have an amazing lunch. And all of those agents emailed the head of HR being like, who's this intern? He was great. He came and sat down with us. We should definitely have him back, right? But I could have not sat in those 15 seconds, took the easy way out and just got inside by myself. So going back to the 5050 pod is you come to 5050 show like everybody should, and you see a talented filmmaker who just won the big award and you're like, should I go say hi? I don't know, go sit in that 10, 15 seconds of discomfort and you'd be shocked at the amount of doors that are able to be open for you. [01:07:15] Speaker B: And. And speaking from the filmmaker side here we are itching for that. [01:07:22] Speaker A: Totally. [01:07:23] Speaker B: It is. Are you kidding? Like someone From UTA walking up to us, Fred has won this trophy, and I'm like, I. I really hope someone comes up to talk to me. And I'm scared and nervous, too, because there are a lot of people here and a lot of business people. Like, it's a very mutual thing, you know? [01:07:40] Speaker A: Right. [01:07:42] Speaker B: So it's on both sides, is all I'm saying. [01:07:44] Speaker C: No, it's been such a privilege having you on the podcast. I do just have one. Because you are referencing so many leaders and thinkers who you look up to and admire and read. I'm curious if. If there's anybody. Any books or anything you want us to, like, link in the. In the bottom of the podcast, things that have been inspiring to you that you think could help someone who's five years younger than you? [01:08:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that for somebody who's five years younger than me, I think that. And this is something that I have to do all the time, is you have to be a student. Right. You don't want to just be a bullshitter. Right. And sometimes you got to be able to bullshit, but you also want to know what you're talking about, because it also gives you a lot more credibility when you're having these conversations. You don't want to just skate by. And so I think that reading the books and listening to podcasts are super important. And I would say that if you're coming into entertainment, there's a few books that you definitely have to read. Everybody recommends them. It's CAA Powerhouse, where it talks about the. How CA was started and became what it is today. I think it's the new version of the mail room. So if you want to listen about the greats, Geffen, well, Ovitz and Meyer, also in ca, but in the mail room, you also learn about how the William Morris Agency was started as well. And so you read the Mailroom, which is about the creation of William Morris Agency, essentially. Then you read CA Powerhouse, which is about the creation of ca, but also the entertainment industry at large. I think that you listen to. Who is Mike Ovitz? I think you got to read Barry Diller's new book, I just started that. I just finished Bob Iger's book Ride of a Lifetime, which is great. And I think the. The cool thing about all of these books as well, as a young professional is you can definitely stress yourself out over certain things. But then you read the book and you're like, wow, you know, Bob, Bob, like. Like, I can just call him Bob, like. Like Mr. Iger, you know, accomplished, like, went through all of this, you know, in terms of getting promoted to the Disney CEO, you know. You know, a board that literally didn't want to make him CEO. You had, you know, people within the board that were voting against them. It's not like, you know, we know. You know, Bob Iger is, like, one of the greatest CEOs of, you know, of our generation, but it wasn't like that when he first got started. It's not like everybody was like, come on, we can't wait to have you. Right? So you read that, and you're like, oh, my God. Like, I didn't realize he had it so hard before he got the position. So I think it's a reminder that everybody that you're reading about that you would admire or that you aspire to be, it's like they went through some fucking hell. David Geffen talks about losing clients himself, where it's like, oh, like, David Geffen can lose clients and still be as successful. Like, I'm gonna lose clients as well. So when it happens to you, it's not like the whole world's gonna fall apart. It's, oh, this is what happened to the greats. But the greats kept pushing, so I need to keep pushing. You know, you listen to. You know, if you listen to who is Mike Ovitz, like, you would learn about. You know, there was a lot of internal dynamics. Like, it's. It's not like everybody was tickety poo in CAA and everybody was singing Kubaya in all of those board meetings. Like, no, they had to go through some shit to get to where they are. And I think that it's. It's a lesson in resilience, in that if you're going to be part of this, you got to remind yourself that the people before you that are the leaders of it didn't have it easy, and they had to grind. And if you want to make it there, too, you're going to have to grind as well, and it's not going to be easy. And it's a reminder that when stuff doesn't go your way, it didn't just happen to you. And it's not just happening to you. It's happened to every single successful person. I think that that's been super helpful for me and being able to reference certain situations that have happened to other people and other great leaders that, you know, I aspire to be. It's. It's very helpful for me as somebody that, you know, wants to be a great leader in this industry. [01:12:30] Speaker C: We could go so many directions with this, but I want to be conscious of time. And it really, like, this is one of those interviews that after conducting it, I'm just going to be thinking about it for the rest of the day. I know, and I hope that the listeners will take something from this that they'll be chewing on for the rest of their day, because it is a really great conversation that we've just had. So thank you for being so selfless with your time and your knowledge, and you really did leave it all out on the court. So appreciate it. [01:13:01] Speaker B: And thank you for continuing to support us, man, with the festival of 5050 all. Come on, man. [01:13:07] Speaker A: Yeah, No, I love it. I think what you guys are doing are great. And thanks for stroking my ego and making me feel like I'm important enough to be on your podcast. So I. I really appreciate it, guys. [01:13:17] Speaker C: Of course, dude. Thanks, man. [01:13:20] Speaker A: See ya. [01:13:20] Speaker C: See ya. [01:13:26] Speaker B: Did you learn something? Unlike your mom. Did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging. Make sure you follow us at the 5050Fest on Instagram and give us five stars, because. Why not? Why not subscribe? Why not? You know why not? Okay, bye.