Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I interviewed Kevin o' Leary for Marty supreme, and I went to his hotel room. He was like. He took me up to the. We were in the elevator together, and his wife was there, and he was eating breakfast, and he all of a sudden starts setting up a tripod with a camera. And this was before we started the interview.
And he was. He wanted to put a mic on me, or he did put a mic on me, and he was like, I'm going to film this for my socials, if that's all right. And this has never happened to me. In my five years of working at Variety, I've never had an interview subject also record the interview.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: I'm Luke Steinfeld.
[00:00:42] Speaker C: And I'm Wyatt Sarkisian.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: We made the 5050 podcast to support you on your filmmaking journey.
[00:00:47] Speaker C: 50% business, 50% creative.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Every Tuesday, a new how to.
[00:00:51] Speaker C: That was the voice of Ethan Schanfeld. Ethan's path was always pointed towards being a professional journalist. He's been part of school newspapers, campus radio, even went to one of the best university journalism programs out there. And since graduating, he's done just that. Ethan has gone on to interview people like Ben Stiller, Miley Cyrus, Steve Lacy, Benny Safdie. The list goes on and on.
So how does Ethan manage to keep his cool during these interviews and find a unique lens on celebs that are consistently living in the public eye? Well, you've come to the right place, because today we flipped the script on Ethan and interview him about what it's like to be a TV reporter at Variety. Enjoy the episode.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: It's funny because when people ask me, like, oh, did you always want to go into journalism? I say, no, that, like, I sort of fell into it by accident. And then they're like, oh, where'd you go to school? I'm like, I went to journalism school. Like, oh, what'd you do in high school? I'm like, I was the editor of our school paper. Like, I guess I have been doing journalism for a. But.
But, like, truthfully, even. Even up until I basically graduated from journalism school, I did not think I was going to become a journalist. Interesting.
[00:02:09] Speaker B: Was it just because you, like, had always enjoyed it and never thought anything more than that of, like, I'm not thinking about this as, like, a job. I just really enjoy being the editor in chief in high school and going to journalism school.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: I think that part of it was, like, being, like, not viewing it as a sustainable career path.
But there's also just this joke within the Northwestern Journalism School that nobody becomes a journalist so out of my entire friend group in that school, I. I'm the only person that became a journalist. Like, people went into, really, marketing, tech, private equity, consulting. Yeah.
[00:02:49] Speaker C: I mean, from what I have heard, it's a pretty legendary journal, journalism school, like, for. For people who want to be journalists. They're like. It's like Northwestern, go to Northwestern. Is that. I feel like that checks out.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: Yeah, it definitely is.
And that is what drew me to the school was I liked writing. So, you know. But it's funny, it's the only school I applied to with a journalism major, because every other school I applied to, they don't have journalism schools for undergrad. And so I just as easily could have gone into another path.
But it's a good.
It's like when I joined Variety, you get there and you realize, like, a quarter of the newsroom went to Northwestern. And I think that's true of a lot of newsrooms. So there definitely is that. It has that reputation for a reason. But it also is funny. You have people who take journalism classes all day, and they're like, yeah, I think I want to go into banking.
[00:03:38] Speaker C: Right, Right. Why are you here?
[00:03:41] Speaker B: What are you doing?
[00:03:41] Speaker C: What was the. Because I know you grew up in la.
What was the.
What was your view of, like, the entertainment industry? And did you ever see those two things intersecting, like, with. Now you're at one, you know, one of the leading entertainment news magazines, websites? So I'm curious about that.
[00:04:00] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I think growing up, I didn't think of it as anything abnormal, just because you grow up and, like, your friends, parents are in the industry, and it's happening in your backyard.
And so I think the reason why I wanted to go into this was more just as a fan. Like, I loved watching television, and I was a big music person, so I thought I was gonna go into the music industry.
But it is interesting. It's like, you go to college, you meet other people from D.C. and it's like, politics is there, Hollywood? It's like, my friend is a senator. And to me, that's way more weird. But to them, it's like, the same for us.
[00:04:43] Speaker C: Right. So you kind of found that that was your angle since you grew up here. Sort of tangential to the industry. Seeing friends, parents in the industry, seeing it kind of in your backyard. You were like, okay, this is something that I'm familiar with. This is something that I could see myself being involved with someday.
[00:04:59] Speaker A: I think it was more just like, that was what I felt equipped and passionate to write about.
I have zero interest in doing political journalism.
You know, like, when I was in college, I would get assigned. I worked at magazines and radio stations in college. And, you know, I'd have to go and write about the opening of a fried chicken place or something. And like, that stuff's fun, but if I ever had to like cover a congressional race or, you know, be a White House correspondent, that, that would, that would not be fun.
[00:05:32] Speaker C: It's a dangerous job these days, too.
[00:05:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:36] Speaker B: I mean, in school, did you have.
Aside from the local shop opening or whatever this is, like, were there articles or stories that you wrote where it really clicked of like, oh, man, I'm profiling this filmmaker on campus, or I'm profiling this musician on campus. And like, this is what I want to be doing.
[00:05:54] Speaker A: I worked at the radio station and hosted like a rock Hour.
And then with that, we got to cover a lot of concerts in Chicago. So I would go down with like a press pass when I was a sophomore.
Yeah. See, I would just. Honestly, people just use it to see bands that they want to see, and then you'd write like a concert review.
Very few people read these things, I'm sure.
But that was sort of what got me into it.
And then when I was a. A senior in college, I believe I had a professor who encouraged me. Maybe. Maybe I was a junior. It was like around the pandemic, I had a professor who encouraged me to just pitch editors, which I honestly hadn't really considered as a possibility.
And you just send out pitches into the void. Like you're emailing editors at the Washington Post, at Rolling Stone, and for every 150 emails, you're maybe getting one email back saying, this is going to be a polite pass. And that's like the best email to receive. They read my pitch.
And then I got lucky and ended up getting. I think my first story was at Nylon magazine, which is like a fashion magazine, oddly enough.
And then once you get one clip, it's a lot easier to get other clips because then you email editors and you're like, I've written for Nylon magazine.
And then I ended writing a couple album reviews for Pitchfork, which I think that was the moment where I was like, this is really cool and accessible in a way that I didn't think it could ever be.
I never would have imagined, even a month before pitching Pitchfork, that I would have ever been able to write for them.
[00:07:42] Speaker B: What goes into a pitch email? Like, what is that pitch?
[00:07:48] Speaker A: So now being on the other side of things, where I receive hundreds of pitches per day. I will say the best pitch you could send is like two sentences.
Hi, editor, I'm so and so I want to write about this diluted into one sentence. And then here's why I'm the best person to write about it. So I want to write about halal carts in New York City. I worked at a halal cart for five years and I research street food. That's a very stupid example. But like, you know, it's basically like, what's your idea and why should you be the one commissioned for this?
[00:08:29] Speaker C: And the two sentence part of it is kind of like, it's enough to like establish credibility and intrigue, but it's not like overdoing it and kind of leaves them wanting more in a way.
[00:08:42] Speaker A: I think so, because I think that people are reading emails all day long and so if they can read something in 30 seconds and understand what it is, then they're way more likely to respond to you. Whereas, like, if you open an email and it's three paragraphs, it's like, I'm going to get to that later. And then you won't, of course.
[00:08:58] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: But sometimes, like with, with, with Pitchfork, I believe they wanted you to essentially summarize your thoughts. If you were pitching an album review, which is what I was doing. They wanted you to like summarize your thoughts on the album in the pitch. So you're kind of like sampling what your review is gonna sound like. So every place is different. But, you know, all these freelance budgets have been slashed. You know, even six years ago when I was pitching, it was very hard, but I mean, it was definitely easier than it is now. I do not envy freelance journalists now
[00:09:35] Speaker B: with like a. I guess it's called like a freelance pitch. Maybe back in the day, like, how did that commission structure actually work? Is it like you send this pitch email, you're like, here's my two sentence idea. And then let's say they reply being like, yeah, this is cool.
[00:09:54] Speaker C: Do they like ask for samples of your work because they don't know that you can actually write it.
Is there that sort of process?
[00:10:04] Speaker A: Yeah, you're typically sending. I used to pitch people and I would just hyperlink stories that I had already published. Ethan Shanfeld, you know, I've written for Nylon, Hyperlink that story, you know, comma, Pitchfork, hyperlink that. So if they are going to commission you, I'm sure they do want to read your work.
But I think it also depends on the intensity of the story.
You know, I used to write really sort of dumb Internet stories. In college, like, I wrote something for some magazine that no longer exists about, like, Johnny Knoxville from Jackass being, like, a style icon.
And it's like, you know, what qualifications do you really need to write about that?
But, yeah, I mean, I think you just want to basically just say what your idea is in the clearest possible way, and then why you should be the one to write it. I also think, like, 90% of the job, as with any job, especially in our field of Hollywood, is relationships. So it's like, once you write for an editor, they trust you, and hopefully they trust you, and you're able to, like, you know, you're able to pitch them without the most clean pitch. But just like, I'm thinking about this idea. What do you think? And hopefully you can work together on stuff like that because it's such a.
[00:11:26] Speaker B: Like, a foreign thing, at least for me, of, like, the process of this, you know, so it's, like, interesting to hear.
And I think there are a bunch of different ways to take it, like, specifically with, like, the collaboration between a writer and an editor, you know, and, like, if they act as, like, a sounding, like, when you do pitch, like, a loose pitch or something to your editor, are they like, oh, this is horrible. Is it. Are they, like, super, super specific with notes, or is it more of just like, yeah, okay, and, like, you just go do the thing? Is it complete free range for you
[00:11:55] Speaker A: if you're a freelancer? It's.
I think it depends on your relationship with the editor and your experience working at that publication. So, like, we have freelancers at Variety.
Not many, but we have. We have some that cover television. And, like, they know the drill. They've worked with us for a while. So it's like, if. And I don't commission any stories, so I'm not, like, I don't work with the freelancers directly, but if they. I'm sure they are talking to our editor, being like, I want to cover this show that is on AMC or whatever. And I'm sure our editor with some of these freelancers is just like, yeah, go for it. Like, you know what to do. You're going to get the talent. They have relations. They have an independent relationship with the publicists of the show or the publicists representing the talent.
So it totally varies. I'm also, at this point, pretty far removed from that world.
And in the. In the time that I was pitching freelance and now substack became such a big thing, and I'm sure that a lot of the people who were freelancing, are now, you know, have started their own blogs. And not that blogs hadn't existed, but just this, like, subscriber model that became so popular.
[00:13:11] Speaker B: When you're going through pitches, and I promise is the last question about freelance stuff, but when you at Variety are going through these pitches, are people now linking their substacks rather than like, hey, here's my article with Pitchfork.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: Oh, that's a good question.
I wouldn't know, to be honest, but I would not be surprised.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: Okay, so then let's.
Let's move away from the freelance stuff. What exactly are you. What are you doing now? Like, what is your current position?
[00:13:41] Speaker A: So I'm a TV reporter, which, when I tell people I'm a TV reporter, a lot of times they think that I'm on television.
[00:13:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I'm not on television.
[00:13:49] Speaker C: Yeah, you're like, on cnn, the weather.
[00:13:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:53] Speaker A: I write about television. So, you know, I have done things. It's like, the job ranges from covering a show like Severance, where when season two comes out, we have a handful of reporters who are going to cover that show. And you're figuring out what type of coverage you want, what talent you want to talk to, whether you're going to recap the episodes or, you know, you're going to write a column about something.
And then there's a part of my job that's just news. So you log on in the morning and you don't really know what the day is going to look like. So people could die.
Shows get picked up, there's casting announcements, we get press releases.
Part of the job is hopefully getting scoops. So meeting with agents and sources and trying to break news and. Yeah, I told Wyatt this before.
It's just funny, considering the job title as TV reporter.
We're such a skeleton crew at Variety that you could really be covering anything.
I sat in court for two months covering the Diddy trial last year, so that was certainly not in my job description. But they needed somebody to do it, and that was what I did. So that became my job for a good part of the year.
[00:15:24] Speaker C: Crazy. Yeah. It also seems like you write about music and film just as much as TV to some extent, or at least those are the articles that I've read of yours.
There's a lot of sort of directions that we could go with this because you obviously have such a unique angle, and you kind of mentioned talking to agents and people to try to get scoops and everything. What is, like your.
I want to ask, like, what's your Favorite type of article to write.
[00:15:54] Speaker A: I think my favorite part of the job is profiling people. So anytime I get to have lunch with somebody and sit down for an hour and go home and I have two weeks to write a story about them, that's my favorite type of thing.
I don't love doing red carpets. That's, I find to be the most stressful.
There are. There are people who are very good at that.
I don't think I'm not good at it, but it's not my skill set.
It's a totally different thing.
But now people who signed up to be writers and reporters, there's this whole pivot to video thing that's coming back. And so you have like 70 year old film critics who have been writing for, you know, the New Yorker for decades who are now being put on video, like vertical video being like, oh, can you break down your five favorite movies? So it's like journalists are now being asked to do things that they're not necessarily comfortable with.
And all respect to Richard Brody, who is actually very good at the vertical video thing, but that's just my example. So.
So all that is to say I don't love doing that sort of thing, but the job now calls for it.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: So with a profile, like you said, a show like Severance comes out and you start looking at who you want to, I assume, profile and like, can you take us through that process and, and how. I assume you probably build a list out of talent. Who are you coordinating with? How does that actually work?
[00:17:37] Speaker A: Work, yeah. So this is getting a little bit in the weeds. So let me know if this is totally boring. No, but I would say when a project is coming out, so either a film or a TV show, there's kind of like two different types of interviews, at least in my head. And one of them is we call them postmortems. So episode six of Severance, let's say Brit Lauer has a big role in that episode. Her character has a turning point or something.
The postmortem is we're going to interview Britt Lauer about that episode and more than likely it's going to be formatted like a Q and A. It's an interview that's very tightly focused around one thing. With a film, it might be interviewing the director of backrooms, just asking him questions about the film.
And then there's like your profile, which is more of a personality piece. So you're, you're trying to write about somebody's career or their life or this phase of their Career in a way that feels a little bit more writerly.
You know, like, I like writing. I like reading profiles that are written by certain journalists, Right? So, like Katie Weaver, who now I think is at the Atlantic. Like, I'll read any profile of anybody that's written by her because she's an amazing profiler.
And so that typically will take a little bit more time.
We have a print magazine, which not everybody has, but so, like, we, you know, a cover story for Variety is going to be a.
A profile or at least a longer sort of deeper glimpse into who somebody is. And so those are the most fun for me, which, like, talking about severance, I did a cover story on Ben Stiller and Adam Scott last year.
And that was cool because you get to sit down with them and talk about more than just how you directed this one episode. You're talking about, you know, them as artists and how they got here. And you can. You have more. More creative freedom.
[00:19:58] Speaker C: Was that so fun?
[00:20:00] Speaker B: So fun. So fun. Was. Did they. Did they both come in at the same time? Was it a split? Like, you had an hour with each.
[00:20:08] Speaker A: That one in particular, We.
We met at a. An Italian restaurant.
It was like, on the west side highway in New York. I think it was, like, a block from Ben Stiller's production company.
And I think we met at, like, 4pm and I looked up the place to see how to get there, and it didn't even open until 5.
So I was like, he must have some connection here. There's nobody in the restaurant.
And they were both there. When I. When I saw.
[00:20:41] Speaker C: He's like, you come to me. You come to my home base.
[00:20:44] Speaker A: Yeah, if only I could open up a restaurant an hour early.
[00:20:49] Speaker C: It's like his restaurant or something. Yeah.
[00:20:51] Speaker A: Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised.
[00:20:52] Speaker B: Come sit in the kitchen. Come in the back here. No one's here. No one's at these other tables.
[00:20:57] Speaker C: Yeah, nobody's here. Nobody's cooking.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: Don't worry. Come here. Come back here. Sit in the parking lot.
Sit in the bread.
[00:21:04] Speaker C: The bread basement.
We got the meats downstairs, you know.
[00:21:09] Speaker B: Yeah. There's no one upstairs. Come here.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm like, I'm good. I'm gonna. I'm gonna stay up here.
[00:21:14] Speaker B: So you show up early, and they're both already there.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: They were both there. They were talking.
And this goes into a whole other topic, which is just, like, how to interview people. But I find that you can get a much better interview if you don't hit record immediately. So, you know, you sit down and you're talking with them for 10 minutes and then you go, okay, do you mind if I hit record or whatever? And so, like, you're hopefully fine.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: Were you losing your mind a little bit? Was it like, holy shit, that's Ben Stiller. Like, I mean, both and Adam Scott.
[00:21:53] Speaker C: Are you used to it at this point and that's okay to say? Yes. Like, you obviously are interviewing a bunch of cool people all the time, I
[00:22:01] Speaker A: have to say, and this is 100% truthful. And it's not in a. It's not in a jaded way at all. At least that's not how I view it. I really don't often get starstruck because I think I'm so focused on, like, you're in work mode.
[00:22:18] Speaker C: Yep. Yeah, yeah.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: So you're like, I am go. I'm sitting down with these people. I need to, I need to ask certain questions. I need to make sure that I pace the interview correctly so that we get to this topic. I need to, you know, be loose enough so that we can take the conversation in different ways.
And so you're really like, not even processing who you're talking to that much, which makes the job easier. But there have been a couple times, you know, where I've been where I've had like, not like an out of body moment where you're like, sure, I'm talking to so and so.
[00:22:52] Speaker B: But it sounds like it's the prep, you know, and we've. With 50, 50, we've had a couple familiar faces, you know, that are like, wow, like, that's that person. But a lot of times you kind of lean on the prep to be able to stay in work mode, you know, and even in those pauses occasionally and you're looking at them, it's like, holy shit, that's this person. But like, let's go to the next question here, you know. So can you talk about your prep process?
[00:23:19] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I think you nailed it. I always think about it as like, you want to be. You want to be prepared enough.
You want to be so prepared that you can essentially throw away all the preparation in the moment and be able to do that. So that's especially true when you're moderating panels or doing something live in front of an audience is like, you do so much prep and you have these parts of questions so that when you get there, you don't have to look at the questions.
[00:23:51] Speaker C: You can be super present and flow where the conversation goes.
[00:23:55] Speaker A: Right, right. And so, you know, it's a skill that you have to learn. Obviously, the two of you have to do that for this podcast, but you also want to be curious. And so you want to know a lot about the person that you're interviewing, but you don't want to.
You don't want to assume that the reader or the listener knows as much as you do. So, like, you want to be able to ask questions that might seem to you like they're silly or basic, but, you know, like, not everybody who reads a Miley Cyrus magazine story, watched all of Hannah Montana and knows all of her music catalog and knows the backstory of her relationship with her dad. So, like, you also have to consider your audience for sure.
[00:24:47] Speaker B: So when constructing the severance, you know, the piece, the. The COVID that profile, like, what are you. Are you digging it? Are you watching every episode ever? You know, are you. Are you looking at their own history as actors and filmmakers? Like, how are you. I guess, just using the construction of this profile, like, as the example, you know?
[00:25:13] Speaker A: Sure. That one was a little easier for me because I'm such a big fan of severance. It's like something that I already.
[00:25:20] Speaker C: Yeah, I see. It should be mentioned that you've been sipping out of a Lumen mug for this whole interview.
[00:25:25] Speaker A: Yes, exactly.
Good. Good eye.
So that one was coming in as, like, somebody who really. I didn't have to do that much research, but I think that another interesting thing about interviewing people is not just researching their career and their IMDb page and, you know, reading other interviews they've done, but it's, like, kind of understanding what type of interview they are. So, like with Ben Stiller, he is somebody who talks very fast and, like, he almost doesn't finish his sentences. Like, if you ask him a question, he just, like, goes and goes and goes.
And so as an interviewer, you need a different approach to somebody like that than you do for somebody who gives very short, you know, one sentence answers. And so being prepared in that sense is also very helpful.
[00:26:26] Speaker C: It's so funny. I feel like Luke and I did two records yesterday, and I feel like we had, like, both of those ends of the spectrum, you know, and it's hard.
[00:26:34] Speaker B: Completely.
[00:26:35] Speaker C: Yeah, it's super hard.
[00:26:36] Speaker A: It's hard to interview.
It's hard to interview somebody who does not ramble. And it's also hard to interview somebody who does ramble.
[00:26:46] Speaker C: Totally.
[00:26:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:48] Speaker B: So you're in this. You're in this Italian restaurant at 4pm an hour early. They're both in there.
You're not at all stunned. You're just like, Work mode, shake their hands, sit down for 10 minutes before you hit record.
Once you hit record, are you looking at. First of all, what do you record on? Is it just your phone? Do you have, like, an actual tape recorder?
[00:27:09] Speaker A: I have a. So I use my phone. I'm trying to see if it's, like, on my desk right now.
I don't think so.
It's like, I use my phone and this little thing that's like that big. It's like a digital tape recorder, just like, as a backup. Because this has, luckily, knock on wood, never happened to me. But it is the worst nightmare to, like, leave an interview and realize that you haven't been recording or. Oh, yeah, of course the recording or whatever. So I.
With. With longer things. I do not leave that up to chance.
[00:27:41] Speaker B: And you said with prep, like, I mean, that. That balance of, like, also being curious in the moment and allowing yourself to be. Because of course, that's where, like, at least for us, the most fruitful conversations happen on the podcast is when we kind of like, you said, forget the prep. And it's like, wait, we're in this moment. Like, let's. That's actually really interesting. Let's talk about that instead.
Do you find yourself doing that, or are you very much just like, we're going here, then we have to hit that. And I guess is that, you know, your. Your boss telling you, like, you got to hit these points for the COVID story.
[00:28:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So I. It can be like that. It depends on. On the subject. I think that there's.
I like to think of big interviews like that as like, for example, the big one that I recently did was Miley Cyrus.
And you want to think about the topics that you need to ask about, whether that's because it's in the news or because they haven't addressed it before or because that's like, the thing that everybody cares about, or. It's a hard question.
You have to think about those things as, like, how do I build up to that and also pace the interview so that I make sure that we're getting to those things and that you're building a foundation of trust for that.
[00:29:04] Speaker C: Yeah, huge.
[00:29:06] Speaker A: So you would never sit down with somebody and be like, you know, hit record.
[00:29:10] Speaker C: I'd like to talk about you and your dad.
Yeah, totally.
[00:29:15] Speaker A: And so I.
This is not like a, you know, one size fits all rule, but I like to think of a lot of interviews as you want to get to those tough topics. If there are tough topics around, like, the 75% mark and so, like, I think of an interview as, like, building to that point and then coasting down at the end totally. Because you don't want somebody to leave an interview feeling uncomfortable or, like, icky about anything.
You also want to give yourself enough time in case they do end up really opening up in a way that you didn't expect.
And so there's curveballs all the time. And so part of the job is editing yourself during the interview.
So, like, you have to kind of keep an eye on the clock and kind of keep an eye on your questions and realizing, like, you know, are they going to pull the talent early? Am I sensing, like, they don't want to talk about this? So let's find an off ramp and try to build up to it in another way.
But, you know, it's. It's all a process of learning how to do that. There's certainly been interviews that I've done in my, you know, short career where I've left and been, like, kicking myself because I, you know, I didn't ask about that.
And to your point, Luke, about the editor, sometimes I've interviewed people where, you know, you want to ask your editor ahead of time, like, are there things that you need me to ask about? Because the worst thing is filing a story and then getting the slack message, like, did you ask about Trump or did you. Did you ask about this?
[00:31:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:03] Speaker A: And you're like, no, I did not.
So to be able to, like, understand what your editor wants ahead of time is.
Can only help.
[00:31:12] Speaker B: Regarding, like you mentioned, you know, if their team pulls them early.
How often are you actually one on one with these people or is a publicist. There is a team there. And in the case that someone is watching, how are. How. I mean, how do you keep that, like, sense of trust and, like, how do you build that sense of intimacy in that amount of time knowing that there's, like, a group of people watching, you know?
[00:31:40] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a great question.
It is definitely an issue that we talk about a lot.
I think that access in general and privacy has become harder and harder to get. For journalists, this sort of, like, power balance has shifted a little bit. At least that's what a lot of people who have been working in my job for a lot longer than I have say that celebrity publicists dictate interview terms way more than they used to, which is a problem for journalists.
It depends on the level of star that you're talking to. So somebody like Miley Cyrus is never going to walk into a restaurant completely alone without anybody with her, that's just never going to happen. But, you know, I've interviewed. I've interviewed tons of people who are big names, but, like, they are, you know, a little bit more chill. They might not have, like, fans swarming them everywhere they go. And they're totally comfortable meeting you for lunch alone.
If you do Zoom interviews, which a lot of our job for, like, not for a profile, like a cover story would never be done on Zoom, but, like, if you're just interviewing somebody about an episode of television or something, there's almost always going to be a publicist on the line or on the Zoom.
I interviewed.
This made me laugh.
I interviewed Jon Hamm and Jonathan Tropper, who the showrunner of youf Friends and Neighbors on Zoom, about the finale, the season two finale last week, and it was. There were four publicists on the Zoom and three of us.
So the number of publicists outnumbered the people engaged in the conversation.
[00:33:41] Speaker B: Are they camera off? And it's just like, pr. Pr. Pr. Pr.
[00:33:46] Speaker A: Yeah, they're. They're just camera off.
Sometimes they will.
They will interrupt to, like, remind you about time or, you know, they'll say, like, oh, and we have to rap.
Sometimes they will interrupt and say.
[00:34:00] Speaker C: They'll be like, no, not talking about that.
[00:34:03] Speaker A: Yeah, sometimes that luckily, has not really happened to me much. Maybe a couple times where they've said, you know, oh, we really want to keep it focused on the film or whatever it may be, but we also have a certain level of ability to, like, reject that sort of thing. And so when we negotiate the terms of certain interviews, you know, you can.
For example, when I interviewed Ben Stiller and Adam Scott, the publicist, who they call it covering. So, like, the publicist who covered that interview was very lovely. And, you know, I've worked with her a bunch, but at first she was sitting closer to our table and we just had a conversation where I was like, I would really appreciate if we had a little bit of privacy. And she was totally accommodating of that.
[00:34:53] Speaker C: Yeah, that's because you've built that relationship, probably. And you, you know her.
[00:34:57] Speaker B: Yeah, the trust. The trust is there.
[00:35:00] Speaker A: Totally. And a lot of publicists totally get it. A lot of publicists, you know, have worked with journalists or used to be journalists themselves. So they. It's a. It's a push and pull.
But, you know, you never.
You don't want journalism to be in a place where publicists are dictating, you know, how people are being interviewed, what journalists are allowed to ask. And so it's a constant.
You know, it's a constant tug of war. But that's something that troubles me a little bit about the direction that we're heading.
[00:35:36] Speaker B: What is your goal with every interview?
Like, if there's a through line for
[00:35:42] Speaker A: you, I think you want to.
[00:35:47] Speaker B: For you, Ethan, though, not just, like, for journalists in general. Like, specific.
[00:35:50] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you want to generate insights. Like, I want to go to a place that hasn't necessarily, you know, that person hasn't said that or talked about that before.
That's not always possible, of course.
And so I just think you want to make it worth the reader's time.
There are certain people, like Paul McCartney, like, I'm a huge Beatles fan.
Paul McCartney has not said anything new in the last 30 years.
And so if somebody were to interview Paul McCartney and somehow find a new insight or get him talking about something in a way that he hasn't talked about before, like, that would be a real coup for a journalist.
And so I think that's probably the through line.
It depends on what the goal of the piece is. If you want somebody to break down an episode of Succession, I remember when Succession ended, there was, like, a frenzy around talking to the writers and the producers and the actors. On Succession, You want to know what people are talking about on the show. So it's helpful to be online to an extent so that you can say, like, everybody's talking about this one moment, so you make sure you ask about that. But it's also beneficial to not be tapped into or not be, like, tethered to whatever the conversation around that thing is so that you can hopefully bring yourself into the interview and talk about things that, like, genuinely interest you. Because I think if something interests you, then chances are it will interest more people.
[00:37:41] Speaker C: Yeah, it's going to feel like a more authentic article, too.
[00:37:46] Speaker A: Yeah. I think a lot of journalism now is sort of born out of, like, what's being talked about on Twitter, which is, you know, to some extent, that is what people are talking about.
But as we've seen, like, there's this whole discussion about, like, these paid clip farmers. Like, are you guys aware of this whole cottage industry?
And so I think journalists need to be aware of what is.
What is being talked about versus what is being fed to us by, like, advertising agencies.
And so this is, like, going on a whole other tangent. But I think you want to be, like, genuinely curious and not just following the trend.
[00:38:39] Speaker C: Something that Luke and I have figured out just from interviewing so many people were, you know, in the mid-50s now, as far as episode count, we. We definitely realized this, I would say, around, like, episode 20 or 30 or something. But the sooner that we can find the sort of the passion with the guest and really lean into what they're passionate about, it becomes a better experience for everybody involved. The listener, the guest, and us, obviously.
So I'm curious specifically with your articles, because I've noticed that you do approach things at a specific angle or hook, at least in the beginning.
Are you, during the interview, ever, like, realizing that, okay, this is the thing that I should be nailing in on?
And is there, like, an example of that where you've been like, ooh, this is something that I'm going to dig in on during the interview?
[00:39:32] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely.
I think this is not totally your question, I don't think, but I think it's related to.
There's this cliche about, like, profiling, like, magazine profiles where it's like, you know, so and so said while picking at a kale salad in a. You know, in an uptown restaurant. Like, it's. It's become a cliche because it's like you're trying to establish that you're there with the person.
And, you know, some of these details feel totally frivolous. And it's like, okay, why do I care that?
[00:40:11] Speaker C: I mean, it's a cliche for a reason, though.
[00:40:12] Speaker B: I like it.
[00:40:13] Speaker C: It does work. I mean, right? Like, you get to visualize the person in a way that you don't usually see them, you know?
[00:40:20] Speaker A: Totally. What I would add is sometimes those details can tell. You can indicate something larger in a story. And so I. You're always trying to, like, keep your antenna up for stuff like that. And I have two examples.
One being I interviewed Kevin o' Leary for Marty supreme, and I, like, went to his hotel room. He was like. He took me up to the. We were in the elevator together, and his wife was there, and he was eating breakfast, and he all of a sudden starts setting up a tripod with a camera. And this is before we started the interview.
And he was. He wanted to put a mic on me, or he did put a mic on me, and he was like, I'm going to film this for my socials, if that's all right. And this has never happened to me in my five years of working at Variety. I've never had an interview subject also record the interview.
And he was like, yeah, I like to put it on my socials. I like to clip it.
And I kind of just went with it. But when I was writing the piece, you want to set the scene. And to me, what that indicates is maybe a sense of he wants control over the interview.
And not in a bad way necessarily, but I thought that that small detail, even though it's not part of the interview necessarily, but it illuminates something about who he is.
[00:41:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like, you're interviewing me, I'm gonna interview you.
[00:42:00] Speaker A: Right.
And so that, to me, is more valuable to a story than he picked at his scrambled eggs.
And the other one was I interviewed Benny Safdie, and he showed up late because he had forgotten about the interview. And so I called his publicist, and she was like, he's coming right now. And he ran over, like, frantically, and he had silver spray paint, like, all over his fingers.
And he was like, I'm so sorry. Like, I lost track of time. I was spray painting, like, a Tin man costume in Central Park.
And, like, that opened up this whole conversation that we otherwise wouldn't have had.
And that was the opening of the story that his fingers were silver.
And so you want to be aware of those sorts of things. But, you know, like, I try to avoid the cliche of, like, the, you know, picking up a salad or sipping on a thing, you know,
[00:43:05] Speaker C: we'll be right back.
[00:43:12] Speaker B: I want to play, like, a scary song from, like, a horror movie before this, but all the copyright stuff, so I can't but imagine there's, like, a scary song playing right now, and it's like, oh, the 5050 horror festival is coming up. You need to submit your short film soon, by August 7th. August 7th is the deadline. You have two months to submit your short film. You have two bottles. And then after that, there's another deadline line.
Read it here first. Sub it down.
Sub it down if you dare.
No, but for real, we have our horror festival coming up in October.
October 18th is the actual day. Get your short in by August 7th if you want to be a part of it. We look forward to viewing your submission on film. Freeway 5050 horror. Those are the numbers. 5 0, 50 horror is. Is because that. That Safdie story and even the. The.
You know, the. The Ken o' Leary story, like, the Marty Supremes coming out, everything but, like, that just feels so New York, you know, it's like those stories, even the stiller story of, like, you go into this Italian restaurant an hour early. Like, that doesn't really happen out here, I think, like, in Los Angeles. And so, like, can you talk about the two coasts? And, like, were you ever thinking, oh, well, you know, Variety. And I. I'm a TV writer and la. Is la. Like, I want to do that, or was New York just a place you knew would kind of be a perfect ground for, like, stories like this?
[00:44:54] Speaker A: You know, I think that my being in New York was largely just.
I've always wanted to live here for some part of my life.
And growing up in la, I feel very strongly that I will end up back there on the West Coast.
And so, yeah, I mean, I think that.
My understanding is that a lot of the industry has opened up in New York.
You know, there's a lot of movie premieres here. It used to be, like, all in la, and it's pretty split now, at least from my understanding, like, in terms of events and talent being available.
But a lot of my job is in LA as well. Like, I did a story recently, so they're doing a Baywatch reboot, and they held an open casting call and I flew to LA to go to that open casting call.
[00:45:53] Speaker C: That's a fun story.
[00:45:54] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And, like, interview people who are, you know, like, greased in oil and wearing red Speedos and.
[00:46:02] Speaker B: See, that would be a good video piece, though.
[00:46:04] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:46:04] Speaker B: Right.
[00:46:04] Speaker C: Exactly. That's what I think about.
[00:46:06] Speaker A: Exactly. I mean, that would have definitely been a good video piece.
We probably should have brought a videographer. We did bring. I was with a photographer and we had. We have these.
[00:46:18] Speaker C: You can just ask Kevin o' Leary to come and brings through everything.
[00:46:21] Speaker A: Yeah, he should work for me.
[00:46:25] Speaker C: I'm sure he would love hearing that.
[00:46:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
But that is, like, such a uniquely LA story.
[00:46:34] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:46:35] Speaker A: And so, you know, you get both.
And I'm lucky that I get to travel a little bit for work and pursue both of those things.
[00:46:47] Speaker C: Is there an article that you have pitched that people are like, we're not gonna engage with this. We're not gonna, like. But you're just, like, still, like, oh, it would have been so good. Maybe it's like a nerdy fascination of just you or some. Is there something that comes to mind,
[00:47:06] Speaker A: an article that I pitch? I mean, I've had, like. You know, I've pitched cover stories before where it's just like, no, because there's only so many covers we can do. And, you know, that's not one that we want to have. Like, I. Sometimes you get denied by the talent, not your editor. Like, I pitched Larry David on a. I had gotten permission from my editor to pitch a cover to Larry David for his new HBO show. And I think, like, within 30 minutes, I got an email back, like, this is a polite pass because it's like he just, he's. He doesn't want to do that.
[00:47:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:47:46] Speaker A: But in terms of like an outlandish idea, I can't think of one. Honestly. Most of the outlandish ideas that I've done have come from at least some of them have come from editors. I had an editor who messaged me and was like, there's a three. This is when Dune 2 was premiering. It was the Thursday night and he was like, there's a 3am showing of Dune. And I was like, cool. And he was like, you should go.
And I hadn't even seen the first movie. So like I went home and watched Dune and then tried to sleep.
Couldn't and like pulled an all nighter watching Dune and it ended up being like one of my most read stories ever.
And so sometimes like those wacky ideas that feel totally painful in the moment end up paying off. I mean, one another insane idea that was not mine but was foisted upon me was AMC does this 24 hour Oscar movie marathon like every year for the best picture nominations.
And I went with a colleague and spent like 25 hours in the Times Square. AMC.
[00:49:02] Speaker C: Oh my God.
[00:49:03] Speaker A: And there's a picture of me in the story, like with an eye mask sleeping on the carpet like in a hallway of the Times Square. Amc, which we did make a TikTok.
The comments are not very nice. The comments are
[00:49:22] Speaker C: you didn't think that you would be on screen so much in this job.
[00:49:27] Speaker A: People were mad that we fell asleep.
Like they were like, you, you didn't do.
[00:49:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:49:33] Speaker A: And I was like, I think we kind of did do it.
[00:49:38] Speaker B: Like I'm sleeping on the floor of amc. Yeah, we're there.
[00:49:44] Speaker A: Yeah, those seats didn't even recline. So I thought that was.
[00:49:49] Speaker B: Oh God.
[00:49:50] Speaker A: Very cool.
[00:49:52] Speaker B: No, that's. That keeps you awake probably.
[00:49:54] Speaker A: You know, I fell asleep.
Did you guys see Conclave?
[00:49:59] Speaker B: No, actually I saw it at home,
[00:50:01] Speaker C: but I did see it.
[00:50:03] Speaker A: So there's a.
I mean this is not really a spoiler, but there's a part of Conclave which is a very quiet movie where a literal bomb goes off.
And I was. They had program programmed Conclave at I think like 2am so it was like the 2 to 4am slot and I had finally like started napping and I had fallen asleep and then like I woke up to the sound of a horrifyingly loud explosion.
[00:50:34] Speaker B: Good morning.
[00:50:35] Speaker A: And yeah, good morning. Good morning. At 3:30.
And then they ended with Wicked. So that was Kind of delirious.
[00:50:43] Speaker B: There you go. That's the programming of the interview. You know that.
[00:50:46] Speaker C: Exactly. You hit the 75% with Wicked, dude.
[00:50:51] Speaker B: With. With that, like, the flow of an interview. And I. I was thinking about this, but didn't ask. But I will now.
And I've. I felt this. Like, there are certain times where you have an interview and you spend time with someone and it's intimate and, like, they do open up and then it's over, you know, and there's this kind of feeling in the air of, like, maybe they're still sitting there because it's like they're still kind of in it and you're, like, packing up your things and it's like, God, like, I feel like I should.
We should spend, like, a little, you know, and like, you. Like, you mentioned that, like, coasting part after. But even that, there's still those times when it's like, oh, time's up. And you're. You're, like, pulled out of it, you know?
[00:51:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:37] Speaker B: How do you.
Because it's clear that you're very reader first. Like, you're thinking about the audience. You're thinking about the reader more than you are my relationship with Miley Cyrus, like, Ethan, Me. The. Who's interviewing this person.
[00:51:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:53] Speaker B: I mean, are you bouncing back and forth between that and are. Like, how are you making sure that the. The interviewee, if this is even a thing that happens, is, like, feeling that respect, you know? I don't know if that's the proper way to put the question, but.
[00:52:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, you mean, like, you don't want them to leave the interview feeling, like, un satisfied with.
[00:52:15] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:52:16] Speaker A: What do you like, things that were left unsaid?
[00:52:18] Speaker B: I don't know if it's unsaid. It's just. It's more of, like, that feeling of, like, you. Because a lot of times an interview, you spend an hour with someone, and if you do, you know, ask those kind of certain questions and it feels like they're opening up and then it just ends, you know?
Am I missing the mark here? Like, is that.
[00:52:36] Speaker C: Well, maybe I would think that in person, interviews are a lot easier to kind of like, slowly wind down rather than like, if you're on Zoom with someone.
To me, it's just like. Well, like, you just turn the. We talk about that with even doing remote episodes. Like, it's just like they're all gone. And I'm, like, now, like, focusing on my apartment or whatever. Like, it's. It's crazy where'd they go. But there is, there is something too. Like, it's almost like a, from like a talent management perspective of like, how do you sort of remain sensitive to the person? Like I had a question earlier of like, are you like thanking them for like opening up and like, how much are you referencing after the interview, like what you discussed or like, thanks for telling me about that? Like, that's just like a normal, you know, how do you like remain like a normal person to person relationship as a reporter?
[00:53:29] Speaker A: Yeah. That's interesting.
I think like, you know, when you have lunch with somebody or you're winding down after like a 90 minute interview with somebody where you get personal.
Yeah. I mean, there are those moments where you're like walking out together and you're like, oh, like, that was great, thanks so much. You know, and sometimes they'll say things like after the interview is over where it's like, oh, you know, they'll express like, maybe some nerves about something they said, like, oh, I hope I didn't come off as this.
And you know, sometimes you're like reassuring people. Like, you know, sometimes people will ask, you know, I don't want it to come off that I'm ungrateful or I don't want it to whatever. And so, you know, those things are off the record. Right. Like you've ended the interview, but you clock it in your head as to like, this is, you know, when I'm writing this part of the interview, I hope that I can express their thoughts the way that they want them to be expressed.
[00:54:31] Speaker C: That's helpful though. And it shows that they care. Like if, if they are worried about coming off as ungrateful, they're probably like, not an ungrateful person.
[00:54:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and that was just a random example that I made up. But like, it has happened before where also like when people, I mean, this is frustrating as an interviewer, when you end an interview and suddenly they like totally turn it on in a way or I guess during the interview they had turned it on. And then when they turn it off, it's like, whoa, this is actually a more interesting person.
[00:55:11] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:55:12] Speaker A: And you're like, shit.
I had an interview with a comedian who I won't name. Not like a, not like a mega celebrity, but where we ended the interview. And then we were, he was like, which way are you walking? And then we ended up walking the same direction and talking for like 15 minutes. And he was like, this is off the record, right? I was like, yeah, yeah. And then he started like talking about all these interesting things that, you know, he wouldn't want to say in an interview. But it does make you go like, oh, you know, maybe if I had another hour, we could. We could get into those sorts of things.
[00:55:53] Speaker C: Totally.
[00:55:54] Speaker B: Everyone's media trained, man. Everyone's pushing their brand. Do you think it's more important, you know, putting yourself almost in, like, the marketing or branding shoes?
Like, do you think it's important for people to be authentic? Like, do you think they're these. These, like you said, mega celebrities? Like, people enjoy reading that more than they do the.
Yes. And, you know, we did this. And here are all the rehearsed questions that I've answered a million times, which, again, like you said, they turn it on, and then right when they turn it off, that's what you're interested in. And I assume that turning it off is like them being them, you know?
[00:56:29] Speaker A: Right.
I mean, I think that authenticity is incredibly appealing. I mean, you see, like, people like Jennifer Lawrence where you're.
I feel like when I'm watching a Jennifer Lawrence interview, it's like she's just saying what she thinks.
And that endears me to her. I felt that way a little bit with Miley Cyrus, that there's not a lot of pop stars at her level that are willing to joke around.
She felt pretty candid to me in a way that other people at her level are not.
But if I was a celebrity, I would be terrified to give interviews because everything gets taken out of context. People on Twitter and, I mean, it's like people. Half of them are not even real people. They're bots.
Are insane. I mean, people are insane. And so it's not a.
[00:57:28] Speaker C: It's not variety they need to be worried about. It's like Twitter, you know, like, the people who are gonna.
[00:57:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I also. I also understand why.
I understand why some people do not trust journalists.
You know, they might have gotten burned before by something that they said that they felt was taken out of context. I think also, like, when you write a profile of somebody and this is just the way it happens. Like, if I'm the journalist, I will spend 90 minutes with you. You feel like you know me. I feel like I know you, and I've written 2500 word story or whatever it is that maybe they feel very happy about.
And then what happens in order to promote the story is we have a social media team that breaks it out, you know, and will put out tidbits of it. And it's not just us, you know, it's discussing Film and pop crave and all those types of aggregators as well.
And, you know, not that these things are necessarily taken out of context, but they are taken out of a larger profile. Sure, totally. See how it's uncomfortable to have, like, one piece of something blow up online.
A very tiny fraction of those people are actually clicking the link and reading the story. And so, like, that becomes the story. It's like what somebody said about Trump or whatever it is.
And so I get why people would rather go on Hot Ones where, like, I didn't mean to say it.
[00:59:05] Speaker B: I was eating. I was eating a spicy chicken wing.
[00:59:09] Speaker A: Yeah, the chicken wing excuse. No, but like, it's. It's a safe environment.
And a lot of. A lot of those shows who. They don't purport to be journalists, but
[00:59:23] Speaker C: they become a necessary part of the press circuit for sure.
[00:59:27] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so you have big stars who they might have.
You know, 10 years ago, if you had to promote a movie, you might do.
You might have a whole media strategy of like, we're gonna do the COVID of Vanity Fair, then we're gonna do the trades, and then when the movie comes out, we're gonna put you on Good Morning America and blah, blah, blah. And now what that looks like is, like, we're gonna do Hot Ones. We're gonna do the Travis Kelsey's podcasts. We're going to do, you know, the Chicken Date. Chicken Shop Date. Yeah. And those shows are great and they're very entertaining, and I watch them. But I think that you. You lose something when you. When that becomes the whole press cycle.
[01:00:15] Speaker B: What is one trait all these celebs have in common?
[01:00:26] Speaker A: Well, I think if you're interviewing somebody, then the commonality is that they want to be heard.
Unless you're interviewing them anonymously. But I think really the only thing that they all have in common is, like, promoting something which is either a project or themself.
But other than that, every interview is different.
[01:00:49] Speaker C: They're just like us, you know, some of them are.
[01:00:55] Speaker B: Yeah, you probably have some crazy stories, dude, that you can't talk about. But
[01:01:02] Speaker A: not like crazy crazy. I mean, I. And I. And I feel totally comfortable talking about a lot of. I mean, the craziest interview I think I've ever done was.
And it's actually this.
That guy right there.
We did a cover story on the Mario movie back in 2023, and I co wrote it with a film editor that had a lot more experience than I did at the time. And I think the idea of pairing us Together was like, I grew up playing Mario. I was obsessed with video games as a kid.
He had never like played video games. But he's one of the best journalists who covers the film industry. And so like, to have us both together made a lot of sense.
And so the story was we were interviewing Shigeru Miyamoto, the creator of Mario, and then Chris Meledandri, who's the head of Illumination Studio behind the movie.
And we, we had, we knew ahead of time that we were gonna have a translator for Mr. Miyamoto because he really doesn't speak English, he speaks Japanese.
And that was one of the most stressful. Just like, I mean, there's whole things that happen, but like when you're dealing with a company like Nintendo who are not used to press in that way, like Nintendo is very used to dictating their own publicity. Like, they do Nintendo directs and they have a huge internal comms team. They don't deal with journalists that much. And when they do, it's like video game journalists. And I think a lot more is understood between the two of them.
And so them going into Hollywood, where this is the first Mario movie in 30 years, I don't think that they were as prepared to like open him up to an interview where they didn't know all the questions ahead of time. And so there was a lot of like, we didn't know. We thought the interview could have imploded before it even started.
And then there was the whole thing with a translator where we.
That adds.
[01:03:29] Speaker C: That's like a conversational block in a way. Like, just in terms of like, it's not usually because you gotta tell the translator, like there's so much dead time that at any momentum is hard to sort of.
[01:03:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And you, you also don't, you know, things in any translation, things get lost or simplified.
And so we actually ended up paying a third party translator to like go over the recording and just make sure that like the translation was accurate. Which it was, but it was.
I mean, one example that is really funny is like a question that they did not want us to ask was what. What is your go to Mario Kart character?
Which you would think, you know, that's like a softball.
But the reasoning was that he treats every Mario character like his children and so he's unable to choose.
[01:04:34] Speaker B: Wow.
[01:04:35] Speaker A: And so we were like, well, he can just say that in the interview. That's a funny answer.
But sometimes you run into that level of control and that is very difficult because most of the time we're Dealing with.
We're dealing with film studios and actors and publicists who, like, work in Hollywood. And so it's kind of playing on the same field. And then sometimes when, like, you're. You go into tech or you go into video games, whatever it may be.
[01:05:08] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[01:05:09] Speaker A: And it's like, oh, we are not speaking the same language here. I mean, in that case, literally and figuratively.
That was definitely a complicated one.
[01:05:19] Speaker C: That is fascinating.
Well, we've gone through so much in this interview, and we really appreciate your time.
And we do ask one final question to all of our guests, and it's intentionally vague, which is, what is the dream for you?
[01:05:35] Speaker A: I think to be.
To be able to create.
Like, no matter what I end up doing, I think that I always want to be in a field or surrounded by people where I'm feeling creative.
That would be my biggest regret is, like, if I took another job where I was maybe getting paid more or felt more secure, but, like, felt ultimately unfulfilled.
And so, yeah, that's. That's what I would say.
[01:06:11] Speaker C: I love that.
[01:06:12] Speaker B: Amazing. Thank you so much, man, for. For coming on. Super insightful. Very interesting. And we've read a bunch of your stuff, at least, coming into this episode. And you're very talented, man. Excited to see where you go and. And continue to grow and. And evolve in your own career. And when you're out here, let us know, man,
[01:06:35] Speaker A: this is really fun. I. What you guys do also, obviously, we didn't get into that on the podcast at all, but, like, 50. 50 is really cool, and so I like what you guys are doing.
[01:06:46] Speaker B: Thanks, man.
[01:06:48] Speaker C: Thanks, dude. Great chat.
[01:06:51] Speaker A: Yeah, keep in touch.
[01:06:56] Speaker C: And now it's 5050 after hours.
It's crazy. He's our age and he's writing cover stories.
[01:07:08] Speaker B: Pretty cool.
[01:07:09] Speaker C: It's really cool. It is really cool. I. I feel like I have always had such an admiration for journalists because of the way they are able to sort of. I mean, I. I always loved just the way that they're able to, like, humanize celebrities. You know, like, we. We joke. We were joking on the pod about that. You know, he takes a little bite of the muffin and, you know, he chops before he answers my question. But it's like, I love that stuff. I know. Me too. I live for that.
[01:07:42] Speaker B: It's like, they take a bite of kale. What else? What's in there?
[01:07:45] Speaker C: Let's cut the rest of the article and just talk about how the celeb is eating.
[01:07:48] Speaker B: Yeah. What fork are they using?
[01:07:50] Speaker C: Yeah. At what Point. Did he puncture the yolk so that the yolk spread throughout the rest of the plate? You know, that's. Does he dip his hash browns in the yolk?
[01:07:58] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
Did you have breakfast? Did you do breakfast?
[01:08:02] Speaker C: No, man. No. No, no, no, no, no. You're. Lots of coffee.
[01:08:06] Speaker B: Lots of coffee.
[01:08:08] Speaker C: What should I have for breakfast? Do I. Do I be bad and go get a bagel somewhere?
[01:08:11] Speaker B: That doesn't sound bad. That sounds pretty good. Bagel. You get, like, an egg, egg bagel and eggs.
[01:08:16] Speaker C: That's true. That could work. I could also just make that at home.
[01:08:19] Speaker B: Maybe you got, like, a floral chair behind you. I've never seen that.
[01:08:25] Speaker C: Yeah. Mackenzie switched out the chair from the office to the living room, so it's a. We did a little chair switch situation.
[01:08:31] Speaker B: Looks good.
[01:08:31] Speaker C: I arrived home. So I arrived home. That's the way it was.
[01:08:34] Speaker B: Not moving.
[01:08:35] Speaker C: No complaining.
[01:08:36] Speaker B: No complaining.
[01:08:36] Speaker C: No complaining.
[01:08:37] Speaker B: You got, like.
You got, like, a printer on there.
[01:08:41] Speaker C: It's fine. We're gonna. No, don't look too hard.
We are moving the couch from the living room to this office. So I'm gonna have a couch situation in the office, and we're getting a new couch for the living room, which I'm really excited about.
[01:08:55] Speaker B: Well, I love the couch in your living room now.
[01:08:58] Speaker C: Well, it's gonna be in my office, so that's something. We could now film the podcast in my office.
[01:09:03] Speaker B: Whoa.
[01:09:05] Speaker C: That's part of it for our east side guests.
[01:09:07] Speaker B: That's actually really interesting.
[01:09:09] Speaker C: Yeah. Who don't want to make the trek out to. Yeah, the west side.
The only issue is the cats, dude.
[01:09:17] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[01:09:18] Speaker C: You hated that. I could tell you hated that. When he walked through the screen on the podcast, I was so. It could be a nice clip, though. Just like, we show the cat, and then we. We show your face after.
[01:09:30] Speaker B: Because I was, like, so upset.
[01:09:32] Speaker C: You were pissed, dude.
[01:09:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I could tell. Livid, bad.
[01:09:36] Speaker C: I was surprised you didn't hop off like last time.
[01:09:39] Speaker B: I know. I usually.
[01:09:40] Speaker C: Usually when that happens, you hop off.
[01:09:42] Speaker B: I hop off when I see the cat.
[01:09:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:09:45] Speaker B: All right, guys. I'm hopping off.
Did you learn something? I'm like your mom. Did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging. Make sure you follow us at the 5050Fest on Instagram and give us five stars, because. Why not? Why not subscribe? Why not? You know why not? Okay, bye.
