Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I think, like, when I'm reading a script, like, having read so many, like, I'm really just looking for a clear voice that feels like unique and commercial in a way. And also just like someone with like a good hook. Like, oftentimes, like the most important thing, like when I'm looking at something for rap, is like, how is the hook of the script? Like, do I read the first 10 pages and do I, like, do I need to get to the next page? Page, you know?
[00:00:33] Speaker B: I'm Luke Steinfeld.
[00:00:35] Speaker C: And I'm Wyatt Sarkisian.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: We made the 5050 podcast to support you on your filmmaking journey.
[00:00:39] Speaker C: 50% business, 50% creative.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Every Tuesday, a new how to.
[00:00:44] Speaker C: This week, our good friend Arman Yagmai stops by the podcast. Named one of Variety's 10 Assistants to Watch in 2025, this now coordinator at VRV gives us a glimpse into what it's like to hunt down jobs for the writers and directors we love. It's a good one this week. Enjoy.
Luke Kahan was on our bus back in the day.
[00:01:16] Speaker B: I know. Kahan was the man.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: With him after this.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: He was a big. Is he still selling? He was like the big hypebeast guy when, like the selling, like, shoes and all that, right?
[00:01:26] Speaker A: No, he's not, he's not selling.
[00:01:28] Speaker C: He's super buttoned up now. He's super buttoned up.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: He made the logical next step. He's in law school.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: Okay, that actually, that checks out. That checks out.
Does he probably still wears, like really cool shoes though.
[00:01:41] Speaker A: Yeah, he does.
[00:01:42] Speaker C: He's got a little something. It's like a little chill shine of.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: Flair, you know, he's got, he's got, he's got. He's got quiet drip now.
[00:01:48] Speaker C: He's got quiet, totally quiet drip. Gotta stand out a little bit. But not, you know, that's like.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: I try to have quiet drip.
[00:01:54] Speaker B: I was gonna say you kind of.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: Have that, you know.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: Yeah, you kind of have that vibe, man. You got the chain.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:02:01] Speaker C: You have to find ways to stand out. Everything is so. Just homogenous, you know, and you gotta find ways to stand out. Whether it's personality wise, like some people, or if you're Armand, just, you know, throwing a chain or something and then.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: And then. You're good. You're good.
So what's up, dude? Armand. It's been like. I guess you and Wyatt talk a lot. How did you guys meet? What was. What was that? Just a random coffee.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: We met. How did we meet? Like, I feel like we met like multiple ways, but it finally manifested as like a meeting and we had drinks. We've had drinks like a few times.
[00:02:36] Speaker C: Yeah, we have originally assistance scheduling, stuff like that. We've both kind of worked our way out of the rep assistant path to some extent. And we're excited to get into Armand and formally introduce you and get into how you have sort of risen in the ranks. And I have a lot of. If it doesn't make you too uncomfortable, I have a lot of sort of applause to give you and compliments to. To throw your way and see how you feel. And I'm gonna see how you feel. That that's, that's the real test because. Okay, you are. You are a testament to hard work and just sticking with it because a lot of people don't stick with it.
[00:03:20] Speaker A: Why? I didn't know this was gonna be a glaze session.
[00:03:23] Speaker C: No, no, I'm glazing, I'm glazing.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: We got an hour left. Arbonne. Just hold on. Don't talk yet.
[00:03:27] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
But I also wanted to have you on because I think it'll be a really tangible session because I feel like you have always been very grounded in your approach at navigating the sort of agency scene. And I saw you were promoted recently, which. Major congrats on that. And we want to sort of make this episode a path to, on one hand, finding your way upwards in an agency, but also if you're an artist listening to a. To this, figuring out, you know, what. What reps are looking for and how you can kind of grow yourself as a writer and director and overall talent. So, yeah, happy to have you on, man.
[00:04:12] Speaker A: Happy to be here. I would never turn this down. Are you kidding?
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Come on. I love it.
[00:04:16] Speaker C: I love it. Yeah. I think when you responded to my text, you said, any opportunity for me to talk, I will take, which I. Which I really appreciate that honesty.
You're a talkative guy.
But Luke, Luke, you know Armand from, From school.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So we, we did a. We had some writing classes together. And that's. That's my big question, man. So when.
When did the, the shift happen?
From being passionate about or were you always kind of super business industry minded? I feel like from our conversations, first of all, why this kid would make me laugh so much with his stuff, like, writing wise. We wrote like a Rick and Morty spec together.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: And I, I would just be like, this, this guy is insane. Like, he's so funny.
So. Yeah. What. What happened?
[00:05:13] Speaker A: Well, look, I have a lot of thoughts on, like, Film school and like, the best way you can stick out from film school and get into the business, like, it's something I've thought about a lot, honestly, recently.
I, I obviously, like, still try to be creative and I love writing still. But I do think, like, there was a point, like, there was actually one class that I think, like, really like, made me want to do, go into rap and go into the agency world, at least to start. Like, I wasn't always like, I'm want to stay and be an agent, but there was this practicum in producing class at usc. I don't know if you remember that one. I, I don't know if you ever took it, but I had this, I had this professor in a Carol, and she like, completely was like, you should be an agent. And she basically convinced me to like, go try the agency thing.
[00:06:10] Speaker C: It feels really good to be told that sort of thing, right? Where you're, you're in a period in your life where you're. You see so many options and then for someone to be. To see something in you. That must have felt good.
[00:06:20] Speaker A: Yeah. And I, I still go back to Carol's class and talk. I do like, this kind of thing, right, for all of our students.
So that's been like, we've kept really close and like, honestly, like, I feel like film, Film school, like, doesn't always teach you, like, how to break in. And like, you guys chime in. You guys both went to film school, I think, right?
Like, it doesn't always teach you, like, how to actually get your first job. Like, it sort of like, teaches you a lot about the craft and it teaches you a lot about, like, watching movies, talking about movies, which I think is like, super helpful. Right? Like, all we do is talk about movies and tv, if you're in tv. But this one class, like, and it was like my senior year, like, she actually was like, look, you guys need to, like, start talking to people in the industry. Like, start talking to assistants. Like, start looking at what you actually do in the mailroom and do as an assistant because, like, that's what 90% of you. You're going to be facing when you leave.
[00:07:15] Speaker C: And like, yeah, that's, that's what you're going to be doing for the first, for the first five years of your career, you know, like, essentially is at least. Yeah, at least exactly working your way up. And I noticed that as well in film school of. There's such like, a separation between, like, it was like, these are the professors who are going to teach you how to do creative stuff. And then there's also, like, an office for career development that you go to. And these people are not like, I wish the people who have had jobs in the industry are the ones telling you how to get jobs. Know, that was like a big. That was a big disconnect for me at least.
[00:07:49] Speaker A: That's why I love this lady. She was a producer on the Original Father of the Bride, and she was still doing producing work. And she was totally, like, look, like, you need to be like.
Like, it's not going to be like, you graduate. And they're like, you know what? You come and direct the Labo movie, we choose you. Random person from usc. Like, no, like, it's totally a grind. And it's totally. Like, how many people can you be like?
And like, not just, like, I think the most important thing is, like, follow up, too. Like, we can organize this more, but, like, I think follow up is the most important thing. Like, following up with your relationships and, like, making sure that you're not just, like, meeting someone once and, like, then saying, okay, we've met now. Like, it's like following up and, like, seeing how people are doing and, like, seeing what people are reading and what people are watching. Like, it doesn't have to be, like, every day, like, hey, Wyatt, like, how you doing, man?
[00:08:43] Speaker C: You know, like, yeah, it's another obviously.
[00:08:46] Speaker A: Like, I want to talk to you every day. Like, you specifically.
You're not like, the other people.
[00:08:52] Speaker C: Exactly. And it's also, like, it has to be. You have to understand how that person fits into, like, the greater landscape of your social circle. And in entertainment.
[00:09:01] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:01] Speaker C: Like, I'm not, like, if maybe you. If I remember that you were really excited about a writer once upon a time, and I see they booked a big.
I'll text you and like, dude, like, like, congrats on that. You know, like, it should be more casual, if that makes sense.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: So. So what about this producing class? Because I assume in a producing practicum, you're learning how to produce and not so much be an assistant or become an agent. Like, I assume you're. You're learning how to produce content. Correct? Or.
[00:09:36] Speaker A: Well, that's why this one was interesting. It was like, it was more just like, you're about to Industry. Enter the industry. A class. They called it practicum producing, but in reality, like, I think it was, like, a sneaky, valuable class in. USC because in reality, like, she has you doing script coverage. What other film school class actually has you sitting down and doing script coverage. Like at usc there were not that many, honestly. Yeah, you count them on one hand.
[00:10:04] Speaker C: Which is like so vital. There are so many come in and don't know what they're doing. Yeah.
[00:10:09] Speaker A: And like, and at some point it like it. Because like I've dealt with interns before who have not done script coverage and it's like they'll, they learn but like at some point like you're not doing script coverage anymore. And I think script coverage like it's so long and tedious because it like you do it over and over again and you get to a point where you don't need it anymore and you can just be like, here's what I thought of the script in like three sentences.
[00:10:32] Speaker C: Yes, that's, that's the way it works eventually. But you have to get through long form crafting of your exactly as someone starting out.
[00:10:40] Speaker A: It's like you need your, you need your word vomit before you can make it concise. And you can make it like you need to be able to say the summary and say your thoughts before like nailing down. Like you need to be able to do that over and over again before nailing down. Like here are the important things I want to hit on when I'm talking about a script or I'm talking about a movie, you know.
[00:10:58] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:10:59] Speaker B: The exact parallel to finding your voice as an artist too. Of like you gotta in. In in your words, Arman. Of like the word vomit. Of like kind of producing shorts or whatever it is just film in general and getting to that, that point of like oh wait, no, now I can tell this same story in a minute rather than a 20 minute short, you know.
[00:11:19] Speaker A: Cuz like writers like what I've noticed like writers like, because like I'll help a lot of friends with their drafts and like writers will start with like 150 page draft before they get it down to a 90 page draft. You know, it's like no one goes from like a 80 page draft to 100 page draft. Usually like it. Usually you start with all your thoughts and then you trim it down because to make things more concise. That's just what I've noticed.
[00:11:44] Speaker C: How much are you doing that like outside of work, working with people on their drafts?
[00:11:48] Speaker A: Well, I mean it is like recently I've gotten so many things to do at work like that I don't have as much time to just do reading for my friends. Even though I try to a lot. Adam, my boss has me read a lot. So I on the weekend, like Sundays I spend a lot of time reading and pitching, like, our client scripts. Like, something valuable that he has had me do for the last year. I've been on his desk is he has me read a bunch of stuff from our weekend read. And then Monday morning at 8:30 or 9, he calls me and he's like, what did you read? Pitch me every script you read. Give me the action items. What action should we take? Go do them.
And that's something that we've been doing week to week for, like, this entire time I've been on his.
[00:12:38] Speaker C: Can you. Can you play that out a little bit in terms of. He calls you and he says. He says, you know, you read four scripts on Sunday. So say, or maybe there's a short story and you watch a short film and there's two scripts you read or whatever. How are you actually pitching those? And how long is that taking? And then what are those actual action items? Like, are we gonna. Is an action item? Like, let's take this out next month or let's have the writer do another draft? Or what do those look like?
[00:13:08] Speaker A: Yeah, okay. So I guess it depends on the type of material that comes in or the context of the material, right? So if a client script comes in, that's like a first draft, usually we'll read it and then we'll talk about it. And he'll be like, pitch it to me. Tell me what you think it was. It's this meets this. And then he's like, okay, for this one, like, what? Like, what are your notes? Like, what do you think they can do better? Or do you think it's ready to go out now? You know, and like, a lot of times the action item there will be like typing up a note stock or typing up just like some bullet points about, like, what we think the writer could improve on a next draft, or if it's a later draft, sometimes it's like, okay, I think we're ready to go out with this. Like, can you send me a list of producers that you think we would want to send it to? And then he'll take that list into consideration when we make the list of when we're going out with it.
Maximum effort on that list a lot.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Of course.
[00:14:06] Speaker C: How did you. How did you figure out.
How did you gain that knowledge of, like, okay, this is the script. It's an action comedy. I'm gonna send it to X company, Y company, Z company. Like, how. How did you sort of gain that knowledge? Are you. Is it because you've listened to him on Phone calls, talking to these people? Or is it because, you know people at each one of these companies?
[00:14:27] Speaker A: I think a lot of it is, like, at agencies, like, there's a lot of information that goes out. Not. It's like, you're. You're not just. I'm not just using the information I get from Adam, but, like, other agents. And I think, like, you can sort of, like, piece together.
I mean, like, obviously, I know you, and I know maximum effort because of you, but also, like, you can sort of piece together the mandates of these places by, like, seeing the emails that come through your inbox. Like, a lot of times, like, someone will be like, I sat down with Wyatt today. Maximum effort is looking for this, this, and this. And then, like, when you're going out with a script, you're like, oh, I remember that.
Maximum efforts. Looking for action comedies or whatever, you know?
[00:15:07] Speaker C: Totally, totally.
[00:15:08] Speaker A: So, like, you sort of get that from, like, just sitting in the assistant chair and listening not only to your boss, but also to just other agents. Like, Adam doesn't do a lot of covering, but, like, the way that we figure out what the studios want is that, like, people. Agents cover the studios, and they'll tell you this is what they're looking for. Right. So a lot of time it's like, it's not just your boss, but, like, being aware of your surroundings and being aware of, like, what people are looking for based on what other agents are telling you, what your friends that you get on drinks are telling you.
And also just, like, looking at deadline and seeing what's selling and what's hot.
[00:15:49] Speaker B: Totally does. Does your boss rep? Like, who does he. Who does he rep? Is it writer, directors? Is it talented?
[00:15:57] Speaker A: He. We're. We're MP lit, so. Okay, we do writers and directors for motion pictures, man.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: So then Anna and I don't know if you're allowed to answer this, but, like, on a Sunday, how do you read four scripts? Am I. Like, that sounds insane.
[00:16:14] Speaker A: Well, I think, honestly, at this point, like, why. You definitely read.
[00:16:20] Speaker C: I can. I can help. I can help answer that question, too. I think you're also reading scripts. You're reading scripts as an agent, which is very different than reading, like, if you're a development exec, you're reading a script in a very different lens, right? Because you.
[00:16:33] Speaker A: That's true.
[00:16:34] Speaker C: My co workers will read a script, like, three times and then give notes sometimes because you want to give great notes, you know? But if you're an agent and you have incoming materials for potential clients, you'll Read scripts like that, you know, you'll.
[00:16:47] Speaker A: Go through them quickly because it's more like you're more than.
[00:16:50] Speaker B: It's quickly, as in, it's the first 10 pages and then you're. You're moving if it's not great, if.
[00:16:56] Speaker A: It'S, like, truly horrible. You don't need to read that much to figure that out. Out. After reading so many scripts, like, you really don't need to read that much. But, like, I've gotten to the point where, like, I think I can read a script in around an hour and 10 minutes. Like a feature.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: Whoa.
[00:17:13] Speaker C: Yeah. Are you just, like, for. It would be like two and a half hours for me, probably. But I'm also reading it from a different. You know, you're awesome.
[00:17:20] Speaker A: A different perspective. Like, I'm Sometimes I'm just scanning it for viability. Like, would this be something that someone's potentially interested in? Whereas why it could be going in. And, like, we need detailed notes on this.
[00:17:30] Speaker B: Like, this viability, though, as in. As in. So you're just looking for, like, a very broad kind of, like, okay, it's a. It's an action comedy. Like, I'm going to. I'm going to move with this.
[00:17:40] Speaker A: Yeah. But also, like, the key thing, just, like, checking the tone to see, like, let's say I'm reading it for one of our directors. Like, we know what this director is into. And, like, I can read it and be like, this has elements that he would like. Like, I would want to send this to him, or I wouldn't want to send this to him. You know, or sometimes just to get a sense of, like, it's this meets this. So I can blast it out to the team and be like, guys, this is a new script that they're looking for directors on. It's this meets this. Like, who. Who do we think would be a good fit here? You know, it takes less.
Like, I think you have to linger on a script for not as long because you're not going in, like, trying to improve it. You're more just trying to see where does this fit into the landscape and who do you think would be a good fit for.
[00:18:25] Speaker B: And on Wyatt Wyatt, on your end, it's more of how to improve this to then get to that point of.
[00:18:31] Speaker C: If it's a current. If it's like a current project draft, then yeah. But if it's an incoming material, we, you know, I could probably read not all of it and figure out, is this just too, like, is this too cynical for what we would Ever do. Like, we have a very specific sort of brand as a company, and we. We wouldn't do that because it's too dark, it's too cynical. And you can tell that in, you know, the first 60 pages, if that.
But then there's also an element of maybe it's a writer that my bosses work with all the time. I'll spend more time on that because.
And I'll then be writing like a two paragraph summary on the script so that they are aware of what's going on because they're meeting with the writer on Monday or whatever it is, you know, so it really fluctuates.
[00:19:14] Speaker A: Very context based.
[00:19:15] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, it's very context based. But also what I'll say is that, like, it didn't always, like, same with you, Armand. Like, it didn't always take you an hour to read a script. Like, I. I'm sure when you were in the mail room and reading it would take you much more time. And I think it. It really is just. You got to read a lot to.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:33] Speaker C: You know, understand how to get through a page in, you know, 30 seconds or whatever, you know?
[00:19:39] Speaker A: Yeah, it's just like. It's like. It becomes like, sort of like second nature because, like, I. I've read so many, and I think, like, I'm super grateful to Adam that we've had this system of totally.
[00:19:51] Speaker C: It's not every. It's not every boss. It's not everybody. It's not every assistant who puts themselves up for that too, you know?
[00:19:58] Speaker A: Yeah. It's like, honestly, like, I'm super grateful because I don't think, like, I think, like, it's helped my progression a lot, like having that, like, one element of his desk, like, the reading on the weekends. Like, sometimes it sucks to read on a Sunday, but, like, also at this point, it's like, super relaxing for me. And it's become like, I think, yeah, you know, it's like, you sit in your chair. I'm super grateful. Like, he would, like, pushed me to do that, you know, like, it's great.
[00:20:25] Speaker C: What's the ideal reading situation for you? Are you lighting a candle? Are you drinking coffee?
[00:20:31] Speaker A: I don't need fancy stuff. I usually just, like.
[00:20:33] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:20:33] Speaker C: I have a candle going right here.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: So I. I just usually sit in my bed. Like, Ahmad, where do you work?
[00:20:39] Speaker B: Where do you work?
[00:20:41] Speaker A: Oh, my God. We haven't even said this.
I. I work at Verve. I. It's a. It's an agency, and we're based out of Hollywood. We Do a lot of writers. And I'd say MP is our biggest thing then tv. We also have a talent team.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: And you're in person every day or what?
[00:20:58] Speaker A: In person every day.
I drive from Santa Monica to Hollywood.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Oh, that's not too bad. That's.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: That's.
[00:21:05] Speaker C: That's.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: That's not terrible.
[00:21:07] Speaker A: But yeah, in person every day. You know, I. It's great. I. The recent thing that I've been doing at VERB is now joining the meetings in my first couple of MP meetings last week.
Stressful, but it's.
[00:21:21] Speaker C: What do you mean by the meetings? Like, oh, there's like.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: There's like.
There's like weekly staff meetings that the MP team goes over all of the open assignments.
[00:21:33] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: We have a director meeting and a writer meeting. And I.
I've been taking my first ones of those.
[00:21:40] Speaker C: Yeah, well, take us through what happens in those, please. Like, so it's on a. It's on a Monday or Tuesday or whatever it is.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: It's on. It's on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and for us. And basically all the agents, honestly, in.
[00:21:54] Speaker C: The MP department will be in a room.
[00:21:55] Speaker A: Exactly. All the agents in the MP department are in the room. It changes week to week because sort of like now something that I do with our current coordinate with our other coordinator is we basically, like, we go to the agent who's running it and we come up with an agenda. So sometimes that changes week to week. But I mean, like, I just started joining them. But the main thing that I've noticed is that, like, we'll always go over open assignments, who we're putting up for them and where they're at in the process of.
[00:22:26] Speaker C: Okay, where they're at. Meaning, like the open assignment coming from.
[00:22:29] Speaker A: Exactly. Like, where the studio is at. Like, oh, right now the studio is like. Like, there's four writers being elevated to the studio or there's four directors being elevated to the studio. Like, we'll. And depending on who we have in the running, we'll be like, oh, we have this guy in the running, so let's push for him, you know, just to keep everyone on the same page.
[00:22:47] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So a bunch of questions. How, like, how many open assignments would you say there are going around on. On, like, the average Thursday?
[00:22:56] Speaker A: It really depends. Like, it really depends, like, who we have up for stuff at the current time. But, like, we'll go through it quickly. It can be like, I. I don't even want to give a number, but it can. Like, sure, there's. There's always so Many. And it depends, like, where our clients are up for. We'll. We'll usually lean into those.
[00:23:15] Speaker C: Yeah, go.
[00:23:16] Speaker B: I assume it's the same question, but, like, an open assignment of, like, are. Are those. Is it like, oh, Disney's looking for a writer to come on and. And take a stab at this IP or something? Like what? What Exactly?
[00:23:28] Speaker A: Exactly, like. So, like, sometimes it'll be like.
Like, we want a writer to come in and write a movie based on Labubu. Like, that's happening at Sony, you know, like, it's like, who can crack the Labubu story?
[00:23:42] Speaker C: You know, didn't someone get assigned to that? Who's. Who's writing that?
[00:23:47] Speaker A: I don't know. I need to look at the chains. But I know, like, that is, like, my funny one that I've been, like, referencing.
[00:23:53] Speaker C: Right, right. Yeah.
[00:23:54] Speaker A: Are the boo boos even going to be relevant in when.
[00:23:59] Speaker C: So the way it happens is someone who's covering Sony will hear about, or, you know, maybe it's a friend or whatever. You'll hear that they're gearing up when he's covering Sony.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: And Armand, I apologize because I don't know any of this.
[00:24:12] Speaker A: No, don't worry.
[00:24:14] Speaker B: So cover, like, someone at Verb. At the agency. Their job is to. Being in some sort of.
[00:24:20] Speaker A: He's being like, the Sony guru.
[00:24:22] Speaker B: Some of their job, someone's, like, getting drinks with Sony all the time. Or it's like, a certain person at Sony, like, in development. Like, who are they talking to?
[00:24:30] Speaker A: They're talking to, like, the. Basically, there's, like, a team of people who cover the studios, right? So, like, three agents will be assigned to cover Sony and like, all of them, like, keep up to date on Sony's projects, keep up to date on the execs, who's doing what, who's in charge of which projects, and just, like, being in, like, a steady communication with them.
And so I'll add on to that.
[00:24:54] Speaker C: Yeah, I'll add on to that to say that, like, their job is also to be talking with every production company who has a deal with Sony. Yeah, that's because that's. That's, like, one of the biggest avenues. Right? So, like, if our feature deal is at Paramount, we'll get a call from, like, the Verb agent who just started covering Paramount, just to introduce themselves and be like, hey, I'm here to help you out.
[00:25:15] Speaker B: And do those Verve agents rep any sort of, like, they have a roster of clients or the clients, like, production companies and studios and such?
[00:25:24] Speaker A: Like, yes, but I think, like, when There's a covering agent for a studio. Like you have your clients obviously that you're like point on.
[00:25:32] Speaker B: Uh huh.
[00:25:33] Speaker A: But also when you're covering for a studio, it's like basically like you're the person adverb who's representing all of the Verve clients for that studio. So it's like you're not just looking out for your own clients, you're also looking out for this other guy's clients. Even though like he might not be on the covering team. Because it's like, that's why it's called covering. Like you want to cover Sony for the agency, you know. Cool.
[00:25:54] Speaker C: And that is a. Yeah, yeah, that's nice as a covering agent to be like, oh, we have ex writer working on, you know, this, this movie at Sony, even though it's not your client. But it's nice to be able to like in a way take ownership of that and represent the company.
[00:26:09] Speaker B: So then is the covering.
Is the covering agent. I feel like it's on insane saying this stuff. Is the covering agent coming into those Tuesday Thursday meetings and like pitching open assignments to the MP lit team?
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean like that like they'll be like, well, sometimes we'll focus on one studio. One day we'll focus on a different studio, a different day. Like this is like unanimous pretty much all the agencies. It's like a covering agent basically like represents that studio and all the projects that they're doing. And then like sometimes the meetings are used as a place where you can put like, I have ideas out like, oh, we have this project that's owning. Like I think this client would be good. I think this client would be good. I think this client would be good.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: You know, and, and your boss is an agent with an MP lit and you're on his desk is just bringing it full circle here.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm on his desk.
[00:26:57] Speaker B: And so for you right now, after kind of digging into the process a bit of like the day to day, what aspect is like the most exciting to you right now?
[00:27:08] Speaker A: That's a good question. I think my favorite aspect sometimes a assigning pursuit is really fun because it's oftentimes like competitive with other agencies to sign someone who's a really exciting new voice, you know, or if. If they're leaving a different agency, it can also get competitive there.
Another one is just.
So we've been doing screenings. Sometimes we host screenings of Verve and like it's fun for me to put those on. A lot of times I'm in charge of like running the Screening and greeting the guests. I like that, too.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: Of course, we talk about signing and just digging into that and. And I guess there's two different parallels of, like, you know, the. The unsolicited, but then also the people who are leaving an agency or something and are. Now, do you guys call it, like, a free agent or something? Like, what's the.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: When there's, like, a new voice that people really like. Like, it honestly, like, and why, you know, like, it gets around, like, very quickly.
[00:28:15] Speaker B: Like, is it a. Is it a blacklist script? Like, how do people hear about a new voice? What is what? I guess it depends.
[00:28:22] Speaker A: Yeah, it depends, like, why. I'll let you do.
[00:28:24] Speaker C: The situations that I'm thinking about are when are, as you mentioned, when a client. When a writer is leaving their current agents and opening up for new representation. Because I feel like that's. That's where, like, the fire spreads fastest. From what?
[00:28:38] Speaker A: Yeah, like, let's say you. Like, someone can hear, like, a lot of times, like, when an agency. When an agent leaves to go be a manager or an agent leaves to go to a different agency, there like, become some, like, I think, you know, like, within the clients, like, there's some, like, room to come in and poach there because, like, there's more uncertainty. So, like, I think that's one big thing. Sometimes, like.
Like when. Honestly, like, when one agency catches wind of someone wanting to leave, like, it sort of gets everywhere. Like, it just, like, circulates through group chats, through tracking boards, through.
[00:29:14] Speaker C: Yeah, through. Also through, like, managers leveraging their clients to other agents and things like that. Because, you know, like, a writer can have an agent and a manager. So when I was working on the management side of things, it would. It was like.
There's no other way to describe it than, like, a game, right? It's like you're like, the manager will go to all these agencies and hear basically, the agency's pitch on why the client should sign with them.
And in those meetings, Verve is gathering a group of, you know, probably like, a partner and a couple other senior agents maybe, and someone who is a little lower level, who's doing, like, all the work, meaning they're figuring out exactly what OWAs are out there, that they can be like, oh, we think you should be doing this. We can plug you in, right? Like, just providing all the opportunities.
[00:30:02] Speaker A: People on different levels, like, who can, like, service the client in different ways.
[00:30:05] Speaker B: You're pitching. You're pitching the agency. I get it.
Then. Then, I mean, thinking about our audience, like, of the podcast even of, like, just these young filmmakers and young folks on the talent side, like, can you dig into. I mean, it almost sounds like an A R, you know, of, like, in music where you're just, are you scouring the Internet for talent? Are you, Are you going through, you know, just a pile of scripts from, from friends? Like, how do you, how do you find young, new talent? And what are you looking for?
[00:30:34] Speaker A: A lot of times, the blacklist, like you were saying, is a big launchpad for that kind of thing.
[00:30:38] Speaker C: But what happened wasn't every single person on the blacklist this year signed to a rep already?
[00:30:44] Speaker A: I think a lot of them were.
[00:30:47] Speaker C: I mean, congrats, because Verve was like, half of them. But, but, like, what the blacklist has.
And we should really get someone on to talk about the blacklist. But the blacklist, to me, has become a list of scripts that are already in production, right?
[00:31:03] Speaker A: It sort of has. Like, how did it get like that? You know, like, because it became like, I think it became, like, part of it became like, such a. Like, oh, we gotta get, like, all agencies and management companies. Like, we gotta get this video on the blacklist. Like, we gotta, like, you know, and it's like, it's oftentimes, like, scripts that are already known at this point.
[00:31:20] Speaker B: You know, what is it? Why do people trust? Is it the curation? Like, is it just great? Like, because I remember because the whole.
[00:31:27] Speaker A: Concept behind the Blacklist is that it's like, it's execs who are vote, like, execs with, like, a lot of, like, production experience who are voting on these scripts. Like, I think that's where the credibility comes from a lot of the time, you know?
[00:31:40] Speaker B: Okay, so then returning to Armand and what Armand looks for in fresh talent, young talent, or is it really just being on the black?
[00:31:53] Speaker A: No, no, no, no, no. I think, like, when I'm reading a script, like, having read so many, like, I'm really just looking for, of, like, a clear voice that feels, like, unique and commercial in a way. And also just, like, someone with, like, a good hook. Like, oftentimes, like, the most important thing, like, when I'm looking at something for rap, is like, how is the hook of the script? Like, do I read the first 10 pages and do I, like, do I need to get to the next page? You know?
[00:32:29] Speaker C: And do you. Yeah. Do you understand exactly what the script is in the first 10 pages and.
[00:32:34] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:32:35] Speaker C: How, how it is tonally and the characters are really strong right away. I, I, I think voicy is like, A sort of an underrated thing in scripts. I agree with you on that. Because a voice is so strong and from your side, as a rep, you're going to be pitching them for specific projects and you want to know exactly.
[00:32:53] Speaker A: Exactly. It's like, it's like can. It's like, sometimes it's like you pass on a good script, but, like, as a rep, you need to be able to read it A. You need to be able to, like, read it and like, tell other people at the agency. Like, spread awareness about it. Like, if it's really good, like, you need to have, like, multiple people on board. It can't just be you. Like, you want a team behind this person, right?
It's like. And also, like, it could be amazing. And you pass on it because you're like, I want to be passionate about it myself. Like, I want to be able to pitch on the script. Like, I know where this person's place is in the industry and, like, this is how I can pitch them. Like, when you're reading it, like, you want to be able to sort of like, start coming up with. I think I can, like, be helpful here. I think, like, I really get behind the story because X, Y and Z.
[00:33:40] Speaker C: You see, you share that clear. That clear vision. I can't tell you how many times I'll be like, listening to an agent on the phone that's pitching my boss's script. And I'm like, you never read this script. Like, you do not know what the script is. You know, like, it's. It's really beneficial as an agent to actually know what the script is and know how to pitch that writer and really clarify what their tone is.
[00:34:03] Speaker B: So you're saying Armand, like, back pocketing scripts almost of like, hey, let's. Let's pass on this. But I'm gonna keep this in my head for when I am looking to build a roster, basically.
[00:34:17] Speaker A: Well, I mean, like, if I really like a script for Rap, like, I will try to bring it up. I'll try to bring it up a, to Adam because he's my boss. And then sometimes I'll like, bring it up with the other agents that I'm friends with to see if I can like, build sort of like hype around it in the agency so that, like, maybe that's something that we can pursue. And it's the same thing with a director and their movie. You know, it's great.
So then, because pitching is the most.
[00:34:45] Speaker C: Important thing, it's a mini version of what you're doing. It's Like a mini version. It's an internal version of what you're doing outwards in the industry. Once you, like, actually have a client.
[00:34:54] Speaker B: Can. Can we dig into pitching then? Because. And I also remember this Arman of, like, in writing class and, like, you just kind of having a natural sense of. Of pitching, you know, and that. That is a skill, and only so much of that can be taught. But I'd love to dig into what pitching, like, those three, four sentences look like after reading a great script on a Sunday and bringing it to your boss on Monday.
Just because of.
I think it is really important to be able to hear that side on the filmmaking, on the writing side of things too, you know, for the writers listening of, like, how.
Or the key parts that are being pitched or something, you know.
[00:35:40] Speaker A: My process to pitching has, for the most part, been, like, a highlight. What I think the story is about, first and foremost, like, a quick. It doesn't have to give away the ending necessarily, but sometimes it does. Sometimes that's most helpful. Like a quick, like, one or two sentences about what the story is about and then, like, a lot. And this is something that I learned in that producing class that really, like, catapulted me forward, I think, in the industry was like.
And, like, why. I can also attest to, like, how much this is used. But, like, finding relevant comps for your script, whether you're a writer or an exec or an agent, like, it will help so much.
[00:36:26] Speaker C: So much color. Yeah.
[00:36:28] Speaker A: To what you're actually talking about. You know, like, tonally finding comparisons. I can't emphasize how important that is, how important it's been to me. Like, if you say, like, your script is like, oh, it's a comedy. Be about a bunch of guys, like, in high school.
[00:36:49] Speaker B: Mm.
[00:36:49] Speaker A: Okay. But, like, if you say, like, it's. It tonally feels like super bad. Like, people naturally, in their head, like, Superbad's an amazing movie. People will start, like, thinking, like, oh, it's like, super bad.
[00:37:02] Speaker C: Oh, they're thinking positive with this different.
[00:37:04] Speaker A: Like, oh, my God, Like, I totally want to check that out, you know?
[00:37:07] Speaker C: Yes. It can only help if you're saying that something is, like, super bad. It's like, you know, like, don't.
[00:37:13] Speaker A: Like, don't be like, oh, it's like morbius. Then people will be like, even if it is.
[00:37:19] Speaker C: Even if it is.
[00:37:22] Speaker A: But I do think that finding comps is so important.
[00:37:26] Speaker C: Completely. I also.
What I have observed is an agent will be pitching something to my boss and be like, I think you would Actually really like this. And to say I think you would like it personal to that person because I know you made the movie X a couple years ago and this kind of reminds me of that, but it's a little bit more like, you know, it's. Imagine if that movie met the Hangover. Right? Like something like that.
[00:37:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:57] Speaker C: To be personal to the producer and make that like person to person connection, I think is. Is really undervalued. Instead of getting right into just like I have the script and like it's, it can become sort of.
You hear too many of those like thing. It just, it just drowns out to some extent. So I think going person to person is really helpful.
[00:38:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:19] Speaker C: I wrote down referencing other films and talking about like, you know, why. Why this movie needs to be made. You know, like why. Why are you passionate about it?
[00:38:29] Speaker A: Why in this time as well?
[00:38:30] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, exactly, exactly.
[00:38:32] Speaker B: Why now? Such a funny question though. It should be like why in five years, you know, because it's like, right. But like.
[00:38:39] Speaker C: Yeah, but people are buying, you know, people are buying it now, you know, like.
[00:38:43] Speaker B: And people are buying what's current.
[00:38:44] Speaker A: It just works.
[00:38:45] Speaker C: Exactly, exactly. But. But also less than like why now? It's like why, why does. I said why does this have to be made? Which is, which is different than why now? Ideally it's a, It's a timeless thing of this needs to be made because it's going to bring people together because it has a devastating protagonist that I think a lot of people can relate to. Like things like that.
Absolutely. That's not right now. That's forever, you know.
[00:39:12] Speaker B: That's a fantastic point. I love that. Why does this need to be made? You know, it's. Yeah.
[00:39:18] Speaker C: And why now? Like, we were taking out a pitch earlier last year and it was because the writer has a teenage daughter and he's seen and he's seen what the daughter has gone through with being part of Gen Z and the inundation of information and things like that. And that's not gonna, that's. That's why now for him, you know, there's a difference between why now for him and. And why now for society at large.
[00:39:45] Speaker A: Can also apply to so many people, which I think like that would be.
[00:39:48] Speaker C: An effective pitch, you know, exact. Exactly, exactly. And. And if it doesn't apply to them, they understand it, you know, and they have a friend who, who goes through that or whatever. It may be so.
[00:40:03] Speaker B: Foreign.
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Yeah, Armand, here's a fun one.
Because you've done the writing thing and maybe you still are writing, but you're, you can, you can put yourself in the shoes of a young writer in, in the world before representation, when is the moment where they're like ready for representation? When do you think that like a young writer should start looking or pitching themselves?
Like, when is the right time for someone to look for an agent?
[00:41:37] Speaker A: That's a good question. And I think that is so like, variable. Like some, like. I think a lot of times, like manager will come before agent.
Something I noticed, like a lot of times manager will come before agent because sort of like manager will be stick with you through like the early stage of your career while you're still developing your voice because they believe in you from like a very early point. And this happens with agents too. But a lot like the trend I've noticed, like managers will really be around in the earlier stages and sort of like a manager will also help decide like when you're at a point that you're big enough that you're ready for an agent. You know, that will happen a lot. Like, I'm sure you worked for Huddle and that was like a lot of times like you would have people like, I think this person's ready for an agent now and you start introducing them to agents, you start taking signing meetings.
[00:42:30] Speaker C: Totally. And it's oftentimes when, when they've like booked a big project, you know.
[00:42:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:35] Speaker C: And. And then they're a hot rider and they need an agent to come in and because you guys are really on the ground with all those opportunities and the negotiation part of it, you know, like, that's. That's, I think, where an agent comes in.
[00:42:47] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think as a young writer, it's like, you should be looking for, like, opportunities. Like, there's a lot of, like.
Like just looking for any opportunity to connect with someone, even if they're, like, an assistant. Like, especially if they're an assistant or a. Like a young exec or a young manager.
Like, I, like. Like, those people are hungry. Like, you are. Right? Those people are hungry. Like, you are. Like, if someone. If someone, like, is a writer who's come recommended to me, like, let's say Wyatt recommends me a writer, he's like, dude, you should check this guy out. And then, like, another person recommends me the same person, and then this young manager recommends me the same person. Like, I'm going to want to read that script. I'm going to be passionate to read that script. Even if they're, like, a young voice. Because, like, I'm a young voice. You know, it's like, I. You want to find someone that you can, like, sort of grow with is often the most expect effective. You know, it's like, I think, like, truly, like, getting your script to as many people as you can is the most important thing. Like, a lot of times, like, you'll go to these pitch fests. Like, Like, USC will have a pitch fest, AFI will have a pitch fest. NYU will have a pitch fest. And like, you're not seeing, like, the older agents or managers really showing up at those. It's the assistants, the ces, and the coordinators, like, the younger people who are, like, itching to find someone new and find the next big new voice who are at these events. And totally, I've been to a couple, and I see a lot of managers there, and I've heard of people getting signed out of these things, you know?
[00:44:25] Speaker C: Absolutely. And I think, Luke, we can talk about how we do try to curate that sort of environment in 50 50. Like, we've. We've learned the power of having those coordinators in the room and those younger creative execs in the room, people our age and maybe two years older than us.
[00:44:42] Speaker A: Like, yeah, I see you guys at your fest. Like, you have people who are around our age, but who are in positions where they have reach.
[00:44:52] Speaker B: Right, Exactly.
[00:44:53] Speaker A: And I think that's the most important. It's not only having the reach, but. But also, like, having the willingness to really fight for someone who is just starting out. And oftentimes, like, those are those are the younger execs. And those are the younger people who are really like keeping their ear to the ground.
[00:45:07] Speaker B: Like you said it man, of, of growing together, you know, and that is the definition of 5050 and the hope for, for what we do, you know, so now that we've, we've covered that of like what Armand looks for, what a writer should kind of lean into.
I, I mean it is interesting hearing of like the, the different timelines of, of you know, manager coming in first and when it, when it's time you kind of set them up with an agent and you've spoken a bit about like what agents are really doing when it comes to even like pitching the agency behind them to a big hot writer that is just like left their prior representation in your head as like a young agent.
[00:45:56] Speaker C: Soon.
[00:45:56] Speaker B: I don't know the timeline, but like at some point agent, like what is the perfect agent? What does that human look like? You know, what are the, what are the skills?
[00:46:09] Speaker A: That's, that's something I'm still learning, to be honest. But I do think that it's someone who is a. Always reading, right.
Be keeping up their relationships in a way that's effective and meaningful.
Right. With exacts, with, with creatives and like. And see someone who has like a lot of passion for you. And it's like, I think it's very case by case, like someone who has a lot of passion for you and your work and someone who is really willing to go to bat for you.
I just think like those are the, I think like the most important things are like someone who's constantly looking to expand their network, someone who reads a lot and someone who's, who's generally passionate and that you get along with.
[00:46:58] Speaker C: Where do you think entrepreneurship and innovation comes into that in the sort of agency setting? Because one thing that I credit to Verve is like the short story craze that happened whatever two years ago at this point, like you, you guys had, you guys were early on that in selling short stories, I'm pretty sure, like that's. And how did that come to be? And are you guys always kind of looking for like the new sort of IP esque thing that you can be selling? Like.
[00:47:29] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I think like it is just like being aware of the industry, what is big and also like constantly finding creative ways to sort of like pitch and like sell material. I think the short stories are so smart because like sometimes you don't want to read a whole script. Sometimes like, sometimes like a short story can be so, so Effective. And also like, I think a director can read a short story sometimes and like see like they can like get behind and get more passionate about a short story because like, there's more canvas for them to explore. A lot of times like, you can drum up more excitement because like you can read a short story and be like, oh my God, like, I can totally see this direction we can go. And like two direct directors can have like completely different takes on where they see the short story going. Whereas a script, I think like sometimes can be like more outlined and be more like, this is the story from start to finish. Whereas a short story can sometimes be like a brilliant, brilliant first and second act. And it gives a director or a producer or like it gets them excited about like where this story could go coupled with the right development, coupled with the right partners, you know. That's why I think the short stories really took off, in my opinion.
[00:48:56] Speaker B: Yeah, our short stories, like full circle story, like you said, it's first and second act. Do they end on like some sort of like cliffhanger or.
[00:49:06] Speaker A: It's like, it depends. A lot of them do. A lot of them do end on a cliffhanger. That it's like, where can we develop this? You know? Why you probably read a ton of short stories that come in. Yeah, a lot of them are like that where it's like a brilliant, brilliant concept that still has room for interpretation and room for growth. And I think like a lot of times like being able to like as a director, put your stamp on something like that, you know, is super effective, like attaching early and like really having a say and like the process of going totally short story to script.
[00:49:40] Speaker C: But I would also, yeah, I would put the caveat there that you don't want it to be too open ended to the point where the people who are involving themselves to develop your script are, are not trusting you to like complete the story, you know, like.
[00:49:55] Speaker A: Yeah, that's why I think like short stories are like, they're honestly like just as hard as scripts in that way. Like they're super hard to nail because it's like you have a limited amount of pages, pages to really wow. And the content really has to speak for it's, it's.
[00:50:09] Speaker C: In a way it's like making a short film and then are people gonna trust you to make that into a full feature, you know, or writing a short film script?
[00:50:17] Speaker B: You know, how many pages is, is a short story?
[00:50:21] Speaker A: 20 to 60, I'd say, you know, around there.
[00:50:26] Speaker C: Yeah, I can second that. Yeah.
[00:50:28] Speaker B: Yeah, that's pretty cool. You just write a little. Little short story and then.
[00:50:32] Speaker C: Yeah, but it's not. But yeah, it's not as easy as you think. And I want to. I want to ask you, like, when. When that craze was going on and I guess it still is kind of going on, or it's settled itself as now just part of the.
The average amount of things that people. Yeah, exactly.
Are you guys approaching your clients and being like, hey, short stories are hot right now. Like, write one.
[00:50:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, like, that happens a lot. Especially like, sometimes if a client is already leaning into a short story and, like, we listen to the idea and we. We like it. It's like, we're like, yeah, go write it. You know, it's like the amount of short stories, like, I read on my weekend read is honestly, like, equivalent to now the amount of scripts I read too.
[00:51:16] Speaker C: Which is nice. Which is nice for you.
[00:51:18] Speaker A: Because it's nice.
[00:51:19] Speaker C: It is nice. Definitely.
[00:51:21] Speaker B: How. I know we're just firing questions at you right now, but how.
You're a knowledgeable dude, so it's, it's fun to learn.
How important are numbers on social media?
[00:51:34] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:51:34] Speaker A: Oh, my God. That's a good question. I think, like, semi important, you know, numbers on social media as a writer matter less. Like, it's like most writers have like 50 followers on Instagram, you know, they.
[00:51:50] Speaker C: Actually have less than average followers.
[00:51:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, seriously, they do. Like, I be. As a writer, it matters less. As a director, it maybe matters a little bit more, but still not that much.
I think, like, the places where social media has started to matter more, which is something that Verve doesn't cover. But, like, I'm interested in learning more about is like digital, obviously, like, follower account is like, everything because reach is everything. Because, like, I think getting people on to, like, brand deals is so important. And, like, the more reach you have, like, the more likely that gain is going to want to, like, be like, laundry.
I think, like, with writers and directors, it doesn't matter as much as your actual material and what you're putting out there, you know? And I think with actors, it started to matter a little bit more. But like, a lot of actors, it's like they don't want to be on social media, but, like, I think, like, sometimes that has more of a say with actors because they're more like public facing.
[00:52:58] Speaker B: I was going to say, I assume there's. There's some like, lower risk in quotes of like, okay, this person. A million people already like, this person or 100,000 people really like what this person is, is doing.
And it is, it's really interesting to hear just from that side of it of like, well you know, the biggest writers on the planet have 100 followers, you know, or the biggest directors a lot of times don't really not even have an Instagram, you know. But why? Yeah, what do you.
[00:53:29] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I think it's the, the idea that we're having this conversation is more like a signifier of the changing industry landscape.
And I would be curious to hear about from you Armand, just like what are the conversations at from the agency perspective with like the pending consolidation of studios, the change of, of viewership in terms of like YouTube is just growing and growing and you know, the studios have less and less pull in terms of viewership.
What are, what are those conversations like in terms of like then you know, in 10 years what it's going to look like?
[00:54:12] Speaker A: Yeah, that's, that's a good one.
I, I still like my hope, right? This is my hope is that like I love going to the movies, you know, I really do. Like I, I do think like the consolidation of the studios is like really not good for anyone in our positions.
But it's also just like a way of like having to think creatively and finding other avenues to make money with creators. I think like something.
[00:54:46] Speaker C: And that's where followers do count, right? That's where you start paying attention to follow.
[00:54:50] Speaker A: I think like something that is like getting big and is already huge is sort of like the verticals. Have you guys been hearing about verticals? Like like short form content? Like that's like, like the Darman stuff. Like yeah, there is like a real avenue there for like making money even though it's cringe.
[00:55:14] Speaker C: I was looking at a LinkedIn post yesterday that Darman posted and it was.
We had Brian Lord in the studio and I thought for a huge executive like that it would just be kind of like a stop by shake hand. But he stayed for hours and said that it reminded him of old time Hollywood. And I was like what is this world that Brian the the head of CAA is going to Darman Studio and hanging out with him for a couple hours like that that's a sign of.
[00:55:46] Speaker A: That'S a sign that there is something with these, with these like reels and like these like companies that are doing verticals.
[00:55:52] Speaker B: It's crazy micro dramas but you're, and it's really interesting because you're seeing the money is coming from brands A lot of times like there's this show on Instagram called Roomies. Noah Wolfson from UTA put me on a lot of these shows, like to view them because he's been super. Just kind of aware of this for a while.
[00:56:14] Speaker C: He's a previous guest on the pod and big supporter of 5050 and he's.
[00:56:18] Speaker B: In creators at UTA and so this is like what he does. And he's just been like. I mean there are these shows that are getting millions of views per episode and they're minute long episodes and it's all vertical content. They don't, they're not on YouTube, they're not on TikTok. It's literally Instagram.
And it's.
[00:56:35] Speaker C: And it's also, it's also on these like apps that people download. And I, I don't know.
[00:56:41] Speaker B: That's, that's not here yet at least. That's not here yet.
[00:56:44] Speaker C: Right. But I, I have a friend from NYU who's like acting in one of these.
[00:56:49] Speaker A: I've heard about these, like, a lot of like.
[00:56:52] Speaker C: And it's only on this.
[00:56:53] Speaker A: People our age are going there to be in these vertical dramas in China.
[00:56:59] Speaker B: That's. I know they're, they're outsourcing production to here.
[00:57:02] Speaker C: My biggest. Yeah, my big. I have a bunch of questions about that. And it's like, is it. If your goal, if you grow up here and your goal is to be an actor, like, okay, you go over there to do that. But is that at all like a path to then being in like, ideally you want to be in like TV and movies, right? Isn't that the end goal? Or is it. Or is that just what you are now?
[00:57:23] Speaker B: That is a movie, by the way. Like that, that is a, it's a.
[00:57:26] Speaker C: Movie cut into 500 little clips. You know, it's interesting, man.
[00:57:32] Speaker B: It's. It totally depends. I don't know.
[00:57:34] Speaker A: It's like stimulates the scrolling. It stimulates like the scrolling. It's like, look, I want to go to the next episode.
[00:57:41] Speaker C: I know. What about micro comedies? That.
[00:57:44] Speaker B: That's what's working. Why that. The micro drama stuff.
[00:57:47] Speaker A: I like those like the almost, like the Almost Friday guys.
[00:57:49] Speaker B: Yeah, almost Friday. But there, there are a good amount of shows popping up.
[00:57:53] Speaker C: What are the, what are they doing though? Are they. Is it like truly vertical stuff? And it's like vertical.
[00:57:58] Speaker B: It is truly vertical content. And it's.
[00:58:00] Speaker C: And it's like a two minute long sometimes, right?
[00:58:03] Speaker B: It's like a minute. Two minutes. I'll send you some stuff after. It's. It's interesting.
[00:58:07] Speaker C: It's really interesting.
[00:58:08] Speaker B: And definitely something to watch for because it's, it's working. Like these accounts are blowing up. It's crazy.
It's crazy. And Disney plus I saw is like implementing verticals on, on their platform now or something.
[00:58:22] Speaker C: Instagram is now going to be on Apple TVs. Like, you can. There's going to be an Instagram app next to YouTube. It's not, but.
[00:58:28] Speaker A: Oh my God, that's scrolling reels on.
[00:58:32] Speaker C: Yeah, that's.
[00:58:33] Speaker A: That's the world.
[00:58:34] Speaker B: It's.
[00:58:35] Speaker A: Imagine we walk in like 20 years. Like everyone's TVs have been mounted this way.
Oh my God. What does this world come to?
[00:58:43] Speaker C: That's crazy. But also the entertainment industry loves to freak out about stuff and say that a thing is.
No, exactly. It's always overreact, overreacting. It's always over. Investing in something and then having to pay for it, you know, and then pulling back, like, wait, exactly, exactly. And that's why there's so much drama all the time with layoffs and whatever it is, you know, like, that's why streaming was huge. And then everybody had to lay off a bunch of people because they were like, oh, we don't need this many people to operate this thing, you know, so it's like little boo boos, right?
[00:59:22] Speaker A: Everyone go.
[00:59:24] Speaker B: I think with, with spec, I can't speak to that other stuff, obviously. But with, on the production front, like with verticals, I think if anything, it's just another step forward into the world of opportunity thanks to social media and platforms like YouTube and Instagram and TikTok for young filmmakers to get their work seen, by the way. Right. And then bring this kid into, into Sony for that show, you know, it's.
[00:59:54] Speaker A: So much more accessible. As a creator, that's like the thing that interests me. It's like so much more accessible as a creator to make a Tik tok or make a YouTube video than like make a show, you know, it's like.
[01:00:06] Speaker B: It's true, man. It's true.
Yeah. And it's. Again, it's working. Like, we'll see where this stuff goes. But it's, it's really interesting to see the power in the hands of the creator, you know, and they're not having to rely on people for resources or anything like that. If anything, they post a season of a show on Instagram and a brand comes to them and says, we want to, we want to fund you guys for season two.
[01:00:28] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think it, it shows something about audiences that they aren't looking for something that's Uber polished or even starring someone who's been in a bunch of movies before. Like, audiences I think are more open to things that feel not unfinished but feel less polished and more authentic. You know, people that's. That's a huge takeaway. Like, where's the authenticity? Like, our generation is so good at sussing out when people are not being themselves.
[01:00:59] Speaker B: There's a real hunger for like real rawness, you know, which is interesting.
[01:01:07] Speaker C: It's our jobs to. And I've. I've personally been thinking a lot about this because I Armand, I also work at a company that has been doing one thing for a long. We've been making movies for, you know, seven to 10 years now and making TV for seven to 10 years now, which that's like a long time if you're a production company.
[01:01:28] Speaker A: Have there been conversations over there about this, like, and like, yeah, implementing this?
[01:01:33] Speaker C: Absolutely. And it's to me from a business perspective, it's more about diversification rather than shutting down the movie in TV arm and completely investing into one part. Because I think we've a through line in this conversation is that there's always going to be a craze of something and then it'll end up correcting back and settling into like where it actually is, you know, so it's not about.
[01:01:59] Speaker A: I've been like seeing it personally like pop up for me a lot. Like, is like the marketing has changed in a way where it's like a lot of times like an ad for a movie will be like integrated into like one of your favorite creators videos, you know, or like, like so it's like, it's like, it sort of like gets you to the theater that way. Like there's been so many vertical ads for movies and TV that are sort of like not like ads per se, where it's like, it's like, hey, like this is HBO saying watch this. Like, it's like your favorite creator, like is doing a bit like a public prank like based on something from the show and it sort of like reminds you of the show and you're like.
[01:02:39] Speaker C: Oh, to me it's like with HBO Max. And you're like, damn, Yes, I would exactly. I would much rather. I think they're getting more creative with marketing of how to actually spend marketing budgets, you know, like integrating it into.
[01:02:53] Speaker A: Instead of like being like an ad, like integrating it into like a social media trend that's already a big thing and making it just feel like real.
[01:03:00] Speaker C: Life, you know, here's what, here's what I'll say is that.
Say it costs $10,000 to get three celebrities from the movie in a room and do an hour long photo shoot. You could also spend that $10,000 paying a creator to make a vertical series tangentially having to do with the movie. That'll gain millions of views. And millions of people are now like, oh, shit. Like, I want to see that movie now. You know?
[01:03:28] Speaker A: Yeah. It's like smiling.
[01:03:30] Speaker C: Am I totally crazy?
[01:03:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:03:32] Speaker C: Yeah, right?
[01:03:33] Speaker B: I think. I think you're a little crazy.
[01:03:35] Speaker C: Really?
[01:03:35] Speaker B: I think. I think you can't. You can't. I mean, unless. You can, but unless it's pretty difficult to be like, this is gonna get a million views for sure.
Yeah.
[01:03:45] Speaker C: But if it's a specific person, you know, that's true.
[01:03:48] Speaker B: That's true. That's very true.
[01:03:50] Speaker C: And also, if you're spending $50,000, you get five people and you just need one of them.
[01:03:55] Speaker B: That too. Yeah.
[01:03:56] Speaker A: You guys remember the Minions Rise of Gru?
[01:03:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:04:00] Speaker A: Suit thing?
[01:04:01] Speaker C: Yeah. Gentleman.
[01:04:02] Speaker A: That was like, organic. That felt like organic. And like, it, like, it probably caused so many people who otherwise would not go see Minions the Rise of Gru because it became like an event, like, to go watch it in a suit and listen to the Yeet song, you know?
[01:04:16] Speaker C: Yeah, it's true.
[01:04:17] Speaker B: It's true.
[01:04:18] Speaker C: People were going crazy in theaters. They're, like throwing popcorn at each other.
[01:04:22] Speaker A: It's Minecraft. The Minecraft.
[01:04:23] Speaker B: That was insane.
[01:04:24] Speaker C: Oh, my. Wait, what was the Minecraft thing?
[01:04:28] Speaker B: Chicken jockey.
[01:04:29] Speaker A: It was a chicken jockey. And then, like, trash the theater and scream.
[01:04:33] Speaker B: And every time, AMC would just turn the lights on immediately. Guys, please, please, you gotta stop. This has to end.
[01:04:41] Speaker A: And then, and then it became like the countermeasure of, like, all the people. Like, guys, think about these AMC workers. Like, I'm starting. Hashtag amc.
[01:04:52] Speaker C: I love our generation. I love it. I love.
[01:04:54] Speaker A: Everything's a movement. Everything's a movement, bro.
[01:04:56] Speaker C: I know, I know.
[01:04:58] Speaker B: For a week.
[01:04:58] Speaker C: Made up.
[01:04:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Armand, we. At the end of every episode, we ask our guest one very short big question, which is, what is the dream?
[01:05:14] Speaker A: What is the dream?
Well, the dream for me is to do the absolute best that I can in this new job. Honestly, right now, that's my short term dream. And my long term dream is to, like, hopefully become an amazing rap or. You never know in entertainment how things toss and turn. But it's just like, my dream generally is to continue meeting amazing people, amazing creatives that I want to work with, continue expanding my network, and, like, as I grow, also to help people who are in college get their foot in the door in whatever way that they can. And I think, like, my dream is to, like, continue growing in my own right, but also helping others grow. And I think, like, that's. Any rap wants to do that in some way or another. And, like, so I think that's. That's where I'm at.
[01:06:10] Speaker B: Beautiful, man.
[01:06:11] Speaker C: Well said. Well said. Well, we. We really appreciate you coming on the show, and it's always good to catch up, and I'm sure we'll. We'll all get together at some point soon.
[01:06:20] Speaker A: We will. Luke, come to our dinner. Me and Wyatt are getting dinner in a couple.
[01:06:23] Speaker C: Yeah, we're getting dinner at the end of the month.
[01:06:25] Speaker B: Where are you guys going?
[01:06:26] Speaker C: Where should we go?
[01:06:37] Speaker B: Did you learn something? I'm like your mom. Did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging. Make sure you follow us at the 5050Fest on Instagram and give us five stars, because. Why not? Why not subscribe? Why not? You know why not. Okay, bye.
