Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Those are the ideas that I love best where kind of creating something that we would describe as a narrative object or a narrative space or something that you can build an advertising campaign around that's not just an ad.
And I think those are the most powerful bits of work. So, you know, our thinking was, what if we got 16 young creatives in a room with an amazing icon of creativity and let a conversation play out and then we could use that to create an amazing 92nd film. But it also makes for a great hour long piece of documentary and Q and A.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: I'm Luke Steinfeld.
[00:00:45] Speaker C: And I'm Wyatt Sarkisian.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: We made the 5050 podcast to support you on your filmmaking journey.
[00:00:49] Speaker C: 50% business, 50% creative.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Every Tuesday, a new how to.
[00:00:54] Speaker C: This week we talk with Luke Keeling, a creative director who displays exactly how working with brands can be just as artistically fulfilling as anything else. Enjoy.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: I mean, just to, to give some context here, Wyatt, I came across Luke's work on YouTube. It was the, the interview with Tyler, the creator, the Ask It Anyway series.
For those of you listeners who have not watched this, we'll put it in the description, but I think I emailed this to you, Luke, but it was easily one of the best YouTube videos I've ever seen.
Like just that space and, and 5050 we'll get into in a bit. But like so much overlap and, and just an established artist speaking to younger artists.
It really resonated with me and what we're doing and being able to talk to the dude that had a hand in that is really special. So thank you for coming on and I know you've also done so much and have a massive body of work already, so looking to talk to you about all of that.
[00:02:11] Speaker A: Amazing. Well, thank you for having me on. Yeah, it's.
It's been quite the journey on Instagram, but yeah, we can get into it and I can tell you all about it and how it came about.
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on.
[00:02:24] Speaker C: Yeah. And to reiterate, just some stuff that Luke said. Luke Steinfeld said it's just by doing some light research on you and your path and everything you do really in marketing and advertising, you do exist kind of in that 5050 space, which is 50% business, 50% creative.
And a lot of our audience are film school grads, people who are still establishing their creative voice. And oftentimes working with brands and working with guardrails sometimes is actually really effective in establishing your creative voice. So we definitely want to get into that as well.
And also the basics of how an advertising company works and what roles you've played in this space and everything I find really interesting. I work at a production company right now that has a large marketing arm. So for my sake, just to understand that better is, is also helpful for me. So there's, there's a lot of interest here. So we, we really appreciate you, you hopping on with us.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: No. Amazing.
Yeah, it's a, a unique world, one I didn't know about until I was about 18 and then kind of ended up becoming obsessed with the idea of, of doing this for a job.
I, I started off in a production company as well actually a post production company called MPC Moving Picture Company and they were pretty famous back in the day. I think sadly they've just shut down or merged with somewhere else. But everyone coming into there to have their work worked on their campaigns and stuff were, a lot of them were doing what, what is now my job and I was like, what's that? What are you working on? How have you got that job? And kind of, yeah, that was, that was how it all started. And then went, went off to university and stuff and then afterwards went to ad school which is kind of the usual route into the role. But yeah, I can get into all of that totally.
[00:04:29] Speaker C: What were those? So you were working at Moving Picture Company and what were those first interactions like with those, you know, those, those ad people?
[00:04:38] Speaker A: Yeah, it was super interesting. I mean everyone's so kind, you know, especially when you're starting out. I was, I was a runner so I was serving them coffee and stuff.
And then if you ask for advice, people, people are so giving and they know how hard it is to break into an industry like that. So I was just chasing them all the time, probably being a very annoying person in their inbox and just asking them lots of questions how they got into it. And the, the usual route is to, to get a creative role at an agency.
Uncommon calls itself a studio because, and I can, I can explain why later but to get into agencies as a creative you kind of need to go to ad school and there's loads around. A very famous one in Watford a lot of creatives used to go to, which was run by quite a famous creative director.
And then there's another one that's really popular now in Brixton but I actually ended up going to one in Stockholm called Bergs and it's a school of communication but I just wanted to do something slightly different and I'd heard loads about it and you go there and you kind of work on lots of kind of fake briefs really.
And you form a portfolio of work by being at the school and learning from people in the industry come and teach you. And I kind of always describe it as, it's like taking your brain out and putting it back in.
Yeah, because it's like, you're not taught to think like that at school.
Like lateral thinking to kind of solve business problems through creativity is quite a different form of like brain training.
So learning to take that leap and to get to advertising ideas was quite unique and hard work. But once you get into it, you kind of become obsessed with it.
And it's maybe why a lot of people in this industry work very hard, because it's kind of addictive in a way.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: In, in Stockholm, was or were those briefs for the most part from entertainment type companies, clients, or was it more of like a very widespread.
[00:06:52] Speaker A: A very widespread. Yeah, I, I'd say at the beginning it's kind of really important to learn to come up with ideas on all sorts of brands and businesses. And I think often the ones that are harder to advertise and I buy harder, I mean, kind of stuff that isn't so pretty and cultural, let's say.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: You know, how do you sell a plant potential or a banana or stuff that's literally asked of you at the beginning? It's like, sell me this stuff that.
[00:07:24] Speaker C: Won'T inherently entertain you. You know, one thing is selling, selling a TV show, but another thing is selling, you know, software or whatever it is.
[00:07:33] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And I think that's like, maybe you have to take bigger leaps. So that's why you do that at the beginning.
But yeah, it was good. It's interesting. But yeah, a lot of that. So a lot of student books, portfolios will have a lot of kind of those kind of brands in, you know, a washing powder or a Spec Savers, for example.
[00:07:57] Speaker B: Was there a, was there a project at your time there? And how, how long is that program? Is that? A year or two or is it.
[00:08:05] Speaker A: I was there for about six months, so not that long.
Yeah, I wanted to do that on purpose because I'd kind of done three years at uni. I studied English literature, which was amazing as well, and definitely helps in some ways with the job. But yeah, there are courses which are longer. Some people go to uni and do the full three years in advertising, and then other people, other courses are shorter. It just, it just depends and kind of depends what stage of life you're at, you know.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: But yeah, the Most popular one now, I would say is called SCA in Brixton. And a lot of younger creatives at Uncommon have gone there.
Yeah, it's, it's super cool. They're doing amazing stuff there.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: Was there a project that, that stood out for years, continues to stand out for you in those six months that was like, oh, it kind of clicked here of like, this is the type of work I want to be creating going forward.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: That's a great question.
I actually don't think I've ever been asked that. But yes, I would say, weirdly, we wrote a campaign for the Times, a bit of work.
And Bergs is really good at trying to get you to chase different shaped ideas. So you do a lot of kind of classic posters and all of that stuff, but they then try and get you to chase kind of different shape work. By that I mean kind of not billboards and TV ads and stuff like that.
And we just wrote a bit of work and you make a case study film. I think it was called the Real Times.
And it was just, the idea was just about kind of advertising, getting to the truth of, of stories and kind of, yeah, a bit like what the New York Times has eventually chased. Not that we came up with that work at all, but that, that's some of my favorite work, actually. Um, the New York Times is the truth is worth it. Um, an amazing creative team called Hugh and Laurie came up with that and I followed them for a while. They now run an agency called Isle of Any in New York and they still work on New York Times. But yeah, I just found that really interesting as a subject matter and I think that's what I've ended up doing in my career is kind of the stuff that I really like, fall in love with the story that you're actually telling or the theme you're chasing and speaking to in the narrative of the brand. And if I feel really inspired by that, I definitely write my best work. So, yeah, I guess that's why Instagram has been so fruitful, because the story of taking creative chances, which is kind of what it's all about, that's the kind of brand positioning, it's just like inspiring to me. Obviously we, we know this in our lives and our roles that it's a big deal.
So, yeah, chasing those stories is what I've always loved.
[00:11:05] Speaker C: It's amazing.
I have one quick clarification question and then one larger scope question. But is Uncommon, are most of these companies international? And do you guys do international gigs or are you mostly UK Based.
[00:11:22] Speaker A: Great question. I think that to begin with, when Uncommon started because it, you know, they're only actually seven years old, the studio, which is kind of mad considering everything they've done.
[00:11:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:33] Speaker A: And the size. Size of clients they now have.
At the beginning, I think there was a fair few more UK based. They've done. They did in the past. Have done. I actually have worked on some stuff as well for bnq, which is like a famous homeware DIY brand in Britain and ended up doing probably their best work ever. And it's amazing. Super emotional. Which I don't think anyone thought a DIY brand could kind of get to.
But now they're bigger. Yeah. Lots of global brands. They've also.
We have studios in New York and, and Stockholm.
[00:12:11] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:13] Speaker A: But we run a lot of US based brands and other brands out of the uk.
Instagram, I think a lot of people think that that comes out of the New York studio. But it's actually a team over in the UK and always has been. We pitched them and won them and all the rest of it all out the uk.
[00:12:31] Speaker C: Well, we're making that known now. This is exclusive.
You finally get credit where credit's due. I love that.
[00:12:39] Speaker A: Yeah. I think even in the press, there's advertising magazines and stuff. Like there's one campaign and Ad Age and stuff and they all wrote that it came out of the New York.
[00:12:50] Speaker C: Studio and you're just grinding your teeth. You're like, yeah, exactly. They're so lovely in New York.
[00:12:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. Well, here we go. Now everyone will know.
[00:13:02] Speaker C: I love that. And then earlier you mentioned, you know, very simply, your job is to solve business problems with creative solutions.
And I'm curious if we can dig into that a little bit more because I assume that the problem for every business isn't just we want more people buying our stuff. I assume it's sometimes a lot more specific.
So if you wouldn't mind just taking us through. Like what does a briefing look like when they, they reach out to you guys and they send the. Whatever. If it's a PowerPoint presentation of this is what we want you guys to do and these are the problems you guys are solving. What does that look like? Exactly.
[00:13:42] Speaker A: Yeah. So I'll use Instagram as an example just because it's freshest in my mind, I guess.
But they'll come to us and they'll meet with our strategy team first and foremost and the kind of account team and they'll get into the heart of kind of what they need to solve and what Instagram came to us with is that they wanted to stand for creativity.
They knew that, but they didn't know.
Not that they didn't know, but they needed a partner to kind of come up with a platform so that they could tell that story. And they haven't really done brand campaigns ever. They're 15 years old.
And. But now there's like a kind of rising tide of TikTok and other apps coming out. And also in the wake of AI, I think, as well that, like, things are changing. Um, and so I think standing for creativity right now is kind of more important than ever in. In. In standing for humans and creative people.
And I think Instagram, as we all know, kind of exists.
Its foundation is the people that make on it, um, the creators. And so standing for what they do, um, and shining a light on that was. Was always going to be really powerful.
But I think we went through quite a process at the beginning of breaking down exactly what they should stand for and what the enemy would be.
And eventually got to this do it anyway idea, which was very simple, that it always is the best platforms are.
And the thought was that, you know, we all have this internal monologue. There's an amazing piece of writing called the Lies We Tell, our ideas, and we got inspired by that. And it's all about, you know, we all have these inner doubts, these fears, and when you create, you overcome them.
And that was just like a really lovely human tension and truth at the heart of all the work.
And. And honestly, the first thing we ever showed them was a prototype film of that title. Film, huh? Yeah, that was. That was what kind of broke through and got shared around their whole company.
And then we showed them tons of other work as well. But we just kept coming back to that original film. It just felt really new, the thought of an ad that was actually a conversation between, you know, someone who's done it anyway, meaning Tyler, and someone who was planning to or wanted to, but had things they needed to overcome. And that just felt really honest and true to the platform.
[00:16:33] Speaker C: It really, really resonates because I think one of the biggest fears of our generation of Gen Z is putting yourself out there. And there's so much out there that I feel like that fear is the main reason why people are scared to post a grid or to post a reel or put themselves out there in a creative way. And I think that's.
It's a big thing you guys are sort of taking on with that campaign.
[00:17:03] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
It's exciting as well, because that was kind of just the tip of the iceberg, I think like it's the kind of platform where now we're looking towards the future and we're creating work that's, that's coming up next year and there's so much to explore. We've now got a kind of five year plan with them and we know, we, we know some of the stuff we're going to be making, you know, in a couple years time already because it's such a fruitful platform and territory and place to play which sometimes can make things difficult because it's almost like such an open brief. It's like crazy.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: Were they, were they asking for. We're looking for a campaign from one to five years here. Like what is that usual?
[00:17:45] Speaker C: Yeah. How did that relationship develop?
[00:17:48] Speaker A: Yeah, so I think the best brands build a platform and then stick with it. You know, Nike just do it has been going on for however long and they've stayed with Wieden and Kennedy, the agency that started in Portland the whole way through. And I think that's probably the best example ever of an advertising platform.
That's the. Yeah, so that's a good question as well.
Speaking like everyone would know what I'm talking about. But when a brand comes to us we'll pitch them a platform first and foremost and then out of that can roll numbers of campaigns and then the best ones will, will last for years and years. And I think, you know, we're doing it with British Airways and have done for quite a few years now.
The original platform idea was just about originality and that British Airways is the original British airline and then they stand for originality and it's all its forms and that might mean taking an original trip or finding original stuff when you travel and also the people at the airline. So yeah, I would say that the best brands will build long lasting platforms and I think the best agencies or studios will, will be a part of that the whole way through.
And I think Uncommon is doing that really well. I think it's very hard nowadays. I think brands, because of how fragmented our lives are and social media and everything that we watch and do that brands can be quite quick to change. But actually sticking with a platform, sticking with an idea and being consistent is super powerful. And then it often leads to much braver and bigger work because you start to trust when you see the results of it.
[00:19:41] Speaker C: I'm sure the goal is always to you know, do that sort of, I don't want to call it a trial run because it's more official than that, but you do that year relationship and then you're like, let's extend it to five. You know, like, let's, let's really, let's become one of those long term clients. I'm sure that's, that's always the goal, 100%.
[00:20:02] Speaker A: And I think, you know, the brand, when it's going well, couldn't be happier. I mean, with Instagram, we have, we work on their brand stuff and their creators stuff. So there's two separate work streams and kind of two separate teams, their side behind that.
And we bring in different people depending on the shape of brief and the type of work.
But the rings work we just did. I don't know if you've seen that.
And now there are these gold rings living on the platform.
That was for their creator's side of the work.
So that brief was.
We want to recognize creators, we want to recognize the people on the platform who do this for a living. And it's a slightly different platform in a way for them. It's still about doing it anyway, but they're on their journey already. This isn't like them kind of putting themselves out there for the first time. They do this for a living. So it was much more kind of the thinking and the narrative behind it was all around kind of celebrating them and, you know, encouraging them to keep being bolder and braver and having an understanding of the fact that, you know, this is their livelihood, which is, which is amazing and will lead to incredible work because of that.
Um, but rings was just the spot of that.
[00:21:24] Speaker B: Can I, can I ask, like, because you say you pitch a platform, how much of what you're building out, like with these Ask it Anyway videos, do it Anyway, like the shorter cut clips and then also these rings, which I assume will lead to conversations whether with fellow creators with rings at a summit or dinners, or like them speaking in these Ask it Anyway type videos.
Was this all prepped or are you like actively like, oh, what if we invite Gabriel Moses to come and do this talk? Or like, what if, like, is it an open conversation for those five years or is it like day one? This is, we know going into day one. This is the plan. This is the five year plan.
[00:22:14] Speaker A: It's evolving. But you know, you're constantly doing work together. Know we speak to them every day as a, as a client like that and are constantly discussing work and sharing new ideas and talking about new briefs and, and all the rest of it. Ask It Anyway happened to be something that we came up with at the very beginning. That conversation and it's led to just a really beautiful format. And I think it's quite rare for a brand to have almost what is an entertainment format in a way like that, something that can be an hour long documentary but then actually can be used for advertising as well. And those are the ideas that I love best. Where.
And Nils, our founder, speaks about this a lot and it's a massive thing for the studio is kind of creating something that we would describe as a narrative object or a narrative space or something that you can build an advertising campaign around that's not just, just an ad.
And I think those are the most powerful bits of work. So you know, our think, our thinking was what if we got 16 young creatives in a room with an amazing icon of creativity and let a conversation play out and then we could use that to create an amazing 92nd film. But it also makes for a great hour long piece of documentary and Q and A as well.
So yeah, that was, that was something that we had in mind very early on. But then Rings was one of those ideas which was presented as part of lots of other work, but everyone kind of knew that there was something really, really powerful in it.
And then once we shared it with, with Instagram, we kind of just ran at it and blew it out.
And then you, after that, once, once everyone's behind it and the studio and the brand are all for it, then you just think about how to launch it and what's going to be the best way to do that. I think an idea like that lives or dies on how you put it out into the world.
And so, yeah, lots and lots of conversations about that. And it's not a, not a small.
[00:24:32] Speaker B: Platform, not a small client, you know.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
And yeah, putting something out for a platform that's got 3 billion people using.
[00:24:42] Speaker C: It is, there's, there's, I'm sure there are so many conversations about timing and about when's the right time to release this and maybe delays come about or it's the wrong day in the, in the world. Like it's, you're thinking about the whole world while, while doing this stuff, which I assume is, is very exciting.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: Is this like a pinch me moment for you working with a platform with 3 billion people? Or is it kind of like this is my everyday what are we doing?
[00:25:12] Speaker C: And there's a right answer here, by the way.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: Yeah, no, of course it's crazy. Like, you know, it's a very unique situation and I think it's a pleasure and I guess I do feel lucky in some ways to be working on one of the biggest brands in the world.
But yeah, I guess it becomes your everyday when you are working on it every day. But no, there's many pinch me moments and I think with Instagram as well, the possibilities are incredible in terms of who you can potentially work with. And, you know, having gone out there and made a couple of campaigns for them now, you know, there's a lot of love for the platform that we've built with them, this do it anyway idea and the potential of it.
And I think because we're working on a platform about creativity, obviously when you're working with creatives, there's a lot of love for it and what it could achieve. And I think Instagram, due to its size, has of course, a lot of, a lot of power and influence. And I think if used in the right way, it could be super powerful.
And the idea of encouraging, you know, the world to be more creative and to put their work out into the world is amazing. So, yeah, no, it is definitely a pinch me moment for sure. And getting to work with people you've always dreamt of working with is amazing.
[00:26:46] Speaker C: It's really interesting to me. I keep thinking about just that intersection between the creative and the business because Instagram, from their perspective. And I won't make you speak on, on behalf of them, but I'll, I'll speak on behalf of them. There's a lot of, there's, there's more competition than ever. At the same time, there's YouTube, there's TikTok. So they are thinking, how do we keep creators on this platform? Everybody's thinking about that, right? YouTube is thinking about that. Netflix is now doing podcasts. YouTube is scared. Spotify has a deal with, like, all these things are happening all over with creators and keeping creators on the platform. So that's, to me, that is the big issue that they come to creatives like you guys to help solve, right?
So I just, I find it super interesting. And you know, something that I'll add to that is my colleagues who I work with who do the same job that you do are some of the most creative people I know. Oftentimes I'll walk into the office, I'll go into my little office, I'll be scheduling for two hours straight doing nothing creative. And I overhear them laughing and talking about, you know, like the craziest stuff. How do we incorporate nostalgia into this campaign and tell a full story? And I'm like, I wish I was in that table, in that room doing that you know, like, it's, it's really.
I just think that it is a testament to. You guys are really true artists and you do care so much about narrative and storytelling and all of that.
[00:28:18] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. I mean, I now can't imagine doing any, anything else because I guess I've always done it for pretty much my whole working life apart from working at that production company.
And so it just feels, it feels like my everyday because of that. But no, it is, it is an amazing job.
And yeah, the conversations you end up having are they have to go to those levels and places because I think that's where the best work comes. Comes from. I remember one of the first bosses I ever had creative directors used to ask, what's the worst thing we could do? And it's such a good question. When you're thinking about ideas and trying to come up with stuff is to just go to the extremes and then, you know, find something that, with interest in it or a truth that you obviously would never put out into the world, but then you can bring it back and, and, and, and it will lead to, to something really powerful and interesting.
I think the worst thing anyone could be, I mean, my biggest fear is put out something that's just mediocre, I guess, or bland. I think advertising, especially now with how flooded the world is and how much we consume and it's is thrown at us from a kind of media point of view and on social media as well.
It has to be interesting, it has to be extremely something, otherwise no one will care about it.
[00:29:45] Speaker B: Advertising space is like. Because that's why it's saying it's that mix, you know, can we dig into your role like your day to day and even I guess looking at this Instagram campaign too, like what exactly are you doing with these Ask It Anyway videos or just the campaign as a whole? Like what is that day to day for you?
[00:30:08] Speaker A: Great question.
So with the Tyler element of the campaign, so what we ended up doing was we had the Ask It Anyway series and then we also were shooting a load of billboards and stuff stills as well. So an idea called Button, which just came from a very simple thought around pushing the upload button.
So my role would be originally to come up with the work. So to write the work, come up with the ideas, find references, write story. You know, you storytell everything. So every time we are sharing work with Instagram, everything is in a deck and everything is story told. So that, and it's you kind of forging the narrative that will then come out in the campaign, you know, whether that's in a film or in the press around it or whatever it might be, you're kind of forging that story the whole way through. So there's a lot of storytelling, a lot of ideating. I think getting to the right idea is. Probably takes the most time. So there'll be rounds and rounds of trying to find that, that best idea. And then you kind of. Once an idea is bought, you then go into the next phase, which is you're kind of in pre production and, you know, for the. Tyler, ask it. Anyway, we had to, you know, this was totally new because we hadn't done something like that before. And it's often the way, you know, you're constantly searching for a new idea.
That's the best work is when it's new and it's original.
And then when you have to make it, no one knows because no one's done it before. And that's kind of part of the joy of it. But we had to find a location, make sure all the set design looks right and who was going to shoot it and what that was going to look like. And then at the same time, for the 92nd film that went out as the ad, we had to search for a lot of archive footage and we had a mix of kind of stuff that we found on the platform, on Instagram, also a lot of kind of beautiful abstract shots throughout that film. So we were finding that.
And then as soon as it's made, you go into edit and there's a lot of edit time, finding the right track obviously ended up with going for one of Tyler's, but you go through a lot of process of using a lot of different tracks on a film like that, that big and going out to that audience. And then obviously, as well as cutting the 90, we were then cutting the hour long doc and also shorter cuts and all the rest of it. So I guess that's kind of a long way around of saying that my.
[00:32:58] Speaker B: Job is just, you do everything.
[00:33:01] Speaker C: I think you've mentioned every possible thing.
[00:33:04] Speaker A: Actually, I'm not doing all of that. There's an incredible team around, of course, and we're, you know, there was other creatives working on it as well.
Producers, account managers, editors, loads of people. We're all doing that together. But my job specifically will be any creative decision from what color the sofa should be and what type of sofa it should be to, you know, the questions that Tyler's being asked to try and get out the right conversation. I think that was one of the things we spent most time on was preparing all the young creatives with questions so that we would get the right types of conversation.
[00:33:43] Speaker B: Interesting. So those were.
Those were shaped by you guys.
[00:33:48] Speaker A: They were. They were shaped, but out of us having conversations with the young creatives. So we worked with an amazing director called Posey Dixon, who is a doco director and has made brilliant documentaries.
And there's a moment in one of her documentaries where the lead kind of person in the doc, the person that she's following, has a host a concert, and at the end does a Q and A. And there's a beautiful moment where someone asks a question from the audience and there's a conversation unfolds. And so we were like, Posey, who managed to construct that moment and create that and make it the heart of her film, would be the perfect person to work with on this.
And that's what's amazing about the job, is I learned so much from her around documentary and constructing moments like that. I guess you watch a doco and it all feels so authentic. And I guess that's the skill, right?
They're kind of masters of making everything feel so real when actually way more than we know will be constructed.
Not in a bad way, not in a way that should make us not see it as artful, because it most definitely is. But I think with documentaries, it's very much about getting authentic conversations to happen by just preparing people and getting people thinking in the right way.
You know, it would have been really boring if Tyler and the young creative Trinity had just talked about practical stuff, you know, how to put up a tripod.
But it was far more interesting for them to speak about our vulnerabilities as humans.
[00:35:31] Speaker B: Every. Every question, like, even in the Fred. The Fred again, one that just came out as well, of, like, every one of these questions, whether it's like, super. Like, I have this super unique sound and other people want me to play it differently.
Like, on a. On a simple level, like, I can't really relate to that. But then, like, on a deeper, just, like, broader. Like, my voice versus what other people think about it, you know, like, every question might have felt super specific, but.
[00:36:05] Speaker C: Because of that, it was super resonant. Yeah, super resonant, for sure.
[00:36:09] Speaker B: So you guys did. I mean, I didn't. I didn't even. I. I knew those questions were prepped for sure, but I didn't even think about, like, oh, of course. This was something that Luke also. Or in his team, like, also worked on or worked with these kids, like, make These great questions.
That's really interesting. I didn't know that.
[00:36:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that that's one of the things which is. And I think Uncommon has been so involved in all the work that's come out with Instagram in the last year and a half.
And probably from an industry's perspective, no one really has any idea that how much of it has been a collaboration between us and Instagram and probably things that just come out of Instagram. But yeah, we've been involved in.
You know, Rings is an amazing example of that where literally strategy, concept, curation, casting, every asset that went round out around that piece of work was coming through the studio.
So, yeah, it's quite amazing what quite a small team can be capable of doing. And it's obviously, you know, creating an annual award, quite amazing to be a part of. But yeah, everything's gone through the studio and Uncommon's got an incredible design team, graphic design team, who has created literally every asset that for the campaign and everything that went out around Rings and it really was quite a feat. But yeah, it's very cool to be.
[00:37:47] Speaker B: A part of what, what happens with the other clients during like, they're all.
[00:37:54] Speaker C: Like, hey, we're here too.
[00:37:57] Speaker B: You know, I mean, it sounds like, how do you not spend all day? Because clearly you're so passionate about this and it seems like the entire team is involved.
Like, how do you, as a creative agency and being in the role you're in, like, make sure that the other clients are feeling supported or seen or are you guys just saying, like, hey, no, like we, we don't have not. No, but you know what I mean, like, are you having conversation? How do you keep them happy? I guess is the question.
[00:38:25] Speaker A: That's an amazing department. I mean, Uncommon's very good at kind of casting creatives on the briefs that they're right for. And then once you form a relationship, you. You generally will stick with them for a while.
You know, it's good to mix it up and to work on other brands and it's, you know, we're always chasing to be working on stuff that's new. But if you form a great relationship with the brand, then you kind of stick with it. So there's an amazing other teams that are on the other brands, you know, obviously great friends of mine because I've worked a four years now, but, you know, the Ordinary has been putting out incredible work and has a incredible team behind it.
British Airways as well has been doing, doing similar and we've just won BT and there's another team working on that. And so, yeah, just very capable people and lots of different kind of clusters of teams that form around a project.
And I think that's.
That's the best way at it, I think, because you have kind of four or five people who are your spearhead on a brand, and then, you know, people will plug into them and do different bits of work. But you really need, like, a core four or five people who are. Who are really on it every day to make that kind of stuff work, especially in the latter parts when you're producing it and it's about to go out.
How.
[00:39:51] Speaker C: How competitive does it get when you're campaigning for a client and there's two, three other, you know, companies, and, like, is it like Mad Men where you're like, oh, we're gonna try and sabotage, you know, like, how crazy does it get?
[00:40:08] Speaker A: It's funny. What's that?
[00:40:10] Speaker B: I killed a guy last week.
[00:40:12] Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny because what's weird about pitching is you never see the other agencies or studios.
[00:40:22] Speaker C: Right.
[00:40:22] Speaker A: Unless you kind of bump into them into the. In the corridor, in the.
[00:40:25] Speaker C: In the elevator. So, yeah, exactly.
[00:40:29] Speaker A: Have an awkward moment and try and not talk about the work you're about to share.
But, yeah, no, I. It gets very competitive, I think, you know, especially now, very sadly, there's agencies closing down and all the rest of it. And I think that the pool of agencies that are making brand campaigns and ones of a certain level and type are kind of shrinking the amount of agencies actually working on that stuff. So those pitches are super, super competitive.
And I think what's brilliant about Uncommon is the way they pitch. We pitch.
It's taught me a lot about a certain style of writing and a certain style of presenting and shapes of work.
You know, the. The philosophy of the studio is to only pitch work that we want to make. I think I've been at other agencies where they have been at fault of making work because it would appease and please the client. Uncommon will only make work that it really believes in, and I think that's an amazing thing. And also creatively for the department, it's amazing for us because we're only ever pitching and writing work that we feel passionately about, and hopefully it shows.
[00:41:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:50] Speaker C: And then on the other hand, when you are approached by a potential client, what are those conversations like? And because I assume you don't do every, you know, work with every brand who approaches you, I'm sure there are brands who see the meta stuff and they're like, oh, we you know, we want you to do the same for us. How do you guys sort of select who you work with on that other side?
[00:42:14] Speaker A: Yeah, so you're. You're totally correct. We're very selective.
Say no to a lot of clients.
I think one question that the founders always ask when they're in the room with new clients are, why are you here?
And if they can answer. If they answer and say, oh, we saw that metal work, or, oh, we saw that British Airways poster, then, you know, then. Then they're in. That's a great start because they are there for the right reasons.
[00:42:43] Speaker C: Right, right, right.
[00:42:45] Speaker A: And so that conversation always happens, and then once you get into it, we kind of see if they're. If they're up for it, and they. They have the same values and align with the same values as usual, which is, you know, making work that's. That's. That's genuine and powerful and has a truth and that has the chance of being famous. We talk a lot about fame, that being, you know, making work that, you know, is going to get seen by a lot of people and have an impact and actually has a chance of getting into culture.
You know, we talk around. Around that a lot. And I think, you know, if the brand doesn't align with that philosophy or desire to make that kind of work, then we find out quite quickly, and, you know, then it's just not the right fit. Otherwise you're going to be clashing and we'll be sharing work with them that they don't want to make.
[00:43:35] Speaker B: Does that mean bold? Like, does that mean trying to create things unique, to be unique, or does that mean, like, what does the brand need? Because it is such an interesting. Because you don't. You don't want to appease the brand, as you're saying, but you also want to make sure that you're making it look like something Instagram would shoot, you know, like, aesthetically and tonally, all of that, 100%.
[00:44:00] Speaker A: I think, you know, it's always a relationship, and I think it's something that we're always making work that we think will be best for the brand. We ask ourselves the question often, you know, if we owned the brand, what would we make? What would we want to do?
You know, what. What would we do to grow the business? And, you know, for Instagram, it's. It was super important for it to feel authentic to them because it was going to hit harder.
I think that the fact that it felt true to the platform in the sense that's the kind of Conversation you could have wandered across by being on Instagram and suddenly seeing a conversation like that happen and then to evolve that into a bigger brand story. You know, the, the, the piece of thinking we wrote when we first chatted to Instagram about it was this will begin as Tyler come having a conversation with a young creative about taking chances and, you know, will become him talking to a whole generation about that.
And that was the aim of it, is that that conversation and Trinity, the, the young creative who features in the, in the kind of main 92nd film, she kind of represents all of us, right? All of us who have those fears absolutely want to go out and do it. So, yeah, that, that was really important and I think, you know, that was something. That was an easy one. We all aligned on that from the very beginning.
That that was. That would be how it should look and how it should feel.
Other stuff is trickier.
[00:45:40] Speaker B: What was the prototype? Because you mentioned you guys shot a prototype. Was Tyler actually in that or was that like, what is that just kind of a proof of or a spec.
[00:45:51] Speaker A: So we do this a lot, actually.
I feel like I'm almost editing a film a week or every couple of weeks. And we do it because it's the best way. It's the easiest way for the company to all get behind something so that can be shared around Instagram, everyone understand exactly what they're chasing and ever. And the most important bit is everyone can feel it. So what we did and we found a conversation of Tyler having a conversation with a young creative that happened, this happened a few years ago. And what we did is we took that and then we cut a film to it, we put a track on it, added all the imagery that we, like felt was. Was right and what we wanted to do. And it was all about chance taking and all the rest of it. And then we just put the film together and then we knew that we would eventually then go and shoot it. But it's just, you know, that one was a. Was a great one because sometimes it's hard to cut a film together to convey the idea, but for that one, you know, finding that that conversation was kind of the breakthrough moment of that.
[00:46:59] Speaker C: Do you guys have any interest in. I know you're. I'm going to make you speak on behalf of the whole company at this point, but do you guys have any interest in being like a name brand where people see a British Airways ad and they're like, that's an uncommon ad. Like, besides Ad Age culture, like, are you interested in having a.
Being more of a media company than just like, the people that we don't know are behind the meta ads.
[00:47:29] Speaker A: 100%. I couldn't have said it better, Wyatt.
Everything you just said is absolutely true.
The founders say we want the studio to be a reference point, and that's exactly what the studio is chasing as well. I think, you know, we do a lot of work beyond just stuff for brands.
We recently just produced a film with Benedict Cumberbatch called the Thing with Feathers, and we do a lot of stuff that's kind of, I guess you could call it, extracurricular. I mean, one very fun thing that just came out, a good friend of mine, Joe Creative, came up with this idea to make an advent calendar that was just full of painkillers because everyone, as we know, is partnering all of December.
And now, you know, he's. He had the idea, he went and made it with a couple of other people, and now they're, they're selling it for real. And that's just, you know, a proactive project. And I think.
I don't know anywhere else that does as much proactive kind of extracurricular work as uncommon.
And that is, Is so brilliant. I think, you know, that's. There's one idea at the minute that unfortunately I can't share because it's not come out yet, but there's something I'm working on that's a, That's a proactive thing that's super exciting and is, is. Is not with any brand. And I think having the opportunity to do that as well is amazing. And I think that will be in my head. That's, that's the future of the industry. Where or. Or studios or, or of agencies is that to create work that's not just for brands.
I think Red Bull's the reference point in some ways. The way their company captured. And Red Bull the media company or the energy drink.
[00:49:21] Speaker C: It's true. I think it also is kind of a necessity. Right. Because as you mentioned, the industry is changing so rapidly, and you kind of want that transparency as a brand in a way of not being the sort of. We're hiding behind our work like we are, you know, we, we want to be recognized for our work at this point. It's, It's a really.
It kind of all gives me chills. Like it's a, It's a very interesting part of the world that, that you're, that you're in. Are you, Are you guys having, Are you having conversations about the overall advertising industry and. Because obviously there are companies that are consolidating and things like that. So are you, you know what, what are those day to day conversations like?
[00:50:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's almost a motivator, I guess, to kind of evolve and become multifaceted and have all those different arms to the, to the studio.
It's not only exciting for everyone that works there, but it's actually, you know, good business as well. Yeah. Because that is, as you say, the landscape of media and advertising. It's all changing very rapidly.
And so I think it's, it's a massive kind of future proofing thing to as you say, function a bit like a Red Bull or, and become more, more like a media company rather than just kind of singularly doing advertising for brands. I think, you know, I'm obsessed with a 24, as I'm sure you guys are. Also.
[00:51:00] Speaker C: I was just about to mention, like there are like blumhouse. Right. Or a 24. They have a notable. Like you see a movie and you're like, that's an A24 movie or that's a Blumhouse movie. And, and that's eventually the goal. That's the ultimate brand recognition. Right.
[00:51:15] Speaker A: 100%.
And I think, you know, uncommon is in my mind getting close to that. I guess it's quite hard to see the woods from the trees when you're, of course, in an industry.
[00:51:25] Speaker C: Believe me, I understand that. It's. It's hard.
[00:51:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
But no, I, I think a 24, you know, is, is, is amazing. And not only their films, but also how they do everything they do around that, you know, they've got a shop. The, the campaigns they do around them don't feel like campaigns. They invest in brilliant ideas around films and in the, in the film world as well. And, and in their. Everyone that, you know, they're acting and their directors, they always do such interesting stuff and they really do feel unique in that sense.
[00:52:02] Speaker C: It's unexpected. Right. You never know, but, but you're following it because it's a 24, right? You never know. Like they, Luke and I talk, have talked about. They just bought a, they bought a theater in the West Village in New York. You know, like that that's, it's so unexpected. But then people are like, well, I gotta go. You know, like that. And they had the appeal there.
[00:52:24] Speaker B: They have like a little restaurant there now too. I have a, I have a fun question for you, Luke.
If you were to start a creative agency tomorrow, what would be the first few steps you'd take?
[00:52:42] Speaker C: This is specifically because our audience you know, are the people who might be inspired by this. Right. So this is. We want to sort of curated, I.
[00:52:51] Speaker B: Guess if you were playing consultant. Right. If you're playing creative agency creation consultant.
[00:53:01] Speaker A: It's a pretty good question. I would personally set up an agency and make it all around working with culture brands.
And the reason being is that I feel my voice creatively. I think every creative kind of finds their voice at some point in their career, works best on those kind of brands. And by coach brands, I mean ones that are naturally in an element of popular culture. You know, fashion, music, sport, all the rest of it.
And I would try and future proof it like why it's talking about by making it function as more of a media company. It would be an ideas company and it would come up with the best and most brilliant ideas for those brands and for the worlds that they play in. So yes, we might work with fashion or music or sport, actual brands that sell products or services or whatever it might be. But also what can we do in those worlds for us as a studio if I set one up to. To make ourselves known and to make stuff that contributes to those spaces in the best way.
I would want to do a lot of work with and in music. I think I have great friends who are in the music world.
A lot of them run parties or artists themselves.
And I think right now it's such an interesting time because of unfortunately AI and the effect that that's going to have on the industry. But also I think there's a really beautiful opportunity for underground music and underground artists to be more loved than ever and people be drawn to them and for them to become more popular because they'll feel more human.
And so I'd want to do work in that space.
So yeah, hopefully that answers.
[00:54:56] Speaker C: It seems like you are getting to do work in that space. That's like, that's really exciting. That's really, really exciting.
[00:55:03] Speaker B: What is the like, like the most tangible, I guess, possible piece of advice for a young creative who wants to start an agency? How can they get their first gig? Like do they. Do you think, I guess it's a this or that of like, do you think it's best to go off and make a prototype and then go pitch? Or do you think it's best to just send a ton of emails out and like hope one gets back to you? Like if they, let's say they don't have a portfolio, you know.
[00:55:29] Speaker A: Or do you mean join an agency or start.
[00:55:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I think creating. Creating one or at Least trying to get work, like to work with, with clients.
[00:55:39] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. I mean, my belief, and I've spoken to a couple of people about this before is that I would always want to make a piece of work with a client or a piece of work that just for ourselves that's made and that you can put out when you start the agency. I always think it's quite interesting when agencies start and they just announce themselves but they haven't made anything yet.
So I would want to take the time to go away, form who we are and then make a piece of work to prove that and then put that out at the same time you announce that you exist.
Beautiful.
[00:56:21] Speaker C: And then because, you know, I want to be conscious of time, we do always ask this question towards the end of the pod. What, what is the dream for you?
And that's open ended. Whatever you want to, you know, discuss.
[00:56:37] Speaker A: My mum's a life coach. It's the kind of question that she would have asked.
[00:56:40] Speaker C: Oh, God.
[00:56:41] Speaker A: Oh God.
The dream for me is to definitely one day run my own studio.
Taking inspiration from all the amazing people and leaders and mentors I've had and doing hopefully what we've just spoken about.
Working with incredible people both in the studio and partnering and whether they're clients or musicians or whoever it might be to make incredible work but hopefully is seen by the world and enjoyed and makes an impact and changes things in the best way.
I think to be part of stuff that's moving culture forward and having an impact and creating more of the stuff that I think is amazing in the world, like music or incredible creativity.
So hopefully be a part of that and hopefully own a lovely home near the sea or something like that.
[00:57:42] Speaker B: There you go.
[00:57:43] Speaker C: Isn't that nice? Wouldn't that be nice to own a home someday near the sea?
[00:57:47] Speaker B: Near the sea. I know. Come on.
[00:57:49] Speaker A: Yeah, we've manifested it now.
[00:57:52] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:57:54] Speaker B: Your mom's a life coach, dude. Oh my God.
[00:57:57] Speaker A: I know. Wow.
[00:57:59] Speaker B: That's, is that, is that hard? She's constantly on you about stuff. Is that like.
[00:58:04] Speaker A: She might listen to this?
I've got to be careful. No, my mum's incredible and I actually think that a lot of the things that life coaches are taught and, and, and do actually it's been super helpful for me. I think the big, one of the biggest things that no one thinks about in a job that's creative is being an empath and having an understanding for how people feel.
Because at the end of the day you're, you're, you're Trying to move people.
And so I actually think that some of the thinking and the teachings of that world, be it psychotherapy or life coaching actually is. Is I find really interesting.
So we have good conversations about that. But I guess on a personal level, yeah, it's interesting, but no, it's good. I. I feel very lucky. I've got lovely parents.
[00:58:59] Speaker B: Beautiful.
[00:58:59] Speaker C: That's awesome.
[00:59:00] Speaker B: Well, awesome, man. Thank you so much for coming on.
Very much looking forward to. To seeing how the rings and these videos ask it. Anyways, please keep making more.
[00:59:11] Speaker C: Yes, please, please.
[00:59:13] Speaker B: You know, with, with more and more, I guess I, I could just keep asking questions all day, but I have.
[00:59:18] Speaker C: So many, so many more questions. But we'll. We'll have to do another episode.
[00:59:24] Speaker B: I to want. Want uno mas of just you. You just were on set with like some of the largest talent on the planet.
You being a creative, hearing what you want to do, like dream wise. What's one takeaway for you that I don't know after just like having that, that campaign and the billboards and all of that, like, what's, what's one takeaway? Maybe you learned from interacting with these folks who are at the top of the chain.
[00:59:54] Speaker A: I think the one. It's a very good question. One takeaway is that while these people may seem a certain way, that they may seem kind of chilled and like they don't really care too much and they may give off that energy in some ways. These people work so, so hard. Hard.
They are obsessed with what they do and they are invested in every second and work many hours of the day to make it a reality and, and they, they really do live it.
And so I think that, you know, it's a cliche, isn't it, to do a job that you love and then you never work a day in your life. But honestly, I. That's what I learned from those people, from being around them is just their energy and their love for what they do is. Is insane.
[01:00:47] Speaker C: Yeah, there we go. Well, we appreciate you hopping on the show and.
Yeah, just appreciate it, man.
[01:00:53] Speaker A: Thank you so much, guys. No, it's been a pleasure.
And yeah, I mean I'd. I've got lots of questions I'd love to ask you as well. So.
[01:01:04] Speaker B: Compass some British Airway tickets, man. We'll meet you for exactly.
[01:01:09] Speaker A: Sounds like a deal. I'll do my best.
Yeah. If you're ever over, do shout. We can, we can go for a.
An alcoholic free drink. There you go.
[01:01:21] Speaker C: Some tea.
[01:01:22] Speaker B: What do you mean? Come on.
[01:01:23] Speaker A: Yeah, we can go for some tea? I just had a tea. Yeah, good.
[01:01:27] Speaker C: I'm glad it's not coffee. It's. It's like 6, it's 6pm there now.
[01:01:31] Speaker A: It'S 6pm this was a. This was a herbal tea.
So yeah, all good.
But no, have a great day guys and thank you so much for having me on. It's honestly, it's been great and really appreciate everything you're doing. Like I think it's so cool and that you're started your own podcast and you've obviously very busy in your own life so yeah, I think it's amazing.
[01:01:53] Speaker C: Appreciate you, man.
[01:02:00] Speaker B: Did you learn something? I'm like your mom. Did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging. Make sure you follow us at the 5050fest on Instagram and give us five stars because why not? Why not subscribe? Why not? You know why not. Okay, bye.
