HOW TO: Build an Internet Sketch Group (w/ Josh Carone of 2bd2bth)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: It became, we were like, this is what we should be doing for the next like five years. Like, this is, this is the business and this is like the foundation that we can build all of our like future film aspirations, like off of. And that wow, adds pressure, but also it's like, it's kind of a relief. [00:00:18] Speaker B: It's. [00:00:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I was going to say it's like enlightening. [00:00:20] Speaker A: Like totally. [00:00:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:00:21] Speaker A: Where it's like. And at that. And then at a certain point it was like seeing what Curry was doing. Maybe this is before. But I was like, well, we can like shoot a feature and like put it on our YouTube channel. We have an audience now. [00:00:32] Speaker C: That is awesome. And that's exactly what I was talking about with like the modern version of a filmmaker. Like a well rounded filmmaker. Yeah. [00:00:41] Speaker B: I'm Luke Steinfeld. [00:00:42] Speaker C: And I'm Wyatt Sarkissian. [00:00:44] Speaker B: We made the 5050 podcast to support you on your filmmaking journey. [00:00:47] Speaker C: 50% business, 50% creative. [00:00:50] Speaker B: Every Tuesday, a new how to. [00:00:51] Speaker C: This week we chat with Josh Caron. He's in a sketch duo called 2Bed2Bath. You know, we've had a handful of sketch comedians on the podcast recently. And what stood out to us about Josh and his comedy partner Jenny Thatch is that they enter the sketch comedy space with a plan. They set out to do specific kinds of sketches on a specific schedule with tangible goals far beyond sketch comedy. This one was a very fun episode to put together, so enjoy. [00:01:33] Speaker B: We've had a few people on here that like yourself are doing so much and there's a through line of like, I feel like I'm doing nothing. [00:01:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:45] Speaker B: And you are someone that I can positively say is not only do it because a lot of times that comes from like a lack of maybe like external recognition. [00:01:57] Speaker A: Totally. [00:01:58] Speaker B: You know, where it's like, okay, I'm doing a lot, like I'm posting a lot of shorts, but like none of them have hit X amount of views or like I'm not getting emailed by X people. Whatever you though, like you're you, you have the actual numbers and data to back that you are doing stuff. [00:02:19] Speaker A: Well, yeah, I mean I do feel like so stuff. [00:02:22] Speaker B: I guess the question is then what is stuff? Like what is the stuff you want to be doing? [00:02:30] Speaker A: It's all in the world of two Bed two Bath, which is like the channel that Jenny and I run. It's like, want to be doing more long form videos or like more sketches per week or like, uh huh, I don't know. At one point it was like, we're not getting the views we need to do more. And now it's like there's an expectation for, I don't know, bigger and bigger [00:02:52] Speaker C: things that the level you're at becomes like the baseline. Therefore you're just like kind of not enough and you need to. Then it feels like, okay, I'm at zero. [00:03:03] Speaker A: It's like a different motivation, which is interesting, but it's just as motivating. Like I don't know for her. And I like, once you get a little bit of taste of success, it's like, how far can this take us and what do we need to do to continue expanding? And it's really exciting, but it's a different kind of pressure, I think. [00:03:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:26] Speaker C: So first let's talk about who you are and the scope of your work and who all these people are that collaborators. Let's get into your community that you've built because it's tangential to ours. But this is the first time any of us are, I mean, Luke and [00:03:43] Speaker B: I are meeting you. [00:03:45] Speaker C: So this is like, this is one of the, you know, more rare podcast reach outs. That was just kind of a cool reach out. So we're really like getting to know you in this episode. [00:03:56] Speaker A: Well, it felt like I knew you guys. [00:03:57] Speaker C: I know. I mean, right when we saw each other, it was just right away. [00:04:00] Speaker A: I was actually happy when you emailed me because sometimes we'll get like random emails from like two bed fans and it's like always like a 10 year old kid in Norway that's like, can you put. [00:04:10] Speaker C: Sweet. [00:04:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Can you put what? Like, can you put. [00:04:14] Speaker A: There was a guy that asked us last week, can you, can you put our sketches on DVDs? And I was like, no. Yeah, the Internet exists. I love physical media. But like, yeah, yeah, we don't have [00:04:26] Speaker C: the money to do that sketches. I don't. [00:04:27] Speaker B: And then this sketches on DVDs. [00:04:29] Speaker C: I don't know if that's ever really better. [00:04:31] Speaker A: Monty Python. [00:04:32] Speaker B: Yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure. [00:04:35] Speaker A: He was like, I'm trying to spend less time on social media. [00:04:37] Speaker B: That's great. Yeah. So you really had a conversation with this guy? [00:04:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And then I was like, and I'm trying to. Yeah. He's like, my mom lets me spend like 10 minutes on Gmail and he's 10 and he's emailing us. Yeah, that's so nice. But like you should continue watching. [00:04:51] Speaker B: That's amazing. Like you're. You have an audience that spans. [00:04:54] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And then I was like, is there a demographic like 10 year old Norwegian [00:04:57] Speaker B: Kids, I wouldn't think that we need [00:04:59] Speaker A: to start pandering, though. [00:05:00] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Why don't you start, like, translating into, [00:05:03] Speaker A: like, you know, different languages? That would be really funny. [00:05:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:08] Speaker A: Okay. What was the original. [00:05:09] Speaker B: Sorry, can we talk about the genesis of two Bed, two Bath? And in doing so, can you also, for the folks at home that may not have come across too bad to Bath, I'm sure they have, like, giving the little log line of the series. [00:05:23] Speaker A: Sure. Okay. Two Bed, two Bath is a. How do I describe it? It's like a digital comedy brand, is sort of what we call ourselves. And we do two sketch. No, one sketch a week. We used to do two sketches on Instagram and TikTok. And it's me, Josh, and my roommate Jenny, who's an editor, filmmaker, actress. And, yeah, it sort of came from a place of, like, creative stagnation almost, but almost like. I don't know if you guys feel like this, but, like, graduated from film school, was making shorts, wasn't going anywhere. [00:06:02] Speaker C: Mm. [00:06:02] Speaker A: And then it was like, I started working in digital at a studio, and I was, like, so against pushing or going in that direction creatively and, like, making stuff for Vertical, because I felt like it was sort of selling out. Not selling out. I shouldn't say that, but, like, it [00:06:19] Speaker C: was, like, not your preferred way. [00:06:20] Speaker A: Yeah. And I was like, I don't want to, like, talk to camera or, like, I'm a filmmaker, like, capital F film. Like. [00:06:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:27] Speaker A: But then a friend of ours named Milky, who I met while I was directing at Jubilee is for real. [00:06:35] Speaker B: His name is Milky. [00:06:36] Speaker A: Her name is Milky. Well, her name is Kelly. But when she moved out here, she realized there's another director named Kelly Tran, and so she changed her name to Milky. [00:06:42] Speaker B: Of all that. That's. That makes sense. [00:06:45] Speaker A: It makes sense. When you meet her, it is, like, out of all the names to choose, she chose Milky. [00:06:50] Speaker B: Great name. [00:06:51] Speaker C: I mean, it's a. Yeah, like, you remember that. [00:06:53] Speaker A: You do remember. And she fits it really well in, like, the least creepy way possible. But anyways, we, like, got drinks with her. And this is like, I used to work at Sony and, like, their digital media on one team there. And she had left Jubilee and she was in the process of, like, blowing up on Instagram doing these, like, sort of Day in the Life videos. But they were really well made. And because she's a filmmaker, and we were like, why did you start doing these? Cause, like, while they are well made and sort of, like, highly produced, they're not, like, narrative. And she was like, My manager told me I'd get more gigs, like you know, if I had a bigger following, blah blah, blah. And she could start it off. That was the motivation. But then I started doing it and I was like, oh, this is scratching like this creative itch that I feel like has gone unscratched for such a long time. And I think the next day Jenny and I, and we were, Jenny and I were both sort of separately in our own creative ruts. And then the next day we were like, we should do something like that and came up with two by two bath right then and there. And yeah, I mean it's just evolved a ton over the last year. But it, she was right. Like it is so much more fulfilling than I thought it would be. And to the point where like I'm like, I have, we have to have to start doing other long form things and get back to what we used to be doing. Because this is so fun. But it's ultimately not what we want to be doing for the rest of our lives, at least in the next like five years. [00:08:18] Speaker C: Yeah, let's dig into like that sense of fulfillment. Because it was unexpected to get into the vertical space and feel fulfilled. What about it was fulfilling? And then how do you feel now after doing it? [00:08:31] Speaker A: I feel like the level. Well, when you do a short and I'm sure you guys know this, like even if it's like a 10 minute short film, it sometimes takes like takes like a year to see the light of day. Like you shoot it and then you edit it and this pre production and like the festival run and blah blah blah. And there's just really long lifespan that's like great. It's awesome to be working on something for that long of a time. But by the when it comes out you're like, I'm sort of over this project at this point. Like. And so I think the immediate sort of creative gratification of like we shot this on a Tuesday, edited on a Thursday and then comes out on a Friday. And we can see the response is super satisfying. And it leads to like a level of experimentation that you don't necessarily get when you're putting all of your efforts into like one film or one short. [00:09:21] Speaker C: And that's just like diversity of thought too. Like you totally. And there's something about, I think that sort of year long short film process that is so like, like the overthinking and the getting in your head and [00:09:32] Speaker B: the getting like lose your mind, you're like Internet. [00:09:35] Speaker C: You end up like ebbing and flowing between, like, feeling very passionate about it and not because you are. It is just one idea. And going through this, like, boot camp in a way, you know well. [00:09:45] Speaker A: And as, like, because I write all the sketches, so as a writer, it's. It's really freeing to be able to play with, like, different jokes or different, like, narrative structures in a way that, like, if I was doing a short, I would over. Not overthink, but I would really want to nail down what this. What I'm trying to accomplish from a beat to beat standpoint, where in a sketch, it's like, let's, like, see if an audience will go along with a shot that no one talks for, like, five seconds. Or, like, I don't know, a whole short film or whole sketch filmed in a wide or stuff like that. They're like, if this doesn't work, it doesn't really matter because we're gonna put out another sketch in, like, a week. And people forget that this ever existed. [00:10:19] Speaker B: And. [00:10:19] Speaker C: And with social media, like, if something doesn't pick up, something doesn't pick up and nobody sees it and whatever. [00:10:24] Speaker B: And then at least it's not a year, it's a week. [00:10:26] Speaker A: Ex. [00:10:27] Speaker C: Accessing an audience very quickly so that the audience can basically say, this is what we. Like, this is what's good for us. [00:10:33] Speaker A: Totally. [00:10:33] Speaker B: Was this. This conversation with Milky and the. The beginning or of ideating of 2bad 2bath? Like, was this when you were still working? Was this you quit your job and you're like, I'm gonna go full time. I'm gonna try this thing. Or. Or how did you find the time for this? Like, how did that play with your. [00:10:54] Speaker A: I don't know how either of us did it. We. Like, I was working at Sony, and for the first year of Too Bad, I was working at Sony and producing shows for them. And then we would shoot like. I was working, like, seven days a [00:11:06] Speaker C: week for, like, crazy. [00:11:07] Speaker A: I don't know, a year and a half. [00:11:09] Speaker C: It's insane. [00:11:10] Speaker A: And it was, like, too much. [00:11:11] Speaker C: Luke sent me a little, like, you know, some bullets on you. Because he was the one who reached out. And, like, I was like, how is this possible that he was working here and doing, like, and getting these. I was, like, trying to do the math of it. Like, it feels literally impossible. So that makes sense. Like, seven days a week for. [00:11:28] Speaker A: It was. Yeah, it was brutal. Well, Saturday we met with Milky. Sunday came up with the next day. The idea for Too Bad. [00:11:35] Speaker B: Can we. I'm sorry. Like, what was the idea? Was it like, okay, you And I were roommates. [00:11:41] Speaker C: Like, what apartment? [00:11:43] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:44] Speaker A: I remember sitting on my balcony and she was at her desk and I was like, reading. And then I put my book down. We should do something like that. And talking to myself. And then like, open the door and I'm like, we should do something. What Milky's doing. She's like, I was just thinking about that. And then I think it was that literally in an hour, it was like, we're gonna do two by two bath. It's gonna be you and I playing ourselves. We're gonna do sketches. And originally it was we were like, they're gonna be like 10 second long single joke in a wide set. [00:12:13] Speaker B: A punchline. [00:12:13] Speaker A: Exactly. And that's it. And then we bent the knee to Instagram and TikTok very quickly because we were like, this is not conducive to this platform. And also like, as in what? [00:12:22] Speaker B: You need that first line, that's a hook. And then estab. [00:12:25] Speaker A: Like, well, just like, we weren't shooting vertical. Like we were shooting wide. Yeah. [00:12:28] Speaker C: And you need mostly close ups. [00:12:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:30] Speaker A: Like, we were just like, this is. This feels more. This isn't very attention grabby. And like, I don't think we're ever making stuff with that. And that's like not the only intention. But I do think you sort of need to meet the platform where it is. [00:12:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:12:50] Speaker A: And it actually is not necessarily a bad thing because I think it's made me like a stronger writer and that, like, you have to like open a scene with something interesting or people are going to lose interest. But that's something interesting. Doesn't have to be like someone screaming or like a joke. Like it can be something a little bit more nuanced, but I think that is important. So anyways. Yeah, yeah. So we did like eight sketches. We were going to do eight sketches a month, and we did the first [00:13:15] Speaker B: eight all wide in a month. [00:13:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:17] Speaker B: And the process of that was the first one, like, whoa, we should do another one right now. Or was it like, no. Really difficult? Or like six later? You're like, shoot, we have two more. [00:13:27] Speaker A: No, I think I wrote eight like that week, and then the next. And then we shot him like the next weekend. [00:13:32] Speaker C: And are you just shooting on iPhone or like. [00:13:34] Speaker A: No, Jenny has a. An A7S3. That was going to be our distinction where it was like, we're shooting a nice camera, we're writing the sketches, and then Jenny is like a ridiculously talented colorist and editor, but low key. Like, the colorist is more important when it Comes to vertical. [00:13:50] Speaker B: And branding too. [00:13:51] Speaker A: And branding, it sets things apart. [00:13:52] Speaker C: It's a very specific feel, texture of it. [00:13:55] Speaker A: And I do think that that from the get go we were like, oh, we really like making these things do feel interesting and different from stuff that we've seen. And so even though, like the first few months, we really weren't getting that much traction, it felt like we were on the right path. [00:14:11] Speaker B: And what. What was not that much traction? Like, was it because you said a few months? So is that eight per month? Was that 24 sketches that were. [00:14:17] Speaker A: Yeah, we did. Yeah. So we march. It was like the eight wides, which did. I mean, we shot like four in one day. Because again, it was like one joke [00:14:28] Speaker B: and you were, I'm sorry, putting them out weekly at the time. [00:14:31] Speaker A: Yeah, we're doing two a week. [00:14:32] Speaker B: So wasn't my dumping eight? [00:14:33] Speaker A: No, no, no. [00:14:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:36] Speaker A: And then. [00:14:38] Speaker B: And numbers wise, they weren't doing anything. What is nothing like a couple hundred? Was it like 10,000? [00:14:43] Speaker A: I think on Instagram it was probably like a couple thousand. And then on TikTok it was like a couple hundred. Yeah. Because we were collaborating with our own profiles and like, we didn't really have that many followers. We still had like a few thousand individuals. [00:14:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:14:58] Speaker A: And then in April was the first month we went to Vertical, but still sort of learning, like, how long should a sketch be? Like, how many jokes should there be? Should there be multiple scenes? Like, there were still a few, like one shot sketches in that month as well. And then I want to say, like, [00:15:16] Speaker B: but that month was now everything was vertical. [00:15:19] Speaker A: Everything was vertical. We've made that shift. [00:15:21] Speaker B: That's a big jump though. That's a big shift. That's like a massive visual shift. [00:15:25] Speaker A: Well, when we weren't shooting coverage, like everything was in a wide and then we had one sketch that hit like 10,000 views on TikTok and we were like, damn, bro, we made it. We did it. And then May was similarly sort of like, it was such like incremental progress. Like, I had felt like we had exhausted how many followers we could each individually pull onto the Tube Ed channel on Instagram. And then on TikTok we were like getting a little bit of traction, but not really anything. And we were doing this like the title cards that we still do. And I was like, is that like not conducive to this platform? Like, and again, I was working in digital at a studio, so I was like seeing all the ways that they market their material and it felt really different. And I was like, do we need to be more, like, I don't know, overtly algorithm heavy? Like, I don't know. And she was always like, just trust the process. Like, you know, we had friends that were like, this is what you should be doing. Like, this feels so right. And it felt right to us. But I think I just got friends. [00:16:26] Speaker B: So you had that support group around. [00:16:28] Speaker A: We had a few friends, yeah. I remember one in particular. Our friend Skyler was like, I saw the first one and I was like, oh, this is exactly what they should be doing. This feels so natural. Because we had been trying to experiment for, like, a long time. We directed music videos together. Like, we directed shorts. And like, we always liked working together, but we had never really felt or, I don't know, found that certain thing that, I don't know, we, like, moved on from projects kind of quickly just because it didn't feel natural or whatever. [00:16:55] Speaker B: It was just gig to gig. [00:16:56] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:16:57] Speaker C: And also finding what works for you guys. [00:16:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:59] Speaker C: As a duo. [00:17:00] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:17:00] Speaker C: Like, that's really. I feel like Luke and I. Yeah. Have gone through exactly, like, testing out different formats and different types of things to feel what our combination of minds. [00:17:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:10] Speaker C: Look like. [00:17:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:11] Speaker B: You know when you're writing, because you mentioned exhausting followers on insert, like, as in, you know, you're. You're posting weekly and fatigue is a real thing. We think that. But then there's also the flip side where it's like, but people get saturated by so much stuff anyway that, like, totally. One little video for a second. Like for us, the creator. [00:17:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:27] Speaker B: A whole lot more heavy. But there's still something to that. But on the mental. For you, two questions, what did it feel like putting these out for the first time? Like, that first round was that nerve wracking to be vulnerable. [00:17:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:40] Speaker B: And then second is you're writing eight sketches a month. [00:17:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:47] Speaker B: Are you exhausting content? Are you, like, going to coffee shops? Like, no. Like, tell me something. [00:17:52] Speaker A: Like, I think I've gone such a long time. Well, to your, to your first question. Like, I think if it was. If I was just doing it alone, I definitely would have felt a little bit more insecure or, like, vulnerable. But I think a. Because it wasn't like talking to camera, sort of like, I'm Josh, I'm playing like nine different characters. It was more like I'm playing myself. We're in our apartment and we are still sort of doing this. Like, it still felt natural for, like, our film experiences in our past and our, like, identity already on the Internet. And then Again, yeah. With Jenny, it was a lot more helpful because it's like, if we're both. If I'm cringy, like, you're cringy. So, like, I don't know. [00:18:37] Speaker B: This. [00:18:38] Speaker A: This is fine. [00:18:38] Speaker B: Gives you that. It's almost like training wheels. [00:18:40] Speaker A: Exactly. But it is like, those first, like, eight, 16 videos. Like, you're posting them and you get, like, two comments, and it is a little bit, like, embarrassing. [00:18:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:47] Speaker A: It's fully uncomfortable. [00:18:49] Speaker C: And, like, I'm curious, were you. Are you like, a cam? Like, do you want to be on camera? Is that something that you were doing in college and were you acting and, like, is that part of your artistic identity from, like, a younger age? [00:19:02] Speaker A: No. I mean, I've always just. Writing has always been the thing that I've loved doing the most. The thing I've done the most. I've acted in a few of my shorts, but only because I, like, didn't want to pay. Another actor was like, I like, I know I can do this. I don't. I think I have, like, some very finite limitations as an actor. And actually, like, this web series we just did, I decided not to act in it because I felt like I just. There was other people wanted to cast. And also, like, there's a level of interpretation when you're acting your own writing that I think is, like, I don't know, I feel like there's less room for experimenting or, like, new takes or new directions because I'm like. I hear the words in my head and how I wrote it, and, like, that's kind of the only interpretation I have versus, like, if I gave a line to an actor, like, they're going to interpret it completely different way. [00:19:53] Speaker C: Then it's two people. [00:19:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:54] Speaker C: Suddenly, but to two bit too bad. [00:19:57] Speaker A: It's like I'm playing. I don't know. I was like, I know I can do this. And Jenny and I have a really funny rapport, and our friendship is, like, kind of unique. And so, yeah, I never really, like, considered not acting in it. And it is. I mean, being on camera every week is definitely, like, not something I love. And I don't think she does either. I think I've gotten used to doing it, but it's not something in the long run replacement. [00:20:23] Speaker C: Just hire actors. [00:20:24] Speaker A: I know. I should. [00:20:25] Speaker C: I should not mention I should. Yeah, that could be kind of fun. [00:20:29] Speaker A: That would be funny. [00:20:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:32] Speaker B: What was the second about maintaining, like, freshness with writing sketches? [00:20:38] Speaker A: Oh, I think. I think I've been writing, like, prior to doing Too Bad you know, I was. I've been writing every day since I was, like, a senior in high school. But it's. [00:20:48] Speaker B: What does that mean, Writing? Like, journaling? Are you writing features? Are you writing sketches? [00:20:53] Speaker A: It's usually I'm working on something, sort of feature or, you know, I went through. When I first got into writing, I was like, I'm gonna be a TV writer. Like, I love tv, and I feel like that's, like, a really stable job. And then I, like, talked to one, and he was like, don't do this. A, this job sucks. Like, you rely on other people. And B, you have to, like, either get really lucky early on or you have to grind as an assistant for, like, 10 or 15 years. I mean, again, there's like, a bunch of different paths. But he was like, this is probably the more traditional one. And I was like, I don't want to do that. And then I got. Wait a second. That seems like a lot of work. And then I just got really into, like, I don't know, filmmaking and directing. And I found that, like, writing a feature was much more satisfying than writing a TV pilot in terms of, like. I think there's a lot more. What's the word I'm looking for? Like, diversity and structure, I think, versus, like, a television pilot. I mean, comedy or drama. Like, there's a pretty rigid, like, system of beats you need to hit. And, like, that is cool, and it's really fun to write within that. But I also think, like, I don't know, I never felt that I found it as, like, emotionally satisfying as, like, writing a narrative. [00:22:08] Speaker C: Sure. [00:22:09] Speaker A: Feature that you can sort of discover along the way. Anyways. That's, like, the most pretentious thing. [00:22:13] Speaker B: No, it totally is not. And I. I think I understand that, you know, But. So then you were basically fine writing these sketches. It was, like, cool. It's just a few pages. [00:22:22] Speaker A: Yeah. I guess the point I was trying to make was, like, graduate from college and was, like, writing features, but it almost feels like I was writing them, like, into the void, because, like, no one else is reading them other than, like, maybe a close friend or, like, I'm table reading them with my roommates. But, like, I'm not making these anytime soon. And I, like, didn't have a manager, didn't have an agent, and I. I loved directing, too. So I was like, I'm not really trying to be, like, a. I don't know, a writer for hire or whatever. And again, I wouldn't even know how to go about becoming that. And so it felt like, a little bit silly at times to be like, writing these because I'm like, will these ever see the light of day? Like, who am I doing this for? Is this just to, like, continue working on this craft? But, like, I don't know, there was no functionality to it or that's. That's sort of how it felt. And so. But I was doing it regardless for, you know, the first two or three years after college. And I think going to sketches and writing, like three page little things that, like, had no emotional arc was, like, so fun and so freeing and I had this, like, well of ideas and. [00:23:24] Speaker B: Yeah. How many features did you finish before jumping back to these sketches? Not that it actually really matters, but it's more of like a fun question. [00:23:33] Speaker A: Probably like 10. [00:23:34] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:23:35] Speaker C: That's. That's no longer a fun question. That's a serious question. But because that is insane. [00:23:40] Speaker A: I will say. I would say there's like seven of. Seven of them are. Well, I would say there's like five I like. And then, like, there were probably a few that I wrote like, in college or in. In high school that, like, I should probably burn because they're so bad and so, like, treacly and sentimental. [00:24:00] Speaker B: Wow. [00:24:00] Speaker A: But then, dude, there's like a few that I would want to make. [00:24:05] Speaker B: Well, it doesn't, like, it's insane, but it also doesn't surprise me because I think even watching two bed, two Bath, watching your shorts specifically, I guess, is what I'm thinking about. But two bed, two Bath as well, it's very clear that, like, your voice is very distinct and, like, you are a really strong writer. [00:24:25] Speaker A: Oh, thank you. [00:24:26] Speaker B: And that only comes from writing. [00:24:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:29] Speaker C: As you said, you've been doing it every day since senior year of high school. [00:24:32] Speaker A: Like, I was so bad at it for so long. [00:24:34] Speaker B: Is it really every day? Yeah. Wow. [00:24:37] Speaker A: Yeah. But I think I've gotten less. It was like, low key in addiction at one point to a point where, like, I felt like my. [00:24:47] Speaker B: That's like the. Probably the worst thing you can ever say. [00:24:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:52] Speaker B: To a writer. You know, it's like, I just can't stop writing. [00:24:54] Speaker A: Well, it wasn't even like, I can't stop writing. It was like my, like, my like, self worth is like, tied into, intertwined with like, did I write today? [00:25:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:04] Speaker A: Even if the thing I write, like, wasn't that good and that would be even worse. But no, it's a little bit debilitating. [00:25:09] Speaker C: Yeah. That's complicated psychologically. [00:25:12] Speaker A: Totally is. [00:25:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:25:13] Speaker C: And I can't tell if that's good or. I still can't tell if that's good or bad. [00:25:16] Speaker A: I think it's ultimately probably had a net positive result. But I think there are certainly like. But days and weeks where I've like sacrificed like social time to like work on my feature that again, no one is reading that I don't think. I think it was like kind of an unhealthy relationship but I think I've. The sketches are great because it's like I can write a sketch, feel creatively fulfilled and then I can go in like it. Yeah. [00:25:42] Speaker C: And you're not addicted to a specific idea. [00:25:45] Speaker B: Very different feel. [00:25:46] Speaker A: And I, because before I was like why do I feel like I have to do this? Like no one is making me do this and no one is like no one's reading this. Whatever. I'm not on a deadline. And now it's like there actually is sort of a deadline or like I [00:25:58] Speaker C: need to be doing this but then self diagnosed deadlines. [00:26:01] Speaker A: Exactly. So like yeah, it's, it's healthier now. [00:26:04] Speaker B: But yeah, because it's like now it's my job. [00:26:06] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. [00:26:09] Speaker B: That's great, dude. I mean congratulations on, on that. And I think being able to find something like two bed, two bath, like an outlet for your writing where you're able to go from like feature land back to condensed, concise sketches. It's like a really fun jump. [00:26:27] Speaker C: It's a fun. I think it's a very. To me it's like a very modern writer sort of thing. And as you're talking I just, I start thinking about the relationship that our generation has with like the traditional formats, features, tv. And I think like our generation is going to end up as some combination of you're. You're now a frontward facing person, you know. [00:26:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:49] Speaker C: You're on camera but you're also establishing yourself as a writer, director. So. [00:26:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:54] Speaker C: By doing the on camera stuff you're then given access to like go and shoot that web series. Yeah, yeah, shoot that feature eventually. [00:27:01] Speaker A: Totally. [00:27:02] Speaker C: That, that is like the modern version of directors, you know. [00:27:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:06] Speaker B: You gotta be a brand. [00:27:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:08] Speaker B: You know, and that's, that's where I almost want to like ask about Sony and like. [00:27:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:12] Speaker B: If that job was helpful in any way. How. [00:27:16] Speaker C: And you worked in content, right. [00:27:18] Speaker B: You were content. [00:27:19] Speaker A: This really weird team called the Fandom Network who like the main business was we had this like network of YouTube channels that would just reproduce clips from Sony IP. [00:27:31] Speaker C: That's so real. [00:27:33] Speaker A: And it was like, I remember I Heard about it. I was like, that's fucking genius. Cause, like, there's no overhead, and all you're doing is just, like, making money off of things that you already own. [00:27:41] Speaker B: Archival footage, basically, or. [00:27:42] Speaker A: Well, no, it's just clips from Sony movies and television. Yeah, yeah. [00:27:47] Speaker C: And just, like, spreading IP exactly. In different ways. [00:27:50] Speaker A: And they would post the same clip, like, thousands of times, and they'd, like, hundreds of channels. [00:27:56] Speaker B: So was this, though, because I assume you didn't have much social media experience going into that job. At least it doesn't sound like that. It seems more traditional filmmaker. Want to be that TV writer in high school and, like, coming into college. Very film. You're doing shorts. [00:28:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:12] Speaker B: And then the first sketches you made were even more on the film size. And it's like you're shooting that wide instead of vertical. Like, what about the Sony job? Did you start getting a grasp on socials? Was it like, oh, man, like, I got it? [00:28:28] Speaker A: Yeah. I think the main takeaway was, like. Because I worked on. I was on the team, but I was in on, like, the original content side, and we weren't really doing, like, scripted stuff or anything like that. But I saw how much money the studio was investing into digital and into. And towards the end of my time there, I was lucky enough to produce, like, a couple, like, vertical shows, like, man on the street shows. And even, like, the fact that a major studio was, like, giving someone money to do that, I was like, oh, the tide is turning. I don't know if it's turning, but it's like, this is just a new avenue to get to Hollywood. That feels very similar to, I don't know, like, the web series boom from, like, the late 2000s or, like, the mumble core movement of, like, you know, the 90s or the early 2000s. And, like, I don't know, you kind of have to either roll with it, or I think you're gonna be left in the dust. And, like, as the youngest person on my team or one of the younger people, they were always deferring to me for social media stuff. And I was like, I've barely worked in, like, I don't really know that much about this shit, but I think. [00:29:33] Speaker C: But it kind of forced you to learn exactly. [00:29:35] Speaker B: What do your friends think? [00:29:36] Speaker A: Exactly. And, like, I saw, like, they were, you know, meeting with creators about, like, developing television shows with them off of, like, you know, not a single sketch, but, like. Like, that guy Chit. Do you guys remember him? You guys know him? [00:29:50] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:29:50] Speaker A: He's like, this character that this UCB dude does, that he wears like a funny wig and glasses, whatever. And he does like office sort of sitcom. Yeah. And he's massive on Instagram and Tick tock and Facebook. And I remember, I don't know if I could say, oh, who cares? Like they were meeting with him about developing like a 30 minute television show. I was like, you mean fucking shit? Like, like, wait, what? I was like, yeah, shit can do it. He makes Instagram videos. Like, and I think real. The biggest thing, I mean, Milky made this point was like, if a studio works with you and you're a creator, they have like a built in marketing tool with like your audience that they wouldn't have if they were just going to some like run of the mill direct writer, director. Yeah, completely. And that's like kind of cynical, by the way. [00:30:37] Speaker C: That's all it is. That's the only box office guarantee at this point, even on the highest level is filmmakers that have their own audience. [00:30:43] Speaker A: Totally. [00:30:44] Speaker B: You know, and I think it's always been though. [00:30:45] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [00:30:46] Speaker B: Just now there's a very. [00:30:48] Speaker C: You can see we're able to see audiences in different ways. Yes, absolutely. [00:30:51] Speaker A: I think it does require certain level of like taste making though, because not every side on the studio side, because not every creator has like the skill set to transition into a more traditional form of filmmaking. And I do wonder if like in a post obsession backrooms world, if there will be this like knee jerk reaction from studios to just go out and develop all of these movies with a bunch of different creators. [00:31:18] Speaker C: Well, yes, by the way. [00:31:20] Speaker A: Yeah, the answer is yes. I almost get worried if the question [00:31:23] Speaker C: is when have studios overreacted something? It's yes. [00:31:26] Speaker A: Yes. Every time, ever. And I'm worried that they're like going to overreact so much that there's going to be movies, they're going to try and recreate like obsession and the movies are going to bomb and then it's going to like flip back around, I can tell you. [00:31:40] Speaker C: I mean, after that first weekend or that second weekend. Right. Obsession. And then Back Rooms came out the weekend after. It was like every track was like, my bosses are looking for the next horror filmmaker that can transition to like, it's like, all right, well, yeah, these people were fostered three years ago. [00:31:56] Speaker A: Like, totally. [00:31:57] Speaker C: We're behind it already. You know, it's like, it's kind of like it just, it was a telltale sign where it's gonna be oversaturated. [00:32:06] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. You know, I hope it expands beyond horror. I think Selfishly, but also I just think that that model doesn't necessarily is not only conducive to horror, like the like, viral short film to, like a feature. [00:32:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:20] Speaker A: I feel like comedy or even drama, Like, I don't know. If you go and look at Curry's old shorts, like, they're incredible and his feature is incredible. And like, the virality of it is, like, important from a marketing standpoint. Like, oh, he's got all these followers are gonna watch it. But also I think it is a testament to, like, this is short is good. [00:32:41] Speaker C: Yeah, he's a really good filmmaker. We talk about that too. [00:32:45] Speaker B: His shorts are fantastic. Yeah, his sketches are great. [00:32:48] Speaker A: They're amazing, right? [00:32:49] Speaker B: Like, him and Cooper, like that. They're totally built a brand around sketches. Like on Tick Tock. I'm sure you might have seen those videos and maybe been inspired in some way. Like two people in front of a camera or switching off of the camera, like, it's that guy and. And Kane too, you know, like these. These kids weren't waiting around for anyone, as you are also doing. Yeah. [00:33:09] Speaker A: And I feel like. I don't know, I feel like viewership of our virality can be a little bit misleading sometimes. Where it's like, why did this go viral? Is it because it's actually good? Or is there like one thing in it, like some gimmicky thing? And I think Curry and Kane are. [00:33:23] Speaker C: Never tell. [00:33:24] Speaker A: Yeah, you can never tell, but I [00:33:26] Speaker C: mean, you can tell when it's good. But yeah, if it's that one thing, it feels. [00:33:29] Speaker A: You don't know. You don't know. [00:33:31] Speaker B: But you could watch a short and say, this idea could probably be expanded into a feature. [00:33:36] Speaker A: Totally. [00:33:37] Speaker B: You know, or this. This short, the voice here, the tone here, that's a real filmmaker, right. That person can go make a movie. Like, I trust them totally. [00:33:46] Speaker C: You know, a lot of executives aren't [00:33:48] Speaker A: sometimes do not making that distinction. It's like, did this short go viral because it's good or because the thumbnail is like a girl in a bikini or something? [00:33:55] Speaker B: Like that happens. You can go on. And that's the importance of making 10 short films instead of one. [00:34:01] Speaker A: Totally. [00:34:01] Speaker B: And that's this crazy paralysis you see in these film school kids that come out exactly what you said. You make a short and it takes a year or two years, three years, and you have one short film. [00:34:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:11] Speaker B: And maybe it's amazing, but like, okay, what else do you have? It's like, well, I've been working on this for three years. [00:34:19] Speaker C: We'll Be right back. [00:34:25] Speaker B: I want to play like a scary song from like a horror movie before this, but all the copyright stuff. So I can't but imagine there's like a scary song playing right now and it's like, oh, the 5050 horror festival is coming. You need to submit your short film soon, by August 7th. August 7th is the deadline. You have two months to submit your short film. You have two months and then after that there's another deadline. Read it here first. Submit now. Submit now if you dare. Now we're for real. We have our horror festival coming up in October. October 18th is the actual day. Get your short in by August 7th if you want to be a part of it. We look forward to viewing your submission on film freeway 5050 horror. Those are the numbers. 5050 horror. [00:35:25] Speaker A: I think the cool thing about Curry's shorts in particular is like, I don't think people realize like A, how cheap they are and that's not in like a negative way. I just. He's not someone that had like $50,000 to invest in a single short. And B, like they weren't accepted by major festivals. [00:35:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:41] Speaker A: You look on the thumbnail and it's like these are all sort of like really tiny, like local festivals, online festivals. [00:35:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:47] Speaker A: And I don't want to like Denigrade like Sundance and like the people that come out of that or south by are these like major, major film festivals. But I think there has the amount of money that gets invested into short films now, especially the ones that get into those festivals has like eliminated the like middle or lower class filmmaker, someone like Curry who's like, I don't have $50,000 to invest in my short and use like an Alexa 35 or whatever. But I'm still like a really talented storyteller. And I just worry that like the barrier to entry for those festivals is too financially high for a lot of fucking people. It's for, for me, for Jenny and I think like YouTube is like. Or TikTok whatever. Like say what you want about it. Like, it is like a really shitty place in a lot of ways, but it is like a meritocracy. [00:36:35] Speaker B: Like, dude, I was, I was about to kind of butt up against the festival piece and say we'll look at social media. Exactly what you're saying. [00:36:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:44] Speaker B: Of like it's. You've answered that. [00:36:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:47] Speaker B: Of like these top tier festivals and Sundance movies are not really known to be box office hits. [00:36:52] Speaker A: No. [00:36:52] Speaker B: Right. And so that's the difference. You know, festivals like that that are Incredible. And start these amazing careers and auteur filmmakers and you know, you see so many amazing filmmakers that have changed cinema forever, like, come out of these festivals. [00:37:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:07] Speaker B: But there's also this new wave of filmmakers like Curry Barker and Kane. Kane, everyone. Sundance. [00:37:14] Speaker A: No. [00:37:15] Speaker B: These kids could. They talk like filmmakers. They talk like Sundance kids. But the stuff they were making didn't necessarily fit in the programming, you know, of this festival, which. It's just like times are changing. [00:37:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:27] Speaker B: You know, and like, how amazing is it that Curry Short could be seen by 5 million people totally on YouTube. Yeah. And they've never touched a festival. [00:37:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:37] Speaker B: You know, there's also. You know what I mean? [00:37:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:39] Speaker B: It's really. Yeah. [00:37:40] Speaker C: On social media there is an inherent, like craving for authenticity too. And for that almost like. And low budget. [00:37:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:47] Speaker C: Fits that. A lot of the time, like people want people. The most popular videos are just people with their phone going like this. Like that is what people want. People want to see that there's a person behind it. They want to see that there's a person who got a camera out. [00:37:59] Speaker A: That totally thing. [00:38:00] Speaker B: And it's. It's crazy is how simple a lot of this stuff is. But like, how many people are on YouTube a day? Like a billion active users, probably. Yeah. Crazy how many people go to Sundance. [00:38:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Exactly. [00:38:12] Speaker B: Maybe, you know, 100k or something. Over the span of. [00:38:15] Speaker A: Right. [00:38:15] Speaker C: It's just like. It's different. [00:38:17] Speaker B: It's so different. [00:38:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:18] Speaker B: You know, but. But it's interesting too. And you see again, like someone hits on YouTube or social media and then the transfer to a box office is really interesting. But it also makes sense. [00:38:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:32] Speaker B: You know, it's like more people there. Yeah. [00:38:36] Speaker A: And I feel like every of Curry or Kane or any director that came from a more like mumble core type. [00:38:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:44] Speaker A: Beginning will say like the jump from like a really shitty camera to a really big. A really nice camera is not that. [00:38:51] Speaker B: Because it's not about that. [00:38:52] Speaker A: It's not about that at all. And I just worry. I remember feeling so jaded the year two years after Film Score. I'm like. I feel like if I'm not shooting on the nicest camera, like my little short film, I'm not gonna be able to get into any of these festivals. [00:39:04] Speaker B: Yes. [00:39:05] Speaker A: Because there is like this barrier to entry. And you know, in. If the Duplass Brothers released the puffy chair in 2026, I don't think it would get into any of the those festivals, but I think it would go viral on like YouTube. [00:39:17] Speaker B: I agree which. [00:39:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know. I think if there was one major revelation for Sony, it was the potential for these platforms to host like more traditional filmmaking stories or mediums. Or just like you can put like a full feature on YouTube and like 5 million people might watch it. And like that's incredible. That's like so freeing. [00:39:40] Speaker B: That's what let obsession happen, right? [00:39:42] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:39:43] Speaker B: Like, it's, it's amazing. Yeah. And that sounds priceless to have had that opportunity to see that. [00:39:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:49] Speaker B: From the, the ground floor. [00:39:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:51] Speaker B: You know, it's really. So then in your career so far, like, I guess when was it time to. Because you no longer work it? [00:40:00] Speaker A: No, I left two months ago. [00:40:02] Speaker B: Two months ago? [00:40:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:03] Speaker B: Can you talk about the wave of, of as it was nearing and then when you actually left. [00:40:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:09] Speaker C: Especially since you had already built a following while you were working there, which is sometimes different of, oh, I'm doing this full time job, I don't have the time to do this. Let me quit and fully go out and start put like increasing output. Crazy. But you've maintained a similar output to some extent, right? Or at least. [00:40:27] Speaker A: Yeah, we actually have like cut back. But I think it's because we're trying to do more long form stuff. [00:40:31] Speaker C: Sure, sure. [00:40:31] Speaker A: And like, I don't know, I think it used to be like quantity over quality in a lot of ways where it's like, let's just throw a bunch of shit at the wall and see what sticks. And I think that might have come at the cost of a few sketches that probably aren't as good as we thought they were. I go back and watch them, I'm like, oh, there are some things I think we would have changed if we had shot it today. But yeah, it was also like a year of doing like going to work five days a week and then having to write eight sketches in a month and shoot eight sketches in a month. And it just got a little bit. It definitely felt like a ton of burnout. And then it was like, what do I want to invest my energy front? [00:41:07] Speaker B: Was it like, oh, it's Monday again or it was like, it's Saturday and I have to write sketches or both. [00:41:12] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I would just be at work thinking about Tube ed all day. And like I was trying, I like tried to leverage like the, you know, audience I had built or like our channel into doing like getting more opportunities at Sony. But it was just sort of that like, was it. [00:41:32] Speaker B: Were you guys kind of like really clicking at that point? Like, audience wise, were the numbers Going up. [00:41:38] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I feel like in the fall it like really jumped. [00:41:42] Speaker B: And then this is how many months in. Sorry, Just like put a real timeline on. [00:41:47] Speaker A: So the evolution was like March, April, May, like nothing or no. [00:41:52] Speaker B: And March was conversation with Milky. That. That's like the og. [00:41:55] Speaker A: It was like late February. And then we're like, we'll start at least in the March. [00:41:58] Speaker B: So March was. [00:41:59] Speaker A: And we always feel like this is going to. Every month is going to be like a season of television, which, like eight episodes. We're going to have a guest through the latter two episodes and it's almost like a cameo. And then we'll start the new month and we'll have different title cards and whatever. And. Yeah, so the march were all wide. All the wide sketches. And those were like a wash. And watch those. April and May, we sort of start to figure it out. Got a little bit of success with a few videos. And then the first video of June went like mega viral. And then it was like, okay, what is mega viral? [00:42:32] Speaker B: Like millions. [00:42:33] Speaker A: It wasn't. Honestly, like, in the grand scheme of things, it probably wasn't like mega viral for us. I think it's like, probably like, I don't know, it hit like 2 million in like three days. [00:42:42] Speaker B: Wow. [00:42:42] Speaker A: On TikTok. And we were like, oh, okay, this was the right decision. Like this. Our instincts were right and there is an audience for this. And from there it was like, still. Because you have like a viral video and low key that will account for like 85% of your followers. Yeah, in a lot of ways. Which is like, yeah, I think a lot of creators have that experience. And then you just sort of have to like, try to get to the next one or like, I don't know. Or just continue to grow, like, really slowly. But yeah, from that point on, it was like, did that add pressure to [00:43:22] Speaker B: writing all of a sudden? To acting, to shooting, to editing? [00:43:25] Speaker A: It added, well, it was a really strange sketch and kind of like, depressing. And I was like, is this what people want out of this? Like, yeah, yeah. It was like, yeah, I don't know. It was about like taking antidepressants. And I was like, I don't really want to be doing. Like, we're like, sillier than this. And Jenny was like, do we horror sketches be like this tone? I'm like, no, I think we should continue writing and producing things that feel natural. And I think in that process there will be a few of these. [00:43:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:57] Speaker C: These conversations are so interesting and so vital between you and Jenny. Of like your audience telling you that they like something and it's like, do we follow this or do we stick with maybe what we feel inclined to do? [00:44:11] Speaker B: Like, these are behind the note. [00:44:12] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. It's very interesting because I'm writing all of them and a lot of times it's like me coming to her and being like, do you want me to like, do you like this idea? Or like, do you like this idea? [00:44:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:26] Speaker A: And then it's her being like, go with that one. Or like, that one's funnier. And usually they're like tonally super different or I don't know, it's. It's always just like an ongoing, like, experiment in like narrative and just like the way to tell a sketch and the way to like organize it or structure it or whatever. But yeah. Anyways, June, that video did really well. And then we had a few more do, like, relatively successful at the end of the month. And from then on it was like every month we had like one or two that would hit like a million or two million. And then again it was like slow and slow growth till the rest of the year, honestly. But at a certain level it was like. Or a certain period it became. We were like, this is what we should be doing for the next like five years. Like, this is. This is the business and this is like the foundation that we can build all of our like, future film aspirations, like, off of. And that adds pressure. But also it's like, it's kind of a relief. [00:45:30] Speaker B: It's. [00:45:30] Speaker C: Yeah. I was gonna say it's like enlightening. [00:45:32] Speaker A: Totally. [00:45:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:33] Speaker A: Where it's like. And at that. And then at a certain point it was like seeing what Curry was doing, maybe this before this. But I was like, well, we can like shoot a feature and like put it on our YouTube channel. We have an audience now. [00:45:43] Speaker C: That is awesome. And that's exactly what. Yeah. I was talking about with like the modern version of totally a filmmaker. Like a well rounded filmmaker. [00:45:51] Speaker B: That idea or like vision in your head come with the. The day job. [00:45:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:58] Speaker B: Or was it. Oh, dead. [00:45:59] Speaker A: Totally. [00:46:00] Speaker B: So I was like, we're gonna keep doing this on top of the job. [00:46:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And I was like, so it wasn't [00:46:06] Speaker B: worth thinking about brand deals and partnerships and long term financial. [00:46:10] Speaker A: Well, it was that. I mean, I think like making money on social media is sometimes kind of a black box. And like, we've had like a few brand deals, but honestly it's a lot of like more of the freelance stuff that comes from like, too bad. And I think Milky would agree that that's like the majority of her income is not necessarily the brand deals that are on her Instagram, but more like these, like, random gigs she's doing based on the stuff. Exactly. But I think the idea of, like, just seeing how much money Sony was investing and what they were. Our team started to do something really interesting while I was there. Was like, put a bunch of money into like, original content that, like, wasn't tied to Sony. And I did like a few vertical shows and I was. This is. I was like, so in like the vertical headspace, I was like, this is the future. Like, you know, interview shows, like late night shows, like, all of the shit is gonna live on, like, TikTok and YouTube. And I think that is still true to a certain extent. But I also think there might be like, little bit of a. I don't know, a crescendo or like, I think there is a ceiling for some of that stuff in terms of like a money but also, like, audience. I still think you can get the biggest, like, slice of pie from an audience perspective. Like on TV probably, or on. Or in film. But yeah, I don't know. I was like, well, that's like, this should be like a digital studio. Like, we can start hiring other filmmakers to like, make stuff and put it on our YouTube channel. Like. And I think that was a little bit like pie in the sky. But I still do believe that, like, I don't know. There's so much potential for YouTube. Yeah. I don't know if that answered your question. I forget. [00:47:52] Speaker B: Yeah, that. [00:47:53] Speaker C: That completely makes sense. I almost, just. Because I was curious earlier, want to ask about your relationship with short films and doing that. Yeah. And like, yeah, like, because, yeah, we obviously, we know you from some of your shorts as well. I mean, that's. That's like the business that Luke is in. So I'm curious, Like, I'm in the business of short. [00:48:13] Speaker A: It's true. [00:48:16] Speaker C: I am too, I guess. [00:48:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:19] Speaker B: Who is it? [00:48:20] Speaker C: I'm curious about, like, what, you know, what. What had prompted you to make shorts and how that relates to sort of this, like, other short form stuff. [00:48:29] Speaker A: I think like, after college. Well, I mean, like one or two shorts in college, but they're like, weren't very good, but I really got like an itch or taste of directing. I was like, oh, I love doing this. I left the control. No, but I was like, oh, this is. I love writing something that I, like, in my head can visualize and like, I can direct this at some point. Like, that's way more fun than writing like, you know, a sci fi, like [00:48:58] Speaker C: opera that you like, could not. [00:49:00] Speaker A: You're like, I hope Nolan will tackle this someday. Fucking sack up and give me the money. But after college, I did like one short a year and that was, that was like, all the money I had was like, okay, I'll work, I'll save up like four or $5,000 and then that'll go towards the short that I can work on for like a year. And did. How many do I think? I mean, one a year? I think like three or I think I'm on my fourth. But yeah, I mean, it was just honestly, like, because we weren't doing too bad. It was sort of the only way I could like creatively express myself and actually like make something right because I wasn't doing anything on the Internet. And I think they're really great and like, you're on a set and you're like collaborating with people and you're directing actors and it's like, you know, it's a small amount of money in the grand scheme of things, but like, you know, it's. You're working with really nice equipment and like, I don't know, I think there is a lot of value in doing shorts. I think I realized that like, you know, and I didn't get into any like major festivals and I was like, damn, I'm spending a lot of money and time on these shorts. And like, I think they're good, but like, no one seems to be watching them or no one wants to program them. Like, how worth it are these? And I'm, I still feel like low key conflicted on it because, like, I think there's so much value and again like making something. But I also don't want to tell people to like invest their life savings into like a 12 minute short film that like, even if it got into like a major film festival, like, I'm still not sure what that's going to do for their career now. I'm sure there are plenty of filmmakers I would be like, I made a short and it got into Sundance and it changed my life and I made a feature. And like, that is also incredibly true. But that just hasn't been my experience or the experience of the people around me. Even those that have gotten into like these major festivals. [00:51:02] Speaker B: I mean, I can say from just like the horror side of things, I'm not so sure about comedy. Maybe no more that better than I do. But on the horror front, this isn't like a new Thing. [00:51:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:14] Speaker B: But short films. [00:51:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:16] Speaker B: Are incredibly valuable. [00:51:17] Speaker A: That's so true. [00:51:18] Speaker B: Doesn't matter if you get into Sundance. [00:51:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:19] Speaker B: Or Fantasia. It helps. [00:51:21] Speaker A: Sure. [00:51:21] Speaker B: But, like, if you have a great short. [00:51:24] Speaker A: Yeah. You can really elevate that. Yeah, totally. I mean. Yeah, that's a good point. [00:51:30] Speaker B: Like, I think it depends on the genre. And for you, that's true. [00:51:33] Speaker A: I was doing, like, dramas where, like, two guys were in a room talking about their feelings, and we were talking [00:51:38] Speaker C: about that, by the way, like, that is so refreshing and so bold of you to do. Do that. [00:51:42] Speaker A: Oh, I'm glad. Yeah. [00:51:43] Speaker C: Like, that. Like, just watching that short, that was, like. I was just like, this is so something that I would want to do or. [00:51:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:52] Speaker B: Like, this dude's a writer. [00:51:53] Speaker C: I know for a fact how hard that is to pull off. [00:51:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:57] Speaker B: And. [00:51:57] Speaker C: And how meaningful it is to, like, put two guys in a room having to talk about their feelings. [00:52:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:52:02] Speaker C: That is it. It has a lot to do with masculinity. [00:52:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:05] Speaker B: And can we talk about it? [00:52:07] Speaker C: Can you give the. [00:52:08] Speaker A: The log line as well for the Lakers one? [00:52:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Is this short called. Well, it's called Don't Pause the Game Now. But it was. It was actually the first thing I ever wrote that, like, I went through, like, you know, senior year to, like, junior year of college, senior of high school, junior year of college. I was writing every day, but I was like, I don't think I'm a very good writer. Like, and again, writing to the Void, and, you know, I would read them out loud. I'm like, this sucks. It sucks. But again, you're just sort of, like, sharpening that tool. And this was the first thing that, like, the Brown University. I don't know if they still do it. They have this, like, student film festival, and I, like, submitted on a whim. Yeah. Ivy Film Festival, I think it's called. [00:52:45] Speaker B: Yeah. It's a great festival. [00:52:46] Speaker A: And it, like, won the short script competition. And I was like, oh, that's kind of crazy. Like, is this good? [00:52:52] Speaker B: That's real? [00:52:53] Speaker A: I don't know. And then I remember sharing it with some people, and, Yeah. I mean, it gave me so much confidence as, like, a writer. And just like, oh, I think. [00:53:00] Speaker C: Oh, I think the structure was, like, so good. [00:53:04] Speaker A: I appreciate that. [00:53:05] Speaker C: Felt like one of those shorts that you would write for a class and the teacher would be like, no notes. [00:53:11] Speaker A: Like, that's what it felt. [00:53:12] Speaker B: When you make movies, you know, down the line, people will return to that and be like, oh, my God. Like, it was there we missed out on this. [00:53:19] Speaker A: I. I appreciate you guys saying. But seriously, I watched that short now, and I kind of cringe a little bit. [00:53:24] Speaker B: I'm sure. I'm sure. [00:53:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Some of the dialogue. [00:53:26] Speaker B: But as I emailed you this, like, I watch a lot of short films. Sometimes I think too many short films. [00:53:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:33] Speaker B: And the ones that stand out really stand out. And there are a rare few that, like, really stand out. [00:53:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:40] Speaker B: And I'm mainly watching horror and comedy because of the festival. But, like, I came across yours, which has. I guess you've done dramedy. [00:53:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:50] Speaker B: Like drama. [00:53:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:51] Speaker B: So it's different for me, but, like, just on a broad, very almost objective level, it's just really well done. And as I emailed you, too, like, for me, as a viewer, I really appreciate when you can feel the passion, like, the respect for a story, and you could tell that you really put in the time. And I'm sure there were a bunch of rehearsals. You were really thinking about the camera moves as well. It wasn't just, let's put a camera here and have. [00:54:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:24] Speaker B: You know, two guys on a couch. And that could be great, too. But, like, you really. It was like, wow, this is like a developed filmmaker. [00:54:31] Speaker A: I appreciate that a lot. Thank you so much. [00:54:33] Speaker C: Would you mind just giving the audience, like, the little. [00:54:35] Speaker A: Yeah. So the logline is like, there's. There's two guys. It was a Chris, the other guy's name Nick. And they're playing. It's been a while. [00:54:45] Speaker C: Just like. [00:54:46] Speaker B: Yeah. By the way, you definitely. [00:54:47] Speaker C: Chris. [00:54:47] Speaker B: They're playing. They're playing two kids. Yeah. That's probably why you saw Nance was like, no way. It's so legal. [00:54:53] Speaker A: You can't do that. I know. [00:54:56] Speaker C: Why is that illegal? [00:54:57] Speaker B: You can't just have 2k. [00:54:58] Speaker A: You probably can't drop it in your game. [00:54:59] Speaker C: I mean. [00:54:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:55:00] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:55:01] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:55:02] Speaker A: But while they're playing, Chris receives a call from his doctor and goes in the room and comes back, and then he reveals while they're playing that his, like, cancer has returned. And Nick wants to sort of stop and pause the game and, like, talk about her. Like, do you want to call your family? [00:55:17] Speaker C: Like, is his best friend. Nick is his best friend since, like, the age of. [00:55:21] Speaker A: Yeah. So his childhood best friend. And was there when the. He was first diagnosed and sort of went through that whole process. He's in a remission for a few years. Yeah. [00:55:30] Speaker C: Yeah. Which, by the way, this. It's such like a. Feels like a proof of concept for A bigger thing. Yeah, totally. I mean, such a world around this. [00:55:40] Speaker A: And Chris is just adamant about, like, no, let's finish the game. Like, this is. I kind of saw this coming. And, you know, you figure out that, like, this is sort of the last moment of normalcy he's probably gonna have for a long time. [00:55:54] Speaker C: So he's just like, let. Let's finish the game. Let's let it last a little bit longer. [00:55:58] Speaker A: Yes. And he's not communicating that. He's just sort of being a little nonchalant about it. And Nick is freaking out. [00:56:05] Speaker C: He's like, what the fuck are you doing? We need to talk about this. You need to tell everybody. [00:56:08] Speaker A: Yes. [00:56:09] Speaker C: When that's not what Chris needs. [00:56:11] Speaker A: No. [00:56:11] Speaker C: To me, it was so thematically of, like, guys trying to talk about something really serious. [00:56:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:17] Speaker C: And resorting to anger. [00:56:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:19] Speaker C: Instead of actually discussing, like, why someone needs what they want. [00:56:24] Speaker A: I think it's that sort of, like, male mentality of, like, you just sort of, like, push things down until. And then you just, like, die one day. And then it just, like, explodes into a cloud of dust. Like. [00:56:34] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:56:35] Speaker A: It's like the world has gotten a [00:56:36] Speaker C: little bit worse because. [00:56:37] Speaker A: Yeah. No, 100%. [00:56:39] Speaker C: Every man dying because they push everything [00:56:41] Speaker A: I have, and I'm. I'm like, just as bad as Chris in terms of, like, I have friends that have gone through, like, horrible things and, like, I've had my own issues. And, like, I talk to friends about it and it's like, oh, you give, like, the barest little, like. [00:56:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:56:54] Speaker A: Sort of been like, going through this lately. And then they're like, damn, like, are you okay? And you're like, yeah, I'm fine. And then it's like, they know. It's like, you're probably not okay, but, like, as your guy friend, like, it's not really my job. [00:57:06] Speaker C: It's terrifying for both of us to talk about the totally nothing's. [00:57:09] Speaker A: And it's like, do you want to just, like, go play basketball and, like, never talk about this again? [00:57:13] Speaker B: And you're like, yes. [00:57:14] Speaker A: Yes. [00:57:14] Speaker B: But sometimes that really does. [00:57:16] Speaker A: Yeah. No festers for sisters. [00:57:19] Speaker C: And I liked that the end they were. They actually were able to have a moment where they could totally be on the exact same page. [00:57:25] Speaker B: Did you do improv at all? No, because this felt. I say that because it. It feels like, like, for me, improv was and still is super helpful as, like, a writing tool because you're. If you're even like, in a scene or something and, like, revealing truth to kind of keep elevating or escalating, especially with sketches. But, like, your short really had these beats of escalation. [00:57:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:48] Speaker B: And, like, whether it was truth being revealed and, like, further truth and deeper truth, and we're learning more context as the audience, as the viewer. [00:57:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:55] Speaker B: Like this. He was in remission, and he is now. It's back. [00:57:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:58] Speaker B: You know, best friend has been through this before, etc, but I guess you haven't done that, so it probably just came from writing before. [00:58:05] Speaker A: I think. It's just. I also, like, used to write in this book much more, like, rhythmic way in, like, the way that they talk is so sort of, like, not musical, but, like, I used to be obsessed with, like, Aaron Sorkin and just the way that, like, dialogue can feel, like score or, like, a rhythm and, like, [00:58:21] Speaker C: the musicality of it. [00:58:22] Speaker A: There's a way, if you emphasize this word, it's going to work for his next line. And, like, the joke is only going to work if you, like, raise your voice a little bit at this moment. But, like. [00:58:32] Speaker C: And the. The moments between. Totally, too. Like, the pauses. [00:58:35] Speaker A: One. [00:58:36] Speaker C: One line that. And I feel like while it was a drama, I still was like. I was like, what's gonna make me laugh? And there was funny stuff. [00:58:44] Speaker A: Yeah. I feel like you need levity. [00:58:47] Speaker C: Nick is the one who doesn't have cancer. [00:58:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:49] Speaker C: So Nick, like, Chris is. They're kind of sitting there, and there's a pause and. And somewhat. Maybe Nick says, like, are you gonna shave your head? And, yeah. Chris is like, yeah. And then there's a pause, and Chris is like, you want to ask me if you can shave your head? [00:59:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:02] Speaker B: Yeah, Right. [00:59:03] Speaker C: Like, you want it? And I was like, that's a funny joke. [00:59:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's sort of like performing. Not performative, but it's like, you can already see the Instagram post of, like, damn, my boys got it again. Or, I don't know, in solidarity. And it's like, I feel like you just wanted to know what you would look like with a buzz cut. Yeah. But, yeah, those two actors I knew from college, and I was sort of talking to you about this before we started rolling, but, like, I filmed a version of this in college, and I had no idea how to direct something right to the point where, like, we finished it and I was editing it and, like, it was in log, and I was like, oh, cool, it's done. And then I, like, sent it to some friends, some editor friends. They're like, oh, when are you going to color it? I'm like, what do you mean, color it? Like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look at. There's color in it. Yeah, look, it's like that shade of gray and that shade of gray. [00:59:53] Speaker B: Yeah, it's great. [00:59:54] Speaker C: There's, like, so many different versions of gray. [00:59:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:57] Speaker A: I'm like, it fits the moodiness. [00:59:58] Speaker B: Color. [00:59:58] Speaker C: Bl. [00:59:59] Speaker A: Yeah. But then after I moved out here, they moved out here, too, and they're good friends, and I just asked them, like, do you want to reshoot this? Because I feel like the first version is pretty bad, but this script is. I still like the script, and I think you guys are great. And it's really cheap. Like, it's one location. [01:00:19] Speaker C: You clearly just shot it in, like, one of your. Yeah. [01:00:21] Speaker A: Buddy's apartment. Yeah. With like, a crew of, like, six people. And. Yeah. No, I mean, it was. It was super fun to make. And, like, for as dramatic. Dramatic as it was, I think, like, yeah, there's. There's enough comedy in it. And, like. And I would never let either of them get, like, too overly sentimental because it sort of cringes me out a little bit. And that sort of, like, big performance style I feel a little allergic to. But, like, I think it works. [01:00:52] Speaker C: It's hard to do that in a short, too. [01:00:53] Speaker A: Yeah, totally work. [01:00:55] Speaker B: It totally. Yeah, it works. [01:00:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:00:57] Speaker A: But I'm funny. I really, like, don't write like that anymore. And so it's funny to go back and rewatch that, like, sort of rat a tat dialogue. [01:01:04] Speaker C: Yeah. But it feels like it's like you and you're, like, almost the purest form of, like. [01:01:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:10] Speaker C: Writing. To me, at least. I think some of the early stuff that you write is, like, it may not be the best thing that you think that you could ever make. And you shot it on whatever. And it didn't look the best, at least the first time, but yet there is still something there that you can, like, see. [01:01:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I feel like I got a very good sense of you watching that. And I know it's not how you write per se anymore, but to me, it's like, okay. He. This is a filmmaker that is interested in relationships and dynamics between people. He would rather have two dudes on a couch. Yeah. And in conversation playing 2K. [01:01:44] Speaker A: Yep. [01:01:44] Speaker B: Then he would, you know, 10 locations and totally alien. And a car, you know, whatever it is. [01:01:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:51] Speaker B: I, after watching that, got a very good sense of you. And we talk about, wow, calling card shorts. And to me, you should be sending that to everyone. [01:02:04] Speaker A: Oh, you think so? [01:02:05] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I also, on top of that, Would want to say it is super interesting to reshoot old work. Freddie McDonald, who we had on. [01:02:15] Speaker C: He was our first guest. [01:02:16] Speaker B: First guest. He made a short that went viral and then got the feature in development. And they actually eventually shot the thing and the short became like the first scene or something or a sequence within it. And he was able to reshoot it, but hearing him talk about that and they went back to the same location, Switzerland, different actors, but like, it seemed to be a very, like, fruitful. It was like two years later. [01:02:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Really? [01:02:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, wow, I've grown so much as a director, writer. [01:02:48] Speaker C: These, these projects are never done. Yes. [01:02:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:50] Speaker C: You can always go out and reshoot it with different people or when you've learned more and stuff like that. Like. No, the belief in your ideas. [01:02:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:58] Speaker C: You know, in your scripts. [01:02:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:00] Speaker B: What with. Too bad. Too bad. You're talking about long form. I see the time like web series is. Is happening, I guess. Can you give the brief on that and the hope for that? [01:03:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, we, Jenny and I were meeting with. We met with this like, producer a while ago and it was just sort of like he reached out to us and sort of wanted to see what our. What we wanted to do long term. And we didn't really have. We knew what we wanted to do. We wanted to be directors and we wanted to make, you know, longer things, but we didn't really have anything like fully fleshed out. And then right before the call, we were like, we should have like something to pitch him. And I had written this pilot that was just about like a, like an Apartment sitcom. And I love Seinfeld and like New Girl in Apartment. Just most departments in comms. And there really hasn't been one for Gen Z, I feel like. I mean, there's like a few attempts. I don't know. There hasn't been like a. [01:03:56] Speaker C: You want to do your version of it? [01:03:58] Speaker A: Yeah, and I, I don't want to do like. I want to do like something that feels almost like a cartoon or like Seinfeld where like every episode is self contained and then like the next episode, like someone could go to the moon in episode one and episode two. Like, they don't even reference it. Like, I really love that. And it's so. I mean, that's what our sketches are. So we come up with this idea for this show called Light Years with these like four characters and sort of Lucy pitch it to him. He was like, yeah, like, I really like, don't have the money or power to make that, but like you guys, that's a great idea. We were like, oh, damn, we should. Yeah. Probably sell the Porsche. But then we kept thinking about it and we were really like, this idea, and we're like, should we shoot, like, a pilot and, like, you know, put it online? And then we're like, that's a lot of money and time for, like, one piece of content. And then we sort of settled on, like, let's do, like, scenes from this show and we can frame it as like, this is a web series, but, like, it's gonna have the same reoccurring characters and, like, low key. This is just a proof of concept for, like, a longer form television show. And, like, you know, the three episodes that are out right now are not narratively linked to one another. It's the same characters, but, like, you don't need to have watched Hot Water to know what happens in Good Boy. [01:05:18] Speaker B: And they feel like vignettes. [01:05:20] Speaker A: Totally. They're like, I. They're like, the word. Like, they're sort of splitting the difference between a short film and, like, a sketch because, like, they are longer form narratives, but, like, we're not shooting with nice cameras or with any lighting. [01:05:37] Speaker B: Are you using that same camera setup? [01:05:39] Speaker A: Yeah, it's the same mentality, except we just sort of flip it. [01:05:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:05:42] Speaker B: That's amazing though, man. And it's. I keep going, though, because I'll go on a rant about that. [01:05:46] Speaker A: Well, I think, yeah, we did three of them. Had a ton of fun making them. And, like, I'm not. I'm in one as, like, a cameo, but it was really nice just to be able to, like, write and direct them. And, yeah, we were able to work with, like, a couple actors that we never worked with. And the guy that plays Vince, his name is Max. The actor's name is Max, and he's like, my childhood best friend. And originally it was gonna be me and him playing with the Vincent Pete, but him and I are so similar that there didn't feel like there was, like, enough distinction between us as actors or us as people. [01:06:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:06:22] Speaker A: And so, like, he took over the Vince, and then we hired Jacob Stoudemire, who actually, I shouldn't say hired. We didn't pay him anything. [01:06:29] Speaker C: The man. [01:06:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:06:32] Speaker A: We accosted him and then dragged him. [01:06:33] Speaker C: We'll bleep that out. [01:06:34] Speaker A: Yeah, we paid him a lot. [01:06:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:36] Speaker A: Thousands of dollars. [01:06:37] Speaker C: His quote is insane at this point. [01:06:39] Speaker B: He's amazing, though. Yeah. Like, he really is a really talented dude. [01:06:43] Speaker A: He does everything. He's so funny, too. He's such a good actor and he has like the single best face of anyone I've ever seen. [01:06:51] Speaker C: Totally does the best. There's a reason why he's like booking commercials. [01:06:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. He's got like a Gosling situation. [01:06:57] Speaker A: He does. You know, you look like a baby, but also an old man. Like, you have a mustache, but you also have these like. I don't know. [01:07:04] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:07:05] Speaker B: Really great eyes. [01:07:06] Speaker A: Straight eyes. [01:07:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Big baby boy. [01:07:09] Speaker A: But it was also a test of like our YouTube channel, which had like grown a ton just through the shorts. But I mean, this is a whole nother conversation. But, like making the jump from like shorts to longer form stuff on your YouTube channel is really interesting because, like the majority of your audience like, won't follow you there. Like, it's, it's, it's building a whole new channel. [01:07:31] Speaker B: Curry spoke about that, about that also genre shifting, as in they went from their whole channel was comedy to then posting a horror short, of course. So that was received incredibly well. [01:07:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:44] Speaker B: Do you feel the same with these? I think the, the tone is definitely similar. [01:07:49] Speaker A: The tone is similar. I think the fact that Jenny and I are not in all of them interesting is, I don't know, maybe some sort of a shift and I think. Yeah, I don't know. I think we haven't really cracked it yet. Like, we want to do more and even just from like a thumbnailing situation or like the title. [01:08:14] Speaker C: The first few months of your sketch. Exactly. Like, it's. It takes time. You guys are. You guys have that kind of relationship [01:08:20] Speaker B: where you've made that step. [01:08:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:22] Speaker B: Where you're now, you're not starting at zero, you're starting at, you know, a year or two. How long has it been of two bed, two bath? [01:08:28] Speaker A: Just over a year. [01:08:29] Speaker B: Okay, so just over a year of all of this experience. [01:08:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:08:33] Speaker A: Now we're. [01:08:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:34] Speaker A: Doing more. Webster. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I think we're doing more and yeah, I don't know, at this point we're just sort of like, you know, continue doing sketches like once a week and then trying to do more long form stuff. And you know, we want to shoot like a full feature next year, but I think we need to build up sort of our longer form, I don't know, portfolio a little bit more. And like, I don't think we could just dump like a 90 minute long movie and expect like a bunch of people to watch it. [01:09:06] Speaker B: Is the longer form portfolio just more of these web series vignettes or more of like a pilot or what does that look, like. [01:09:12] Speaker A: I would say it's like, more of the web series. And then we have, like, I wrote, like, a full. A feature script a few months ago that we want to make and just, like, put it on YouTube. [01:09:23] Speaker B: Can you write a feature in, like, a day? [01:09:25] Speaker A: No, that. No, it. Honestly, like, it's. [01:09:28] Speaker B: You seem like the guy that could just, like, write a feature. [01:09:31] Speaker A: If I have an idea, I can write it pretty quickly. It was funny. [01:09:34] Speaker B: What is quickly for you? [01:09:35] Speaker A: I could probably. The one I wrote for her, and I took me, like, two weeks. [01:09:40] Speaker B: Okay. [01:09:41] Speaker A: But I had quit my job, so I had more time. [01:09:43] Speaker B: Oh, that's right. [01:09:44] Speaker A: I had more time. That's the question. [01:09:47] Speaker B: So can we return all the way back to. [01:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:09:50] Speaker B: Of, like, when you were quitting your job? [01:09:54] Speaker A: I guess I quit my job because it got to a point where I felt so burnt out, and I was like, okay, one of these things is gonna suffer. And financially, it gotten to a point where I was like, I think I can make it work with some freelance stuff. And, like, this feels like the time to do this, to make the jump. And we were. Because the beginning of this year, we were, like, doing sketches. We were doing the web series, and I was working at Sony, and I was producing a show for them that I was also shooting on the weekends. And it just got to a point where it was like, these things are sorting, starting to suffer a little bit creatively. And, like, I think my writing is low key, getting not worse, but, like, I'm not putting as much time into each sketch or, like, each web series episode. And that, to me, is, like, the biggest thing. And so, yeah, I just had to make the decision. It was like, it was now or never. And, yeah, I mean, like, it was like a. You know, doing two bedtubes in the last year has been super great, but, like, it was tiring, man. Like, I was unhappy for, like, not a lot of it, but, like, there were definitely moments where I was like, this is way too much, and this is not sustainable either. Like, yeah, I can maybe do this for, like, a year, and then I don't know. Yeah, exactly. But, yeah, I left in, like, April, and right after I left, there were, like, massive layoffs at Sony, and, like, people on my team got cut, and, like, all the original content that we were doing got cut. And so I was like, okay. I think that was a sign that I made the right decision. But, yeah, I mean, I still sometimes go back and forth about, like, should I have stayed? Or, like, yeah, I don't know. I mean, that financial security is definitely a lot better. And it's. It's doing freelance, you know, is a little bit. I don't know, feel a little untethered at times. Yeah. [01:11:41] Speaker B: Different type of pressure. [01:11:42] Speaker A: Exactly. But, yeah, I think ultimately it's been, I don't know. More better than good. [01:11:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:49] Speaker A: Or better. Well, it. [01:11:51] Speaker C: We have covered so much. [01:11:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:53] Speaker C: In this episode. [01:11:54] Speaker B: Because you do so much. [01:11:55] Speaker C: Because you do so much. Every time I feel like. [01:11:58] Speaker B: Does it make you. Are you, like, hearing yourself being like, oh, maybe I am doing a little bit, or no. [01:12:05] Speaker C: Yeah. How does it feel talking about it? [01:12:07] Speaker A: I think I. [01:12:09] Speaker B: Because I'm tired. [01:12:10] Speaker A: Yeah. I feel like. I think it sounds. Maybe it is a lot, but it doesn't. I think it's, like, spaced out to a point where, like, I don't feel like I'm working, like, 12 hours a day on everything all the time. I think, like, I write a lot, but I've gotten so used to that. Like, that doesn't necessarily count as doing anything. Yeah. It doesn't feel like doing anything, honestly. Or like writing a sketch doesn't feel like doing anything. [01:12:34] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like, whatever. [01:12:35] Speaker A: Or it's like, I have to go and, like, edit. I should go and edit a feature. Yeah. Or something like that. Which I'm glad that it doesn't feel that way because I think if it did feel like work, I probably wouldn't. I would stop doing it at some point. [01:12:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:48] Speaker A: But cool. Yeah. [01:12:50] Speaker C: Nice, man. Well, we do ask one final question to all of our guests, and it is, what is the dream? It's intentionally vague. Take it how you want. [01:13:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:01] Speaker C: But we always love sort of looking into the future and discussing that. [01:13:05] Speaker A: I think the dream would be, I've changed so much over the last, like, year. I feel like it used to be like, I want to be a writer, director. I want to do, like, one movie every, like, three years, and then like, right in those inter years. But I think now it's like, I want to do a sitcom with Jenny and do that for, like, five or six years and create, like, a massively, like, ubiquitous sitcom in the style of, like, Seinfeld or New Girl or something like something for, like, our generation that, like, a lot of people are watching and feels congruent with what we're doing with Too Bad. And, yeah, I think that's. That's where I am writing. We're like, that's the most fun writing is writing episodes of that show. [01:13:51] Speaker C: There is something to that, because when you watch Seinfeld, And New Girl. And yeah. Two bed, two bath. You feel like you want to just be in the room with them and be living with them. Like you want to be the third roommate. [01:14:03] Speaker A: That level of comfort that I get from watching the shows I want to create. [01:14:06] Speaker C: Like, how fun would it be to just, like, be a fly on the wall in an episode of New Girl? [01:14:10] Speaker A: Exactly. [01:14:11] Speaker C: That's exactly that. [01:14:12] Speaker B: I want to live with these people. [01:14:13] Speaker C: I share that sentiment. [01:14:14] Speaker B: I really respect that. And I think it takes a lot of self awareness and also just, like, confidence in yourself, which maybe it is more of like an awareness thing. But if, like, you're able to, like, look at instead of like, oh, I want to go make a movie, because that's what everyone's doing. It's like, what am I? What do I have in my hand? [01:14:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:36] Speaker B: And like, you've built this, like, incredible world of the brand is there, the tone is there, the characters are there. You have a sense of your voice as a writer. [01:14:45] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:14:46] Speaker B: When it comes to episodic and specifically your love of Seinfeld and these sitcoms. Yeah. And like, that totally makes sense. [01:14:54] Speaker A: Thank you. [01:14:55] Speaker B: You know, like, it's a. It's a very. It might seem lofty to you or not to me. Like, it seems incredibly realistic. And it's like. Oh, yeah. [01:15:03] Speaker A: Yeah, duh. [01:15:04] Speaker C: Completely. [01:15:05] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I hope that's what it feels natural writing it and like. [01:15:08] Speaker C: Yeah, Right. [01:15:09] Speaker A: Shooting the web series, which are sort of just like scenes from this potential TV show. [01:15:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:15:13] Speaker B: Would you want it to live on YouTube or it'd be like a season on YouTube. [01:15:17] Speaker A: Good question. I think it could. I feel like. I don't know what. You know, there's a lot of YA television on YouTube that does really, really well. Like, there's this girl. What's her name? I think her name's like, Kanigra Dion, who owns this, like, massive studio in Alabama and just makes like, YA tv. And she started out doing, like, sketches. And I think there is an audience for it. I just wonder. I don't know. I think. Yes. But also, like, I want to shoot it like sci fi. I want to shoot it in, like, sound stages and like. [01:15:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:56] Speaker A: Dress like a restaurant, but it just looks like the vague restaurant. [01:16:00] Speaker B: It's like a cartoon, so can see that. [01:16:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:03] Speaker B: Like, really? And I. I again, I respect and appreciate that because it's just so you. [01:16:11] Speaker A: Oh, I appreciate that. [01:16:12] Speaker B: Like, you do. Do you journal a lot? Are you, like, pretty? Do you feel like you're. You're constantly in your head? [01:16:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I Don't think. I probably don't journal as much, but [01:16:20] Speaker B: I guess what that represents. [01:16:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:16:22] Speaker C: You always have an inner monologue. [01:16:24] Speaker A: Maybe. Yeah. I mean, it's just funny because, like, I will think, like, there have been, like, sketches that we've done that are, like, a little bit cathartic emotionally and not like I'm like, behind the monitor crying. But there's like, there was, like, a line in a sketch where, like, the sketch is Jenny loses her sense of humor and I have to sort of like Clockwork Orange her, like, you know, fill her with all this comedic things to get it back. But then I. What's the word? I overcorrect. And she becomes funnier than me and I have to go back. And she was like, why? And I'm like, this is all I have. And she was like, oh, that's so true. Like, she said that afterwards. And I was like, yeah, I guess that is true. Who wrote this? But, yeah, there is stuff like that that I'm like, okay. I'm glad I have an outlet for this sort of thing. [01:17:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:12] Speaker A: Even if it's like, I'm the only one that really sees it. [01:17:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:17:15] Speaker B: So cool, man. [01:17:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:17:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:16] Speaker A: Thank you guys so much for having me on. [01:17:17] Speaker C: Oh, my God. So fun. [01:17:18] Speaker B: Fun. [01:17:19] Speaker A: It's so fun to have people. [01:17:20] Speaker B: We didn't talk about school. Or I guess we did talk about school. [01:17:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:17:23] Speaker C: I feel like it was a pretty well rounded. [01:17:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Interview. [01:17:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:17:27] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't work for Emerson. [01:17:31] Speaker C: They have a beautiful building. [01:17:34] Speaker B: Sweet. Did you learn something? Unlike your mom? Did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging. Make sure you follow us at the 5050 Fest on Instagram and give us five stars, because. Why not? Why not subscribe? Why not? You know why not? Okay, bye.