HOW TO: Infuse Physicality Into Your Filmmaking (w/ Santi MacLean)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: There was a moment in which I wanted him to be more internal with what he was saying, and I was giving that note, and eventually I was just like, I actually don't want you to ever move your hands. Like, I just. And so all of a sudden, all that energy that's, like, coming out of your hands, like, you have to, like, channel it into your speaking. And so there's all. All that energy has to be here all of a sudden. [00:00:29] Speaker B: I love a restriction. [00:00:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And so those little tricks, like, I feel like I, like, get from Action Speed. [00:00:38] Speaker C: I'm Luke Steinfeld. [00:00:39] Speaker B: And I'm Wyatt Sarkissian. [00:00:41] Speaker C: We made the 5050 podcast to support you on your filmmaking journey. [00:00:44] Speaker B: 50% business, 50% creative. [00:00:47] Speaker C: Every Tuesday, a new how to. [00:00:49] Speaker B: This week, we talk with filmmaker Santi Maclean. We begin the conversation getting into the nitty gritty about action theater, an extremely physical acting method that Santi not only teaches himself, but implements into his directing as well. You see, Santi reminds us of the importance of being in touch with our physical selves, regardless of whether we're in front of or behind the camera. Santi is currently on the journey also of writing and directing 12 short films. Think of it like an album composite pile together to form a thematic through line. Speaking of short films, Santi will also be at our 5050 Horror Festival on October 18th. That is October 18th, everybody. Tickets are open now. The link is in the episode description and our Instagram bio at the 5050fest on Instagram. That is he5050fest on Instagram. Enjoy the episode. It's been a big year for you. [00:01:46] Speaker A: You were telling me it has been a big. It's been, like, a busy. A busy year. And actually I just did like, a cr. Like, I shot like, a short at the end of August or at the beginning of August, and then I, like, went to Canada for, like, a teacher's retreat for this thing that I teach. And then I went to New York to edit the short, and then I came back, and then I was, like, on a job. And then now I'm here and I'm sort of like, okay, like, yeah, so it has been kind of like, how [00:02:12] Speaker C: was it going somewhere else to edit? [00:02:15] Speaker A: It was nice. Well, because my friend who edits all of my shorts, he lives in New York, and so we always work remotely. But this one was, like. I keep saying it's like my fancy one. Like, we had been doing a bunch of shorts for, like, a thousand dollars, basically. Like, and then this one, we, like, raised some money and had a Budget. And so I was like, we're gonna be there for a week and we're gonna picture lock at the end of the week. Like, it was like more kind of strict. [00:02:40] Speaker C: You started editing that week and finished editing or. [00:02:43] Speaker A: We had some time. There was some lead up time in between, like we shot. And then there was like two weeks before I got there. And so, like, I had, did. I did like, I did like my own rough assembly and he did a rough assembly and then we, like, met together. So there was some time to like, digest the footage before we were actually like, in the room. But it was nice going somewhere else because it's like you feel like you're like, I'm here and I like, I'm working on this. I wake up and I'm thinking about it. [00:03:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:07] Speaker A: Have you ever done that before? [00:03:08] Speaker C: Yeah, I spent like a year editing a short once and got really lost in it. But then I went. I, like, I was so burnt out. [00:03:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:21] Speaker C: In la. And then I went to New York for Tribeca, the festival, which is a massive inspiration for 50 50, but that's besides the point. And we just like a sponge there and watching all this great stuff and we're just getting so inspired by shorts and features, whatever, meaning cool people having cool conversations and, like, was able to kind of go home at the end of the day and like, edit, you know, through the night. Yeah. Like, just be in this, like, new space. I was staying with my brother in his apartment in East Village and it's [00:03:52] Speaker B: like, it really just. [00:03:53] Speaker C: Change in scenery. [00:03:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:54] Speaker B: Yeah, same with riding, I find. [00:03:56] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. [00:03:56] Speaker B: Going outside or. [00:03:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:58] Speaker B: Like riding on a plane. Going on vacation. Like. [00:04:00] Speaker A: Yeah, a little raining retreat. Yeah. [00:04:03] Speaker B: Change of scenery. [00:04:04] Speaker C: Where was the teacher? [00:04:05] Speaker A: Yeah, it was in Montreal, so. Yeah, it was nice. [00:04:08] Speaker B: We were talking a lot outside about your. You're a teacher. [00:04:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:13] Speaker B: And how teaching informs your directing, your acting, all of that. So that's definitely, like a topic we should cover because that's one of the reasons why I was excited to have you on, because my parents are both teachers and I love thinking about education and entertainment sort of like connected to each other as one. [00:04:33] Speaker A: Nice. [00:04:35] Speaker B: How did you. So you. You went to Emerson with Wiley and you were in, like, a theater education program. [00:04:42] Speaker A: I was in the performance program, but I took. I took one theater education class and, like, it really stuck with me. Like, I still use, like, a lot of the skills. [00:04:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:50] Speaker A: That I learned from that class. [00:04:52] Speaker B: And then when you came out here, how did you. Were you like, oh, I should. Because I took that Class I should like, yeah, for teaching, like, what was your relate. [00:05:00] Speaker A: So basically, so I. I teach this movement technique called Action Theater. And so when I was at Emerson, I was there in the theater and performance. It's like a hybrid. Like you're doing writing and directing, but you're also in an acting program. And I was having like, kind of a hard time with my training. Like, I didn't feel like I was getting like, I wasn't super happy with my training and it wasn't really clicking. And I had had like a few experiences that had really shot my confidence down. And I remember there's this one semester where I was like, I just want to take only movement classes. Like, I just want to be in my body. I don't want to like, think about, like, how I come off. Like, what are my, like, habits as an actor? [00:05:40] Speaker B: You'd be so self conscious. [00:05:41] Speaker A: Yeah, like, I had gotten really self conscious and I took this class called Action Theater. And it just like changed everything and it made all of my other classes make sense because I created like an awareness and I felt like it was this like, secret language that I was all of a sudden speaking. Like, the next semester I like went abroad and did like a. I did like this like classical, like Shakespeare and like Stanislavski thing. And I still felt like I was using the stuff from that. [00:06:09] Speaker C: Where did you go? Where was that? [00:06:11] Speaker A: It was the London Dramatic Academy. It doesn't exist anymore, but I really liked that program. And then basically when I came back, I went to my teacher and I was like, I'm thinking about this class all the time. And I was like, I feel like it's my practice. I feel like I understand when people have a yoga practice. I'm like, my practice. And she let me start auditing the class and so I would take it. I took it again every day. [00:06:40] Speaker C: Can you kind of break into what the actual curriculum or what that is? [00:06:45] Speaker A: So Action Theater, it's a movement technique. It was invented by this woman named Ruth Zapora. She was in the Bay Area and she was a dancer. And she. It was like in this time in like the 80s and 90s, when like a lot of people were getting like grants and stuff, getting paid to just like develop things in studios. Like. And I think at the time as a dancer, she was like, everyone was so focused on like, feeling and like vibes. She was like, I want to be very direct with everything. And also as a dancer, she was like, I want to learn how to speak and how to approach speaking and sound. From a movement perspective. And so basically it's like a bunch of exercises. It starts with, you do movement only and then you do some exercises where you incorporate sound and then eventually you add in language. And so. But when you're speaking, like you're approaching it like movement rather than being like, what I'm saying is important or like it's like, like it'd be like me talking right now, like approaching this like it's a movement piece rather than like me telling you how, how I'm feeling. Like I don't know. [00:07:56] Speaker C: I don't know what that means. [00:07:57] Speaker A: How do you. [00:07:58] Speaker C: What is that? [00:07:58] Speaker B: I'm hanging with it a little bit. [00:07:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:00] Speaker A: Yeah. It's a bit like convoluted. [00:08:02] Speaker C: Yeah, totally. [00:08:03] Speaker B: How do you provide like value to the words then if you're just treating it or like feeling an emotion? Like, where does that. [00:08:11] Speaker A: So basically, like, emotion is like not a thing that we really talk about in action theater. Like, it's, it's, it's like a bunch of steps. So first is this like Marshall. [00:08:20] Speaker C: I know it's not, but like. [00:08:21] Speaker A: No, no, it's like a walking. It's like an improvised. It's like an improv practice basically. [00:08:26] Speaker C: But like run it. Like, is it like, hey, it's. You two are going to buy eggs at a grocery store? [00:08:33] Speaker A: No, no, nothing like that. Like it's. [00:08:35] Speaker C: You're a cat. Like what is. [00:08:38] Speaker A: So basically it starts with a bunch of like, do you know movement exercises. [00:08:40] Speaker C: I don't. [00:08:41] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. So basically like, like the first like hour, two hours of the class would be like, you start and like there's a warm up where you like bring people into their body. And so it's like just like having. Have you guys ever meditated before? [00:08:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:54] Speaker A: So it's kind of like doing like a meditation but like with your full body. And then like, and then you start. There's like different exercises where it's like, okay, like explore movement in your legs. Like, and, and from there, like what is that bringing up? Like how, how does your like, shoulder feel like in relationship to your legs? Moving, like, and it's like very abstract, I would say. [00:09:18] Speaker C: A body scan. [00:09:19] Speaker A: It's like a body scan. And then, and then the improvisation. It's like, I mean like if, if [00:09:25] Speaker B: I go like that, what is. [00:09:27] Speaker A: Yeah, what does it do? And like you're building an awareness. [00:09:29] Speaker B: And how is like it's very like primal. [00:09:33] Speaker A: Primal. Yes. It's like very like, it's, it's like getting rid of all the context of everything and it's not. I wouldn't say it's like a traditional acting class. Like, dancers come and I would say it's like a. Some people might think of it as like a. Maybe like a contemporary dance practice, like, or, like a physical. It's a physical theater practice. And so then eventually, when you add in language, like, you're not doing, like, circumstances. Like, it'll be like, okay, do, like a. Do like, a language improvisation. Like, and. Yeah, so that I want, like, that kind of thing. Yeah, but it's like, you start off, like, very small. Like, it's like. It's like you'd be doing, like, three hours of, like, movement before you add in talking. And so then you're not even doing it. Like, this is so funny. I'm like, there's like. There are these things called frames in Action theater. So, like, it's. It's like you're exploring, like, a movement world. So, like, in movement, like. Can I put this mic down for a second? I'm like, demonstration. [00:10:40] Speaker B: Let me mic you. [00:10:41] Speaker A: So, like, basically, like, this. Like, I'm, like, doing this, right? Like, let's say I'm doing this, like, my whole body. Like, this is like a. Like a world. Like a movement world that I'm in. And then that's very different from, like, if I was, like, doing this. Like, this is like a whole other thing. [00:11:00] Speaker C: Like. [00:11:01] Speaker A: And so in action Theater, you're, like, exploring different movement worlds. And, like. And what is it like to be fully in this one frame of movement? And so you'll be with, like, a partner, for example. Like, one exercise would be like. Like, let's say we're together, and, like, you're moving like this. And, like, this is the way that you're moving. And then at some point, I have to come in, and it would be like, my. My lower body would be moving too. Like. But at, like, some point, I have to come in with, like, a completely different movement frame. Like, and so you're like this. And then at some point, you come in. You're like. [00:11:36] Speaker C: And then I would. [00:11:37] Speaker A: And then you would. You would just. You would just witness it. And you're, like, taking it in. Like, this is just one exercise, for example. But it's like. It's, like, really breaking down. I see how your body moves. And so then, like, with language. So then after that, you, like, add in sound. There's, like, sound stuff that happens. There's sound frames, and there's different awareness of sound. And so then when you're doing. I'm like, seeing your eyes. Like, you're like, what do you mean? [00:11:59] Speaker C: No, no. But yeah, because I'm like. Well, I assume it's more of, like, a grunt or something than more. [00:12:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:03] Speaker C: Like, [00:12:05] Speaker A: it would be like, Like. [00:12:07] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:12:07] Speaker A: But then that's fun. [00:12:09] Speaker B: Primal. [00:12:10] Speaker A: It's very primal, I would say. And then. And then when you get to language, you're like, okay, what is the sound of my language? And what is the physicality of my language? And how am I. Whoa. Physically breaking up the language? Are you. [00:12:23] Speaker C: Are you guys taking the time to pause and analyze everything? [00:12:26] Speaker A: Or it's a bunch of, like, stop and start exercises and then we, like, talk about it. [00:12:30] Speaker C: Like, okay, what did you do? Why did you do that? Okay, so then. Because I do want to hear about this short. A bit more in depth as well. And did you act in that? [00:12:39] Speaker A: I did. [00:12:40] Speaker C: And did you direct that? [00:12:41] Speaker A: I did. [00:12:42] Speaker C: And you wrote it. [00:12:42] Speaker A: Yes. [00:12:43] Speaker C: And you also helped edit it, but yes. With this action movement. [00:12:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:47] Speaker C: Class, classes, years of doing it. [00:12:51] Speaker B: It's a good question. How does that. [00:12:52] Speaker C: How does that. Yeah. How does that actually form? [00:12:54] Speaker B: Especially other actors are not trained in. [00:12:57] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. For me. For me, it, like, it just like, what. What are you doing? No, I know. What is that? It's. [00:13:04] Speaker B: I resonate with that a lot. I trained in viewpoints and Suzuki. [00:13:09] Speaker A: Yes. It's very similar to that. Like, it's a different version of that, but it's funny. [00:13:14] Speaker B: I think the only difference for me is, like, I learned to tie emotion to movement in a way that maybe it's different in action theater. [00:13:24] Speaker A: Yeah. That was the kind of interesting thing. Like, it's like, Ruth, she wasn't that interested in talking about emotion, and she's just like, if you're physically in your body. And also, she wasn't an actor, so she wasn't doing it to. Yeah, she was a dancer to do it for acting. But, like, I think you get to these states of mind. She talked about, like, mood. She would talk about, like, your internal weather. It would kind of abstract it a bit. Like, because I remember, like, for me in acting school, like, emotion. Talking about emotion. Like, I was like, someone who, like, I never, like, cried in class. Like, and it was this huge, like, insecurity I had. [00:14:01] Speaker B: Like, you never cried in class. [00:14:03] Speaker A: Like, you do these exercises, and people would be, like, crying, like, and then. And then the teacher would be like, it's not about crying. But then would be like, good job, like, to the people who are crying, like. And I just felt like I couldn't really Access my emotions for acting stuff. Like, it just, like, it would totally get me in my head. But then this awareness that I built through this practice, like, then made actually, like, finding emotions more easier, easy, because I wasn't, like, thinking about it in such a, like, direct way. [00:14:35] Speaker B: You have to, like, go back to the beginning of everything. You have to, like, break it down and start and start up. Like, you have to almost, like, break down yourself as a person and then build yourself back up. [00:14:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:46] Speaker B: Okay, so back to Luke's question. [00:14:48] Speaker A: Yes. And so, so basically, I'm not, like, in practice. In practice, like, it's. For me, it's like, it's built, like an awareness and, like, a vocabulary. But I'm not like, directing being, like, now we're doing action theater in the. In the directing. Like, yeah, it'. [00:15:02] Speaker C: I think the specific question is the intentionality behind. Because if you are, how to translate it? Because from what you're saying of, like, you take all this time to then build a foundation, to be able to then add vocabulary, like, actual words to it, all of a sudden, every word means something. And I guess an even splinter of that question is, like, how does that inform your writing? But let's just say on set for now, like, how is that intentionality informed production for you? [00:15:33] Speaker A: I think it's made. It's made it less intimidating for me, like, because as an actor, I have a theater background. And I remember being so intimidated by the idea of film acting. Because in theater, there's this thing, you have the theater, it's sacred. You go and there's build up. But in film, everyone's setting up and there's so much going on. And then it's like, okay, we need you to go now. And so it created a comfort in my body where I'm sort of like, okay, I actually know I can go whenever. And also how I go. Yes. [00:16:12] Speaker B: Huge. As an actor on set, it becomes so uncomfortable sometimes when you're waiting. And it's like, being an actor, you can get cold. [00:16:19] Speaker C: Totally. [00:16:20] Speaker A: And, like, it's a. It forces you to be really president. So, like, if you're cold, that's like the thing that's happening. Like, and so, like, that. That is like the ride. Like, I'm freezing. Like, like. But so that informs, like, the performance. [00:16:37] Speaker C: Yeah. Dude. [00:16:38] Speaker A: Asmr. Sorry, sorry. [00:16:40] Speaker C: Clip. [00:16:47] Speaker A: Am I. Oh, sorry. I can move. [00:16:49] Speaker C: No, I honestly want. I was, like, waiting to have a second to do that. That is way better. [00:16:53] Speaker A: Is it better? [00:16:54] Speaker C: Yeah. Let me just. [00:17:00] Speaker A: I'm not gonna get blinded. See this is what's happening. This is the moment. [00:17:03] Speaker B: Now you're so. [00:17:06] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. But it, it. It helps in. As a director, like, I think for me, I have, like, more of, like, a physical approach to how I give notes, like, which for some people might be nice and for other people might be, like, a bit more. [00:17:23] Speaker B: Yeah. What's an example of that? [00:17:25] Speaker A: Like, with. On this short, like, with the other actor, like, there was a moment in which I wanted him to be more internal with what he was saying, and I was giving that note and eventually I was just like, I actually don't want you to ever move your hands. Like, I just. And so all of a sudden, all that energy that's, like, coming out of your hands, like, you have to, like, channel it into your speaking. And so there's all. All that energy has to be here all of a sudden. [00:17:58] Speaker B: I love. I love a restriction. [00:18:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Those little tricks, like, I feel like I, like, get from actions. [00:18:04] Speaker C: It's a great note because if you said, like, I want to be more internal, I'm like, what? Yeah, you know, but like, being able to say. Because you're. That's the real. What a great director of, like, the note behind the note, even in that sense of like. [00:18:14] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, for sure. [00:18:15] Speaker C: You know, like, let's make this super simple. Just. I don't need to tell you, be more internal because I know it's going to confuse. Yeah, maybe. Or it's a difficult note, but, like, I'm so aware as the director that, like, I know what's going to happen. Exactly. [00:18:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:29] Speaker C: I don't need the. I don't have the need to be like, here's why. [00:18:33] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:18:35] Speaker C: Here's the one that's great. [00:18:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:37] Speaker C: And that's that intentionality. [00:18:38] Speaker A: Trying to. Because, like, some people, in some cases I found some people, they're like, why am I like, they do actually want to know why, like, some people that. Can you be more internal? Use the nicer note. Yeah, I'm like, no, but. But it's. It's like stuff like that. I get little things and then imagine. I'm like, shut up. Stop. Shut up. Just don't say any of the lines. Just say the lines. So it's like stuff like. It's stuff like that. I think it just, like, forces. It's like a practice in being present, and it's a practice in being embodied. And those are all things that, like, you want from actors. And then as a director, you want to be very present to what's happening in the room because you have to be aware of the actors, and you have to be aware of the crew, and you have to be aware of the time. [00:19:28] Speaker C: Like, were you in every scene? [00:19:30] Speaker A: Yeah, it was just one scene. It was like. [00:19:32] Speaker C: Okay, wait, can you give us the. Just so we have a bit more context on the actual short. [00:19:36] Speaker A: So the short. It's this short called Ryan. It's a part of this collection of 12 shorts that I've been working on for the past two years. [00:19:45] Speaker C: Did you talk about this at Wiley's show? [00:19:47] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, because that was. Wait, were you guys at the. [00:19:49] Speaker C: We were there. [00:19:50] Speaker B: The first one. [00:19:51] Speaker A: The first one. [00:19:51] Speaker C: We were at the first one. [00:19:52] Speaker A: The one where you. I mean, the Dollhouse. [00:19:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:55] Speaker A: Oh, my God, you're lying. That's so funny. [00:19:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:58] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So. Because then the next one was, like, a fundraiser for that. So, like, I've been. [00:20:03] Speaker C: That's what it was. [00:20:03] Speaker A: It's like 12 shorts. And I've been doing them all for, like, around, like, a thousand dollars, like, which is, like, no money for a short film. Like, they've been like, these very, like, kind of scrappy. [00:20:12] Speaker C: How long are they? Like, a few minutes each, or it's like 20 minutes. [00:20:16] Speaker A: Some are five, some are like 15. Like, it's kind of a range. And there was one that I was like, I know. I want it to be, like, my fancy short. Cause it's the most. They're also all kind of experimental. And then this one was the most kind of traditional, the most in kind of my voice that I'll, like, want to. It's, like, more similar to the voice of stuff I'll want to make features in. So I was like, I know. I want to kind of invest in making this one more kind of, like, traditionally nice. And, like, also, what does that mean for you? [00:20:44] Speaker C: Like, the look of it, the actual story. [00:20:46] Speaker A: The look of it, the story, too. I mean, it's the most realism. Like, the other shorts, it's like. I would describe them as, like, they're, like experimental comedies. Like, we are, like, sometimes they're, like, speeding up people's voices. We're pitching up people's voices. There's, like, animation that we add in. And this one is just, like, a scene where two people are talking. Like, and. And, like, I never, like, got, like, a colorist for the other ones or, like, things like that. What did you see? [00:21:20] Speaker C: Is this number 12 or. What number is this? [00:21:22] Speaker A: This one, it's the sixth one we've shot. And then, like, in the project, it's like. I think it's Number. It's like nine in the project or something. [00:21:32] Speaker B: It's almost like it. Performance art is not the right word. [00:21:36] Speaker A: No, no, I have thought of it as like a performance art. Like, it's piece. [00:21:40] Speaker B: Think of like 12 things, like, as an amalgamation of something. [00:21:44] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. Because I like, my. Basically, like, my approach to the shorts was I was like, I want to write, like, a collection of scenes. Like, it's an album, and then I want to roll it out like an album. So, like, you know, you get it, like, out of order. And, like, it's like the singles are out and all this stuff. And so this one is sort of like. I would say, like, they're all kind of. Have you guys ever listened to like, 100 gecks? [00:22:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:07] Speaker A: Like, they're like a big inspiration for, like. Yeah, like that. That, like, kind of hyper pop vibe. Like, I was like, what if that vibe was approached to, like, a film? Like, whoa. And then this short. It's like my acoustic song. Like, it's like a ballad. It's like just the guitar. [00:22:22] Speaker B: You are thinking of it as a novel. [00:22:24] Speaker C: Dude, that's dope. I've never. I've never heard of someone doing that. [00:22:27] Speaker A: Thank you. Yeah. [00:22:28] Speaker C: Aside from, like, a musician that's putting together a film. [00:22:33] Speaker B: So are you thinking of. I mean, it's like, you're gonna have enough there that it's like, the length of a film. [00:22:40] Speaker A: Yes. And so at some point, I'll, like, want all of them together and we're gonna have, like, an album release plan party, and so we'll watch all of them in order. [00:22:47] Speaker C: Steal that idea. [00:22:48] Speaker A: Yes, steal it. It's like, I've actually felt, like, insane because I've been working on it for, like, four, three years now. Like, of course. And so, like, I start to be like, I, like, start to get really caged. I'm like, so it's an album. [00:22:59] Speaker C: Like, is it short paired with a song or. It's not about that. [00:23:04] Speaker A: It's not about that. It's like. [00:23:05] Speaker C: No, the only musical thing is the structure. [00:23:08] Speaker A: It's just the structure. And, like, in my writing process, like, I was like, oh, I want one that, like, feels like a bedroom pop song. Like, there's one we, like, shot on an iPhone. Like. Yeah. And then, like, there's one that I'm like, this one's gonna be, like, sort of like a raunchy rap song because it's, like, gonna be very explicit and we're gonna talk about sex in it. And. And then this one, it's like, it's acoustic, and so it's more stripped back and, like, there's less hiding in it. [00:23:29] Speaker C: How did you go about playing showrunner? I guess, in the way of, like, is it kind of like a TV show where you're breaking story and, like, it's. Did you. Did you, you know, have the. The bible of the thing where it's like you have everything laid out in the world laid out, or it's like you do one at a time and kind of let yourself. [00:23:48] Speaker A: I kind of. I. I had, like, I'd originally written it. This is so convoluted. But I'd originally written it as a play. And so I, like, I had written. It was my third. I had written two plays, and I, like, put them up. And so I had the experience of writing, like, a full length play, and, like, I had kind of like a process of, like, I want to hear about that. Do an outline, like, and all this art. But I had done, like, an outline, and then I had found in the second play that I wrote that I really liked doing research and structuring it based off of research. And so I was, like, structuring about that with Wylie. Yeah, yeah. She was talking about how she likes doing research also, and she, like, the last one. I was like, okay, I want to do this album thing. And so I, like, picked, like, all my favorite books, breakup albums. And I was like, what's the structure of a breakup album? Like, what are the through lines? And I was like, what did you notice? There's, like, a lot of them have, like, an intro, right? And then a lot of them have, like, a moment where they're like, sort of like, pushing past, like, the hurt of the breakup, and they're like, fuck this. Like, I live my life. And then there's a moment where they're like, I'm so sad. And then a lot of them have, like, sort of a. Like a breakthrough moment. [00:25:08] Speaker B: I'm sure they, like, parallel the stages [00:25:09] Speaker A: of grief to some extent. Totally, totally. Totally. And so there's like, a moment. There's, like, denial and then there's bartering or bargaining. [00:25:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:20] Speaker A: And then. And then at the end, there's acceptance. And so. Yeah, and then I was thinking about, like, the. The, like, aesthetics of all of it. And so I started to, like, be like, okay, I know I want it to be 12. And I had this kind of year of my life that was very emotional. And I was having trouble writing, and I was only writing these one liners in my notes app. And so I was like, I'M gonna compile all of these from each month, all the one liners, and then can I come up with a scene from all of these lines from this one month? And so that was kind of like the structure of how I ended up writing it. And so it was originally gonna be a play, and then Covid happened, and then I moved to la and then I was sort of, like, kind of lost, like, creatively and like, career wise. And my roommate was like, you should make a short film. Like, I'll, like, help produce it. Like. And I had all these short scenes, and so I was like, maybe I'll do one of these as a short. And then I, like, committed, like, in 2022, I was like, I'm gonna do all of them. Like, and I love the idea of [00:26:30] Speaker B: just committing to something that. [00:26:31] Speaker A: Yes, it's like a five year plan. I'm like, very, like, stubborn in that way. [00:26:35] Speaker B: But, like, once you do it, you do it. I mean, if you're like the type of person that I feel like you are. [00:26:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:40] Speaker B: You're not gonna look back. [00:26:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, and it's nice, actually, because at first it felt kind of insane, like, because also, like, I wasn't like, submitting them to, like, festivals and stuff. And like, it was like, just sort of like putting out this one weird thing. But now it's been enough time that I feel like it's nice. Maybe new people will see the more recent short and then they'll be like, oh, this is a whole thing you've been doing. And so the time has actually elevated, I feel like, the quality of. [00:27:07] Speaker C: Absolutely. [00:27:07] Speaker A: The art man. [00:27:08] Speaker B: I'm sure. [00:27:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:27:09] Speaker B: You're getting better and better. [00:27:10] Speaker A: Yes. [00:27:11] Speaker C: I feel like we're, we've spoken about this a bunch, but, like, it took me so long and I'm still obviously so far from like, actually understanding, but just learning the importance of patience and like, not forcing stuff is good sometimes, but it's also like art when you give it time. Like, if you write a feature and you put it away for like a year or two years or five, who knows? But, like, you come back to it with, like, this fresh perspective and, like, you can bring so much to it and like, your subconscious, it's been marinating. It's like taking a frozen steak out of the freezer and like, putting it on the counter. Yeah. [00:27:48] Speaker B: Art is living and breathing always, regardless of how much you're doing to it. [00:27:52] Speaker C: Like, it. [00:27:52] Speaker B: It breathes because you made it in your living life parallel to it. [00:27:56] Speaker C: I. I have a question. I'm in prep with a short right now that I wrote like two and a half years ago. [00:28:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:03] Speaker C: And it was about a pretty timely thing in my life at that point. [00:28:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:07] Speaker C: And I read it now and I'm like, in the rewrite process of just like, oh, my God, like, this is first of all, like, it's cringy, whatever. And like, it just is, like, on the note, like, all these little things. But, like, my question to you of when you wrote all of this, you know, X amount of years ago, and now you're returning to it with you. I know you've shot a bunch, but, like, you're in the process of returning to these one liners and stuff like that are, like, how are you going about actually attacking that? And are you kind of seeing like a, you know, current version of you kind of battling with your past? [00:28:40] Speaker B: With your past? [00:28:41] Speaker A: But how do you stay true to the. [00:28:43] Speaker C: How do you stay true to that? [00:28:44] Speaker A: Yes. [00:28:44] Speaker C: That, like, spark of the OG line, I feel like. [00:28:48] Speaker B: Good question. [00:28:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Because. Well, it's a great question. And it's like, it's a very real thing for me because, like, some of these scripts, they, like, have lines about, like, being like, 22. Like, and I'm like, I'm not 22. I'm not 22. [00:28:58] Speaker C: Like, I'm not 22. [00:29:00] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm not. Let's all admit it. We're not 22. But. [00:29:04] Speaker B: But sorry, fans. [00:29:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:06] Speaker C: Sorry. [00:29:07] Speaker A: Am I young? Just joking. But I think if it is. Hello. I think there's another podcast. [00:29:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:21] Speaker A: Multiple podcasts here. I think if it's, like, truthful enough, it doesn't matter that it's like, age, like, because it hits on something, like, honest. And so for the most part, I. I wrote all of them at one point, and then I, like, edited them all together. I edited them all writing wise. But then as I go into production for each one, I like, re. Look at the script. [00:29:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:44] Speaker A: And I haven't cut too many lines. Like, it's like, mainly just being like, is this cringe because it's, like, embarrassingly intimate? Like, or is this, like, cringing me out? Because, like, I, like, know better than, like, what I said here now. Or like. Or like I'm referencing something that is, like, no longer referenceable. [00:30:05] Speaker C: Like, so how do you. [00:30:07] Speaker A: How do you differentiate just, like, a gut feeling? [00:30:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:10] Speaker A: Honestly, like, I. I'm like, very gut with, like, writing stuff. Like, I'm not super trained as, like, a writer, but I have, like, enough experience, I guess, as an actor too. [00:30:20] Speaker C: You could bring in that feeling of like, okay, am I just afraid? Like, am I just. Is this coming from a place of fear of like I don't want to show this version of my. Or like this. These feelings, you know. [00:30:29] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm always motivated by like be saying like something that like is like hard to say but true. And so like if it still feels like that, that's fine. But like if it feels like stupid like or like not truthful, that's just like. That's kind of it. [00:30:46] Speaker B: There is also something too, like the ability to like, it is a good thing to be able to separate yourself. [00:30:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:52] Speaker B: You know, being like this was. This is almost like a character that I'm writing. [00:30:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:56] Speaker B: Like, this is not myself. This is the 22 year old guy who on everybody writes stuff like in writers rooms that they're not. [00:31:05] Speaker C: That's true. It's like. [00:31:07] Speaker B: I guess that's like maybe you could. [00:31:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:31:10] Speaker C: But just as like pace evolves and like. [00:31:12] Speaker A: Yeah, your eyes. [00:31:13] Speaker C: A director evolves and changes and like [00:31:16] Speaker A: that's been the hardest thing. [00:31:17] Speaker C: But the beauty of like, you know, the YouTube generation of filmmakers, where it's like, it really is a platform that pushes you to like get stuff out. Like art is meant to be a lot of again, time is a wonderful thing, but like there is beauty. And like that's the Rick Rubin stuff of like a musician comes into a studio and they're feeling it at four in the morning and they get the song out the next day. [00:31:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:39] Speaker C: It's like that's. It's one take and like that is the song. And there's something really beautiful about that. We talked to Nicholas Snyder, the guy who did. He's a composer that did common side effects if you ever saw that show. But it's awesome. Adult Swim. But he's like artist like in Zawada, Jonathan Zawada, who does all of Flume's cover art and stuff. There are artists like that that are just so. They're not precious about their work. And it's like the beauty is like the fact that I have an idea and I'm gonna get it out. [00:32:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:11] Speaker C: And like that I'm not gonna think about it. [00:32:13] Speaker B: Very spiritual. Those two people are very spiritual people. [00:32:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:17] Speaker A: And that's like a very music perspective, which I think is part of why I wanted to write in that way. I think my advice maybe would be different if I was writing a kind of traditional narrative, but because these are a little bit more experimental scripts each time. Sometimes I'm like, my taste has kind of moved past this desire to be making these experimental shorts. I don't wanna do so, but I've committed to finishing them. But it's like an assignment now. Yeah, a little bit. And honoring that feeling. [00:32:46] Speaker B: Reflect that into the work. [00:32:48] Speaker A: Yeah. And refining it so there's not too much cleanup that has to happen. That maybe as much as with this short that we shot in August. Like, it was the most editing I had done. Like, I like. I, like, cut a section. I like, reordered something like, kind of editing that I don't normally. No reshoot. Get six months of weird. Like, it was shot for six months. [00:33:10] Speaker B: Rent out a soundstage. [00:33:11] Speaker C: Spent 40 million on a short. [00:33:12] Speaker A: Yeah. We're over budget. The studio's pissed. [00:33:14] Speaker C: That'd be nuts. To spend, like, 5 to 15 million on a short. [00:33:19] Speaker A: Like, people. It exists. [00:33:21] Speaker C: Yeah. It's like, it doesn't come or Badge. [00:33:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:25] Speaker B: Yeah. You gotta pay him a million. [00:33:27] Speaker A: It's tough. Cause even if you don't shelve something like, that is, like, the process. Like, you could be working on a script and it can be, like, in development for, like, years. Or, like, you're waiting for years to get it financed. And it's not that you're, like, putting it away, like, you're still working on it, but you have to, like, be okay with it. You have to be okay with, like. I hear a lot of people say, like, you have to be okay with working on this for, like, five years. Like, completely. [00:33:49] Speaker B: Especially in, like, the, you know, larger budget side of the business. [00:33:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:54] Speaker B: The shortest amount that I've ever seen a project happen is, like, three years. [00:33:58] Speaker C: I think that's very normal. Like, it's like, you need that amount of time. [00:34:01] Speaker B: And, like, that's the whole point of having multiple things going at once and being in various stages of different things. [00:34:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Did you. [00:34:07] Speaker C: I don't know if you saw that the WGA put out, like, the. The science script from. I'm blanking on her name, but the writer of Widow's. Is it Widow's Bay? [00:34:16] Speaker B: Is that Katie Dippold? [00:34:17] Speaker C: I think. Yeah. [00:34:18] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:34:19] Speaker C: But she. She, like. [00:34:21] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:34:22] Speaker B: It was a script that. Oh, I don't know. [00:34:24] Speaker C: But it was just simple. It was like, I. I've been working on this for 15 years. Like, it took 15 years to get made. And, like, she basically just like, keep with it. Like, do your thing. [00:34:33] Speaker B: That's so amazing. [00:34:35] Speaker C: But it's really. It's. And that's. I guess it's a great point of, like, that. That is this. It's like you're. That is kind of the. Like, you're meant to take that time and like. [00:34:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:45] Speaker C: I don't know. And keep the spark alive a little bit, I guess. [00:34:48] Speaker A: Yeah. I keep saying that. Like, it's been like my. My film school since I didn't go to film school because I, like, learn each one. Like, how do you make totally film? Like, and then that in itself, that, like, meta, like narrative of making it has in itself also been like a film school of like. Okay, like, can you commit to working on something for like, multiple years? Even past the point of it being this, like, vomiting up. [00:35:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:35:10] Speaker A: Like, piece of performance art. [00:35:12] Speaker B: Because it's like a character study on you. [00:35:15] Speaker A: Like, and like, how stubborn I am. [00:35:17] Speaker B: Like a long term sort of thing. [00:35:20] Speaker C: How is it directing yourself? [00:35:22] Speaker A: It's. It's tough. It's like a. It's like a new challenge every time. [00:35:26] Speaker C: Like, you watching Playback a bunch. [00:35:28] Speaker A: I'm not watching. I'm not. [00:35:29] Speaker C: Is your producer there? [00:35:31] Speaker A: My producer is there. I trust my producer a lot. I trust my. I trust my ZP a lot on this one. We did a lot of prep and then actually Wylie was the script supervisor and I, like, talked with her beforehand and I was like, just need you to let me know if it's okay. Like, I can kind of tell from the inside she's a great director, but she's a great director and she knows me as an actor. She knows me as a director. And so I like, kind of. I kind of had her as, like, emotional support. We also had an intimacy coordinator on set and. Cause there was, like, kissing in it. And so I felt like I had, like. I was very supported in terms of, like, eyes on it. Letting know, does anything look insane? Like, yeah. And so in the other shorts, I had, like, developed a process of directing myself and enjoying it. The first time I did it, I was like, I hated it. I had no fun. I'm like, the short sucks because there's that thing as a director where you, like, finish shooting something and you're like, oh, my God, this is horrible. And there's a grieving process. But I ended up really liking that first short I did. And so then I remember the second time I acted, I was like, I want to have fun because I know that, like, eventually, like, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And I did. But then this one was a lot more grounded and it was a lot more vulnerable, the performance. And so I felt insane. Like I was like floating above myself. [00:36:48] Speaker C: Wow. [00:36:50] Speaker A: And I did, like, have to, like. I just, like, kept having to, like, trust the people around me, and we had done a lot of prep, so that was really nice. And I had done it a few times. But it's always a weird thing. Like, I would love to be at a point where I'm. I have an acting career and a directing and writing career, and they're separate. But right now I feel like. I feel like I act in a way that elevates my writing and directing with the resources I have right now. And then also, I am not getting a ton of opportunities to act in the way that I'm giving myself opportunities as a writer. So right now, they're both kind of [00:37:30] Speaker B: writing the roles that you'll eventually write. Want. [00:37:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So it's. It's sort of like a manifestation thing. Like, but it's a stressful thing. It's. And it's. I. I imagine it's hard for the other actor, too, because, like, I'm giving the other actor notes, and then I'm giving myself notes in my head. [00:37:45] Speaker C: But kind of like, Seth Rogen said that about the studio. Oh, really? He was like. He feels so uncomfortable. It's like we're in a scene together. [00:37:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:53] Speaker C: I'm like, okay, so on the next one. Differently. Yeah, exactly. [00:37:57] Speaker A: Because I'm perfect. [00:37:58] Speaker C: Exactly. Right. [00:37:59] Speaker A: But meanwhile, in my, like, figure, he [00:38:02] Speaker C: has his buddy, like, one of the producers, come in and, like, give notes. He'll, like, run off to Village and [00:38:07] Speaker A: be like, tell him so he doesn't give the notes. [00:38:09] Speaker C: He doesn't like, that was awesome. I mean, you got to do what [00:38:12] Speaker B: you got to do to separate yourself. [00:38:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:14] Speaker B: Because, like, when you're acting with someone, you're on such, like, there's such, like, a tie of, like, level almost and directors, like, a different level. [00:38:21] Speaker A: There's a weird power dynamic. Like. [00:38:23] Speaker C: Right. [00:38:25] Speaker A: And so I would try to also be, like, honest about, Like, I'm struggling with this in the scene. Like, I wouldn't, like, give myself notes in front of him, but I would, like. I, like, will let the actor know. Like, here's sort of what I'm working with. And then in the past, sometimes also, like, with the more comedic ones that were like, this one, I wanted to have really long takes. So, like, I wasn't doing, like, a bunch of different takes of lines, but in. In the comedic ones, where we're cutting back and forth a lot, sometimes I'll, like, I'll do a line, and then I'll do, like. Like, a run of, like, six different versions of that. Like, I'm telling myself, do a different version. Do a different version. So they are seeing me direct to myself. But it looks like I'm having. It looks like I'm having a breakdown. Yeah, yeah. Do it again. [00:39:05] Speaker C: Do it again. [00:39:06] Speaker B: Okay. [00:39:06] Speaker A: Sorry. Yeah. One time, I was doing one. We were streaming one short, and Wiley was. Wiley's been a script supervisor a few times. [00:39:13] Speaker C: He definitely loves that. She's probably having the job. [00:39:15] Speaker A: She's great at it. She's sort of, like, with her. She's got her little laptop and. [00:39:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:18] Speaker B: The aesthetic of it. She loves it. [00:39:20] Speaker C: Is her suit on? [00:39:20] Speaker A: There was one time she was, like, shaking. [00:39:22] Speaker B: Espresso. [00:39:22] Speaker A: Can you get water? Like, can you, like, take a sip of water? Like, and so it's nice having her there to, like, to remind you to drink water. Yeah. [00:39:29] Speaker C: Like, nice. [00:39:32] Speaker A: Like this. [00:39:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:33] Speaker B: Luke doesn't like water. [00:39:34] Speaker A: I know. [00:39:34] Speaker C: I'll have a sip. [00:39:34] Speaker A: You're not. Do you actually not like water? [00:39:36] Speaker C: I love water. [00:39:37] Speaker A: I'm like, I'm addicted. I can't get enough. [00:39:41] Speaker C: I've been on low. [00:39:42] Speaker B: I feel like we should talk about your plays and your theater and. [00:39:45] Speaker C: Yeah. Can we. I would love to hear of the. You said you wrote two and you produced both. [00:39:51] Speaker A: Yes, but that was in college, so [00:39:53] Speaker C: there was just, like, a. [00:39:53] Speaker B: But you were in four plays last year. [00:39:55] Speaker A: Last year I did. I did four plays. I did, like, two Shakespeare plays with this, like, queer Shakespeare company called Red Ink Ensemble. [00:40:04] Speaker C: Who did you. What characters did you play? [00:40:05] Speaker A: Are you familiar with Shakespeare? [00:40:07] Speaker C: Let's see. [00:40:08] Speaker A: So we did. They did Romeo and Juliet. Heard of it? [00:40:11] Speaker C: I know that one. [00:40:12] Speaker A: Do you know Paris? I was like the. It's like the person who, like, they want Juliet to marry Paris. [00:40:19] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, I can see that. [00:40:21] Speaker A: I did that. And then. And then we did Midsummer Night's Dream. [00:40:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:24] Speaker A: And I played Helena. Yeah, she's, like, the one who, like, she's, like, in love with Demetrius, and he's like, I hate you. You're disgusting. And she's like, please. Like, it was really fun. It was like a dream role, like, I had been doing, because, like, as an actor, like, for theater auditions, you have to do monologues, and it's always, like, annoying having to find monologues. And I remember for a while, I was. I was doing a Helena monologue because I was like, no guy's gonna come in and do a Helena monologue. But I feel like this is, like, very in my voice. So for years, I had been doing this Helena monologue. And so when they were gonna do Midsummer. I was like, you're like, I am Helena. Like, and so that was really nice. And then I did a new play called Mommy at the Roy and Edna Disney CalArts Theater downtown. It was a part of this thing called the Now Festival. That was very fun. And then I did a new play called U haul Play that's, like, about two. It's like a lesbian couple breaking up in the first act, and the second act is, like, a gay couple moving in together. And it's like a relationship drama. But it's nice. I did, like, two very classical plays and then two, like, very contemporary plays. [00:41:39] Speaker C: Cool. [00:41:40] Speaker A: Which is nice because I went to school for theater, and I was, like, doing, like, a new play every semester. And then there was this, like, dry period where, like, I was, like, not doing any plays and all this stuff. [00:41:49] Speaker B: Are you. [00:41:50] Speaker C: Are you repped? [00:41:52] Speaker A: I have, like, a commercial agent, but I'm not repped. [00:41:54] Speaker C: For acting. [00:41:55] Speaker A: For acting? Yeah. Yeah. So. But I don't have, like, a. These things. Actually. They came from all. From word of mouth. Yeah, it was like the. The red ink people. They. I knew them from college. I knew what? Nicole. Nicole and Lucia. They're a couple. And one of them went to Emerson, and she. They had had someone drop out and so to play Paris. And so then they're like, do you [00:42:20] Speaker B: want to do this? [00:42:20] Speaker A: And I was like, yes. And then because of that, then I ended up doing the next play. [00:42:25] Speaker C: Are you, like. I don't know if you've had general meetings, but, like, with, like, reps. Yeah. But when you're talking to the industry side, do you pitch yourself as a filmmaker, as a playwright, as an actor? [00:42:38] Speaker A: I pitch myself just as an actor. Well, because I haven't had, like, really, Like, I haven't had meetings with, like, manager, like, overall managers. Like, it's only been, like, with agents for District acting. So I only really talk about my acting work in those meetings. Like, but I would. I would like to be in a place where, like, I have representation that, like, understands, like, all the sides of myself. But I feel like they're kind of different hustles at this particular stage. Like, for me, like, for. For, like, filmmaking, it's like, you kind of just have to be making your own stuff. Yeah. Right now is how I feel like, for the kind of filmmaker that I am, like, and the kind of writer I am, like. And then as an actor, like, I'm like, I'm sorry. [00:43:21] Speaker C: It's very. Drama comedy. It sounds like. [00:43:23] Speaker A: Yeah. A combination of drama, comedy. Yeah. [00:43:26] Speaker B: Dramedy. [00:43:27] Speaker A: Dramedy. [00:43:27] Speaker C: There you go. [00:43:28] Speaker A: The shorts have been mainly very comedic, and then this last one was, like, a bit more dramatic. [00:43:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Is there. Is there, like, a show or movie that you. You've seen recently that you would have, like, loved to be in or play [00:43:38] Speaker C: or not recently, Maybe just. [00:43:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, what's up? [00:43:40] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. That's such a good question. In terms of acting, have you guys ever seen Mike Lee's movies? Like, which one have you seen Happy Go Lucky? But do you know about, like, Mike Lee's process? Like, what? [00:43:54] Speaker C: Explain. [00:43:55] Speaker A: So he, like, gets all these actors, and they rehearse for, like, two months, and they're, like, just improvising for, like, two months, like, developing the backstory. And then eventually, he has an idea of, like, what the story is gonna be. And this is, like, my general understanding of it. And then he, like, eventually. Then once you're shooting the film, there is, like, a full script and everything, but you've been like, living in these characters for so long, and they're very, like, slice of life, but they are very big characters at the same time or, like, [00:44:29] Speaker C: so that. [00:44:30] Speaker A: Yeah, like, kind of, like, things that I have, like, very, like, actor forward, processes driven. Yeah. [00:44:35] Speaker B: Cool. [00:44:36] Speaker A: I'm very into process. [00:44:37] Speaker C: I love that. [00:44:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:38] Speaker C: Yeah, man. Go to Sundance. Have fun. Yeah. [00:44:41] Speaker A: You know, honestly, like, hello. [00:44:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:43] Speaker C: Now that I can definitely see that. I definitely get that vibe for you. For sure. You get that, like, Sundance filmmaker vibe. Yeah. Which is awesome. [00:44:51] Speaker A: Thank you. Yeah. [00:44:53] Speaker C: Cool, man. I mean, yeah, I would love to, like, I guess the. The. The curiosity of, like, the industry side and, like. [00:45:03] Speaker A: Yes. [00:45:04] Speaker C: If that is something that you're thinking about. [00:45:05] Speaker A: Yes. [00:45:06] Speaker C: Or it's not. Like, if your friends are reps. [00:45:08] Speaker A: It totally is. Yeah, I have some friends who are reps, like, but I don't have a ton of, like, writer and director friends who are wrapped. I have a bunch of actor friends who are wrapped. And so that's why, like, I, like, think of it differently. [00:45:18] Speaker C: Is it top of mind for you, though? Is it, like, it is a little bit like this, or it's like, you know, I have so much time. I'm doing my thing. [00:45:25] Speaker A: I'm a bit more stressed about it than I was before. Like. Like, I think when I first moved out to la, it was hard because I had a hard time sitting down with, like, an industry person and being, like, putting myself into, like, a box and pitching myself. It's hard, right? It's very hard. Like. [00:45:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:40] Speaker A: And so it actually took me, like, four Four or five years of being out here to, like, be like, I'm ready to have those meetings again. And then I. I had them, and then I got repped just for, like, a commercial agent. Like, but because with acting, it's very much like, I'm like, I'm for hire. I know how to, like, do the job of an actor. Like, I have a perspective as an actor, but I also know how to, like, just do the job. [00:46:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:03] Speaker A: Meanwhile, with, like, writing and directing, like, I'm like, I kind of want to do things my way, and that is, like, I think, a longer process before you're, like, wrecked and have those kinds of things. Yeah. So you got to make your stuff. Yes, you have to make your stuff. And so then with this short that I just shot my fancy one, like, I'm like, I would like to, like, submit it to festivals and, like, sort of be meeting people in the context of, like, you just saw my film. [00:46:29] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:46:30] Speaker B: The best thing to do, have your work speak for you. [00:46:32] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm, like, not very good at, like, networking, like, over coffee, being like, here's me, like, all this stuff, but I'm like, yes, I will come to 5050 to see all the horror shorts. [00:46:41] Speaker B: This. [00:46:42] Speaker C: You don't like horror? [00:46:43] Speaker A: No, I do. I love horror, actually. I was like, yeah, I had a huge horror phase in middle school. Like, I was like, what? I did. I had, like, a Nightmare on Elm Street Tumblr. Like, I was like, I, like, went through a phase. [00:46:55] Speaker C: But you, like, wear that all year. [00:46:59] Speaker A: Yes, I was like, all year. Like, it was not just spooky season. It was like, all year. Spooky year. [00:47:05] Speaker C: Two years. [00:47:05] Speaker A: Spooky two years. [00:47:06] Speaker C: Middle school was a couple of years. [00:47:08] Speaker A: Three. [00:47:08] Speaker C: Three. So spooky. Spooky three years. [00:47:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And then, I mean, I still like horror, but, like, I was. I'm not like. But I'm not like, I'm not like, horror. Like, are you like. Yeah. [00:47:20] Speaker C: Are you with the. The craze of horror right now? Like, are you like, oh, man, I gotta make a horror short. Yeah. [00:47:26] Speaker A: Like, this sort of genre. No, I don't really. I don't really think that way. Like, I don't have, like, the business mind as a writer. That's, like, why? Like, I'm sort of, like, with the writing thing. I'm like, sort of like, we'll ride that wave. [00:47:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:47:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Cause I don't. I don't really know what horror story I have to tell right now. So, like, I don't want to just, like, write It. [00:47:42] Speaker C: Because everyone else is doing it. [00:47:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Are you guys thinking of doing something horror? [00:47:47] Speaker C: I mean, I love. I consume horror and comedy because of the festival. We have a comedy festival made a horror festival in October. [00:47:53] Speaker A: Oh, nice. [00:47:55] Speaker C: I'm watching, like, a thousand shorts a year at this point that are just comedy and horror, and so naturally, what I output. But also before that, like, the first short I ever made was horror, and I've been making sketch stuff my whole life. [00:48:08] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, and so it's so funny. Like, the connection between those two things. [00:48:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:13] Speaker B: Like. [00:48:13] Speaker A: And, like, the directors who are big. Right. Have, like, crazy. [00:48:17] Speaker C: Gregor is. [00:48:18] Speaker A: Yes. [00:48:19] Speaker C: I know. Curry and stuff. But Zach, like, I. Zach Kreger, is unbelievable. [00:48:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:24] Speaker C: I don't know if you saw that. [00:48:25] Speaker A: The Resident Evil, but I haven't seen it, actually. But I love. I did love Weapons. [00:48:33] Speaker B: Yeah. I get scared. Horror's never been, like, my. I've been very comic forward. [00:48:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:38] Speaker B: And then I feel like, through theater, I've been drama and all that, but, like, horror has not been my thing. But I think through the festival, I've learned how to consume. [00:48:48] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:48:48] Speaker B: Which I think is important. [00:48:49] Speaker C: That should be a title of the podcast. [00:48:51] Speaker A: How to Consume Horror. [00:48:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:54] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:48:54] Speaker A: Me consuming horror. [00:48:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:56] Speaker B: Eating it. [00:48:57] Speaker C: That was good. No, he knows. Action. [00:48:58] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Gesture. Yeah. [00:49:01] Speaker C: You're gonna chew on that for a while. [00:49:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Maybe, like, that was action theater, but it's nice. I like when I saw Weapons. [00:49:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:11] Speaker A: That was, like, the most. I felt connected to, like, me loving horror as a kid. [00:49:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:16] Speaker A: Because, like, there's been this, like, phase of, like, elevated horror. Like, horror. Like, talking about grief. [00:49:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:22] Speaker A: And, like, horror, like, talking about something specific. And I. I really like that. And I. But I got to, like, a point where I was, like, watching horror movies, and I was sort of like, what's this about? Like, but then at the end of Weapons, like, that ending, I was like, I don't actually care what this is about. This is, like, iconic. Like, there's, like, an iconic, like, imagery. And, like, I'm gonna be thinking about this, like, in a way where, like, I don't know why I'm thinking about it. Yeah, it's. It's. [00:49:44] Speaker C: And I. I think comedy, and I think comedy allows you to do that, period. But there were the time when I was like, comedy's dead. Comedy's dead. Which people still say. But like, a few years back when, like, we were in school and stuff, [00:49:56] Speaker B: and, like, I remember there was nothing, I think. [00:49:59] Speaker C: But there was also nothing. [00:50:00] Speaker B: I think it was also because the theatrical business itself was struggling. [00:50:04] Speaker A: That's true. [00:50:04] Speaker C: That's true. There is not much coming. [00:50:06] Speaker B: Nobody's gonna make comedy now that theaters are doing better. I think people are. [00:50:10] Speaker C: Yeah. More stuff's coming. [00:50:10] Speaker B: Negative stuff in general about theatrical. [00:50:13] Speaker C: All I was getting at, though, was the. The fact that, like, in that time, I would always respond to that and be like, comedy has never been bigger. Like, open your eyes. Like, everything go on TikTok. Yeah, but I just mean every show, like, everything. [00:50:26] Speaker A: It's. [00:50:27] Speaker C: Whether it's a drama comedy, it's horror comedy. Like, there's always. It might not be stepbrothers coming out, but like. But comedy, everything is funny. [00:50:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:35] Speaker C: You know, like, I don't know, but it's definitely been a really fun time. And like, the stuff that's coming out is awesome. Like, I'm really excited for what's the comment. And theatrical too. Like, to be able to go to a theater and let's pack and stuff. It's like. [00:50:50] Speaker A: Yeah, that is something I love. [00:50:52] Speaker C: Really? [00:50:53] Speaker A: I'm like, is this just la? Like, I, like, love going and I'm like, it's like. It's like I have trouble getting a ticket. [00:50:59] Speaker B: No, I. I think that it is everywhere. I mean. [00:51:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:02] Speaker B: Like, numbers wise, I think it's everywhere. [00:51:04] Speaker C: Yeah. But go see Resident Evil. [00:51:07] Speaker A: Yeah, okay. I will. [00:51:08] Speaker C: On. [00:51:09] Speaker B: I'll see it too. [00:51:09] Speaker C: You should. [00:51:10] Speaker B: It's really fun. [00:51:10] Speaker C: You should. [00:51:11] Speaker B: It's appropriate for me. [00:51:12] Speaker C: You'll. Yeah. It's not that scary. It's. It really is. [00:51:15] Speaker B: Okay. [00:51:16] Speaker A: I. I like scary. I can. I can. Yeah, you'll be totally fine if you saw the Dollhouse. [00:51:19] Speaker C: Yeah. No, dude, that was unreal. [00:51:21] Speaker A: Scary. [00:51:22] Speaker B: Well, yeah. Luke was freaking out after. [00:51:23] Speaker C: Yeah. I was like, this has to be submitted to the festival. I think that was the one. [00:51:28] Speaker B: I agree. [00:51:29] Speaker A: That's so funny. [00:51:30] Speaker C: Yeah. It'll be interesting to hear what you. What you think. Do you still consume horror like that or. It's just not. [00:51:35] Speaker A: Not. Not like. [00:51:36] Speaker C: So what. What do you. Are you consuming now? [00:51:38] Speaker B: I consume. [00:51:40] Speaker A: I'm like more into kind of like relationship driven stuff. [00:51:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:42] Speaker A: Like, like, but yeah, like what. [00:51:45] Speaker C: What is the relationship Griffin stuff you're watching? [00:51:48] Speaker A: I just saw the new Joe Swanberg movie. Did you guys see it? [00:51:50] Speaker C: I haven't. [00:51:51] Speaker A: I really like that. [00:51:52] Speaker C: Oh, who is in that? [00:51:53] Speaker A: The Dakota Fanning. [00:51:54] Speaker C: Dakota. Who is. [00:51:55] Speaker A: And Jake Johnson. [00:51:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:57] Speaker A: Debbie Ryan. [00:51:58] Speaker C: No, it was Jay. It was Jay. [00:52:01] Speaker A: I'm trying to think what else? Did you like it? I did. I did like it. I hadn't seen the trailer or Anything. I, like, didn't think anything, but I, like, loved sentimental value. Like, that was like. That's, like, the kind of thing that, like, I really love. [00:52:16] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:52:16] Speaker A: Right now. Like, but I don't, like, sometimes I, like, get, like, embarrassed, like, talking about, like, what I like, because, like, it's like, there's like, sort of like an. It's like, not like I'm like, oh, I like, sort of like this, like, art house. [00:52:27] Speaker B: No, you're watching reality tv. [00:52:30] Speaker A: I love it all. Like, I'm like a very big. I. I think also I consume a lot of pop culture. Like, I consume, like, a lot of, like, music pop culture and like, celebrity pop culture. And so I think, like, I get all of that sort of stuff out on my phone. And so then, like, when I'm watching movies, I'm, like, looking for something a little bit different, but, like, it's an interesting way to. [00:52:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:50] Speaker A: I just rewatched the House Bunny like, twice. Have you seen a movie? Like, I, like, grew up, like, loving those movies. Like, epic movies, scary movie. Like, I was like, very, like, I like, kind of all those things. But I think as I've gotten older, it's like, a bit more exciting for me. Like, the kind of relationship driven stuff. But mainly because it, like, think I'm always thinking about, like, acting and writing. [00:53:11] Speaker B: Totally. [00:53:12] Speaker A: And right from like, a relationship processing kind of thing. Like. And so that's like, the thing that's more exciting. [00:53:17] Speaker C: We've spoken a bunch about relationships, too, this summer. Just like, how. How to relate, like, people's perspectives on relationships and like, you know, you know, the balance. But also, like, folks who are very relationship driven in their writing. It's like, when you're in relationships, are you like. Oh, say that again. [00:53:36] Speaker A: Well, like, do you mean romantic relationships? [00:53:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:38] Speaker A: No, I mean, like, I mean, like, every relation. Yeah. Plus Hanukkah's anymore. So. Yeah. Like, friendships, family, relationships. Like, grounded, grounded. Yeah. [00:53:47] Speaker C: Sundance. [00:53:49] Speaker A: Sundance. [00:53:50] Speaker C: I feel like every movie's a relationship, though. [00:53:51] Speaker A: Yeah, it's true, it's true. But, like, I think, like, when the plot is about, like, how does the relationship. Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm thinking about that. That a lot. Like, less so. I'm not thinking about it that much with, like. Well, I'm not in a relationship, so I'm not thinking about it that much. But, like, I do think about it a lot in, like, my friendships and my family relationships. Sometimes I, like, feel, like, nervous about it. Sometimes I'm like, oh, God. Like, I. My roommate recently, he was like, I Wonder if this will ever come out in one of your. One of your things. And then I was like, what do you mean, like? And he's like, you know. Cause sometimes you put things in there. And I go, what do you like? Like, I think I'm pretty. Like, I like, try and not like, write like directly what is happening in my life. Like, I like sort of. I like to fictionalize things. I like to abstract them and all that stuff. But he was sort of like, yeah, like, I see what you're doing. And I was like, what do you mean? So I do think about it. Yeah. Like in. In terms of like, what's going on. I'm always writing in my phone, like in my notes app. Do you. [00:54:50] Speaker C: Is he like a collaborator with you? And in the process of prep and [00:54:54] Speaker A: everything or more so like on the technical stuff, like, like when he sees, like the script. [00:54:59] Speaker C: How'd you guys meet? Give us the whole roommates. [00:55:01] Speaker A: Roommates. Freshman year of college for, like, so many years. Yeah. [00:55:05] Speaker C: Was that a random roommate or was [00:55:06] Speaker A: that a little bit. I had. I had picked. I had picked a roommate who I met through, like, at the time. Like, you would meet your roommates on like a Facebook group. [00:55:13] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:55:14] Speaker A: And I'm like, at the time, at the time, at the time. And then that roommate who had picked had found two other people. And then we got randomly assigned two other people. So we're a six person suite. Whoa. And then he was one of my suite mates. And then we were like five people sophomore year, four people junior year, and then three people out here in la. And now it's just the two of [00:55:38] Speaker C: us slowly getting rid of. [00:55:39] Speaker A: Slowly getting. It's like an elimination. Yeah, it's like a reality show. [00:55:43] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Cameras everywhere. [00:55:45] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. But we actually never, like, no food. [00:55:47] Speaker C: Really. [00:55:47] Speaker A: Yeah, no food. [00:55:48] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:55:49] Speaker A: Like. Like Survivor. [00:55:50] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. [00:55:53] Speaker A: They don't feed them in Survivor. They have to hunt. [00:55:55] Speaker C: Yeah, they have to hunt. [00:55:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:55:58] Speaker C: For people. That's interesting. [00:55:59] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, but you write that down. Yeah, but we actually never had, like a working relationship in college. He, like, did the lights for one of my plays. [00:56:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:09] Speaker A: But it was like, I kind of like that. [00:56:10] Speaker B: I had a college roommate for a long time. We would obviously, like. I would be writing something, show them stuff, bounce ideas off each other. But we only started working together officially after really. [00:56:21] Speaker A: It's nice because it, like, you're like fully formed people, I think. Nice too. [00:56:26] Speaker C: That's true. [00:56:27] Speaker A: And you have more like real life to grow. [00:56:29] Speaker C: And then you come back. [00:56:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, because also at the time he had like started working as like a production coordinator. So he had like real like boots on the ground, like, experience of like, here's like what a budget looks like and like, here's what. Contacting vendors. Yeah. [00:56:46] Speaker B: Areas of. Not expertise in. [00:56:48] Speaker A: With the other person's expertise. Yeah. So it's nice. And then I worked with another producer on this last short, Grace Madigan. She, like, is someone who I knew from college. [00:56:56] Speaker C: That sounds familiar. [00:56:58] Speaker A: She might have been in the last home movie show. [00:57:03] Speaker B: Definitely a Wiley. [00:57:04] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, she's friends with Wiley and we went to college together and we didn't talk for like she went to college and then she dropped out and transferred and we didn't talk for years. And then we like reconnected after college and then started working. She was a big part of the production process for this last short too. So it's kind of nice having a producer. [00:57:26] Speaker C: Yeah. Important. [00:57:28] Speaker A: But then coming to it like later on and being like, yeah, like let's. Do we want to work on this? Like, what do we logistically, what is this actually going to be? [00:57:36] Speaker C: How do we actually do this? [00:57:37] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, yeah. [00:57:39] Speaker B: Well, I want to be wary of time. [00:57:40] Speaker A: Yes. [00:57:41] Speaker B: And we do, we do. Ask one final question to all of our guests. What is the dream? And it's intentionally vague and you can take your time with it, but what is the dream? [00:57:49] Speaker A: Santa McLean. The dream, honestly. Okay, so there's two answers to this. Like, one of them is like very logistical, logistical, logistic. Yeah, one of them is very logistic. [00:58:03] Speaker B: All of the above. [00:58:04] Speaker A: The dream would be to like, financially, like just be making a living from like my art. If that's like a combination from like teaching, writing, directing, acting, for that to be like my full time job in like a very like, stable way. And then like the more like kind of like spiritual answer to that is like, I would love to be making art that feels like it is like expressing something that maybe hasn't been expressed both for myself and for other people. I create art from a place of I do it for me. But then I also like the idea of like, it like doing some form of like, good, like, and like having someone like that feeling I get when I watch a movie and I'm like, oh my God. Like that, like, I like, I'm like seeing like my experience. Like I've never seen it done in that way. In that way. Like, I want to give that feeling to other people. [00:59:24] Speaker B: Beautiful. [00:59:24] Speaker A: And have that be my income source. Yeah, yeah. So. And then teaching with action theater I know. Like, I. Like, we've been everywhere. I would really like to help, like, action theaters in kind of this interesting place right now where Ruth, the woman who invented it, she died last year. And it was in a very specific place because she was sort of like the keeper of it. And there's all these teachers around the world who are certified in teaching it, and we're, like, looking to, like, kind of expand it and have it be more of, like, a thing that people know, like the way people know about viewpoints or the way people know about, like, contact improv. So I would like to continue to be teaching action theater. Like, even if I was like a full time actor and, like, I made, like a full living from acting or a full living from directing, like, I would still like for action theater and teaching it to be, like, a big part of my life. [01:00:13] Speaker C: I love that, man. [01:00:14] Speaker A: So that's a big part of it. [01:00:15] Speaker B: Beautiful. [01:00:16] Speaker C: Well, thanks for coming on the pod. [01:00:18] Speaker A: Thank you for having me on. I hope I made sense. [01:00:20] Speaker B: Oh, my God. It was like, we could do another episode tomorrow and it would be totally different and more stuff. More awesome stuff. So thank you, man. [01:00:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:00:28] Speaker A: Thank you for having me on. Thank you for the water. [01:00:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:00:32] Speaker B: More where that came from. [01:00:33] Speaker C: This shore fun with the album release party. [01:00:36] Speaker A: Yes. Stealing that idea. Yes. No, literally making a thing 100% stealing. And I'm excited for 50 50. Hey, October. [01:00:42] Speaker C: October 18th. October 18th. Tickets available now. [01:00:47] Speaker A: Signing off. [01:00:55] Speaker C: Did you learn something? I'm like your mom. Did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging. Make sure you follow us at the 5050fest on Instagram and give us five stars because. Why not? Why not subscribe? Why not? You know why not? Okay, bye.