HOW TO: Be Scrappy, and Rapidly Become a Producer (w/ Aisling Lynch)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: So I think when I very first started, like, obviously I was kind of just learning the ropes of his Slade and his assistant stuff, which again, was not like super crazy busy or overwhelming or anything like that. And then very quickly he was like, okay, call up the agents and the managers and find the next great scripts, find material. [00:00:24] Speaker B: He was just like, Sayer, creative exec, right? [00:00:26] Speaker A: Yes. [00:00:26] Speaker B: Didn't he tell you to do that? [00:00:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. He was just like, like, call people, [00:00:30] Speaker B: tell them whatever you need to say. Just like. [00:00:32] Speaker A: He was like, I don't care who you call. He was like, I don't care who you call. Which is obviously very different than, I think, a lot of other people's early jobs. And so, yeah, I would do that. [00:00:44] Speaker C: He's just like, just make like, say you're creative. Exact. But can't people just like look up your name or something? [00:00:50] Speaker A: I mean, you can, but like, like, they won't. [00:00:53] Speaker B: People don't care. [00:00:56] Speaker C: I'm Luke Steinfeld. [00:00:57] Speaker B: And I'm Wyatt Sarkisian. [00:00:58] Speaker C: We made the 5050 podcast to support you on your filmmaking journey. [00:01:02] Speaker B: 50% business, 50% creative. [00:01:04] Speaker C: Every Tuesday, a new how to. [00:01:06] Speaker B: This week, Aisling lynch joined us in the studio. I knew Aisling from sitting across from her for about a year at my old place of work, Fourth Wall Management. During that time, I watched her get four plus drinks a week, read all the time, and brilliantly collaborate with her boss, Russell Hollander. Fast forward a couple years. She is a full fledged producer with a capital P. We should mention that Aisling will be attending our 5050 Horror Festival on October 18th. Tickets are open now. Link in the episode description and our Instagram bio at the 5050 Fest. At the 5050 Fest on Instagram. Enjoy the episode. [00:01:53] Speaker A: My boyfriend bought these for me. [00:01:55] Speaker B: They feel like very you. [00:01:57] Speaker A: I know. I. I thought it was really sweet thinking of him like going to the mall and looking at strawberry shoes and being like, these are the ones. [00:02:04] Speaker C: Right? You know where he, where he got those? [00:02:06] Speaker A: They're Betsy Johnson shoes. I don't. Maybe he got them at like [00:02:10] Speaker B: these. These are Betsy Johnson, right? [00:02:12] Speaker C: These are. These are Betsy Johnson. [00:02:13] Speaker A: Oh, amazing. Yeah, we're matching. [00:02:15] Speaker B: My shorts are also. They're not, but they, they look. People always. [00:02:18] Speaker A: They look like Betsy Johnson. [00:02:19] Speaker C: They say that. They do say that. [00:02:21] Speaker B: Betsy Johnson. [00:02:22] Speaker C: So you guys worked together? [00:02:23] Speaker A: We did. [00:02:24] Speaker B: Back in the day, in the past. [00:02:25] Speaker A: Yeah, we did, yeah. [00:02:27] Speaker C: Wow. [00:02:27] Speaker A: And if I want to evoke Wyatt's former boss, John Huddle, I'd go, buddy, buddy. [00:02:34] Speaker B: You know about that. I've. I'VE told Luke about. [00:02:37] Speaker C: I've heard the buddy. [00:02:39] Speaker B: We were just reminiscing over coffee orders. Various coffee orders. When you work with someone for years. [00:02:47] Speaker A: Or you don't. Or you don't in this case. [00:02:49] Speaker C: Right. [00:02:50] Speaker A: Because you didn't. [00:02:51] Speaker B: Right. [00:02:51] Speaker A: Yes. But I remember, like, I think I was around. I think you were still at Fourth Wall when you started the podcast. [00:02:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:59] Speaker A: And I thought I would have to win an Oscar before you invited me to. [00:03:03] Speaker B: Well, you practice. You practically have, is the thing. [00:03:07] Speaker A: Yes. [00:03:09] Speaker C: Really? [00:03:09] Speaker A: Any day now. [00:03:10] Speaker B: I mean, you've. [00:03:10] Speaker A: In spirit, I feel like you're very [00:03:12] Speaker B: impressive and you've shot up in the ranks, like, literally. And, like, you know, in my mind, I have. Yeah, absolutely. What was your. Where did you come from before? [00:03:26] Speaker A: Just, like. [00:03:27] Speaker B: Like the boy. Like, just. [00:03:28] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it was extremely, like, random. And I was talking. I got lunch with the producer last week who said something I thought was smart, which is. He was like. He's like. When I sit our interns down, the first thing I tell them is, everything in this business is extremely fucking random. [00:03:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:46] Speaker A: And, like, you think one thing's gonna happen. Never happens. Like, something you find, something you love never gets made. And then some, like, random opportunity comes up and then you just go with it. [00:03:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:56] Speaker A: That was kind of my experience. I always knew I wanted to work in entertainment, and I watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer growing up and, like, was obsessed with it. [00:04:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:09] Speaker A: And so my mind was always focused on that. But then I went to, like, a small liberal arts college on the East Coast. [00:04:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:17] Speaker A: And studied film. But my professors were, like, honest and were like, we have no idea how, like, what happens in Hollywood, how you get a job. [00:04:24] Speaker B: Like, it was very much just, like, learning about even movies. [00:04:28] Speaker A: Like, not enough to say, like, oh, like, yeah, exactly. Or, like, yeah, make, like, no budget docs or, you know, like, total. [00:04:37] Speaker B: It's like a very liberal arts school. [00:04:38] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And so. But, like, not even enough to say, like, go work at an agency. And so I had no idea what I was gonna do, but I had, like, interned. I was an intern at the Television Academy foundation, which is how I met Karen Zippor. [00:04:54] Speaker B: Previous podcast and Everywhere all at Once. [00:04:56] Speaker C: The worm. [00:04:57] Speaker B: Yes, the worm. [00:04:58] Speaker A: The worm lady herself. [00:04:59] Speaker C: Wow. [00:05:00] Speaker A: The worm. [00:05:01] Speaker C: That's her short. That's. That's the short. [00:05:04] Speaker A: The worm lady herself. [00:05:05] Speaker C: That's not what she's called. [00:05:05] Speaker A: That's her contact information in my phone. [00:05:08] Speaker C: It's a fantastic short. She's awesome. [00:05:10] Speaker A: But, yeah. And I think someone had just. We had these. It was Covid time so, like, normally it was a summer internship and you would come to LA, but you couldn't go to LA because it was 2021. But we had these, like, weekly panels outside of just the regular internships with, like, speakers. And what every single person said was like, I moved to LA in my car with, like, $300 to my name, and I got a job. And, like, you have to be in LA to get a job in la. [00:05:39] Speaker B: You have to be in LA and desperate in order to get there, right? [00:05:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:42] Speaker B: Like, yeah. Have less than $300. That's. You have to just like. [00:05:46] Speaker C: It's like Jacob Elordi's story of, like, his. He's like, I lived out of my car. [00:05:50] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:05:51] Speaker C: And like, it was like the last audition and I had my plane flight home to Australia, where he's from. And it's like, right. But he was like. And I. You know, my agent at the time called me. He's like, ah, you got. It was like a casting agent was like, yeah, you auditioned for this other thing. But, like, this. There's a show and this cool showrunner behind it. Like, I. I really think you have this. And he was like, huh? [00:06:14] Speaker A: Right. [00:06:14] Speaker C: And he showed up and it was Euphoria, you know? [00:06:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:17] Speaker C: And that was. [00:06:18] Speaker B: That crazy. [00:06:20] Speaker C: Yeah. He, like, pushed his flight. [00:06:21] Speaker B: Didn't you work on the Idol? [00:06:23] Speaker A: Yes. And actually the end of season two of Euphoria, so similar. This is. So basically, this is what happened when I moved to la. I. So I'd done that internship. It was like a summer program right after I graduated college. [00:06:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:39] Speaker A: Didn't have anything full time lined up, but everyone was saying, just move to la. I moved to la. Had, like, an apartment in Glendale where I had a roommate, but she hadn't moved in yet. And I remember, like, the first two weeks, I knew. No, Like, I had no friends in the city. I didn't know anyone. I'm from Arizona, so it's not like, that far. [00:06:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:59] Speaker A: But I had no idea what I was doing. [00:07:01] Speaker B: If you're a little car. [00:07:02] Speaker A: And my little Smart Car. My little car. [00:07:04] Speaker B: You still have your Smart Car? [00:07:05] Speaker A: Yeah, it's on the street. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:06] Speaker C: Perfect. [00:07:07] Speaker B: Really, really small. [00:07:08] Speaker A: Leonardo. [00:07:09] Speaker C: That's unreal. [00:07:10] Speaker A: Yes. An essential, like, icon of my five years. [00:07:14] Speaker B: So you drive, pack everything into your Smart Car? [00:07:17] Speaker C: Yes. [00:07:18] Speaker B: Your whole life. [00:07:19] Speaker A: Yes. There may have been a truck involved. [00:07:22] Speaker B: You pack everything. [00:07:24] Speaker A: The Smart Car is kind of like Mary Poppins bag. Where, like, one time I. The other day, it was really embarrassing. Like, my boyfriend realized we were out of, like, Reusable. Coffee mugs and I poured. I pulled out like, maybe seven reusable. [00:07:38] Speaker B: Just like, I remember that from 2022. I went to Starbucks. [00:07:41] Speaker A: And, yeah, everything's in there. But, yeah, so I moved out in my little smart car and I didn't know anyone. And so I was just honestly applying to, like, random shit online and didn't really fully, I guess, understand, or maybe it just didn't make a difference because I needed a job. The advice of, like, if you apply to a production company that's just listed on like, Holly List or LinkedIn or something, like, you're never going to get that job. So I was just applying to every random thing. And then it was super random where one day it was like. I think it was on LinkedIn in some, like, entertainment chat or like, board or something. A girl posted, she was like, hey, I need someone to help out on a shoot tomorrow. And, like, it didn't sound, like, sexy or, like, fun at all. Like, shit. Like, they made it sound like you're gonna watch, like, the construction workers build, like, set up for something. [00:08:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Not glamorous. [00:08:41] Speaker A: Not glamorous. And so I responded to her and basically it was this show called Pivoting. That was a FOX sitcom that ran for one season and it was filming on the Warner Brothers lot. And so I showed up. I think they were actually filming, like, the first day at a roller. The roller skating rink in Glendale. And that was the first day. And that was terrifying watching, like, the extras who, like all the background, of course, said they could roller skate and they could not. Oh, my God. And like, all the equipment is the [00:09:12] Speaker B: other people who drive in their smart cars to LA and, yeah, consistently lying [00:09:18] Speaker A: about what they can do. [00:09:19] Speaker C: I have a truck. We all. [00:09:22] Speaker A: We all do. We all lie at some point. [00:09:24] Speaker B: We all say that we can roller [00:09:25] Speaker A: skate, but these people saying they could roller skate, like, watching them, like, almost smack into the camera over and over was terrifying. But so I worked. I was like a PI on the show Pivoting for which when I started, they were already like, maybe a month in. And so I worked on that for a month. And then I was like, okay, well, if I'm gonna do this, I want to work on something that I think is cool. And so I literally, like, googled euphoria season two. Like, it was not. I looked up euphoria season two on, like, LinkedIn again or something and just saw people who worked. And, like, in retrospect, this is embarrassing, but it's also. It worked. [00:10:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:00] Speaker A: So I found some like PAs, like, you know, like low level people and like production coordinators. And I messaged them and I was still working on the other show and I was like, hey, like, I'm a PA on a show that's gonna wrap in a couple weeks if you need any, like, anyone. And Euphoria, famously, like season two went on for a really, really long time. And so they shot it for eight months or something? No, they just, they kept like adding things. [00:10:30] Speaker C: Love that. So cool. [00:10:32] Speaker A: Season two, when they. The whole thing with Lexi's play, they had like 400 background every day. And so there was like a big group of people there. [00:10:39] Speaker B: There's a lot of people to wrangle, right? [00:10:41] Speaker A: There's a lot of people to wrangle. But there was also like a lot of turnover. And so like, you know, because people would like, take other jobs and things. And so people were starting to like, fall off at the end too. And so I worked on the show for like a week. Like, it was not a long period of time at all, but I thought it was cool, obviously. [00:11:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Where was that? Where were they shooting? [00:11:03] Speaker A: On the Formosa lot. [00:11:05] Speaker C: Were you a fan of the show [00:11:06] Speaker A: going the first season? Yeah, I was a fan of the first season. [00:11:11] Speaker C: And what did it feel like being able to see that? Well, I guess we haven't even really gotten into it, but like, at that time when you were applying kind of blindly for jobs, like, were you like, I want to be a writer job director, I'd be a producer. I want to be. [00:11:25] Speaker A: I honestly was like, I want to like, create things. And like, I wrote some scripts in college and. But I would have gladly taken. I think I wanted a job at a production company ideally, without really understanding that most people get those jobs through like, agency or, you know, management company. [00:11:49] Speaker B: Well, you didn't have any, like, frame of mind. [00:11:51] Speaker A: I had no idea what. I had no idea what I was doing. But I'm really glad, honestly, that my first, my first year ultimately was spent on sets. Because first off, like, you go from knowing no one to being surrounded by people all day, every day. [00:12:08] Speaker C: It's crazy. It's a very social. Hyper social for sure. [00:12:10] Speaker A: Yeah, completely. And then obviously now, like being on the producing, like, now I'm a producer, but also, like, when I got hired, we had a movie in post and I've sold things in development, but we haven't had a movie go yet. And so I also produce shorts and things on the side. But, like, my real set experience was just like the first year. Crazy TV shows and it's good because I honestly think when I first heard that shows shot for 12 hours a day, I was like, can I do that? Like, I don't know if I could do, like. [00:12:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, right. [00:12:48] Speaker A: Well, just like the time you're like, damn. I was like, like, what do you mean? Like, is that real? Like 12 hours a day for like, if you're lucky. If you're. Exactly. And. And, you know, working on Euphoria and the Idol, it was. It was rarely 12 hours a day. [00:13:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:05] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:05] Speaker C: How is the deal? [00:13:06] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:13:06] Speaker C: So. [00:13:07] Speaker A: Yeah, so how did. [00:13:08] Speaker B: How did. So basically a week on Euphoria to. [00:13:11] Speaker A: As happened. So it was a week on Euphor. It was the last week of the show. [00:13:14] Speaker B: Crazy. [00:13:15] Speaker A: It wrapped in. I guess it was like Thanksgiving. It wrapped like Thanksgiving the day before Thanksgiving in 2021. And then I went back to. I, like, went to my cousins in San Diego for Thanksgiving and I was back to like, okay, like, time to hustle and find a job again. And then I got a text the next day from someone who had worked on Euphoria and was like, hey. The Idol was also an HBO production. It was also filming at the Formosa lot when Euphoria was like, rapping. [00:13:48] Speaker B: It's like a very much a cross crossover show. [00:13:51] Speaker A: Like, it's right. Of course. And it became. Yes, but it. And it became even more of that when Sam directed the show that aired, but basically he wasn't the original director. And they shot like five episodes of. [00:14:08] Speaker C: Whoa. [00:14:09] Speaker A: The show with like. Oh, yeah. They shot it with like, very different, like several. The Weeknd and Lily Rose Duck were the main actors. But yeah, a bunch of the supporting cast was different. [00:14:21] Speaker B: Yeah, thank God it worked out a lot of. [00:14:23] Speaker A: Exactly. And. And many Emmys were won. [00:14:26] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:14:26] Speaker A: It was a huge success. [00:14:27] Speaker B: Thank God they did those reshoots and [00:14:29] Speaker C: put that exactly back into it. [00:14:31] Speaker A: But it was. It was a really fascinating experience. And again, like, at that point, my sad experience had been like a month. And so I had no idea what was going on. And of course, like, when we filmed the original iteration of the Idol, no one knew, like, what was going to happen. [00:14:46] Speaker B: Right. That's like a fascinating project. [00:14:50] Speaker A: Yes. Essentially there was like. [00:14:53] Speaker C: Was that also like an eight month process or was that. [00:14:55] Speaker A: Yes, and so it was really kind of touch and go. Basically what happened was it started. Yeah, it started. Started. There was like two weeks of overlap with Euphoria, so I missed like the first two weeks. And then it filmed November 2021 to March of 2022. [00:15:13] Speaker C: Levinson was like. [00:15:14] Speaker A: And so. But Sam wasn't directing it at this time. He was a producer. He was an ep. [00:15:19] Speaker C: He was showrunning, though, right? No, he wasn't. [00:15:22] Speaker A: No, he was like, he was an ep, so he didn't. [00:15:24] Speaker C: Oh, my God. [00:15:25] Speaker A: But he was editing Euphoria. [00:15:28] Speaker B: He was in post on Euphoria while. [00:15:30] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. [00:15:31] Speaker B: Production. [00:15:32] Speaker A: Yes. And so I guess that does line up. So. Yeah, I remember, like, the. The first iteration of it, like, he came to set one day and it was because he had to go to the dmv and the Formosa Law is right next to the dmv. And so he had, like, stopped in and said hi. But he was fully in post on another show. And. Yeah. And then in March, essentially what happened was the show originally had been directed by Amy Seimetz, who is also an actor. And so she had a heart out in March and she was directing every episode. And essentially, like, my understanding of what happened with this was that they pitched the show in August and greenlit it in November, which is, of course, like, never happens because it was planned around the weekend's, like, tour schedule. [00:16:23] Speaker B: Right, I guess that makes sense. [00:16:24] Speaker A: And. But it meant the scripts were really, like, rushed. And so they were still, like, changing lots of major things. Like, especially the ending, the last episode. Like, I read so many different drafts of it, and Amy, like, as a result, couldn't really make all her days as a director and was. And had a hard out. And so they didn't finish the last episode. They didn't get to the last episode. And so what they said to everyone was like, we're gonna. The network, like, really loves what they're seeing. We're gonna take a two week break to, like, get the writing correct for, like, the final episode and, like, nail the story and we'll come back in two weeks. Two weeks pass, nothing. [00:17:11] Speaker B: So this is what they told you, [00:17:12] Speaker A: and this is what they said to everyone on set. Two weeks pass, no one hears anything. Come. Like, I think it was like, end of May or, like, June, the show starts up again with Sam directing. [00:17:25] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:25] Speaker A: And like, several different, you know, supporting [00:17:29] Speaker B: cast members and directing just from the start. [00:17:32] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean, he directed every episode. [00:17:34] Speaker C: Okay, here's the pilot. You're like, wait, what? Like, what is that? What? It was like, everyone was just kind [00:17:39] Speaker B: of like, oh, okay, did Sam go in and rewrite everything? Is that what. Yeah, because he was directing. [00:17:44] Speaker A: Yes. And of course he, like, writes Euphoria too. So he. And honestly, like, I don't think he had A lot of time, like he was writing a bunch of things on the fly. [00:17:53] Speaker C: Oh, my God. [00:17:54] Speaker A: Like, he was. He was just like. [00:17:56] Speaker B: And still in post on. [00:17:57] Speaker C: No pressure dialogue. [00:17:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:00] Speaker C: Oh, my God. [00:18:01] Speaker A: That's insane. It was insane. And so. And then it shot from like, I want to say June, July, and then the weekend had to go on tour for or something. And so we took like a month long hiatus and then came back. [00:18:13] Speaker C: That's tough. [00:18:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:15] Speaker C: Were the hours out of control? [00:18:17] Speaker A: It was. It was really long. [00:18:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:20] Speaker A: And it. Leonardo was idle, particularly during that time. Yeah. [00:18:24] Speaker C: Leonard. [00:18:25] Speaker A: Poor Leonardo was driving to Bel Air because it like shot at the weekend's house. [00:18:29] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:29] Speaker A: Like the second iteration. Because they like didn't have a ton of money at that point since so much was spent on the first iteration. [00:18:38] Speaker B: So crazy. What a crazy, like, kind. Yeah. One of your. [00:18:41] Speaker A: It was awesome. I honestly though, like, people ask, they're like, how was that experience? I was like, it. It was really fun. [00:18:46] Speaker B: I'm sure. [00:18:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:48] Speaker B: What was it like hanging out at the weekend's house? [00:18:50] Speaker A: Like, it was also like, I guess it. [00:18:52] Speaker B: I mean, once a full crew is there, like, it probably doesn't feel as much. [00:18:56] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. Like, I wasn't like hanging out in the pool and stuff like that, but it was nice. And he had like a home theater. And I think one of the like, also really nice parts about working on the show is that I still to this day, like, I will stand behind the soundtrack, release laps. [00:19:14] Speaker C: So cool. [00:19:15] Speaker A: Still play the soundtrack in Leonardo, like, as I'm going down the freeway. And Leonardo's like, don't remind me. Yeah. No, Leonardo loves the Idol soundtrack. But. Yeah. No. So we saw so many live music performances and like Moses Sumney was an actor in the show and like would just, you know, sing and it was amazing. [00:19:34] Speaker C: And like, Dean was there. [00:19:35] Speaker A: Mike Dean was in the show. We went to the weekend's concert. We got like backstage. [00:19:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:43] Speaker A: Yeah. It was a lot of fun. He has like a gym and like Moses Sumney would like be in the gym. Like just like do singing and like, it's like God. Yeah. And of course, like Abel, like, also was would. I guess he doesn't really like sing in the show as much, but like Lily Rose Depp has her whole dance routines and so it's a lot of the music stuff was a lot of [00:20:07] Speaker C: fun and big cast. Like, that was a. I think. I mean, it was a very high profile show. [00:20:12] Speaker B: Very high profile show. And. And I would say marketed very well. [00:20:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:16] Speaker B: And everybody was watching it. Like, they did they did what they set out to do. In some ways. [00:20:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:22] Speaker A: It's really, like. What's fascinating about it is that I know, like, one of their big, like, tonal comps for how they wanted it to feel was Paul Verhoeven, who is such an amazing director, but of course, has made, like, several commercial flops that are, like, now revered. And I don't, like. Not that I don't quite know if the Idol was that town, but I have some people, when I say I worked on the show, will, like, tell me their opinion of their, like. Oh, yeah. I think, like, in 20 years from now, people will understand, I feel. [00:20:56] Speaker B: Yeah, that's, like, kind of a hot take, that. [00:20:58] Speaker C: Like. [00:20:59] Speaker B: Like, there's always the person who's like, I actually really liked it. [00:21:02] Speaker A: Yeah, no, completely. [00:21:03] Speaker C: The music is awesome in that show. [00:21:05] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, the music's amazing. [00:21:06] Speaker C: And it's such a cool idea. Such a cool concept. [00:21:08] Speaker A: Right, of course. And, like. And the cast in it, like, Dave and Joy Randolph, like, won an Oscar. [00:21:16] Speaker C: Like, Troye Sivan's in it. [00:21:19] Speaker B: It's like a sick cast. [00:21:23] Speaker C: I'm tripping on her name. NYU chick that I love, LA Rachel Simon. [00:21:26] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I was gonna. Yeah, I remember there were some comedy people in it. [00:21:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:31] Speaker A: Oh, completely. [00:21:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:32] Speaker C: And Lily is amazing. [00:21:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Nosferatu. Like, I'm so amazed by her. [00:21:38] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, she's, like, an extreme actor. Yeah, she goes there. [00:21:41] Speaker C: How was she on set? [00:21:43] Speaker A: She was, like, super dedicated to the show. And it was interesting because, like, up until that point, I think she'd been in kind of smaller, more indie productions, and she was kind of, like, Instagram famous. But I. But I don't think a lot of people would have really known who she was or had, like, seen her work. [00:22:03] Speaker B: Like a household name. [00:22:04] Speaker A: Yeah, completely. [00:22:05] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. [00:22:06] Speaker A: And I think she's so talented and, like, really can just get there emotionally in a super fast amount of time and is working on cool stuff. They just announced. I'm still pretty good friends with her assistant, and they just announced. She's, of course, in the new Eggers movie, but she's starring in Lorraine Nicholson. Jack Nicholson's daughter has a directorial debut. [00:22:30] Speaker B: What's that project? I saw it on Deadline or something. [00:22:34] Speaker A: I think it's called Playmates, and it's kind of about, like, a Playboy bunny model and, like, Hugh Hefner. [00:22:41] Speaker B: Someone's playing Hugh Hefner. Yeah. [00:22:43] Speaker C: Is it like a. [00:22:43] Speaker A: That Searchlight's making? But it's kind of like. Yeah, from the eyes of, like, the. A Young girl, like, growing up in this environment. I think it is. I still have to read the script, but. Yeah, but I think. I think it's like a little girl who's like, maybe like one of Hugh's daughters or something, like, and like meeting the bunnies and everything. [00:23:03] Speaker B: It seems like a cool project for her. It seems very up and round. [00:23:05] Speaker C: That does sound cool. So with that experience, like, after Euphoria and the Idol, very high profile shows, did you keep PA after that or was it like, okay, I day played [00:23:16] Speaker A: on, like a couple really random things after that point, but I think simultaneously at the same time. So it's funny because there was, like I said, a gap in the Idol's, like, filming schedule. I also, like, simultaneously had done an internship at Fox in development, which was. Yeah. Which was a lot of fun. And so basically, because when I was an intern at the television academy, they, like, it's a giant program. [00:23:46] Speaker B: Don't they place you in. [00:23:47] Speaker A: Yeah, they place you with, like, specific production companies or a bunch of categories. And so someone else I knew in the program had been a TV development intern at fx. And afterwards, I think I just, like, asked her if their internship program, like, you can be a year, maybe a year and a half out of college for all, like, Disney internships. And so I was out of college, but I asked. I, like, applied to the job, but then also asked the girl I'd been in the program with if she could introduce me to her bosses, which she did. And so I worked there for a bit, which was. Obviously, they make such cool shows and I was an intern, so I was doing a bunch of coverage and stuff. Stuff. But they, like, they're a buyer and so cool things come in. You know, what. [00:24:31] Speaker B: What were some of the things they were, like, developing at that point? [00:24:34] Speaker A: Do you remember at that point? So this was. This was pre the bear coming out. So I like, read the first season of the Bear. [00:24:40] Speaker B: Crazy. [00:24:40] Speaker C: That's cool. [00:24:42] Speaker A: Yeah, like, this was snowfall. [00:24:45] Speaker C: Really big at that time for that [00:24:47] Speaker A: snowfall was probably like, snowfall. And like, Atlanta had been like their calling card. [00:24:52] Speaker B: It's post the Americans, probably. [00:24:54] Speaker A: Yes, it was pre, like, Shogun. [00:24:57] Speaker C: Wow. [00:24:58] Speaker A: And yeah, it was really cool. [00:25:01] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like the Disney's hbo. [00:25:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, essentially. And so, yeah, that was a lot of fun. I think that also made me realize, like, well, of course, like, like I said, it was great experience to be on a set. But then I realized pretty quickly that it's very hard to get any upward mobility from that job if you're not like, Hoping to be an AD or in, like, work in the camera department or anything. [00:25:27] Speaker B: But being on set is about just meeting people. [00:25:30] Speaker A: People. Exactly. [00:25:31] Speaker B: And getting that on set experience, which you're gonna, you know completely. And getting to, like, say in interviews that you worked with, like, that's cool. [00:25:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. But also, I think at that point I was like, okay, well, now it was also pre strikes, too, so everyone was a little nervous about the strike. I was like, I don't know if I should keep doing. Like, it feels like the show's ending and it's time to kind of move on to something else. And I'd done that internship experience at fx, which was great. And I was like, oh, like, I'd love to be a development assistant. But also, like, particularly there, the turnover is so slow because everyone loves working there and you usually need some, like, agency experience to do that. And at that point, I think I was, like, a little afraid of. I was like, I'm going from working on this really cool show, do I want to go work at an agency and maybe not even be in the department that's interesting to me and be yelled at and so far away from the action, which I somewhat. Not that I regret it, because I like where I'm at now. And I don't think I would have gotten there had I gone the traditional agency route. But I can see how it's enormously helpful, for sure. And I think of that, like, often when I. [00:26:48] Speaker C: When I'm like, oh, in the networking sense of, like, meeting the folks honestly, [00:26:54] Speaker A: in the sense of you just learn who everyone is really fast. And like, working on a set, it's like, okay, you see how the different departments work together. You make friends, you get the actual [00:27:06] Speaker B: set experience, understand how it goes. [00:27:07] Speaker A: But I can't, like, name just like, you know, working at the agency, you learn so fast, like, who the different producers are, who the studio heads are. Yeah. Who are the buyers? What are they buying. Yeah. And getting that information. And. [00:27:21] Speaker C: But then they don't know anything about production and the department, you know, so it's a very interesting, like. [00:27:27] Speaker A: Yeah, completely. And I've definitely, like, heard people say that where they're like, they go the more, like, traditional route. And then you could be at a production company, you could be a VP at a production company and have never. Years and have never stepped foot on a set. [00:27:41] Speaker C: Totally. [00:27:42] Speaker B: Because being on set is very hard. And it takes a totally different set of skills. [00:27:46] Speaker A: Right. Completely. Than just, like, developing projects. [00:27:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And you can only send one or two people from A company on set. So if it's exactly, you know, you [00:27:55] Speaker A: want the senior people, and particularly now, I think that's been kind of like a problem in that, you know, people, of course, say this all the time, but, like, very few people in Hollywood leave their jobs. A lot of people don't retire. They do it until they die. The studio heads are. You know, people used to run studios when they were 35. Now the studio heads are not that age. A lot of producers are. You know, they have, like, big teams of people at their company. And if you're a VP or, you know, more junior exec, it could take a really long time to actually get on a set. [00:28:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:35] Speaker C: If only, like, you do that for sure. [00:28:37] Speaker B: A trend. [00:28:38] Speaker C: It feels like that. Not stasis, but, like, the. The difficulty of, like, progressing upward. [00:28:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:46] Speaker C: Career wise, as you said, you felt, you know, pa. Unless you want to be an ad or different departments, whatever. But, like, I think it is the same. And on the industry side, too, where it's like, it's not an easy thing to do to, like. I guess it might be more. But no, I. I guess I was gonna say it might be more traditional, but it's not. Because if you want to be an ad, like, there's your traditional routes. You PA and you PA and you get your days and then you. You know. But did you just feel more at home in an office than you do on set or than you did on set, or was it more? [00:29:18] Speaker A: No, I would love to be on set again. Like, I totally miss that, and I would love to have more of that and hopefully, well, soon. [00:29:24] Speaker B: Totally. [00:29:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:25] Speaker A: Um, but at the same time, I have, like, learned definitely a lot of stuff, because one thing that's great about my job now is that I read scripts all the time, and I, at that point was not. Like, I would read the Idol when we got sides. Like, I would read the sides. [00:29:43] Speaker C: You're like, this is the C, Right? Yeah. [00:29:46] Speaker A: Or like, being an intern at fx, it was like, okay. Like, obviously I would read stuff, but essentially. So what happened from there was. I'm like, okay, I need to get on a desk. And again, this was pre strikes and everything. And I honestly got a pretty random job as an assistant at an. At a company called Asylum Entertainment. And basically when I started, it was a mix of scripted and unscripted, but a much smaller, like, scripted department. They did a lot of, like, unscripted stuff. But at this point, the Idol had wrapped, and I was like, okay, like, I need. And I was like, day playing on stuff, but not like anything long term. And I was like, okay, like, I need a job. I started working there and it was like, I definitely had a nice work life balance in that. Like, I was, you know, 9 to 5 and I had time to like, [00:30:38] Speaker C: go a little different than. [00:30:40] Speaker A: Than pa yeah, completely. And I like, freelanced for a book scout company in that time too. [00:30:45] Speaker B: So you're getting to read. [00:30:46] Speaker A: To, like, read the books and write up my little reports on, like, do. Who would I recommend this for and everything. But basically, in the time that I worked there, the company was purchased by Endeavor, and so it's now owned by Endeavor. [00:31:02] Speaker B: And it's still a company, right? [00:31:03] Speaker A: Asylum, I think. [00:31:04] Speaker B: So they do feel like they mostly do unscripted. [00:31:08] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, that's what I'm so. So now because of. Because of the whole, like, Endeavor content WME lawsuit back in the day, like, W. Me or Endeavor can't produce scripted content. They can produce unscripted content. So basically they bought this company and like, you know, are making like a whole wide array of things from, you know, true crime docs to game shows, reality stuff. But that was not my passion. And I also. My boss is like, knew that was not my passion. I'd been honest about that. And so at a certain point I was like, I worked there. I like, saved up my money, but I'm also an assistant at a production company and I'm like, I can just go get another entry level job somewhere else because, you know, I'm like, yeah, [00:31:59] Speaker B: like at the same time. [00:32:01] Speaker A: No, no, no. I'm like, I wanted to leave, basically. No, not at the same time. [00:32:04] Speaker B: I could do multiple. [00:32:06] Speaker A: I could do everything. [00:32:08] Speaker B: And I'm still on the Idol at this point. [00:32:10] Speaker A: Yeah, no, yeah. So that was done. I worked at Asylum for maybe even a bit over a year. And then I was like, okay, I miss, like being really in the swing of things. And that was also the year through the strikes, by the way. So it was nice. Cause I, like, I had a job [00:32:27] Speaker B: and especially in every flocking to unscripted during this. [00:32:30] Speaker A: Right, Exactly. And so like, that stuff was all like, going, yeah, I know. Like, a bunch of my friends weren't working. And so I was relieved for that. Of course, when the strike ended, I'm like, okay, I have to figure out what I'm gonna do. And so I just told my boss I wanted to leave and I left without having something, like, lined up. [00:32:49] Speaker C: Wow. [00:32:50] Speaker A: Which was choice, but. But like I said, I was like, I'll just get another entry level position. On something thing like, well, whatever. [00:32:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:57] Speaker A: And so I laughed and I like, went and produced a short with Karen. Was that with Karen? [00:33:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:05] Speaker A: Yeah, that was like, right after. No, not the. I would have loved to produce the [00:33:10] Speaker B: worm we would all kill, though. [00:33:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:12] Speaker A: Though I know I wouldn't have been helpful at all other than to tell her, like, that looks amazing. [00:33:17] Speaker B: I would just, like, laugh. [00:33:18] Speaker C: Yeah, this is really good. [00:33:19] Speaker A: Yeah, nice job. I was like, this is great. I did. I will say I listened to her podcast episode with you guys and I did read the script and I do remember, like, she said, like, I want to make this a live action movie. And I'm like, you cannot make this alive. She like, she wanted to make it, like, creepy. [00:33:38] Speaker C: That would be super scary and weird [00:33:39] Speaker A: and maybe someday she'll make a remake. [00:33:42] Speaker B: But you can't have a real person doing all that. [00:33:44] Speaker A: It's such a sweet, cute, animated short and would have been so different. And so that's the credit I'll give myself is. I was one of the several people who told her that, that I'm like, if you. You have. You are one of the few enough people who has the skills to make a beautiful animated. [00:34:01] Speaker B: Skills and patience and resources in terms of people around her like, yeah, yeah, completely. [00:34:07] Speaker A: And so. [00:34:08] Speaker C: Well, you mentioned that you were writing scripts in college. Was that still a thought for you? Is that still a thought for you? Is that like, are you still writing? You think about writing? [00:34:18] Speaker A: Yeah, completely. And so like, I. That I basically like, the long backstory, I guess, is like, I. I think a lot of people get into the entertainment, like, industry through like theater. And so I was like a theater kid when I was young and then started writing and like in college was writing. And so that was like my goal when I moved out here. And then I like did that. I did that through like my job at Asylum and everything like that. And then I was like, okay, well, I want to do this while also like learning the skills to be able to make stuff and like produce stuff. And so, yeah, like now I think it's hard with these jobs because I think a lot of these jobs are like, they take all. They take 100% creative energy. Yeah, they were. They. They take like 100%. And a lot of people, like multiple things, wear multiple hats. But so, yeah, so I basically got the opportunity I had now to like step up and be a producer. But yeah, I still write stuff too. [00:35:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:35:26] Speaker B: But let's. Let's talk about that. Cuz you first started working with Rust how many years ago? [00:35:31] Speaker A: Two years. Two years ago. Yeah. So, like, it was pretty recently. [00:35:34] Speaker B: And how would you describe that? [00:35:36] Speaker C: Like, management and the folks listening? Don't know. So. [00:35:39] Speaker A: Yes. [00:35:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, let's talk about that. [00:35:41] Speaker A: I'll give the full backstory, which is. Honestly, like, I think I really lucked out. And of course, like. Like I said, my first years, I was just kind of networking and trying to, like, hear how other people were ripping drinks. Yeah. When I. When I first. [00:35:55] Speaker B: Jesus. [00:35:55] Speaker A: When I started, like, working with Wyatt, I probably went out and, like, got drinks four nights a week. [00:36:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:02] Speaker C: What. What was the. Was it just to make. Meet people? Was it, like, building a community of people that. [00:36:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I honestly had a sense of, like, I didn't work at the agencies, and so, like, let me try to manufacture. Let me pretend that I did. [00:36:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:18] Speaker A: And I think I'll get into more, too. Like, now I don't go to drinks four nights a week, but now, like, the nice thing is, like, I do take lunches and coffees, and I do probably still meet, like, a lot of people throughout the week. It's nice that they don't all have to be. [00:36:34] Speaker B: I don't do drinks. [00:36:35] Speaker C: I. I've done a couple drinks. I. I'm like. I get. I don't know. It's like a strange. It's like, let's just get. [00:36:41] Speaker A: I honestly, like, I really liked the getting drinks with people era, and I [00:36:45] Speaker B: feel like I'm in a. I'm in a big drinks period. [00:36:47] Speaker C: Right. [00:36:48] Speaker B: I go through. Yeah, we can talk off air wine. [00:36:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Because I remember I was like. [00:36:54] Speaker B: I felt like, specific point points in your life when you feel like I should be grinding drinks. [00:36:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:00] Speaker C: And does it happen like that, though? Because everyone gets off work, so naturally it's like, okay, let's get off of that. [00:37:05] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. Where it's like when we're free and I'm like. And I don't want to hang out with you on the weekend. [00:37:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:10] Speaker A: So, no. [00:37:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:12] Speaker A: I have tried to do that in the past. And then I was like, I'll do [00:37:14] Speaker B: weekend coffees if, like, I'm really vibing with the person. And, like, we find out that we live two blocks away. [00:37:19] Speaker A: Right. And so now we're friends. Yeah. Which is, of course, like, ideally, like, how some of those things progress. [00:37:26] Speaker B: Ideally, you remain in contact with the person you have drinks with. [00:37:31] Speaker A: Yes, completely. Not always the case. [00:37:33] Speaker B: I would say it's 50% hit rate, probably. [00:37:36] Speaker C: So you were targeting agency folks, Honestly. [00:37:39] Speaker A: And it was kind of a mixture. So. Okay. I'll like, give a little backstory to this too, because, like, I would say I think I totally lucked out. What happened was I essentially was like, I applied to Fourth Wall, a management company, to be an assistant to two managers. [00:38:00] Speaker B: I remember seeing her resume even before. Like, I remember because her predecessor Hannah was, like, just showing me resumes, and. [00:38:08] Speaker A: Yes, completely. [00:38:09] Speaker B: And I remember seeing the Idol on your resume and was like, we gotta at least talk to her. [00:38:14] Speaker A: Yeah. And I had a really fun. I remember, like, really vibe. Hannah called me and we had our, like, introductory phone call. And I remember we really just, like, vibed, and it was fun. And it was not like. I honestly think she was just like, what was it like to work on that show? Yeah, but so Hannah left. She went to infrared. So basically, I inter. I interviewed with her. I interviewed with Russell, who was to be one of my manager bosses, and he said in my interview, he was like, so my story is that, like, I'm a manager, but I was a producer for 15 years before I became a manager. [00:38:54] Speaker C: Wow. [00:38:54] Speaker A: And I just went and produced a movie. He had just, like, rocked this movie, Adulthood, that premiered at TIFF last year and that Alex Winter directed. That was independent. She's like, so I just came back from that. So my slate, like, my roster of clients has kind of gone down because I just went and produced a movie [00:39:11] Speaker C: for a couple months for a client or just completely separate. [00:39:16] Speaker A: Alex, who directed the movie formerly, was his client. And then Russell, like, really put this movie together. It was a script that his friend wrote, like, eight years ago or something, and he, like, really got it off the ground. They. They, you know, got their, like, talent attached. He went off and produced it with Alex, and then the. The movie got into tiff and Bruman had tiff and they were like, let's just, like, produce together. And so now Russell's like, one of, you know, he's one of the directors we're working with, but they're, like, producing some other movies together. And so he's not his client. He's somewhere else. But Russell's like, honestly, Russell said in my interview, like, I don't want to be a manager. I want to be a producer. [00:40:01] Speaker C: So that's you? [00:40:02] Speaker A: Yes. [00:40:02] Speaker B: And you're like, how did that make you feel? [00:40:04] Speaker A: Also, he says it to, like, everyone else. But what it made me feel, he said in my interview, like, ideally, I would love to have an assistant who wants to, like, produce things with me. And if you want that, like, opportunity. Yes, exactly. [00:40:21] Speaker C: But so, yeah, right. [00:40:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And he was like, I would love to find someone who would actually want [00:40:27] Speaker B: to grow into the role. Basically. [00:40:28] Speaker A: Yes. [00:40:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:29] Speaker A: But what was funny about it was that I had another theoretical boss who was a manager at 4th Wall, who I also interviewed with. And so it was a double. [00:40:39] Speaker B: She was going to be on a double desk. Yeah. [00:40:40] Speaker A: Between two, like, managers. And then I got hired. And then Russell called me the next day, like the day before I was supposed to start, and he was like, so like the other manager who you just got hired to work for is leaving. She just said, like, she's leaving to go to work at a different management company. And so. Which was a, like, interesting situation for him because he was at that point, like sharing the cost of an assistant. [00:41:10] Speaker B: When you're at a small management company, you're, you know, it's very. [00:41:13] Speaker A: Yeah. And so he, like, he, like, he just paid half of his assistant's, like, salary. And so now I was gonna be his, like, only, just, only his employee. But he called it honestly was great for me because I went from, like, theoretically I would have had to have two bosses and I just became his full time employee. And yeah, essentially what he said to me was like, look, like, half of your job is going to be administrative, like, you know, answering the phone, scheduling the client meetings, that sort of stuff. He's like, but I don't have that many clients. A lot of them were working. So they were just, you know, when they're working, they're not taking generals. Like, they're all. [00:41:54] Speaker C: These are writers. [00:41:55] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Primarily writers. [00:41:57] Speaker C: So they're not, they're not calling you guys every day. [00:41:59] Speaker A: This is not like a couple directors, really. Primarily writers. And so he was like, the admin stuff, like, won't be that hard. He's like, but I really would love to find someone who wants to produce stuff with me. [00:42:14] Speaker B: He's like, half of your job is gonna find me. [00:42:16] Speaker A: The next project is being, like, finding material. And yeah, so I think when I very first started, like, obviously I was kind of just learning the ropes of his, like, slate and his assistant stuff, which again, was not like super crazy busy or like overwhelming or anything like that. And then very quickly he was like, okay, call up the agents and the managers and like, find me. Find the next great scripts. Like, find material. [00:42:45] Speaker B: He was just like, sayer, creative exec, right? [00:42:47] Speaker A: Yes. [00:42:47] Speaker B: Didn't he tell you to do that? [00:42:48] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, he was just like, like, call people, tell them whatever you need to say. Just like, he was like, I don't care who you call. He's like, I don't care who you call. Which is obviously very different than, I think, a lot of other people's early jobs. And so, yeah, I would do that. [00:43:05] Speaker C: He's just like. Just make like, say you're creative exec, but can't people just, like, look up your name or something? [00:43:11] Speaker A: I mean, you can, but, like. [00:43:13] Speaker C: But, like, they won't. [00:43:14] Speaker A: People don't care. [00:43:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, also, some bosses are, like, protective over their thing of, like, you know, you. You are my assistant, and this job is taking up your whole time. And then I think for him, it was because he was like, I Like, if. If you were doing a double desk, it would be purely administrative. [00:43:31] Speaker A: Right, Right. [00:43:32] Speaker B: But since you're just him, he's like, the only way you're gonna be worth my money. [00:43:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:37] Speaker B: My money is by. You need to go out. [00:43:39] Speaker A: He find material. [00:43:40] Speaker B: He is very much like, he's the type of guy, from what I know, like, he like, anybody who has an idea, just, like, I want to hear it, like, completely. [00:43:48] Speaker A: And so. And the thing that's funny with him too, is so, like, as I'm saying that he also would do, like, the, like, the inverse of that, which is he would send, like, he'd share scripts with people, but he will, like, call up assistants at production companies and be like, so what you think? And they're like, do you want me to ask my boss? And he's like, no, like, you're the one reading it. Like, you know, particularly, like, people who he thinks are good and, like, really, like, trust their. Like, like can see them doing the work. Wow, that's cool. Yeah. So, you know, he's really for the people. But at the same time, I was like, okay, well, like, I started working here a month ago. I didn't work at the agencies. I don't want to make you don't ask of myself. [00:44:33] Speaker B: You don't know how it. Actually, I was like, I don't even. [00:44:36] Speaker A: Right. [00:44:36] Speaker B: So that is. That kind of the. [00:44:38] Speaker A: We didn't have any, like, very super specific, like, mandate. And so I. That really fed into the drinks thing because, like, at first, a lot of what I was doing was meeting assistants at a mix of, like, agencies, production companies, management companies, and asking them, like, what's your favorite thing that you've read? And like, getting material that way. And honestly, like, that's calling is very [00:45:02] Speaker C: different than drinks in that case. Right? [00:45:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And now. And like, obviously now I make a bunch of cold calls. And I think that's kind of like, [00:45:10] Speaker C: okay, if you're not to the same to, like, to. [00:45:13] Speaker A: To agents and to managers and to, like, buyers, too, like, studio people. You know, it's like, if you're not gonna work if you want to, particularly producing, and you're not coming up through, like, the traditional agency experience, it's like, you pick up the phone and you call people and you meet people. [00:45:35] Speaker C: Yeah. And when you're meeting them, is it like, I have a project for you, or it's like, what do you have for me? [00:45:41] Speaker A: I would say. And also, like, a lot of times Russell and I will, like, go places to get, like, lunches with people together. But usually it's just like, telling them the projects we're working on, and they kind of pitch the clients to us who, like, might make sense for us to meet with or, you know, hopefully. Like, I. I think one thing too, is. So basically, Russell and I were like, we have to be scrappy. We're a lot of. We don't have a deal. So, like, a lot of agencies will only. [00:46:18] Speaker B: They'll get a script, assign territories to places that have a deal. [00:46:21] Speaker A: Right. They. They get a new script in, and they're sending it out to producers, and they're like, okay, like, what's, like, a production company with, like, that's talent led and the talent could make sense for this, or director led and the director makes sense for this. Or they have a deal at a buyer who might make sense for this. So you're, like, not thinking about you. Obvious. Like, understandably. [00:46:42] Speaker B: So they have to get to know you guys in different ways. Like, you have to put yourself in front of you. Be like, hey, I. And now you have a couple, you know, projects you sold under your belt. You're ideally, like, establishing a sort of tone or whatever. Now an agent will be like, I should call Russell Hollander for this, or I should call Ashley Witch for this. [00:47:02] Speaker A: And yeah. And particularly, like. So Russ's advice was him coming from, like, the management side, too. He's like, I send material to people who read my material and respond, which is not actually. [00:47:17] Speaker B: That's a high bar. [00:47:18] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. Like, you would. You'd be surprised because on the one hand, I think it's like an industry in Hollywood full of people who work really hard. But whether it be because people are overworked or their teams are too small, whatever, people don't respond to material all the time. [00:47:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:35] Speaker A: And. Or it takes a really long time for them to, like, look at something, even if they're, like, a junior at a production company. And so Russell was like, read if Someone sends you something, read it, respond within 48 hours. [00:47:51] Speaker C: That's cool. [00:47:52] Speaker A: And then they will think of you, and then they'll, like, send you. [00:47:54] Speaker B: It's honestly, like, a great hack. One of the best ways to go about it. [00:47:57] Speaker A: Right? Exactly. And then it's kind of like you're more in their mind, you know, they know you're really doing the work. So, yeah, so we just try and, like, call people up and read a bunch of stuff. And also, like, I'd say less so with the bigger, like, agencies, but particularly with, like, other managers. Like, if you're a manager, this is. Your job is to set generals for people. Like, sometimes it can feel like there are only so many producers or, like, you could have a client who's already met at a bunch of different places. And so it's, like, great to get a cold call of someone, like, asking for, you know, who. Who kind of would make sense to sit down with and be able to set up stuff. [00:48:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:43] Speaker A: Yeah. I think the other thing that, like, Russell always does, too, is we've had some success with selling old projects and revamping old projects. And what does that entail? [00:48:53] Speaker C: Like, oh, man, I read this script 10 years ago. Or it's like, hey, here's this thing, you guys. [00:48:58] Speaker A: Yeah. So for, like, books, for example, it's like things get optioned. They fall out of option all the time. It's like trying to find things that fall out of option for scripts. I think a lot of times it's like a manager or an agent, they'll take out a script to the town if producers all pass for whatever reason, or it gets set up somewhere and then it goes into turnaround or something like that. It can be kind of in the back of your mind, but then. So Russell always, whenever we meet anyone, is like, is there a script that you love that you can't believe didn't sell? [00:49:36] Speaker C: Oh, I love that. [00:49:37] Speaker A: Yeah, that's cool. And so we found some good things that way. [00:49:40] Speaker C: Do you guys have similar taste? Do you find that. [00:49:42] Speaker B: I was about to ask the taste question. [00:49:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I think we, like, generally agree and so kind of what both of us say that we're looking for, and we're pretty open in terms of genre, but it's like fun commercial genre movies with big concepts. And Russell particularly is, like, a stickler for the big concepts that, you know, sometimes, like, perhaps, unfortunately, sometimes it's better to have a script with a big idea. And that's like an okay script versus something that's very beautifully written about Just like, yeah, a day in the life. Right. [00:50:19] Speaker C: Because of the. [00:50:21] Speaker A: Because studios buy something and then they usually, like, hire someone else to rewrite it anyway. [00:50:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:27] Speaker A: And so obviously not all the time, but that so often happens. And so it's really like. The other thing we talk about, too, is on the studio side, execs have less and less buying power. Like, a lot of times they are not able to just buy the script on their own. They have to ask their boss. So basically, what you need to do if you're selling a script, you need to have a great idea. You need to call up. Be confident in it, to call up the studio execs or. Or the small, like, the smaller guy or the junior people and be like, hey, I have the script I want you to read. Because they're the ones who will actually read the script. It's like, there's an idea. Like, I want you to read the script. Here's the idea. You can then pitch. You have 30 seconds to pitch that idea and have the other person get it and want to read it. And then if they love the script and they've just read it, they have 10 seconds to go pitch it to their boss who's going to buy it and is not going to read it. [00:51:28] Speaker B: And how do you convey a concept in 10 seconds? Then you. Like, that's the question, right? [00:51:34] Speaker A: Exactly. That's the question for the, like, on the scripts lab. Like, it's almost like we reverse engineer things all the time. [00:51:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:41] Speaker B: But that has to do with, like, that big concept mandate, right? [00:51:45] Speaker A: Yeah, completely. [00:51:46] Speaker B: Like, what is something. And it's something that I actually have noticed with you. Like, you have gotten, like, now you are so. You were always very good at this, but, like, you were so good at, like, just, like, refining the premise of a script into one sentence. Was that because of conversations with Russ or, like, because I know he'll be open with you if you're not making any sense. Like, right. [00:52:09] Speaker A: Completely and honestly. That was like. That is funny when you ask the taste question, because that's kind of been the little exercise he'll have me do if I read something and I'm like, oh, I like this. We should go sell this. And it hasn't happened that many times where we're, like, completely divided. But if he's like, oh, like, he'll usually. We'll usually agree on, like, oh, this is well written. I need this writer. This is good writing. But then he'll say, like he said before, I don't think this is a movie. [00:52:43] Speaker C: Mm. [00:52:44] Speaker A: And then I remember, like, particularly one time, I was like, why? Like, are we being too picky? Like, I think this is kind of cool. And he was like, okay, pitch me the idea the way you would pitch it to a studio executive. And I started pitching this idea and then I was like, fuck, you're right. Like, I don't know what I'm saying. Like, it's just a little too convoluted. Things like, I don't know. And I certainly don't feel that every movie has to be this way, but particularly when you're trying to sell, like, a back screenplay, you think of, like, watching Resident Evil. Super, like, clear. Like, clear. It happens like, in one night. A to B. Yeah. Clear movie. [00:53:29] Speaker B: Honestly, for, like, most movies in theaters, you could be able to. In one sense. [00:53:34] Speaker A: Yeah, completely. And. Yeah. And so we're. And I think the other thing that definitely, like, kind of alliance between me and Russell is we love things with a sense of humor or like a sense of dark comedy, too. Yeah. So a lot of our projects have some sort of, like, fun element. They're like, he's really averse to anything too, like, bleak or depressing. It's hard to sell things that are bleak or depressing. And so definitely, like, there will be some things we differ on, but I think, like, generally speaking, we're pretty aligned. And I think we're in kind of an interesting and exciting time right now because it seems like there's such a big divide at the moment between the movies that are working theatrically are either giant IP movies for everyone with great directors and movie stars that cost a lot of money to make. It's not really the game I'm in. Like, I'm not Mattel. Like, I don't have. The book market's really competitive. Russell and I have, like, optioned some books in the past, but, like, we're not going to get the next Colleen Hoover book. And so there's like, that side of things and then the other. Like, movies that are working theatrically are, like, made out of reasonable cost genre. Very often genre auteur driven, left of center, which is, I think, an exciting time. Like, it's really like, I heard just kind of a rumor from someone recently that Universal was like, we can't make 30 to 60 million dollar original ideas. Like, we just can't do it. Like, they're not working. Yeah, right. [00:55:23] Speaker C: And so, like, for, like, for the young filmmakers out there, like, come on. [00:55:28] Speaker A: Yeah. And I definitely. It's so. But it's interesting because I. I think A lot of my favorite movies are kind of offbeat and weird and director driven and left of center. It. It's interesting to find things that you can vouch for being like, both, like, oh, this is a commercial studio movie. And, like, it is a little weird, too. [00:55:50] Speaker C: You see primetime. [00:55:52] Speaker A: I haven't seen. I have tickets in a couple days. [00:55:54] Speaker B: But why did you say that? [00:55:56] Speaker C: That. [00:55:56] Speaker B: What. What brings up for you. [00:55:58] Speaker C: I mean, it's exactly. It's commercial and also left the center, you know. Yeah. [00:56:01] Speaker B: And lower budget. [00:56:03] Speaker C: Yeah. But also not that. I think it was like 15 mil was the. And supposedly it made 100 of that back first. [00:56:08] Speaker B: Oh, totally. [00:56:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:09] Speaker B: It was gonna open to 20 plus. [00:56:10] Speaker C: Yeah. Which I think it did. [00:56:12] Speaker A: Sure. [00:56:12] Speaker C: I think exactly that. [00:56:14] Speaker B: I definitely want to see that. [00:56:15] Speaker C: Yeah. It's fun there. It's about. [00:56:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:18] Speaker C: Chris Hansen and. [00:56:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:21] Speaker C: But Pattinson has so much fun with the character. It's. [00:56:23] Speaker B: He's having fun with his career, that guy. [00:56:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:25] Speaker C: But there's a lot of movies right now he'll like. He's like a flip phone, whatever. He, like, picks it because it's that time period. Right. 90s, whatever. But he, like, picks up the phone and he's like, calling the plumber or something. It's like, hey, this is Chris Hansen, NBC. It's like, okay, but there's one where his phone's ring. He picks up like, Chris Hansen. It's like, honey, I know. Like, the kids want to say hi. It's his wife calling. Complete insane. [00:56:49] Speaker B: So is it funny? [00:56:50] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. Theater was like, laughing out loud. [00:56:54] Speaker A: Yes. I think, like, the thing that I really love too, and if I could distill, like, one thing I'm looking for is I really like when it's darkly funny, when it's genuinely funny and also thrilling. [00:57:05] Speaker B: Did you like the drama? I was just thinking about the drama. Yeah. I think because of. [00:57:10] Speaker A: I really, like, sick of myself from. [00:57:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:13] Speaker A: From him. [00:57:14] Speaker B: Okay. [00:57:16] Speaker A: And I thought, like, that did a great job of doing both. I. What were, like, the other thing I like, I loved. If I had legs, I'd kick you. I felt like, every emotion under. I saw that movie at, like, 10am on a Saturday. Yeah. [00:57:29] Speaker B: That was a performance too. [00:57:31] Speaker A: Yeah. It's so crazy. Russell and I both really loved the musical that was at Sundance and, like, we've since met everyone who was involved, I think, just like this past weekend. [00:57:42] Speaker B: Oh, wow. Completely. [00:57:44] Speaker A: It was. Yeah. [00:57:45] Speaker B: That was the talk of Sundance. [00:57:47] Speaker A: Yeah. That was like, a lot of fun and thrilling and weird and like, even. I just. I don't know. I just saw the King of Comedy for the first time last week and I'm like, oh, this is genuinely funny and also like, super stressful. [00:57:59] Speaker C: And what are you guys scouring? YouTube. [00:58:02] Speaker A: You know, so what's going on? Yeah. [00:58:04] Speaker B: What are the meetings like? [00:58:08] Speaker A: Unfortunately, yeah. Like the. It's funny because everyone like, what was [00:58:13] Speaker B: the morning meeting like after Obsession backrooms opened? [00:58:16] Speaker C: It was probably nuts. [00:58:17] Speaker A: It was nuts. [00:58:18] Speaker B: I mean, everybody's mourning me. [00:58:20] Speaker A: But the thing is that I think is like funny about it is that I think people are self aware and they realize that everyone else is doing the same thing. Like, the same thing. Being watching backrooms and being like, we need to like go on YouTube and be like deep in trying to find like, everyone knows that everyone else is doing the same thing. Everyone like complains that it's stupid and that like, someone's gonna try to make a bad living. And yet everyone's like, but we still have to do it. And so the thing that I think is funny is like. And I've only worked in the industry like a few years, but I've already felt that I seen it so much where the Housemaid comes out. The housemaid's a book adaptation, right. With that movie. [00:59:05] Speaker C: Did so well. [00:59:06] Speaker A: Gangbusters. Yeah. So then it comes out and everyone's like, oh my God, we need to find the next like twisty female led thriller book. Like, we need to find this book. Go like scour all the books that would have come out of auction or like whatever Barnes and Noble obsession comes out. And it's. Everyone's like, oh my God, like, we need to be on YouTube finding like YouTube people. But like, it's. I. At the same time, it's been a [00:59:42] Speaker B: path for like, it's like Everybody. [00:59:44] Speaker A: Everyone's on YouTube. But like, my. My boyfriend's a horror director and he like got signed at CIA because he made short for When Annabelle Creation came out. There was like an Annabelle Creation contest. And like his mentor, David F. Sandberg was like a YouTube film and he [01:00:06] Speaker C: was like one of the first mentors. [01:00:08] Speaker B: David. [01:00:09] Speaker A: Well, yeah, and they, they basically like Julie and my boyfriend signed to the same like agent. It's Scott Henderson at CII and who raps David and. But like also a bunch of other. [01:00:21] Speaker C: It was like a legendary YouTube filmmaker, but also a filmmaker. Now it's absolutely crossing the mainstream. [01:00:26] Speaker A: Yeah, that's awesome. And, and so of course there's like many other people who have kind of come up that way. I guess Backrooms is a little different since it's like an adaptation of something from YouTube directly, but still a. Yeah. So YouTube, right? Yeah. But I think, like, honestly, it's kind of like you have to be doing everything all the time in terms of, [01:00:51] Speaker C: like, are folks still looking for books like Housemaid or is that complete? They are. Okay. I think, like, so it's not just like a couple weeks and it vanishes, you know? [01:01:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Because Verity is going to work in like a week from now, and then it's going to be back. [01:01:07] Speaker B: It's also just like a Colleen Hoover book and like, all those movies, right? [01:01:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:11] Speaker B: Will work. [01:01:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, it is. [01:01:14] Speaker B: I. I think the. The goal is to, like, how to be an original thinker and not. Not just, but, like, be at the trends before. [01:01:21] Speaker A: Right? [01:01:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:01:22] Speaker B: Like, how to completely. [01:01:23] Speaker A: And so this is where I made my joke. I told you, like, briefly about this, and I am somewhat joking, but it's like, okay, so some producers have their real niche and their thing. So, like, Scott Glasgow, manager. But you think of him for, like, short stories and particularly like, Reddit short stories. He started, like, you know, signing, like, writers who would write these short stories, but then also posting them on Reddit and they go super viral. And then you can get a big director attached to the short story because it's super quick to read. [01:01:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:01:56] Speaker A: And it has a cool idea. [01:01:58] Speaker B: And it's an open end. [01:01:59] Speaker A: And it's an open ending, so you can kind of mess with it and you can tell, like, the studio people, like, look, how many clicks this. I don't even know what it's upvotes. What is it on Reddit? Like, I don't know. It's viral on Reddit. But yeah, so there's like, that path, obviously, like the YouTube thing. But then I was like, making a joke now that now, because meta can publish fake news all they want. And there used to be. I don't even know the details of this. There used to be a rule on Facebook and Instagram and stuff that, like, it would be taken down if you just blindly, like, posted a fact that was, like, completely untrue. And then that now that's gone away. And so there's. Whenever I open my Instagram feed, I get a bunch of, like, studies that I'm like, there's no way this is a real study. Like, it's just like, 51% of young women, like, feel more powerful after traveling. And I'm like, what is this? Like, what is that? [01:03:01] Speaker B: But sorry, what? You interviewed all like, yeah, right. There's no, like, there's it doesn't cite anything. [01:03:08] Speaker A: Ridiculous. Yeah, it doesn't cite anything. But so now I've also gotten these, like, fake news stories, and I'm like, I think my new, like, my Scott Glass Gold method of finding things to produce is gonna be, like, obviously not just, like, making fake news, but, like, getting inspiration for ideas based on the crazy headlines I read in these Instagram stories that are not real. [01:03:31] Speaker C: Yeah, love that. [01:03:32] Speaker A: Yeah, my. Like, that's my, like, click answers. [01:03:35] Speaker C: The. The last question there. But that's awesome. [01:03:37] Speaker A: And, like, of course, with that, it's like, there's no author, so it's not, like, option. It's not real. You don't have to get someone's life rights. [01:03:44] Speaker C: Oh, I love that. [01:03:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And so we have a couple things we're developing with writers now. Like, one of Max. I know Max was on the podcast. One of his clients, Clarence Hammond Russell and I are developing, like, a relationship horror. Horror idea with. Based on, like, an article I saw that. I was like, wait, that would be a crazy. That's not true. But if that was true, that would be crazy. [01:04:07] Speaker B: Let's make it true. [01:04:08] Speaker A: Yeah. And so we have a couple things like that, and I think that I can kind of get into, too, like, because we're scrappier on the producer side and, like, we're probably, like, not gonna win the biggest hot spec that goes around. [01:04:21] Speaker B: Yeah, you have to develop it from [01:04:24] Speaker A: a lot of the things we do we develop from the ground up, which, honestly is, like, creatively much more fun. Fun anyway. And so, yeah, we have a couple of those things where, like, we'll have ideas and we pitch ideas to read. Like, you know, just writers we meet through scripts. I read, and I'm like, oh, we should meet this person. This person's really talented. Here's an idea that might be good for them. And if they respond and, like, the idea, we'll develop something and just do, like, outline after outline and then go through the first act and then, like, really break it down, go through the second act. Or, you know, sometimes, too, when we have generals, writers pitch us ideas that we love, and we're like, oh, yeah, we'll absolutely help you develop that. Which particularly, like, unfortunately, a lot of writers aren't working at the moment, and particularly, you know, younger, like, less established people or, like, you know, sometimes we've worked with people who are. Have done some TV stuff and now want to break into features because the feature market has been a bit, like, healthier in the past few years. So, yeah, a lot of the things we've kind of developed have just been through that, and, like, we're working on a really fun indie sports comedy I'm very excited about called the Chess Boxer, which is crazy, but Cooper Hoffman's attached to star in that. And, like, I think he's really great. And director Daniel Robbins, who we love, is directing that. And we met him through an ODA on our movie Open House that's set up at Sony. And so we watched, like, a ton of different comedy movies and really liked Daniel, but ultimately ended up hiring someone else on that movie, but had just met him, and we were like, what else do you have? And him and his co writer Zach had a, like, really rough draft of this. They had the first draft of this, and he said, we developed this. It was the first pass, but let me know. And he sent four other things, as often happens. And then we read it and we're like, wait, this is really interesting and cool. And then we did 20 drafts with them over the course of two months or something, which is obviously a testament to how hard they were working, because I just have to read the thing and give my notes and give my thoughts. But they're really grinding and putting it together. And now a company, Kinematics, was, which just made Josephine, that was at Sundance, and they did the Apprentice the year before. It's like producing that with us. [01:06:49] Speaker C: So cool. [01:06:50] Speaker A: We're gonna make that independently. And it's about this crazy sport called chess boxing, where you play two minutes of chess and then box for two minutes and go back and forth doing that until someone wins by knockout or checkmate. [01:07:00] Speaker B: And it's a real thing. It's a real sport. [01:07:02] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's a real thing. [01:07:02] Speaker B: It's one of your fake news. [01:07:04] Speaker A: It's not my fake news article. [01:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. You gotta be careful with that because then be are gonna be like, is it what is real? [01:07:11] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. No, I'm just like, yeah. You know, that's why we work in this industry, because we can just make up. Yeah. And just say whatever we want. But, yeah, I always feel like developing stuff from the ground up. [01:07:26] Speaker B: It's so fun. [01:07:27] Speaker A: The most probably, like, fun way to go about something. And then as a producer, you're baked into it, like they can't take you off. [01:07:32] Speaker B: Totally. Totally. Because your creative voice is been sort of weirdly infused into it. [01:07:37] Speaker A: Yeah, completely. [01:07:38] Speaker B: Well, we want to be wary of time. And we do ask a question. [01:07:42] Speaker A: Okay. [01:07:42] Speaker B: To every. A final question to every guest. What is the dream for you? And it's Intentionally vague. So take it how you want. [01:07:49] Speaker A: The dream for me was to be invited as a guest to the 5050 podcast, which, as previously stated, I never. I never thought it would happen. [01:07:57] Speaker B: I know. [01:07:58] Speaker A: Until post Oscar. [01:07:59] Speaker B: I know. I haven't told you how many times she's, like, begged. [01:08:02] Speaker C: Really? [01:08:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:04] Speaker A: Yeah, she's. I also would love to, like, actually go produce one of these movies that's like. Of course. Like, we have. We've sold some things that are in development, but development takes a really long time. And Russell's kind of said, like, we failed. If you haven't produced a movie by the time you're 30. And I'm like, oh, like, way before that, I'll be. [01:08:28] Speaker C: Hell yeah. [01:08:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:31] Speaker C: October 18th. [01:08:32] Speaker A: October 18th. I'll be there. Yeah, I'll be looking for the young talent. [01:08:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:08:36] Speaker B: Yep. [01:08:37] Speaker C: You're gonna have a. A nice five course meal put in front of you. [01:08:43] Speaker A: Yeah, it was. It was great last time you guys had, like, real catering. [01:08:48] Speaker C: Oh, I'm not talking about catering for the eyes. [01:08:51] Speaker A: Oh, no, I'm there for the food. [01:08:52] Speaker B: Okay. So there is also great food. [01:08:54] Speaker A: I'm sorry. [01:08:54] Speaker C: I'll do it for the food. That's terrible. Well, thank you so much for coming out. [01:09:00] Speaker A: Thank you guys. [01:09:00] Speaker B: I appreciate it. [01:09:01] Speaker C: What an awesome. You're the first one to say that to be. The dream is to be here. Yeah. Did you learn something? I'm like your mom. Did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging. Make sure you follow us at the 5050fest on Instagram and give us five stars because. Why not? Why not subscribe? Why not? You know why not. Okay, bye.