HOW TO: Foster Community on Set (w/ Joaquin Madrid Larranaga)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: And when tensions get high, as they have multiple times in various different situations, it's important to separate folks or take them aside, call them in instead of out, and sort of employ a lot of these strategies to one, get the temper down to a place where you can have a conversation, have a dialogue about what's happening, what's causing this, and then how can we fix it? And a lot of that is just listening to people is like, please tell me what's going on so that I can understand and I can help you. And a lot of times that calms people down because sort of the issue is people weren't listening to them. Nine times out of 10, it's a communication issue, is people not listening to each other. And so by providing that ear, that listening ear, you can really sort of take stock and then figuring out how you fix it. And a lot of that is just people first, like I said, is you checking in with them, being like, how can I help you? A lot of times it's because people aren't listening to them or helping them in the way that they need or aren't seeing them in the way that they need to be seen. And that takes care of most issues on set and off. [00:01:06] Speaker B: Welcome to the 5050 podcast, where we've made it our mission to nurture and empower the next generation of industry talent. Through this podcast, we expand the reach of the 5050 film festival by giving an exclusive peek behind the curtain into the creative and business sides of the entertainment industry. We sit down with folks from all corners of the biz, garnering educational insight into process, production and execution. This week we talk all things theater with Joaquin Madrid Ladenaga. From obtaining rights to a script, to managing hundreds of moving pieces in just a couple hours, to filling seats on opening night, this episode brings toggling the line between creative and business to the true forefront. Enjoy it if you want to just, like, introduce yourself and you know where you come from, where you're where you are right now, and yeah, we can go from there. [00:01:58] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. First of all, just thank you for having me on. This is really cool. I'm excited to be a part of this. I'd love to learn more about Luke, your story and 5050 and where that came from and sort of how you got here and how we all met and sort of your story together maybe also could be cool to learn. Yes. But yes. I'm Joaquin Madrid Lareniaga. I am from Albuquerque, New Mexico, but I am based in Los Angeles. I live in east la, Lincoln Heights and I do a lot of my work in East Los Angeles as well. I am a storyteller first and foremost, but I do theater. I do film mostly. Mostly independent stuff. We can talk a little bit more about my path through or lack of experience in industry and sort of what. What that is like. But yeah, I've been doing theater since I was five. I studied. I have a minor in theater from Occidental College, but have done various training programs and different things in California, in New Mexico, and currently work as a stage manager, professional stage manager at a theater in Boyle Heights. [00:03:07] Speaker B: Luke and I were talking about theater and the different positions you can have, and I think we're really going to get into the stage manager position because. And kind of, if we can compare it to things in film, because I know a lot of our audience does do stuff in film. And I think something that I've learned specifically, even in writing, there's a lot of lessons to be learned from theater that translate towards film. And I'm sure, like, Joaquin, you and I can nerd out about that a ton because I did also go to a program where I was doing both. And I want to talk about, you know, Oxy and your program over there and how you kind of found yourself growing from that and stepping out into the deep end of the real world. Because I know you from first and foremost from the improv group at Oxy. [00:03:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Fantastaprov. Yeah. [00:03:55] Speaker B: Yeah, There we go. Where my girlfriend's best friend Sheila was in the group and I would watch her and of course, like, love her, but I was like, who is this guy who is the. The driest, funniest on his toes person ever? And I feel like I, like, went up to you after one show. This was like, towards the end of our senior year, and I was. I just, like, shook her hand and I. I felt like I needed to not try and be, like, the most sleazy, like, industry person ever. Like, I was, like, recruiting you for. I was just wanting to be friends because I'm just like, yeah, so talk about the improv group. Talk about what other stuff you were doing, because I know it's not their traditional BFA program intensive sort of thing. It's a liberal arts school. So what did that look like for you? [00:04:46] Speaker A: Definitely. I'll say, too, that my schooling experience is in computer science, so I have a minor in theater, but my major was computer science. I was like many other creatives pressured by family and other people to. To get a real job. So I studied computer science and I was like, okay, I did that for a little bit. And I was like, this will be, this will be my money maker. So I can get on my feet and sort of do stuff that I want to do on the side, which was great. I feel like there's some pros and cons for that. I didn't have a lot of time for creative pursuits. I was working full time as a data analyst and doing that and then trying to find gigs on the side and training programs on the side. I think right out of this was. [00:05:34] Speaker C: After school you're saying? [00:05:35] Speaker A: Yeah, right out of school I was yeah, yeah, yeah. So I graduated with my BFA in computer science with a minor in theater and then was jumping in. This is completely not the answer to your question. Why did I skip school? [00:05:48] Speaker B: Continue. [00:05:49] Speaker A: But I, but yeah. So I was working, doing research and doing data analytics still for Occidental, for a professor of Occidental, which I still currently do. But now I'm a project coordinator, soon to be a research programmer. [00:06:04] Speaker B: There we go. Working your way out. [00:06:06] Speaker A: It's true, it's true. So that has been my day job since 2023, two years now. But I in school was trying to sort of figure out how I could be in industry. I was working background on a lot of music videos. I was doing stud short films. I was trying to just find my way in the way that so many people do. This is mostly in film. And my theater path during school was I was just auditioning for the shows that Oxy did. I was cast in one senior year, but on the side also doing Fantastaprof. I was doing sketch comedy as well in the sketch comedy troupe and really just trying to get my hands in whatever I could. And then when I graduated I was sort of like there was no opportunity for clubs, for sketch comedy, for improv or any of that. So that sort of fell to the wayside and I was trying to figure out how I could get into industry and applying for all sorts of things and. But I think it's important to note that I was trying to get into film industry but I didn't study film at all. I don't have a strong film educational background. I had done a couple of programs when I was in like high school. I had done home movies and things. So I was pretty much self taught. But when I was applying to a lot of these industry positions, I didn't go to school for it, I didn't have the resume for it. And so I wasn't getting anything and I Was sort of like, well, damn, I didn't. Like I did. This is not what I studied. This isn't. There was no path forward in that way. So I had sort of pivoted and I was like, well, maybe I could do like a combination of computer science and art. And so I was, I was applying for like event space. [00:07:49] Speaker C: What does that entail? Yeah, what is that? What did that look like going into that? Like how do you mix? Because that sounds super interesting. [00:07:56] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I thought I wanted to do. Coming out I was sort of grasping at straws, sort of being like, what do I have experience in and how can I translate this sort of artistic side? So I was looking at a lot of like projection based things, a lot of installation production companies. Rafiq Anandahl, who is an amazing computer science artist, he uses neural networks to sort of create these mystifying, shape shifting, morphing visuals that I thought were really cool. And so I was trying to work with him for a little bit. He had done a lot of stuff on. He's most known, I think for productions he did on the side of the Walt Disney Concert hall in la. He did like this series of really cool projections. Love his work. He's amazing. That's so cool. My cousin works for Meow Wolf. I don't know if you guys are familiar. Yeah, they do really cool stuff. He's their lead. I want to say his title is creative designer but he's in charge of all things creative. There was really cool. So I was trying to get in with them, trying to figure out like how can I leverage this computer science background with some of the arts. But at the end of the day so. And as well I was trying to build up my portfolio for that. [00:09:07] Speaker B: Yeah, you're just, you're kind of just trying to like fit puzzle pieces. You're like, I have this shape and I'm trying to, trying to put it into various things in the industry. And it's hard, right, like when you don't have that education specifically like or in or connection or whatever it is like it is very, very hard. So like I think that's an incredibly relatable thing. Especially like as an artist with a different training outside of the industry. So please continue. This is very interesting. [00:09:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that was sort of the first three to six months out of college. I was trying to just figure out I had this job that it was fine but it wasn't really what I wanted to do. And just trying to throw myself out there in so many different areas and ways, which I think, like you said, is related. Well, we were just trying to get footing and a truly very competitive industry. [00:09:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:00] Speaker C: What was the goal coming out? Because you said it like you. You had a goal. Like, what was that specific goal coming out of school, like, the ideal job? What was that gonna be? [00:10:11] Speaker A: I think one. I was trying to figure that out. I think that I was trying to figure out what the goal was, but. [00:10:19] Speaker C: I was it more so a broad. Like, just foot in the door. Start, like, get. Get near or adjacent as close as you can to the film industry, if. [00:10:27] Speaker A: Not in it at the time. Yes. I think that I, before college, thought that I wanted to. I was really into stunts. I wanted to be a stunt coordinator. And then after that, I wanted to do special effects and do, like, explosions and things. [00:10:43] Speaker B: Okay, hold up for a second. Before college, you were. You wanted to get into stunts. So, like, yeah, this is in high school. You're flipping cars. What are you. What are you doing in high school that leads you. That leads you to wanting to be a stunt coordinator? [00:10:58] Speaker A: Well, I just would watch, as I'm sure so many people did, just, like, the special features on all the DVDs. And. And most of it was just, like, stunt people and green screen. All that I could see before being on set from special features was like, this is on my favorite action movies. And I was like, that's what I wanted to do. I was laser focused. I didn't have a path, but that was the goal that I had set for myself. [00:11:21] Speaker B: Did that ever lend your. I know you did a lot of sketch comedy and improv. Did that ever get into sketch comedy and improv? The stunts. Either live stunts or maybe a sketch about a bunch of stunt coordinators having to, you know, not break a glass at a nice dinner or something like that. I don't know. [00:11:40] Speaker A: I'm just. [00:11:41] Speaker B: That's. That's a pitch. [00:11:42] Speaker A: I think that that would be a good idea. I think we should write that sketch. I'm trying to remember because I feel like at college at that point, I was more stunned on director, producer. So probably at some point in high school, I had done some program, and I was like, okay, stunting is actually really hard, and I can't do it. Probably something that happened at some point. I do remember doing a lot of stuff with green Screen. I taught myself how to use Camtasia studios. Probably no one knows what that is, but that's what I was working with in high school. [00:12:15] Speaker B: But you kind of always had this, like, leaning towards the Technical elements of things, which led you to doing computer science with a minor in theater. And then, so you're out of college and you're looking for things that kind of fit your skill set, right? [00:12:31] Speaker A: And I think, too, I had taken a couple of, like, After Effects classes in college and Premiere Pro, and so I knew sort of my way around sort of these tools that people are using. But I always felt like I. When I graduated, I pitched sort of being like, well, maybe I was, like, a software developer for these companies. Like, maybe I work for Premiere, like, do something in software. But I was. I had an internship working for the Department of Defense doing research and development, and I was like, I don't like writing code. I don't like sitting behind a computer all day. I think I'm good at it, but I don't. I think, like, people is really, like, where I want to be. And the space that gives me energy and excitement is talking with people and working with them and figuring out what makes them tick and writing stories that inspire people and. And make them think. And that was something I didn't figure out until probably a year out of school after trying all of these things and trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And now I think I've realized it's people. [00:13:38] Speaker C: Like I said, what was that moment, if there was one, where you're just like, did you just wake up one day and you're like people? Or was it you're sitting in a dark basement coding by yourself and it's like, no, I really do miss. Or I was on stage and it all made sense. What was that moment? [00:13:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a lot of different things. I think it was me being disillusioned with everything that I was doing, trying to come back and be like, well, what do I actually like about this? Which parts did I enjoy? That summer, right out of school, I was really fortunate to get a first ad gig on a. On an indie short. [00:14:16] Speaker C: Can you talk about that? Like, how did you. How did that come to be? [00:14:20] Speaker A: Yeah, it was. It was really just like the stars aligning. My friend Robert from Occidental, Shout Out Robert Sturtevant. He's amazing. He has a. He works with LEGO a lot. Check him out. He has really cool stuff. He had gotten this through a different connection, and he was, like, working for a first ad. I had done a couple of student shorts with Robert in school, and so he reached out. He was like, hey, they're looking for a second ad. Would you be interested in submitting? I was like, yes, I would love to. They never found a first ad, so I was promoted from second AD to first. And, yeah, it was a great opportunity. I got to meet a lot of really cool people. Um, a lot of really cool people in the industry. Um, but I think that that was also the moment where I was like, okay, I don't want to be an industry. I want to be in indie filmmaking. Because there's no creative control in industry unless you're, like, at the top, which. [00:15:13] Speaker B: Is like, so far in this project where you were first ad, you felt like there wasn't that creative control. [00:15:21] Speaker A: No, not too. [00:15:22] Speaker B: Was there a bigger. Was there a bigger company funding it? Is that why? [00:15:26] Speaker A: No. As I'm sure you know, first AD doesn't have a lot of creative control in films. And I. It was just cool to. I would like in 1st AD to stage management. So I have a lot of experience in stage management, and that's why I felt like I could do first ad. That was my first time doing first ad. First and only time. I think, yeah, I'd love to do more, but I learned a lot. It was great. And I had a lot of people come up to me and be like, you're really good at this. You should do this. And I was like, okay, like, maybe this is an opportunity to build something and put something more in my portfolio and think about in the future. But as I was doing it, it was a lot of people managing. It was a lot of time scheduling, a lot of logistics, which I love. No creative control. No creative. Sometimes the director would be like, oh, I need your input on this. Or like, something that was few and far between, very rare. She had a vision, and I was really excited to support her vision. [00:16:21] Speaker B: I mean, it depends on the director, right? [00:16:24] Speaker A: It's true. [00:16:25] Speaker B: Different directors, different leaders are relying on different people. [00:16:28] Speaker A: Definitely. And I feel like, too, in theater as well, sometimes it depends on the structure of the production staff, the production team. But sometimes your director will come to you as a stage manager and be like, hey, like, I need your thoughts. A lot of times the stage manager is sort of the voice of the tech of the technical director in the room. So they offer a lot of insights on tech and a lot of things. So a lot of times directors will ask about that. But at the end of the day, you're really just supporting the director's vision, which is a role that I love. But I think recently I'm trying to work on creating a lot of my own stuff, which is why I created my production company. I'm Calling it a production company now, I realized we might be more of a creative agency. So I'm trying to figure out how we're shifting and sort of rediscovering as the company grows, what we really are. As of right now, I'll say production. [00:17:19] Speaker C: Company, maybe creative in your eyes. How does a production company kind of shift to a creative agency? What is in your. Like, what is the difference in your head? [00:17:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it depends on sort of the types of things that we're looking to do. I feel like production company is sort of either developing an idea or getting an idea and making it happen. I feel like a creative agency is on the other side of maybe more developing things. Maybe supporting folks from a creative standpoint. Has more of an eye for marketing and distribution down the road and sort of helping. [00:17:52] Speaker B: Providing a specific skill set. [00:17:55] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:17:55] Speaker B: Service. Yeah. Interesting. [00:17:57] Speaker A: Sort of focused on creative. [00:18:00] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. You know, it's so funny because I work a lot in podcasts, obviously, and you can call your company whatever because there are companies who are production companies who have a whole ad arm, you know, who just focus on advertising. So it's, you know, even in mainstream entertainment, it's really an all encompassing term, Will, that, you know, is this production company film oriented, theater oriented, Some combination. [00:18:28] Speaker A: Now It's a combination. It started off being film oriented, but there was a lull. Let's see. So I. So in sort of the timeline of things I did that first ad, I was doing a lot of film work for about a year. I was also doing a lot of theater work in my head. I was doing a lot of film. I was doing both. [00:18:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like you've always been doing both kind of simultaneously from everyone, you know, when we've had our check ins, it seems like you're always up to a million things and you're still working your, you know, your data job, your research job. So it's like, you know, we're all doing a million things. [00:19:00] Speaker A: That's true. That's true. It's true. I had started the production company to do film and I was trying to do indie shorts, indie features. I didn't have an eye for documentary. Recently, I've been doing a lot of documentary. That seems to be something that I'm finding more interest in. And then most recently, my friend pitched a play that she wanted to put on. She had written. Her name is Ella Price. She's amazing. Love her. And she was sort of like, hey, can you help? And I was like, yes, I can. Let's throw it and see if we can figure out a way to put my production company into it, or I'll just help out as an associate producer. So right now I'm sort of on my end figuring out what it looks like to produce through the company. What it looks like to produce just by myself and sort of try to figure out how to build that arm. I'm really interested in turning the production company into an educational pipeline. Right now. We don't have the infrastructure for that. I'm looking for grants and things and hiring. Looking to hire folks to build that arm. And so I'm really interested to see how theater can fit into that. But as of right now, we're primarily film focused. [00:20:13] Speaker B: That's really cool. [00:20:14] Speaker C: I. [00:20:15] Speaker B: It sounds like there's a lot of different goals with this company. And I think one thing that I know you have that Luke and I talk about is purpose and intention with it and kind of a social goal behind the company. So I would love to get into kind of your views on where you see this company fitting in into the industry from like a social and educational element. Like, is it about representation? Is it about seeing stories that you haven't seen before and kind of what in your life has led you to finding that purpose? [00:20:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it is a lot about representation, but I think first and foremost it's about inclusion and equity. I think that so many times I've seen films that are sort of showcasing diversity in the film, and the crew doesn't necessarily reflect that. I feel like sort of the mission and vision of this company is to sort of holistically figure out how can we create this welcoming, inviting space in a way that is disrupting industry norms so that we can create a product that every single person on that crew is excited to be a part of and is proud of and would love to come back for, which is something that a lot of production companies say I want to do. Probably a lot of people are doing it, but I think maybe the piece that. That, I mean, apart. Go ahead. [00:21:41] Speaker B: So I was just going to say, I think behind the scenes is a whole other thing that you don't really think about. You know, like UCLA does that study on. On who's going to movies and who's in the movies. But they don't necessarily do those studies on who's behind the scenes and who's on cruise. And, you know, I see. Especially with people below the line, right. Like, there are. There are now initiatives with writers rooms and representation and gender equity and things like that. But crew members is a huge thing that I know you're, you know, you're wanting to get into. [00:22:12] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think this. This sort of the Inception was that indie film, and it could have been that. That. I feel like it was pretty representative. I loved the diversity that I saw in that crew, but I also felt like there was a very clear division between cast and crew and also just division within departments that I was really interested in dismantling that. And I. And I wanted people to. To chat and connect. And especially in our sort of young, emerging professional world of like, we're trying to network, we're trying to do all these things. Some people are really good at doing that, but some people are. Are not as good. And I wanted to sort of create this forum of like, hey, we're going to do an icebreaker every day before we shoot where everyone gets to know each other a little bit and sort of build that time into the schedule and that effort and. And figure out a way so that everyone could get to know each other and sort of start to figure out who are the people on set that I want to become friends with, that I want to network with, that I want to work with again, and fostering that on the set, which is something that happens a lot in theater. I feel like some of that is coming from theater. [00:23:18] Speaker B: I was going to say this is sounding very theater to me. And it's like, is that like a. [00:23:22] Speaker C: Common theater, like an activity before or something? You do those. Those icebreaker games? [00:23:28] Speaker A: Yeah, lots of theater games. I feel like that was my favorite part of theater was doing the theater games. Growing up and getting to just like, be silly and be yourself with a group of people who are also being silly and being themselves. It was great role models. It was good to get to know people, and it just set you up for success for whatever you were working on that day. And it's not something that's done on film set for a variety of reasons. And I feel like I can get behind a lot of those reasons. [00:23:54] Speaker C: Have you found success with these sort of icebreaker activities before the day kind of thing on set? Like, are you finding these departments are more communicative all of a sudden? Or what Are you seeing more friendships long term after the fact? [00:24:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think. And I wouldn't put it so much on the icebreaker. I think that's a part of it. I think part of it is just really choosing people who are eager to build that community. I think first and foremost, and I think that I've been really fortunate to Have a great network of people who sort of work, are interested in building community, interested in uplifting others, and by bringing them onto set, they continue to foster that. I think, to an extent. Yes. Doing the icebergs and having just like a zoom check in meeting where everyone introduces themselves as a fun fact goes a long way. [00:24:48] Speaker C: Is this you as a producer? Is this you as a director on your project? Like, what role are you playing here? [00:24:55] Speaker A: This is me as an executive producer in these projects. Yeah. [00:25:02] Speaker B: So it's so funny because Luke runs this film festival. And Luke, if you want to talk about the last festival and the kind of the social elements that went into that, because I see there's a clear comparison here with the zoom before and things like that. [00:25:19] Speaker C: Totally. I mean, I just think communication as a whole does so much and opportunities for people just to be themselves and to meet each other. And like, on set, obviously, on the day everyone has their jobs and everyone is locked in and needs to be, because a production is no easy feat, and completing that is a whole nother thing in itself. And so there. There isn't much time for, yes, we all like to say, oh, go on set and have fun. But it's like, okay, this is a job. Like, we. We have a common goal here, and the fun is getting this thing done on time, and then you can have fun after. But I think there really is something to starting things off and setting that precedent with, yeah, like you said, an icebreaker, because it gives permission to everyone on set to really be like, oh, it's okay to go talk to this other department over here. And all of a sudden I know this person's name, and I can say, oh, that was so funny this morning. Like, at the festival, we have two halves of the night. The first half is the screenings portion, and then the second half is, like, all about conversation. And immediately you exit the theater and it's like, okay, I don't know who Wyatt is, but I know we both just saw the same seven films, and so we can automatically say, hey, what was your favorite film? And boom, you have a conversation, there's food, the whole thing. So it's. It definitely goes a long way instead of just not having any opportunity for something like that. [00:26:54] Speaker B: And I think there's also a common pushback to what you guys would be saying was that time is money. And as Luke said, the fun is kind of getting it done on time. Time is such a big thing on film sets. But I would actually argue from experience that the more communication you facilitate on set, the Better problem solving is. The less time that takes, the more productive you can, actually. Especially if you all see each other as equals on film sets. Because we know there is a power issue in Hollywood, like a big issue with hierarchy and people above the line and below the line and the way people see each other and to kind of move that around and have, you know, whatever. A stagehand, not a stagehand. I'm being very theater right now, but like a grip, talking with, you know, one of the lead actors about, you know, what they did yesterday, yesterday and a funny thing that happened. You know, things like that. Like that can be so helpful because every. Suddenly everybody knows each other's names and you're even more bonded by the end of the thing and you want to work with each other again and maybe an idea comes out of something. So it's really like, I applaud what you're doing and I want to. I want to kind of get into theater because obviously these are very like theater oriented skills. Like, in my experience in theater, like, the memories to me are not performing, but it's behind, you know, backstage during the eighth hour of rehearsals when it's 9pm and you're all exhausted and you're just like messing around. And you know, obviously with theater you have rehearsal time, which is a very valuable thing. But I want to talk about, like, your experience in theater and how you have combined your time with theater and film and, you know, what sort of values you carry with you from theater. [00:28:48] Speaker A: Like I said, I had been doing theater since I was 5. I was a shy child and my parents were like, theater will open you up. [00:28:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:59] Speaker A: Which I think was true to an extent and sort of started that trajectory. I think one of the things I love about theater is the community. And you really, you really become a family with each production that you do. I think that's very true. And when I was starting to be on film sets, I was like, wait, like, where is that happening? And it didn't seem like it was happening. And so I was doing a lot of thinking about, like, how do I bring that? How do I foster this community? How do I foster this family? And part of it is, like you said, Wyatt, is that you just have so much more time with each other in a theater. In the theater, you're rehearsing for four weeks to do one thing, and then you do that thing for another four to six weeks or however long the run is. And. And film is just so much different. You do, you're doing one, you're doing your Shot list every day, and you move on to something else the next day. Every hour is completely different. But there are also, like, feature films that take 10 to 12 days that have some sort of that time to get to know people on set and get to know these people. And so I was trying to figure out, how do we bring. How do we foster that sense of community? How do we bring these things that I love about theater into film? And I think part of it is fostering that sense of community. Part of it is figuring out how to foster sense of community from one film to the next. Are you hiring the same people that you love to work with that are fostering this sense of community? Maybe. Are you figuring out maybe, like, a core four department heads that are committed to this and are going to do it at everything that you work on? If you're hiring new folks, are you sort of creating this sort of sense of ground rules and commonalities that you talk about and make sure that there is, like, a sense of ways to build community on set? These are things that I'm trying to sort of standardize for each production so that we continue to learn and grow instead of starting from scratch every time. And so I think that that is a big tenet of the production company is figuring out how to do that. And not just like me sitting in a room by myself brainstorming, but trying to involve every single person who's on product and sort of this dialogue of brainstorming of like, hey, like, what is working? What worked for you on set? What didn't work? How can we make it better? After every production that I do, I'm always. I'm shifting back into film, I feel like. But after every production I do, I sit down with my department heads, with the producers, and sort of be like, hey, like, what worked? What didn't work? What can be better? And I think that that dialogue is really important. [00:31:36] Speaker B: It's so important, and it's so forgotten on film sets specifically, like, it is so just, you know, you. Even professional actors talk about how you feel so close with people, and then once those 30 days are done, you just never, like, you say you're gonna, you know, see them for dinner the next week, and then that doesn't happen, and you just kind of never talk again. So I think that facilitating that community is so, so important. I'm curious, you know, because obviously there's been roadblocks, I'm sure, with that sort of thing. Like, what. What happens when a set is intense and everybody's stressed and like, you know, if you are, you know, in a position where it is, you are putting it on yourself to solve that problem or, you know, ease that, that hardness, like how does that, how does that work? And you know, could you maybe provide some sort of like example or something where, where that's happened and you found that you need to kind of step up or what does that look like? [00:32:37] Speaker A: Yeah, these are both high stress industries for every single person on set in the theater. High stress. And I think sort of the biggest thing that I try to carry with myself and my work is a sense of calmness and collectedness and professionalism. Those three things will get you far. And also just being not afraid to self regulate, it's very stressful. And when you are not taking care of yourself and not regulating that stress, that is when bad things happen, that is when get hurt, that is when. [00:33:10] Speaker B: Tempers get high, you lash out on other people. It's. [00:33:13] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And I think sort of laying that and coming back to like the ground rules of being like, we are here in a space to do this thing and we know that this is a possibility. So if you feel yourself doing this, sort of take a step back or take some breaths or let me know, let someone know in production so that we can help you regulate this or figure out how to get past this. I feel like number one thing on set in all the positions that I've been in is people first, safety first. And so I think that especially in a stage managerial role, I am looking out for the actors, I'm looking out for the designers. And when tensions get high, as they have multiple times in various different situations, it's important to separate folks or take them aside, call them in instead of out, and sort of employ a lot of these strategies to one, get, get the temper down, sort of set the cooling, bring them down to a set to a. To a place where you can have a conversation, have a dialogue about what's happening, what's causing this, and then how can we fix it. And a lot of that is just listening to people is like, like, please tell me what's going on so that I can understand and I can help you. And a lot of times that calms people down because sort of the issue is people weren't listening to them. Nine times out of ten is a communication issue is people not listening to each other. And so by providing that EAS that listening ear, you can really sort of take stock and then figuring out how you fix it. And a lot of that is just people first is Like I said, is you checking in with them, being like, how can I help you? A lot of times it's because people aren't listening to them or helping them in the way that they aren't seeing them in the way that they need to be seen. And that takes care of most issues on set and off. [00:34:56] Speaker C: And you learn this all from computer science? [00:35:01] Speaker B: Yeah, you learn that all in computer science, right? [00:35:03] Speaker A: Right. Yeah, yeah, in my DNA class. [00:35:06] Speaker C: But seriously, though, like, who taught you this? Like, was this just a learned experience? Like, what? It's. Because it's really. This is, like, this is really impressive because I. I have yet to meet producers or ads that have this sense of awareness and people skills. To be like, just thinking about this at such a high level as you are, you know, in such simple terms too, which I love. I love simplicity. [00:35:36] Speaker A: Part of it was. Was leadership trainings that I did in high school. But I think a lot of it was just being on set and being around people. And I think that at heart, I'm a problem solver. And I think on set it became really clear that people are probably the biggest problems to solve. And so trying to figuring out, like, what. [00:35:56] Speaker B: That's our clip right there. We got it. We got it, Lu. [00:36:01] Speaker A: You're welcome. That. Trying to figure out how, how, how can I solve that? And it's. And it's understanding people, figuring out how they tick. In these leadership camps that I did, it was. It was all about humility, I think, and sort of like, even though you were in this position of power, you can't get people to fault. You can't be a good leader if you don't understand the people around you and the people that you're leading. You have to be able to listen is a big thing. I'm trying to figure out what else they taught me then, but I also feel like I forget his name. There was a speaker that came to my high school, and he turned the world on its head for me. He was a great speaker, but also was talking about all of these things that I'm trying to think of an example. This one is maybe gross and he might cut it, but he would be like, one of the things that stuck with me. He would be like, do you walk into a bathroom and you're looking for a stall to use? And if there's one, if someone, like, didn't flush the toilet, are you gonna go to the next one? Or are you gonna flush the toilet so that the next person doesn't have to have to deal with that? You're just like quips like that you're. [00:37:14] Speaker B: Not gonna flush the toilet. [00:37:15] Speaker A: I'm probably not, but like, things like. [00:37:17] Speaker C: That, where he was like, what does he get? What is the. Like just like, like think out for. [00:37:24] Speaker A: The next person, look for the next person, think for the other guy. It's not. Stop being so selfish. I think really was the, was the crux of a lot of the things that he did. Yeah, I was trying to think of a better one. [00:37:34] Speaker B: No, that stuck with me. Great. Yeah, that's really interesting. I. I don't know if there's a better example. Yeah, you, you really. So how did that sort of change your mindset they're on going forward of like, I need to constantly be thinking about other people and how do you think about yourself? Because that's really important too. [00:37:57] Speaker A: Yeah. I think right out of school, as I was getting into these gigs, I was trying to think about other people first and foremost. And as you said, it was, it was putting a drain on myself. I was so tired. I. This short film that I did was a six day shoot. And after day two, I was like, I hate this. I don't want to do this anymore. [00:38:18] Speaker C: How many pages was that short? [00:38:20] Speaker A: It was 28. So it was, wow, just make a. [00:38:26] Speaker C: Pilot or make a feature. [00:38:27] Speaker A: Right, right. And I have lots of thoughts about that. Yes, it was a proof of concept, but it was. Yeah, yeah, we can talk all day about why that was wrong and how we think that it should have been cut down and all of these things. [00:38:41] Speaker B: But you got to learn some way, you know? And you got to learn by just doing it, I think. Yeah, exactly. [00:38:49] Speaker A: That was the one that I was first AD on. But I was like, these are, these are. And every day was, was 10 to 12 hours. And I. And I was first AD high pressure position, high, high stakes. And I was like, a lot of. [00:39:01] Speaker B: People are relying on you. A lot of people are relying on you. [00:39:03] Speaker A: And it was my first time doing AD and I was like, like, I like it. I was truly thrust into, into a, an environment that I didn't have a lot of experience in. But I really value a lot of the producers taking me aside and sort of being like, hey, from experience, here are some ways you can prove. And I love that. And at first I was, I was really defensive, but at the end of the day it was like, okay, like we're all working towards the common goal. I was able to listen to them, I was able to take the things that they said and implement them. [00:39:34] Speaker B: Good for you. [00:39:35] Speaker A: And that is something that I learned from being on both sides, I think, of being on the producer side and being the side of taking the. Taking the constructive criticism. [00:39:48] Speaker C: I just want to. Because we. Why didn't I talk a lot about the art of I guess, taking criticism, you know. Yeah, I would love to dig into that and kind of, you know, being on both sides as you are both business and creative and giving and taking criticism, you know, and it's like I wonder how you approach giving criticism now because you can speak the creatives language, but you could also speak the business language and you can see both sides as you can just as a human, it seems like, because you do see things in a very unique way. I. Yeah, I would love to have you speak about that. [00:40:32] Speaker A: Give. [00:40:32] Speaker B: Give Luke criticism right now is what he's asking. [00:40:35] Speaker C: Yeah, give me criticism. [00:40:36] Speaker A: Well, for one, I think that everyone's different and I think knowing that like never, you're never going to have the same exact conversation about criticism with. With this, with a different person and I think sort of trying to understand. I. If I was more into like thinking about how to like, like the pedagogy of giving criticism, I probably would have like a four step plan. And like these are the different archetypes of like the seven different people that you'll encounter on set. And here's how you like deal with. [00:41:07] Speaker B: Every single person based on their personality type. Communicating. [00:41:11] Speaker A: Exactly. But I think because I haven't done a lot of research into that, I think just like meeting the person. [00:41:16] Speaker C: So what are, what are the four? What are the four? [00:41:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't have that quick sound bite, but I think sort of thinking about like, hey, is this person, have they responded well to criticism in the past? Are they one? To sort of break down at any stone of criticism then you have to sort of approach it with a lot of tact and a lot of gracefulness and a lot of support for them. I think with anyone talking about, I had learned sort of like the sandwich method of like something you like, the criticism and something else that you like sort of sandwiching in between those two threes. Two things is always a great place to start. But I always start just with like, especially if I'm in a group setting and a lot of people are giving a lot of criticism. I love to just sit back and give praise because they're not hearing enough of it. And there are so many amazing and great things about the things that we're criticizing that often gets lost. And it's so hard being a creative when you're getting all of this criticism and you don't know what you're doing. [00:42:16] Speaker B: Well, because you put yourself out there and you're vulnerable, you know, and then for you to hear anything bad about that. But it's like, I just put so much work into this and I just like I'm doing something that not many humans do, which is showing my heart to you, you know, and then you're like, this is not good enough or whatever. So it's. I definitely understand that as someone who is on the side of an actor sometimes and a writer and getting feedback and. And I think luckily the more that you receive criticism, the better you are at dealing with that. But. Yeah, what does it look like? Has there been any situations where someone hasn't reacted well to criticism or you've had a particularly challenging situation? [00:42:59] Speaker A: Yeah, especially in theater. I think that it's hard, especially once you get into. So in theater it's interesting because you have this rehearsal process and the director is there. [00:43:09] Speaker C: Can we talk about theater? Because I don't know. [00:43:11] Speaker A: Yes. [00:43:12] Speaker C: I don't know. You guys both are saying words and like role. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I, I like all the roles. Like what, what is. What goes into this? So when you're talking about this, just act like you're talking to a five year old kind of. [00:43:27] Speaker A: I'll do a crash course for like theater from start to finish, which is. And, and I. This is a crash course. So there are many different types of theater. There are many different types of theaters. I'll talk about the 99th seat, the 99 seat theater in LA. I don't know many other places that have 99 seat theaters. You could do a whole podcast just about talking about theater. But there's a specific type of theater I'm not gonna really talk about too much, like what it means and all these things. If you have questions, let me know. I'm gonna talk about 99 seat theater in LA. There are many. Basically you have the artistic director of the theater. They are sort of like the CEO of the production company. They're in charge of everything that goes on underneath the theater. They schedule everything. They're the ones who decide what sort of shows are going up. Sort of the face of the theater. They will oftentimes pull plays that already exist. Sometimes they will commission new playwrights to write new plays. This is step one, figure out what play you're going to do. Step two is you hire the creative team. You're gonna find your director, you're gonna find Your stage manager, usually you have a technical director which is in charge of all technical pieces. They know everything about lights, everything about sound, everything about sound. [00:44:41] Speaker B: This is for each project, right? [00:44:43] Speaker A: This is for each project. [00:44:44] Speaker B: Each individual project, for the most part, will have different people. Or, you know, that's true. [00:44:49] Speaker A: Usually the technical director is on staff at the theater. They work on every single production, and they know the theater really well. Got it. Because it's a physical space that the shows go up in, and they know the ins and outs. They're usually the ones who have put everything together. They've set it up the way they like. They know how to run it. But you'll hire your director, your stage manager. Sometimes you'll hire the producers to come on board. With these smaller shows, it's less likely that you'll have an additional producer. And sort of the difference is you have sort of like theater staff who are your, like, marketing person, social media people in house people in house people, box office staff. They work on. They work for the theater on every single production. And then you have, like Wyatt was saying was people you're hiring for the specific production itself. The production staff, which are all your designers, your costume designer, your scenic designer, your props designer, your director and your stage manager will all be sort of the production staff or the specific production. Okay, you've hired all these people. You figured out what script you're going to do, and then you. [00:45:51] Speaker C: Yeah, so when it comes to the actual script, play wise, are you finding, like, screen. Like, are you saying, hey, Wyatt, what scripts do you have? Or like. Or are you finding like, Romeo and Juliet? And it's, we're gonna do this. [00:46:07] Speaker A: So you'll usually license the rights from people like Samuel French or Dramatis Play Services. I think there were three or four places that have rights to a bunch of different scripts. And so you sort of figure out, okay, what script do I want? And who is selling the rights to that script? And then you have to go and buy the rights. You have to buy the licenses for all of these different things. It's usually you buy it, you have to set your schedule, and you buy it for a specific amount of nights. And they usually ask questions like, how much are you selling tickets for? Like, how much are these things? And they'll license you the rights to use that script. [00:46:36] Speaker C: Is that just like a website or do you need, like an attorney? Like, what is that process? [00:46:41] Speaker A: Go through the website? It depends on the show. So, for example, Prince of Egypt, the musical just was being licensed by mti, which does Most of the musicals, musical theatrics, International Musical Theater International, something like that. And it's really big. It has never been offered before, but it is a well known musical that has been playing for a long time. And so people are really eager to get the rights to it. And so with that one, it'll be a long time and really hard to get the rights. I'm really excited. I think I can announce, announce this. Casa0101, the theater that I work for, just got the rights to do it either end of this year or early next. We're really excited. We're going to be one of the first theaters ever besides like Broadway theaters, to put on Prison of Egypt. It should be really big. We're very excited. But with that one, it was a long process about you put the bid in and then sort of MTI sort of decides, hey, are there any. Is there anyone around you who has competing bids or is interested in putting on this play? One thing about licensing the player musical is you are guaranteed within a certain mile radius that no other theater around you is putting on that play. Which is really cool. And that's part of the reason why they license it. I think on some websites you can tell them, hey, I don't want anyone in 100 miles, I don't want anyone in 500 miles. And they'll sort of come back to you with a counter offer, sort of decide. That is probably where a little bit of back and forth happens. But if you're a small theater and you just want to put something in and you want a lesser known play, it's usually pretty fast. Romeo and Juliet, you don't have to license because it's free. Things that are older, most Shakespeare are free and they're. And they're out there. There are a lot of other older plays I want to say, like Waiting for Godot, a lot of Tennessee Williams stuff I want to say is open source. That's the wrong term. That's computer science. Open. Open for people to you. Yes. Shall I move on to production? [00:48:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:36] Speaker C: So what about. And maybe we get into this after. Yeah, but like if Wyatt were to write an original script. [00:48:44] Speaker A: So it depends if you have a script that you're trying to pitch to other theater, to other theaters. A lot of times you. Let's see, for us, we probably do a lot of cold emailing. Sometimes you'll have an agent, you'll have a theatrical playwright agent who will help you get in contact with different theaters who might be interested in producing your stuff. If you're trying to do it on your own. I would say trying to find smaller 99 seat theaters around you or whose. [00:49:11] Speaker B: Missions align with the mission of your play. [00:49:16] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. And trying to figure out what sort of themes is the artistic director interested in putting up and does it align with yours and can you pitch it? A lot of times, especially when you're starting out, it's very easy to sort of pitch the show and be like, hey, this aligns with your mission. We could do it for free. You don't have to pay me. This is an educational opportunity. We'd love to get it out. Nine times out of ten they'll say yes. It's harder if you're trying to get someone to buy your script and pay you for your work just because there's not a lot of money in theater. There's not a lot of money for new playwrights in theater. New Play Exchange is a website. You can put up your play for free. People read plays and you can filter by keyword. So it's very easy for people to discover you that way. Unfortunately, you won't get paid. It's a free forum, but that's a great way to meet agents, to meet other people, to find other folks who are doing similar work as you. If you are trying to sell a script, you'll probably want to do a lot of staged readings before you sort of package up this, this deal. You want to do a lot of work to draft and redraft and get feedback on it before you're trying to option that script. But once you do, when you're starting, you'll probably want an agent. The agent will know more than me about how to get it in the door. [00:50:36] Speaker C: Okay, so the team you got to script the team script the team. [00:50:40] Speaker A: Now you're going to try to cast cast it. So you'll hold auditions at some point. You'll probably talk with your designers and sort of figure out you'll probably have some production meetings in there. But you're going to cast for Hunchback. We hunch back. I just did it at Casa 0101. It was great. I loved was actually my first musical professional gig. I had done musicals in college and high school. It was my first music professional gig. It was really cool. I learned a lot. But we casted using actors access which also you use film. They also did some Facebook, some just like cold emailing to their listservsky but we had over the numbers escaping me. Over a thousand people submit for 22 roles. Not what I was expecting. I Don't think anyone's expecting that. And so that really was the director sort of looking at resumes, looking at headshots and sort of narrowing it down. He narrowed it down. We held in person auditions for 60 to 75 people. And I ran auditions. Usually the director will have an idea of like, okay, I want them to prepare a monologue, I want them to prepare a song. You'll coordinate with the musical director as well, since this is a musical. Sort of what they want the actors to present to you. And then sometimes it's a stage manager. Usually it's someone at the theater will coordinate sort of time slots or sort of the logistics of getting everything. But once you're there, the stage manager will sort of organize the people, get everybody in, get everybody out. So you have usually first round of auditions. Then you'll have callbacks which you'll narrow it down. And then sometimes during callbacks you'll have chemistry reads of people reading with each other. Similar in film, except it's all you have to gather everyone together in person. [00:52:36] Speaker C: Are those auditions taking place at the theater? [00:52:40] Speaker A: Sometimes? Usually. Usually, yes. [00:52:43] Speaker B: And then just kind of an overview question. How much? I mean, this obviously depends. If you're doing Waiting for Godot, you're not working with Samuel Beckett, but like, are you. How much are you. Is the director working with the playwright or bouncing ideas off of them? If it's, say it's a playwright. I mean, there's a different. If the playwright's like in residency at the theater or if the playwright is a new playwright, you know how much? Because I know in film a writer gets their script sold and they're off the project pretty much like, it's very unique, high level situations in which the writer will have a say in things. So how does it look in theater? Is it different? [00:53:25] Speaker A: It's similar. Once you sell your script to one of these, I want to say it's a publishing house. That's probably not the right term. Like MTI or Samuel French. [00:53:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:35] Speaker A: You're not really attached to the project at all. And anyone can buy your script to use. And you're usually not a part of it. Sometimes people will reach out and be like, oh, I know that Arthur Kopit. I know that he lives near me. I'll reach out and see if he wants to come be a part of it. Typically not. That's different though, than if you're workshopping a new production. So the play that I did at Casa 0101 before Hunchback was a woman named Gloria. That was a new play that was commissioned about Gloria Molitna, who was a politician in Boyle Heights, and the playwright Josefina Lopez, renowned in Chicano literature. She was very much a part of that. She wrote the script. They did three staged readings, and every time she took feedback from the audience, she was actively writing the script as they were putting it. And throughout. She was there at our first read through. She was there at a couple of rehearsals. She was there at our designer read through. But it's up to the theater and sort of up to the playwright how much they want each other to be involved. Sometimes the director will be like, I don't want you in the rehearsal room. Other times the director will be like, I want you at every rehearsal so you can give me feedback so you can work on your play. When I was developing a one act at Occidental College through this amazing program that they have called the New Play Festival, I was in the room every time because it was an educational opportunity for me to learn how to working on the script. That's not necessarily true in the professional world. [00:55:03] Speaker B: And you're constantly rewriting as the playwright through that, you know, because plays are really. I mean, I've had a lot of play professors who are. Who wrote a play 20 years ago and they're still editing. Like, it's, it's. It's. Plays are definitely like a living, breathing thing until you sell it somewhere, and then that script is locked, and then the actors really have to stick to it, you know? [00:55:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And part of that too is if actors are memorizing, you can't be giving them line changes. Like, they need a locked script to memorize one before you get into the rehearsal process. So that's also a consideration. [00:55:37] Speaker C: So casting, you got callbacks. You're finalizing that final. And what is the timeline here? What is the timeline? Is there always a date set of like, okay, first show is three months from now, it's October 12th. Or do you have a date? [00:55:53] Speaker A: Yeah. So typically theaters will announce their season. It's called announcing the season, which is like in the 2025, 2024 season. These are the plays that we're putting up, and these are the dates. So the whole year, they have locked down what shows they're doing and what dates. And that's partially because they have to get the rights to do that. And the publishing companies need those dates in order to give the rights. But at any point in there, they could announce that we're doing a show and not have the director picked yet. Typically, it's about a four week rehearsal process. In the professional sphere, it can be anywhere to six weeks. And then your run is when you're actually doing the show. So I'll separate it into rehearsal and then the actual show itself because roles change between that. So. Yes, but typically during auditions, you'll tell the actors, okay, these are the rehearsal dates. Let us know any conflicts you have. That's very important in theater, especially from a stage manager. You need to know the conflicts because you need everyone depending on the show. But typically you'll need everyone who's in the play at every rehearsal. Or you'll build a schedule around when people have conflicts and things like that. [00:56:57] Speaker C: That is tough, I'm sure, to get how many people is that on average to kind of have to understand scheduling and get everyone there on the same. [00:57:05] Speaker A: It depends on the play. Some plays are like four people, some plays are upwards of 20 people. Hunchback of Notre Dame was 23 folks, 23 actors. But we had separated that into like the leads, the choir, the ensemble, and then like a core group of dancers because it's a musical. So we had like five dancers that we called sometimes by themselves. The choir would have their own rehearsals that we called themselves to the ensemble and then the leads. Because it's really a couple of leads talking with each other the whole show. So we would sort of scaffold those that way. And that's all just scheduling, which is something the stage manager does, similar to a first lady. Okay, I'm going to move on to rehearsal process. So typically the director will be like, okay, I want to do scene one this day, scene two that day, and we're going to work on these things sometimes. Usually you'll have a read through. Similar in film. You'll have everyone get together, typically in person, to do a read through of the show. And everyone reads their lines. And sometimes a lot of scripts will have just like ensemble number one says this one, or like ensemble number two. And so at that point the director will assign lines and be like, okay, this actor is going to say this line and this one and this one. [00:58:08] Speaker B: And oftentimes the director is like auditioning people for those lines. Lines even. [00:58:12] Speaker A: It's true. Yeah. And sometimes they'll change it to halfway through the rehearsal process and be like, I actually want this one. I admire directors because it's a lot of. I think going into it, I assume directing and theater was a lot of creativity, which it is. But it's also a lot of logistics of like, this person exits stage life right But I need them to enter stage left. How do I get them over there? How do I get someone to enter here but then show up over there? How do I get the scene change to happen? And so working in theater, it's a lot more logistics that I didn't realize that the director is thinking about. So that was cool to see. Maybe people know this news to me, but. Yeah. So the director is really sort of deciding and telling everyone how to complete the vision. At the same time, they're having production meetings, talking with the technical director, how to do special effects, how to do these things. I want fog over here. I want these lights to sort of look like this. A lot of times it depends on the director, but the designer will be like, I have this pitch for an idea for Hunchback of Notre Dame. There was this idea that Esmeralda would come out. It's based off the Disney film. There's Esmeralda. She's a gypsy. She'll come out and sort of do this number on this, like, raised platform through these curtains. And the choreographer came in day one, and she was like, okay, I want curtains here, curtains there. I brought the curtains. And the director was like, what? Like, we didn't talk about this. Like. Like, I don't. I don't know if we're gonna have curtains. Like, yeah, I don't know. [00:59:31] Speaker B: Can't just bring curtains. Like, what? [00:59:32] Speaker A: Yeah, but. So we ended up having curtains, but we ended up striking the platform. So she had built these. This choreography on this platform. But we saw the platform. It was built, and it was like 3 inches, 4 inches off the ground. And they were like, no one's gonna be able to tell that. Like, this isn't giving the effect that we want. We can't hide it anywhere. Like, logistically, it's really difficult. [00:59:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:54] Speaker A: So we cut it. And that's something that you discovered during the rehearsal process. There's a lot of, like, ebb and flow of, like, okay, what works, what doesn't work? And we're going to try it during tech and see if it works. And if it doesn't, we'll figure something else out. [01:00:07] Speaker B: And based off of what the lighting people can do, like, there are so many elements to. And costume changes. Like, there are so many things that you have to worry about. And oftentimes, logistically, in your position, you're in charge of that. You're the stage manager. You're problem solving. [01:00:22] Speaker A: Exactly. [01:00:23] Speaker C: Scheduling wise. And this is for both you. Like, so are you. Are there days of rehearsals where, I mean, they're only, I assume it's not every day of the week. And then on some days when cast isn't there, crew is like building a platform, like you said. Like, is that on top of the stage? Is that. You know what I mean? Like, what are we. [01:00:45] Speaker A: Yeah, it's all of that. It's all in the logistics. It depends if you're a union house or not. So if you are in, if you have union actors, if they are actors, Equity, which is like the theater, sag, aftra, there are rules about, like, how often you can call an equity actor and how many hours they can work in a week. And also the specific type. Exactly. So it's all about protecting actors. So for example, for equity actors, because we were under a specific type of small theater union contract with the union, our actors could only work 20 hours a week. The union actors, non union, is a different story. But I think when I approach this, I'm always trying to treat everyone the same as the union actors. Union actors aren't put on a pedestal as they sometimes are. They aren't special. They don't get special considerations. Everyone gets the same things. And that's why there are these laws in place of the union. Different stage managers, different directors are different. But that's how I try to approach it. It's like everyone level the playing field. No one should be working more than 20 hours a week. So they couldn't work more than 20 hours a week and they had to have two days off a week. Or else we get into overtime, which is fine. But then it gets into a thing of can the theater afford overtime? Can they afford to pay all these people over time? All these things. And so that, similar to a first ad, is like back to scheduling. When we were getting into tech, we were running into like, we need the actors for this time, but it's going to be four hours of overtime. And that's an email conversation that I have with artistic director. Like, hey, can we afford four hours or do we have to shift things? Like what happens. You have to think about meals. If. If actors are held over five hours, you have to give them a meal. [01:02:20] Speaker B: So what you're saying about meals and. And can we afford to go overtime? That's. It's a very, like, film sort of thing, right, Luke? Like, it's a very. It sounds like you're on a film set at this point. [01:02:30] Speaker C: So when the studio. Yeah, you know. [01:02:32] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Do they have money? I think it's hard with theater. I guess it's the same with Studios and, like, making a movie. Like, you never know if you're gonna make your budget back or whatever it is. So it's. It's hard. Do you ever experience pushback from the theater in terms of, like, well, we don't know how many tickets we're gonna sell, like, how much, you know, our donors are gonna show up this year. I mean, it's so hard, right? [01:02:56] Speaker A: It depends on the theater. But, yeah, typically it's sort of like the theater banks on being able to sell every ticket, and it's the publicist's job to make sure that those seats get filled. Like, it's not typically on production. Sort of. It's a little bit above production pay grade of like, the theater is going to figure out how they can make themselves sustainable and how they can continue to put on these works. For a lot of community theaters, a lot of their funding comes from grants. They often have educational arms where they're getting a lot of funding, and then they can sort of. [01:03:24] Speaker B: They're a school as well or something. [01:03:26] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And so they have sort of their business model that works for them. And then the director and producers work closely to sort of figure out, okay, here's the budget. And then, for example, like, Hunchback was going way over budget on costumes, and the costume designer was like, I can't clothe 22 people with $2,000 or whatever. [01:03:44] Speaker B: It was with hunches. They can't all be hunched. Exactly. [01:03:47] Speaker A: Right. Like, we can't do that. So that was a conversation they had, and they got the budget raised and that worked. And it's up to whoever's in charge of finances to make that happen or say no and sort of be like, you have to figure it out. And in theater, we're great at figuring stuff out. We're great at reusing stuff. [01:04:02] Speaker C: Absolutely. [01:04:02] Speaker B: It's. It's about restriction. Right. It's about, like, what you can do within the guidelines of limited budget, you know, limited crew members. Like, it's all about being as creative as possible, you know, with those restrictions. We talk a lot about that. [01:04:18] Speaker A: And what's cool about Casa0101. I don't know how much this factors into the. Into the funding model, but they are also an art gallery space, and so they show art in the lobby, and people can buy the art. And I'm sure the theater takes some percentage of that. [01:04:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's a space. Right. So I'm sure they get some sort of percentage from that. That's super interesting. Is the art mostly like local LA. [01:04:38] Speaker A: Artists, it's curated and it's sometimes curated for the show. Sometimes it's a separate art show that has nothing to do with the show that's going up. So it just depends on sort of like what is going on in the world at that time and what the artistic director wants to showcase with that space. [01:04:54] Speaker C: So four weeks of rehearsal, rehearsing, rehearsing, rehearsing. The show's just around the corner. What does that start to look like? Do people start getting stressed? Is it excitement? Is it. Everyone is just so ready for this thing to start already. It's like, oh my gosh, four weeks rehearsal. I know these lines so well now. [01:05:15] Speaker A: Right. You hope that your actors know the lines. Typically you'll sort of set an off book date of like, everyone has to know their lines by this date, which is typically a week or two before tech. And tech is sort of when all the technical elements come together. We have typically two long days of tech where we do what's called a cue to cue, which is in the technical element. The stage manager will call these cues. Lights go, sound of a trumpet go here. And so during tech, we will tell the actors, okay, we're going to start from this line and then we'll play the sound and all the designers are there and they'll say, okay, that works, let's move on to the next one. Or they'll be like, actually, we need more fog here. Or actually, this didn't work here. And so you'll spend some time troubleshooting that moment. And it's typically just a long day for everyone because you go through the. [01:06:04] Speaker B: Show, the actors are just standing there while the lighting people are yelling at each other above the, you know, the theater, like it's, it's definitely. Everybody's either doing a ton or doing nothing, you know, yeah, yeah, hurry up and wait. [01:06:18] Speaker A: For sure. Yeah, yeah, Very similar. [01:06:20] Speaker B: Okay, so you're in tech week. What's going on? You know, what are you working towards? [01:06:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I'll talk a little bit about stage manager because I always feel like tech is for all the technical elements. Yes. But it's also for the stage manager because the stage manager is the one who calls the show. So the stage manager, what that means is basically like, stage manager gives final word. Okay, we're starting the show. Stage manager gives final word. Okay, this is when this queue happens. Stage manager gives final word. Okay, we need to stop the show. Stage manager is sort of the one in charge. Once the show goes up on its feet in the rehearsal Process. The director is the one in charge during the show's run. The stage manager is the one in charge. And so tech is sort of this handoffing of this handoff of responsibility. And it's the stage manager's job to know everything they need to know, to ask all the questions they need to ask, to figure out what they need to know during tech. And they learn the show as well, because they're the ones calling the show, which is, like I said, you call this queue here. You call this queue here. In hunchback, there were 300 cues that I learned and called during the show. [01:07:29] Speaker B: So you have basically an extended version of the script where you've made your markings of lighting cue here, he enters here, he's on a quick change. So this person stalls over here, whatever it is. [01:07:41] Speaker A: Yes. It's also important to note that it's not just me. So, yes, I'm the stage manager, but I had two assistant stage managers and a wardrobe supervisor who were there backstage. So typically, the stage manager is in the booth, which is behind the audience looking at the show. They're not backstage. And typically, it's not very easy for the stage manager to get backstage. So we have what's called, I guess Clear Comm is the brand name. But we have Clear Comms, which are kind of like walkie talkies. They're like a wired headset. You've probably seen stage managers wear them. And that's how they communicate with folks backstage. And it depends on the stage manager, whatever they want to do and however they want things to be. We were using the main entrance of the theater as an entrance for our actors. So for safety purposes, it was very important that I station an assistant stage manager there. Because audience can leave to go to the bathroom if they need to. If there's an emergency, they need to exit that way. And we had, like, set pieces coming in that way and, like, actors flying in and running in and all of these things. So there needed to be, for safety reasons, I needed to have access to someone who was there who can control that. And if there were late seating, for example, after 15 minutes into the show, for safety reasons, we couldn't allow anyone to enter. So if you were 15 minutes late, you had to wait till intermission to enter for safety reasons. And these are just sort of technical considerations that I decided that were up to me as the stage manager to say, hey, we can do this. And that's pretty standard for stage managers sort of make those calls. [01:09:08] Speaker C: But as a stage manager, are you there throughout Rehearsals. Like, when do you come into the project? And are you shadowing the director constantly, or is there just this big kind of that handoff during Tech week where you both sit down and the director hands you the keys kind of thing, and he's like, all right, I'm gonna go home now. What does that look like? [01:09:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Typically, you hire the stage manager before auditions because the stage manager essentially is overseeing actors. So it's the stage manager's job to make sure all the actors are where they're supposed to be and that they know what's happening. So the stage manager is handling all communication with the actors and essentially the person handling all communication between departments. Similar to. [01:09:56] Speaker B: They're kind of like a line producer in a way, on, like, a bigger set. Yeah, yeah. [01:10:00] Speaker A: And sort of fielding all questions. So anytime cast has a question, they ask me, and I figure out who I need to direct that question. [01:10:07] Speaker C: You're there. You're. You're there. [01:10:09] Speaker A: I'm physically there at everywhere. Okay, yeah. Supposed to be. So for Hunchback, I took two weeks off. Well, and this is actually a funny story, because I had just finished assistant stage managing. Well, yeah, assistant stage managing a different production that. We were in show mode during Hunchback rehearsals. And so I was doing two shows at the same time that were overlapping. I was having Hunchback rehearsals during the week, and I was running a show on the weekend at the same theater. And when I was pitched to stage manage Hunchback, I was like, I don't have time. I can't do it. And the director asked me again. He was like, hey, are you sure you can't do it? And I was like, I could maybe do it, but here is everything that I need on these specific dates. I need to be left early so I can have dinner. I can't make these specific dates because I'm going to Montreal for a week. I can't do these dates. And I essentially pitched something that I thought that they weren't going to allow. I was sort of like, here's everything I need, and it's actually really big ask. So I probably can't do this project, so you can't meet my expectations. But they ended up meeting everything that I asked for. [01:11:17] Speaker B: They were like, yeah, they wanted you so badly. [01:11:19] Speaker A: They were like, they did, they did. They wanted me really bad. And so at that point, it was like, okay. They met everything that I asked. I took a long couple days to sort of think about it and be like, it's going to be a lot of work. I know it's going to be a lot of stress on me. Can I do this? And I ended up saying yes. But that was after careful consideration and careful, like, thinking about my boundaries and my process and my stress levels and all of these things. And I told him I was like, I need two assistants who were there every single rehearsal so that I can do this. And that was. And that was something that they gave me. I had two assistants. I was able to delegate a lot, which was great. I took a lot of load off myself. And I, at that point, was at a point where I felt like I could sort of put those boundaries up and take care of myself, which is not something that a lot of people get in these industries, especially when you're. [01:12:17] Speaker B: Working in community theaters and local productions and things like that. Or you can compare it to, like, an indie set. Like, there's not a lot of leeway with taking time off or having support staff or things like that. [01:12:29] Speaker A: Definitely. [01:12:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:30] Speaker A: So. And that's one of the reasons I said yes. And it was. I'm glad I did. I had a great time. I got to meet a lot of great people. Yeah, the actors were amazing. But, yeah, to go back that you. [01:12:42] Speaker B: Were able to carve those barriers for yourself, you know, like, and carve out the. I'm sure you've been in situations where you have been able to do that and you've learned from that. So I think it's really important to, like, realize, okay, this was too much. I will never be doing that much again in that way. Let me. Was it easy for you to ask for that sort of thing? I mean, like, what was that. What was that thought process, like, to, like, be like, I need this? [01:13:12] Speaker A: Yeah, part of it was. Part of it was saying, I don't want to do two shows at the same time, and then being like, okay, if I was doing two shows at the same time, what do I need and how do I need to take care of myself? And how can I ask for that? If I knew that I had a rehearsal and a show back to back, I was like, I need that one hour. I knew that I wanted 30 minutes of eating food, and I was, okay, but it's going to take me 15 minutes to actually leave. It's going to take me 15 minutes to get to wherever I want to eat. So I might as well just ask for the full hour so that I have the actual downtime that I need, because if I give myself 30 minutes, I'm going to spend 15 minutes of that doing other things. Things. [01:13:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:47] Speaker A: And I'm only gonna have 15 minutes of downtime, so. [01:13:49] Speaker B: True. [01:13:50] Speaker A: So it was like, what do I need to take care of my body and myself in order to make this possible? And it's hard to know. I asked for a lot of things at the outset. They gave it to me. But as I was doing it, I ended up sort of lessening my day job. I was like, I can't be working 40 hours a week. Going to work at night for 20 hours and then also on the weekends. [01:14:11] Speaker B: Yeah, you do have a full time job. [01:14:13] Speaker A: I have a full time job. [01:14:14] Speaker C: I was not even thinking about that. [01:14:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:17] Speaker B: It's so crazy. And as we begin to wrap up, let's talk about how tech week went, how the performances went. And then I have kind of a fun question to close us out. But, yeah, so you're in tech week. How did that go? And how did it, you know, how did it end up? [01:14:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Tech week, like I said, is about me learning my part. And the director isn't doing too much. They're sort of answering final questions, but they are there supervised as a supervisor role. We have one week of dress rehearsals. At some point, theaters might have previews, which are typically free or reduced rate before opening for just people who want a discount ticket or they know that the show's not totally ready yet, but who want to be an audience. And that's an important space for the. For the actors to learn what it's like to perform with an audience. They learn where audiences like to laugh. They learn that audience clap for really long at this moment. All of these things that go into the pacing of the show, they learn during previews. And then we have a couple more rehearsals to take what we learned from previews and implement them. And then it's opening night. And typically there's like a big party. Everyone's there. You invite special guests. Sometimes there's a VIP opening. You invite typically press a lot of things. Typically, opening night is sold out. Theaters have different rituals that they do on opening night. We had a cast party, and the director usually attends opening night. And then afterwards they sort of come with any last notes, sometimes before opening night, sometimes on opening night to me. And I either give them to the actors or I implement them myself. And then the show is mine. So it's my job after that when the show runs, to make sure that the show is running correctly and safely and according to the director's vision. So sometimes actors will change something one night, and it's my job to catch that. And make sure they don't do it again, or to confer with the director and be like, hey, they did this new thing. What do you think? And the director will be like, yeah, that's fine. Or no, like, it needs to be this very specific thing. I have eyes on the entire show, and so I'm watching for things like missed marks or missed things. And I just very kindly remind folks. Sometimes they forget sometimes. But at this point, typically you've rehearsed very well that actors know what they're doing, crew knows what they're doing. But then, like, if a costume piece rips, it's my job to contact concert designer or roadhub supervisor. It needs to be fixed. If a set piece breaks, if a prop breaks, it's my job to coordinate and make sure that that gets fixed. So anything that happens during the show, if there's any injuries, I need to document that and send that to the theater so they can keep a record in case anything happens. There's a lot of record keeping and a lot of sort of problem solving with different departments because I'm the only one who has eyes on everything, and I'm the only one who knows when. [01:17:06] Speaker C: It comes to performances. It's really interesting you mentioned, like, if an actor does something different or something that was not rehearsed, that's. You kind of have to remind them, hey, let's get back to where you were, what you were doing, you know, in rehearsal. Obviously, on set. Being a director, I love creating a space, or at least trying to, where an actor can have that permission to try something. Obviously, I guess that is what rehearsals are for. But I also think that, like, you know, as a director, you. You got to be putting on the story hat and just being a champion of the story. And as long as everything is pushing the story forward in its best possible direction, amazing. So are you finding yourself wearing the story hat, or is it more like, I'm just making sure this looks exactly as it did when it was approved kind of thing. [01:18:11] Speaker A: I'm approaching it more from a technical lens of a lot of times. Like, I typically won't do anything that has to do with, like, a line reading, for example. But if someone enters from the wrong entrance, that is something that I need to correct because that could impact the blocking, which impacts safety. Oftentimes, it typically all comes down to safety. Sometimes actors will. So part of the stipulations when you license a script is that it's performed word perfect, and so you could get into legal trouble if you're adding Lines or if there's, like. If people are mispronouncing something. [01:18:49] Speaker B: Yeah. You're licensing the script. You're not buying the script. And there's. There's a big difference with that. And I know that's a huge thing. Like, it's. You can get in. I mean, the. The guild can go after you if you are changing a line. So it is. Your. You're. You're acting in the best safety physically and, like, you know, in terms of the playhouse and making sure that everything's reputable and correct. [01:19:16] Speaker A: Definitely. But to your point, I think the directors oftentimes, in rehearsal, allow that space for play and allow actors to sort of discover what they're doing and work with the director. But then once you get to tech and dress, things are pretty locked and things are going to. And another thing, too, is you want every audience to have the same experience. You need every show to be the same so that every audience experiences the same thing and they can go and talk about it. A lot of times you'll have critics. Theater critics come to different shows, and if they get a different performance than someone else, then they're going to write a different review, and then it sort of just cascades from there. So it's. So. Yes. Protecting the integrity of the story. Yes. But I think that I approach things within a stage managerial role of a very technical. With all of these things in mind of. Okay, you said this line a little weird. That's fine. You can do it however you want. But. Oh, you forgot this prop. And what happened? Like, I need to know all of these things. [01:20:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So then finally, with this production, like, how did you. You know, what did you. Throughout the performance process, like, how did that go? And do you consider it a success? And. And where do you go from here? [01:20:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it was a great success. I think that I was really proud and. What's the word? I'll say. Excited. I was just really proud to hear, after, on closing, so many actors coming up to me and saying praise, but also just thank you for the job that I did and how I was able to make their job easier and how they felt like I was a listening ear and how they really appreciated the presence that I brought on set and the community that I was able to cultivate. That was first and foremost why I did this job. And it was great to hear and to know that my efforts were not being wasted and that I was sort of producing and creating this thing that I guess sort of. That this idea in my head was translating to what was actually happening on the set, on the stage. And I think, yes, I talk about all these technical elements and all of these things that I have to do, but at the end of the day, I'm focused on everyone's safety and mental health and that they are able to have a good time and doing what they love, theater and film. You only do it because you love it. It's a hard business, and you're in it because you want to be. And I want to make sure that everyone has a good time and that they are doing things. And when. When issues arose, I wanted to handle them with tact and grace and support everyone through any transition. We had several incidents happen on set and different things happen. And I followed protocol and supported folks as needed and was grateful to know that that helped, that I was a supporting ear and that I could continue the show. A lot of times you hear in theater the show must go on, which is true, but I would say the show must go on without expense of people or safety. We made the decision one of the days to stop the show and restart because of a safety issue. And that is not something that we take lightly. That's not something that happens typically. But there was a very serious safety issue that we needed to address, and so we did that. And that's part of the job, and. [01:22:40] Speaker B: That'S what happens in theater, and it's live, and that's the process. I think that's why it's. That's also the thing that makes theater so special and why I love it so much is because there's nothing like being on stage and performing in front of a different audience each night, and they see it a different way. And you get to discover things in the moment about how you feel while you say text. And it's really amazing. And it's also amazing from the other end to be in the audience and see something that can change your life. And the actors are pretending like it's the first time they're ever experiencing these things. It's so, so powerful. So, listen, Joaquin, it's been so great having you on, really. And I learned so many things, even though I consider myself to know a little bit about theater. But you just, obviously, you live and breathe this stuff and you are bringing those things onto film sets, which are so, so important, because theater has been around a lot longer than film. So we always have stuff to learn from that. That part of the industry. So really, thank you for coming on. We really, really appreciate it. [01:23:50] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you both for having me always around to chat. If anyone's listening you can reach out to me. [01:23:56] Speaker B: I don't. [01:23:57] Speaker A: I'm not going to give my information but you can contact the podcast and let me know if you're interested. I'd love to get coffee or chat or. Perfect. Be a part of projects with you all as well. So let me. [01:24:06] Speaker B: Yeah. And we hope to see you at the next festival. [01:24:09] Speaker A: Yes I will be there. I'm excited. Let me know if I would love to volunteer or support or. Yeah, let me know what's happening. [01:24:15] Speaker C: Absolutely. [01:24:16] Speaker B: Thanks so much. [01:24:17] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Yes, you too. [01:24:26] Speaker C: Did you learn something? I'm like your mom. Did you learn something in this episode? I hope so. Or not. That's okay. Thanks for hanging. Make sure you follow us at the 5050 Fest on Instagram and I think we have a TikTok. I don't know. Go check it out. Okay. By.